₦airaland Forum

striktlymi: I know about the above! I guess in your haste, you didn't notice that I excluded the phrase "in my opinion"...anyways, I was just respomding to your previous post.

anyway, wake up from the idea that creation and evolution can be merged

striktlymi: God is not supposed to be studied as part of the sciences. The only link God would have with Science is when we study about the various theories and hypothesis of life and its origin. Theories and hypothesis need not be backed by proofs.

The only thing i have problem with is your last post.

God is always mentioned when the hypothesis about the origin of life is taught in all REGULATED science textbook. In case you dont know the theory of BIBLICAL creation is called SPECIAL CREATION THEORY in science. The only problem is that MOST scientists do not accept it as true, this is why it is not popular. So do some more research. Creation is already taught.

What i contend is merging creation and evolution together. Dont get it twisted. That will make us study God scientifically so drop that opinion.

Ubenedictus: my dear, it is a public forum and i'm free to air my opinion, i dont need to be "talked to" before i comment.
Peace

sorry

An hypothesis becomes credible if it can stand the test of time. This is how an ancient document provided clues that led to the formulation of the Big B.ang theory, which is mostly accepted by scientists today.

Genesis

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The text literally means “At the beginning of time God (who already existed) created everything out of nothing.”

Science


Today we understand that the Big Bang was the beginning of matter, energy, space and even time itself, all expanding from a single point in a very precise manner.

The Big Bang theory was resisted for decades in part because of its resemblance to Genesis 1 and its metaphysical implications.

Genesis

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Science

This verse establishes the physical vantage point that is used from here forward.

4 billion years ago, following the “Hadean” period, the earth was a hostile, stormy, turbulent, water-covered ball.

The Hebrew word for “hovering” is also used elsewhere in Genesis to describe an eagle protecting her young in the nest.

Science tells us that the earliest life forms began in the ocean ~3.5 billion years ago and I believe this verse hints at this.

Genesis

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness.

5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.

Science

The atmosphere changes from dark to opaque. Light can now shine through earth’s thick clouds. Now there is day and night on the surface of the earth.

The phrase “There was evening and there was morning” is an ancient Jewish expression of completion.

Genesis

6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.”

7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so.

8 God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day.

Science

The water cycle begins. Clouds condense and form the ocean. Water evaporates from the ocean and forms clouds.

Genesis

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.

10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

Science

The continents (“Pangea”) rise above the surface of the ocean, forming land and sea.

Genesis

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.

12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

13 And there was evening, and there was morning-the third day.

Science

Plants appear before animals. Notice that the wording in the Bible says the land produced vegetation. It does not rule out an evolutionary process.

Genesis

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights-the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth,

18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fourth day.

Science

Up to this point the atmosphere has been thick and opaque. It is not possible to see the sun and moon as distinct objects in the sky. The atmosphere clears. Now sun and moon are visible.

When it says “God made two great lights, the Hebrew word for “made” is a different word than “create.” Create means from scratch, made means “made evident.”

The moon and stars were already casting their light on day 1 (see verse 3), but were not visible as distinct objects until day 4. Notice that 24 hour days are not even mentioned before day 4.

Genesis

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.”

21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”

23 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fifth day.

Science

Day 5 spans from 500 million years ago (after the Cambrian explosion) to 50 million years ago. The earth is dominated by birds and fish. Insects and dinosaurs are also present on the earth during this time but are not mentioned in Genesis 1.

Genesis

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.

25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Science

Day 6 is the busiest day (50 million years ago to less than 100,000 years ago). The earth is dominated by large mammals. Jewish people would have thought in terms of livestock.

Genesis

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Science

Man's evolution (Sapiens) is most recent. 200 thousand years ago.

Genesis

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning-the sixth day.

NB
The text says all was very good. It doesn’t say it was paradise or perfection.

Genesis

Chapter 2 verse 1: Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.

3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

NB
God ceases from his creative work on the 7th day.

There is no statement “And there was evening and there was morning, a 7th day.”

We are living in the 7th day now.



If we had to make obtuse, complex assumptions in order to make this fit, we would have a serious problem. But our assumptions are simple, even elegant. This poetic 3500 year old text matches modern science exactly.

As little as 100 years ago, the prevailing scientific view disagreed with Genesis 1 (the “steady state” theory of the universe was in vogue). Genesis produced a testable hypothesis. Since then, astronomy, geology and biology have shown Genesis was right and the science of the time was wrong.

No other ancient text, scripture or religious tradition has a creation story that even comes close to Genesis in its accuracy. The Jewish scriptures compete admirably in the marketplace of ideas in the 21st century.

How did a bunch of nomads roaming around in the desert in 1500 BC get this sequence of events exactly right? I submit to you it’s because God told his prophets what He did.

Perry Marshall
A Closer look at Genesis

MY OPINION:

Well, because it is archeologically proven that the Jews copied Genesis from the Eblas, I submit to you that the ancient were as wise as we are and so they could formulate a testable hypothesis some 23000 years ago.

But that is not the point here, the point is that, of all the creation accounts and religions we have, only two got it right - the Eblas who created it, and the Jews who were wise enough to adopt it.

