^^^
What difference does it make, in the long run you or I are quite capable of making accurate predictions.
In fact, anyone is.

It's a question of numbers.
The more predictions made, more likely one will be accurate.
It's very simple!

^^^
Well, to start with, I don't believe that curses have any effect whatsoever.

The effect of prayer?
It's an expression of solidarity with a sufferer and their family.

The spiritual realm?
Mediums and other charlatans love to talk about the spiritual realm and how your proffered cash influences their connection to it.

^^
True.
Now, about the Book of Daniel, which formed the bulk of the OP?
What I've found suggests it shouldn't be considered a book of prophecy at all, but rather was written at the times of the Maccabean era to uplift the Jews' morale.

OLAADEGBU:

Merely saying this does not show how you logically disproved this it just shows your emotional outburst.

Thus writes the master of argument by comix?
Come, come, you can do better than that.

Scientists who are creationists would tell you that the blue colour in the blue eyes is as a result of the way light scatters off of the thin layer of brown-coloured melanin.

Source, please. I'd like to read the article, especially considering the lack of 'brown' eye colour chromosones in those us who don't have brown eyes.

Ptolomeus:

One question ,

Joshua did not predict this too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnwL6AobhsM

And?

^^^
I see your point and applaud your courage and determination.
At the same time, I think that to offer prayers is a way to show solidarity for this person's situation.

Of course he must relocate. Today, if possible!

http://vyoma108..com/2008/12/kindoki-exorcism-and-abuse-in-africa.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16955554

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_exor5.htm

Is it true this sort of abuse goes on in Nigeria in the name of Christ?

^^^^
For example:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html

, It is highly unlikely that Josephus, a believing Jew working under Romans, would have written, "He was the Messiah." This would make him suspect of treason, but nowhere else is there an indication that he was a Christian. Indeed, in Wars of the Jews, Josephus declares that Vespasian fulfilled the messianic oracles. Furthermore, Origen, writing about a century before Eusebius, says twice that Josephus "did not believe in Jesus as the Christ."

The author concluded that all in all and despite the later christian meddling with the text, Josephus accepted Jesus as a historical figure.
It's interesting to note that if it weren't for the later attempts to skew Josephus' writing, there'd be little question on the subject of Jesus' existence.

No worries.
I'm here to learn and the search is turning up a lot interesting things.

Enigma, I'm hunting out info on the TF as you suggested.
Here's an interesting analysis I found on another forum:

The famous Testamonium Flavianum (the T.F.) in the Antiquities of the Jews is considered probably the best evidence for Jesus, yet it has some serious problems :
* the T.F. as it stands uses clearly Christian phrases and names Christ as Messiah, it could not possibly have been written by the devout Jew Josephus (who remained a Jew and refused to call anyone "messiah" in his book which was partly about how false messiahs kept leading Israel astray.),
* The T.F. was not mentioned by any of the early Church fathers who reviewed Josephus.
* Origen even says Josephus does NOT call Jesus the Messiah, showing the passage was not present c.200CE.
* The T.F. first showed up in manuscripts of Eusebius, and was still absent from some manuscripts as late as 8th century.
* The other tiny passage in Josephus refers to Jesus, son of Damneus. The phrase "so-called Christ" may have been a later addition by a Christian who also mis-understood which Jesus was refered to.

FXKing2012:

What the heck do u mean by this, pls dont even attempt to rewrite the Bible. . .ok I guess Daniel did not feature in that your Bible and thatz why its a myth to you.

I suggest you read what I'd posted.
There are many reasons to believe the Book of Daniel was written in the second century BC, due to the numerous historical errors it contains.
And?
I have the feeling you're still taking in the fact that Martin Luther's bible differs from the KJV. (from another thread)

Enigma:

Abi! Even many of the anti-Christian "scholars" including the 'Jesus Mythologists' now accept the (or at least the partial) authenticity of Josephus i.e. the so-called Testimonium Flavnum. Just google the Latin words. 

I did, years back and I'll do so again to see what's new and exciting on the subject.
The last I knew, the word Messias in the TF was confirmed to be a later addition.


And we're still waiting for InesQor to answer

PA1982:


And who are those other historians, the ones 'like Josephus' by the way?

And also I'd like to know why InesQor thinks:

InesQor:

In most theological circles, Luke is considered one of the greatest historians ever, thanks to his attention to details on titles given to each person he named in Luke and Acts, names of people, names of locations, years, etc.

A tough question.
I'd advise relocating, for sure.
I wish him and his family all the best!
And yes, I'll keep them in my prayers.

InesQor:

, I think you should be careful to take note of context in your arguments. , Believing in Luke or not, is your personal problem, and not mine.

You didn't understand the point of Carrier's article-

he appears to have gotten all this information from Josephus, and simply cut-and-pasted it into his own "history" in order to give his story an air of authenticity and realism.

All of this came about because you wrote:

InesQor:

,  But when it is clear that other historians like Josephus corroborated Luke's content, then the onus is on you to also discredit Josephus (a secular historian who wrote without a religious bent) as well.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/lukeandjosephus.html,

And now in later posts you back off from that rather curious statement, shift goalposts and declare the thread fulfilled.
It looks as though you were caught out in a badly thought out post and are frantically back pedalling, doesn't it?
And who are those other historians, the ones 'like Josephus' by the way?