But does this prove that any God exist and that Jesus is the savior? No. It doesnt prove that God exist anymore than the existence of Sango prove that his anger causes thunder always.

.

hey guy, that is not how to quote. Quote the person in green then put the link!!

. Go to the islam section!!

sorry. What you wrote above is total insanity then.

It seems you have lost your brain again. Na wah oo!!!

Are you already in a mental institution sha!! because this off and on thing serious oo!

Go to a mental asylum before you get to the streets oo!

Ubenedictus: he somehow seem correct. Evolution is a scientific guess.
Anyway lets leave dat for another day.

Who is talking to you?

^^^nice write up. you made just the right amount of sense. Did you just put your brain back on? what happened before?

striktlymi: I don't think God should be studied as part of the physical sciences but no one says he can't be studied as part of Art and the Humanities.

BLASPHEMY OF THE CENTURY: GOD CAN BE STUDIED!

Do you realize you just blasphemed. Total heresy is what you just wrote.

God(s) dont get studied, they get worshipped, respected, obeyed and feared. These are things we dont do in schools but in religious houses.

You see why God can't get into schools, or why that merger can't be possible? Most of the exponents for evo-crea merger dont even realize this.

My advice? Say 1000 Hail Maths! Perhaps then, your God can forgive you!

striktlymi: Okay! May be I will go through his views at my free time.



If by 'schools' you mean 'public schools' then I am of the opinion that God should not be part of the Curriculum but this does not mean that private schools cannot bring him in.

Public or private doesn't matter. what matters is that God will only be studied as part of causes of nature, never worshipped in science classes. Science only study we dont worship. that is the danger of bringing God into science or merging creation and evolution. God will be studied not worshipped. now do you still want God to be taught in all schools and Lab classes?

striktlymi: May be not 6 days as we know it but creation all the same. Who is Dr. Ross?



Nah, I am not!

Dr. Ross, a physicist is the first to claim 6days does not necessarilly mean 6 week days.

If we begin to teach God in schools. Then God will be open for study not worship. Let me ask you, should we study God? is that what you want with this merger?

striktlymi: There is a need to understand the message sacred scriptures is trying to pass across here. Some of the words used in sacred scriptures holds a deeper meaning than what meets the eyes.

Firstly, we should note that God is not bound by time and we are made to understand that when God decides to reveal some things to man based on our knowledge of time, its still not same as the way we are prone to interpret or understand it. St Peter made us understand this point when he wrote:

2 Peter 3:8
New International Version (NIV)

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.


So when God talks about a day, it need not be exactly as we understand it because to God a day is not just 24 Earth hours. With this knowledge, it is very probable that when God says a day, this might mean a period of time. This is one explanation!

Another probable explanation is that in all it took 6 days but at different times i.e creating something every few million Earthly years...

The point I am trying to make is that the creation story shouldn't be taken at face value, there is more to it. However, the underlying message is that God is the author of life.



Though the above explanation can still apply but I need to know where you got the 6,000 years universe from.



We have had this discussion before and I believe I have provided answers.


# Now you are making me sound like an apologist. I am not!!!

You follow Dr. Ross in denying 6 days creation, your God will not forgive you for that.

Sorry but if you want to merge and form a evo-crea theory, then you are an apologist!!

wiegraf: Che.. And other than our mentally challenged op, who said this?

@ooman, kudos. You've at least managed to become the latest religious prophet, they listen to you blindly.

like you blindly wallow in your ignorance!

chukkynwob: if we "broke off" from them, we should still be able to breed.

evidence?

the zebra can breed with the horse.
the lion can breed with the tiger
wolf can breed with the dog
pigs can breed with a hog
the camel can breed with the llama
the grizzly with the polar bear
a leopard and a lion
a bottlenose dolphin and a false killer whale
a tiger and a lion/tiger mix
cow and buffalo
goat and sheep

the list goes on and on and on. but the questions remain, if we are this similar with apes, why can we not breed with them?

all those you listed can only produce sterile offspring because of incomplete pairing of xmosomes.

engineering human and other apes germ cell is strictly prohibited, this is why it hasn't been done.

striktlymi: Good evening ooman,

What exactly are these conflicting views?

6 days of life creation - 3.8 billion years of life evolution.

6000 years universe - approximately 15 billion years universe.

man created in God's image - man evolved from previous ancestors.

etc.

Alfamann: Hypothesis - Deductive reasoning based on observations. Also known as educated guess.

Ok,

Evolution is based on theories not hypothesis or educated guesses. for some to say the whole of evolution is a guess is really disturbing!

Hey striky, why do you think evolution and creation agree when both hold extremely different view?

For winning this poll, Davidylan will become an atheist before 2019!!

Uyi Iredia: No, I'm telling you. Neither did I claim it's your problem what I think.

Good. Your thought of nontheism is wrong and I reject it.

Stop telling me your own thoughts.

Alfamann: Ohh! Did I hit a raw nerve? Was the question too complicated for your brain?

You gave three different replies to one post I made and contradicted yourself. Now I ask just a simple question so you can clarify your posistion and you resort to insults.

You are exhibiting the characteristics of a good christian: ignore the question and insult the questionner. Stop calling yourself an atheist/non-theist, which by the way you don't know the meaning of.

Oh thou Great Alfamann, can you pls quote the post you are talking about?? Expose me, make it public. Tell the world of ooman's contradictions.

Hypothesis - Deductive reasoning based on observations.

Guess- baseless suppositions.

Do you understand or do you just want to abuse me - you are free to.

[quote author=Area_boy]What a shame Ooman. You have to realize something with being a "free" minded person (aka atheist/agnostics). we are exactly that, free to reason for ourselves and make our own conclusion.

It sadly seems you have been trying so hard to pass your own views on to other by force. As an engineer and an atheist, I've studied the second law of thermodynamics extensively. Sadly, a tramp can use that law to prove to you why you need to give him money. The ambiguity allows a lot of gullible minds to misuse it in anyway that suits them.

You quit being an atheist because others refuse to agree with you on a certain topic? How old are you again? have you heard of agree to disagree?

Sam Harris you like so much disagrees on some issues with Dawkins, so with late Hitchens and the list goes on. We all make conclusions with reasonable evidence and common sense available to us. Not because someone says it is so. Isn't that the whole idea of atheism?

So you run around bashing everyone that doesn't agree with you and even denounce atheism to assure yourself that you are in the right? Even the most hated atheist on this website Logicboy (lol) gets along with MrAnnoy IRL although they disagree on plenty fundamental issues.

Stop being a child and man up to reality mate.


My two cents[/quote]You failed to reason that its not about what I think, its about your pals saying 2nd law is irrelevant to life and that entropy means order.

nothing can make me leave that untreated, especially when it was said to me.

[quote author=Area_boy]It sadly seems you have been trying so hard to pass your own views on to other by force. As an engineer and an atheist, I've studied the second law of thermodynamics extensively. Sadly, a tramp can use that law to prove to you why you need to give him money.[/quote]Even people considered intelligent are still disputing over the 2nd law and where and how it applies and you think a "tramp" perfectly understands it to defraud people??

you are a shame to the engineering community. good thing you didn't use your real name, your certificate would have been seized.

anyway, I never expected much from an area boy!! nothing intelligent or pacifying can come from a tout.

Logicboy03: Sorry to add to the nonsense Oomsn added here, Reyginius.



As for Oomsn, are so butthurt by my debunkery of your pseudoscience that you couldn't see the obvious sarcasm in my comment to ihedinobi? It was ihedinobi that made the claim that evolution is a guess.



I am looking at this from a positive side; the unanimous rebuking of Ooman's foolishness by atheists show that we are ready to be honest and factual, even if it is against one of our own.

Ooman, please repent. Only the spag monster can save you with his noodle appendages

lol

lets keep this thread about the quotes. If you have something against me, bring it up, make a thread, make it public, expose my pseudo science as you claim and lastly, quote me. That goes to all your pals too.

if not, stop being childish. I dont care about the atheist congress you have here, I care about science and if you call scientific laws pseudoscience, I will always spank you.

striktlymi: What we keep getting wrong is expecting God to work with our time-table. God is a sovereign and he dose things when he wants to...I am human and I can choose to keep an answer to a puzzle to myself without fear or favour...God can do the same!


#Thread has hit the homepage, might be going off soon.

If the diseases that kill man is not part of the exigences in God's time table, what is?? Just what is??

Emusan: Is Jonah in fish not Noah.
Extra-waiting? Which power do I have on my own?
Is like you didn't know what I'm talking about..... A child who is almost 2years old can only craw but she has never walked that day the spirit of God moved in me and I went straight to the child I held her by hand and make her to walk (everybody was saying thank God also her mother she was very happy but I told them is God not me because I can't explain how it happened) since that day she has started walking till now. So tell me; is it my power or God? because I don't have such power.

Sorry about the Jonah-Noah in fish misnomer.

Actually, I believe your story. It is known that females develop and walk sooner than males. she hasn't walked before but it is one day that she will start walking and you happen to be there that particular day and "trained" her and it stuck ever since. This is something that mothers and fathers over the world do, it happens everywhere, to say its God's doing is ignorance.

Once again, we all do some extraordinary things, its not God's doing, its our doing.

Making a baby walk and claiming its God's doing is risible. Try curing a baby of HIV/AIDS without drug and I will believe its God's doing. NB: DONT, YOU WILL KILL THE BABY!!

striktlymi: The pope only affirmed my position...creation and evolution goes together.

The secret of life is right under our very nose...science will discover it only when God believes we are ready to know how he did it. Like always, God always leads us gently to the truth.

If that is the case, if it is God that directs discovery of science, one would expect science to quickly find answer to diseases like AIDS and other genetic disorder.

Is God busy now? why hasn't he led us to curing cancer?

striktlymi: Guy oya vamoose! I will oblige your line of thought on another thread!



#Evolution in part is correct.

hmmm I pity you ooo!

when science finally find the secret of life, then you will swallowed your tongue. But for now, you still get mouth.

Anyway sha, the pope said that and you can't change it.

Dont forget that Pope JP2 also said evolution was right. That God made all things and "allow" them to evolve.