Martian:


You act like the josephus quote is not open to debate due to Josephus sounding like a christian apologist in that one passage. Besides, if the the hasn't been manipulated, why did such a monumental figure get such little detail written about him.

"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and as a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvellous things about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared."

The least we can say is somebody name Iesous or yeshua existed, got killed and then a legend arose around him. Won't be the first time.

You know that passage of Josephus is considered a later 'addition' to the text?

OLAADEGBU:

You confuse yourself because you have taken the pond-scum-to-people evolution as fact which requires new information in living things to be added to the genome.  The biblical perspective explains the loss of genetic information is due to the curse in the book of Genesis chapter 3.  We observe that mutations produces defects or mistakes in the genome and not a net gain as evolution expects to see.  Mutations actually confirm the Bible and reminds us of the curse in Genesis 3.  The mutations that accrued from generations past is due to man's sin.  Simples 

You are really quite ignorant so I'm not surprised you make such an error as this

We observe that mutations produces defects or mistakes in the genome and not a net gain as evolution expects to see.

Original human have brown eyes. One colour.
Via mutations, they now have brown, grey, blue or green eyes. Four colours.
From one to four is a net gain.

Now explain to us why lactose tolerance is not a gain, either.

I'm sure you an interesting explanation for male n i p p l e s, too.

FXKing2012:

My dear, the issue btw Jews and Arabs has absolutely nothing to do with Europe; the problem btw Sunnis and Shiites has no European influence whatsoever.
And if u say natural course of event takes eternity, then u are actually unknowingly aligning wt my position that Bishop's curse is responsible for the eventual demise of BH in our lifetime.

I'm surprised at your ignorance.
I was comparing the present situation to the centuries Europe's bloody past.

As for this farfetched bit of mis-reading and feverish imagination:

And if u say natural course of event takes eternity, then u are actually unknowingly aligning wt my position that Bishop's curse is responsible for the eventual demise of BH in our lifetime.

Well, it did make me chuckle.

FXKing2012:

@PA1982, pls make no mistakes about it, I'm not here to claim his prophetic powers are from God neither am I saying they are not; all I'm saying is he's got prophetic powers just like some other prophets in time past. And if anybody does not believe n the existence of such powers then the person can be termed an atheist who does not believe in the spiritual realm. And I'd be glad to lecture such a person on the existence of the spirit realm.

I see nothing here to indicate prophetic powers here.
As for this

And if anybody does not believe n the existence of such powers then the person can be termed an atheist who does not believe in the spiritual realm.

That's rather an astonishing point of view.
A total lack of belief in prophetic powers = atheism

Where does free will enter in such a view, I wonder?

I love it.
One gullible believer in showmanship asks me to stop posting, because my 'predictions' are silly.
The other wants me to be more specific.
Neither reacts to the Nairaland thread I posted which shows just how much of a farace these footie predictions are.

This is hilarious.

OLAADEGBU:

.

Mutations and natural selection is as a result of man's sin against God. God cursed the ground and the animals and man was sentenced to die.

Please don't deny you wrote this foolishness.
It's there for all Nairalanders to see.
No amount of comix from AiG will erase that fact you think blue eyes are the result of a curse.

Let's talk the mutation which caused about blonde hair and the mutations which caused lactose tolerance in human adults.
Also the result of God's curse, I take it?

^^^
Spirit man?
Sounds like juju to me.

FXKing2012:

The crisis btw Israel and Palestine has been raging for how many decades and it's yet to follow your "natural course of events", the animosity and spate of violence btw Sunni and Shiite Muslims has been on for how many centuries and yet to follow your "natural course of events", the hatred and state of violence btw Jews and Arabs have been on for how many millennia and yet to follwo your "natural course of events", etc etc.

Certain things are simply spiritual and dont follow the natural course of events. You need to be spiritually inclined to understand and decipher the things of the spirit though.

I suggest you read up on European history.
The conflicts you mention find their mirror in the centuries of senseless warfare in Europe.
Centuries.
Please don't presume to imagine that "natural course of events" is even compassed by a lifetime.

Look how long it took for Europe to stop persecuting 'witches', for example.
Look how long it took for the UK to allow Catholics to stand for Parliament.
And a long list of other madnesses.

The "natural course of events" isn't dictated by who you think is reasonable.

LOL.
I predict-
In Nigeria
A famous Nollywood actress will be involved in a scandal before the end of the year.
The price of petrol will rise.
The soy harvest will be very good.

International
Germany will win at least 7 gold medals in the Olympic Games.
Findings from a space probe will surprise the scientific community.

Your turn.
LOL.

diluminati:

Olodo i was joking. There is no 'end times'. your body too hot, for a christian thats pretty bad.

davidylan:

this is quite silly and a disgusting double standard. Being a christian does not mean you arent human anymore and thus unable to feel and react to pain, anger or sorrow.

I agree with davidylan.
There's no need for vulgarity.
Tempers flare (mine first) but I try not indulge my taste for vulgarity.
There are other forums here at Nairaland for that!

FXKing2012:

Pls help me understand you very well: are u saying curses, prayers, prophesies, pronouncements, etc by powerful men of God dont work or are u simply saying Oyedepo is fake?

The leaders were captured, a splinter group sprang up and many of their plots have failed to yield the expected destruction (such as the recent failed bomb attempts in churches) and all these coming immediately after Bishop's pronouncement shld tell us something.

Let's stick to the subject of the thread, OK?
Oyedepo hasn't the power to curse BH or anyone else.

Just what do you know about the 'expected destruction', hmmm?
Terror is terrror.
Study the subject, please.

FXKing2012:

The security agencies shld not relax, the prayers by MOG is helping them do a better job. You see, all these noise by BH is just like the last party of the shooting star which shines so bright just before it dies.
Just watch and see what happens to BH in the near future, if it doesnt die a violent death it'll die a natural death.

Shifting goalposts again?
You were a bit obvious this time.

OLAADEGBU:


This proves that the so called atheists has deliberately rejected the biblical God who created them.

Mutations and natural selection is as a result of man's sin against God. God cursed the ground and the animals and man was sentenced to die.

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:17)

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Genesis 3:19).

So blue eyes are the result of sin?
Is this a joke?

FXKing2012:

Stop deceiving yourselves there is no such thing as evolution, such assertion is not supported in the Bible and is devilish.

Blue eyes aren't asserted in the bible either.
So blue eyes are devilish?

I suggest you read your linked articles to the end, InesQor.

InesQor:

, But when it is clear that other historians like Josephus corroborated Luke's content, then the onus is on you to also discredit Josephus (a secular historian who wrote without a religious bent) as well.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/lukeandjosephus.html

In most theological circles, Luke is considered one of the greatest historians ever, thanks to his attention to details on titles given to each person he named in Luke and Acts, names of people, names of locations, years, etc. ,

I see you didn't read to the end because here's the conclusion of the article:

Conclusion

Luke almost certainly knew and drew upon the works of Josephus (or else an amazing series of coincidences remains in want of an explanation), and therefore Luke and Acts were written at the end of the 1st century, or perhaps the beginning of the 2nd. This also results in the realization that almost every famous person, institution, place or event mentioned in L that can be checked against other sources is also found in Josephus, so that efforts to prove the veracity of L by appealing to these checks is cut short by the fact that [b]he appears to have gotten all this information from Josephus, and simply cut-and-pasted it into his own "history" in order to give his story an air of authenticity and realism. [/b]He could thus, for all we know, have been writing historical fiction--using real characters and places, and putting them in fictional situations, all dressed up as history--history with a message, and an apologetic purpose. We thus cannot really know what in L is true or false with regard to the origins of Christianity or the actions of early Christians, since these particular details are the most prone to manipulation for didactic, symbolic, politico-ecclesiastical and apologetic reasons, and have very little if any external corroboration (and no external corroboration from a non-Christian).

Do you understand that? (My bolding, of course)

OK, let's try to forget those embarrassingly crude 'healing' hoaxes.

The prophecies.
Well, it's about numbers.
Make prophecies day in and day out and you're certain to 'hit' a number of times.
Here's a Nairaland thread dedicated to some of the man's failed footie prophecies:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-776199.0.html

^^^
By that logic, we can't prove David Copperfield isn't working against Boko Haram, too.
Get serious.

Oyedepo's posturing can only be called as pertaining to the spiritual realm by someone very, very gullible.

crossman9:

The reason why they had weapons was so Jesus was numbered with the transgressors when they arrested him that is why they had swords

That's an interesting interpretation.
A bit strained in light of the fact that there was the agreed signal- Judas' kiss?

FXKing2012:

And since when is buying a sword the same as carrying a sword?
My bible? That conversation in another thread where you were shown up with transaltion problems seems to affected you. 'My' bible?

This is where u implied that the disciples did not carry weapons. Now deny the bold section does not imply the disciples did not carry weapons.

Of course I deny it- sharpen your reading skills.

You'd confused threads, remember with that rather silly 'your bible' statement?
Is it possible to get this thread back on topic?

Which is, do we have to go along with showmanship in a religious service?
I've already posted videos showing this 'pushing' business happens in displays of 'miracles' in chi kung classes.
It's very convincing, after all.

FXKing2012:

Welcome back from work.

You'll have to explain this reply.
I don't have a clue as to what you mean.
My question was sincere- I see no relation between the virgin birth and Oyedepo's pretentious curse.

^^^
What does the virgin birth have to do with Oyedepo's useless curse?

@dekung, forums are great places to share and learn, aren't they?

dare2think:

,
Boko haram is a result of decades of neglect and bad governance on the part of the federal government and the northern hierarchy. If you think you can use a short cut, 'curse', to address this problem then you are not a realistic person, including your 'man of God'.

The fundamental problem has to be addressed, the northern elites need to educate their kinsmen and children, religion intolerance needs to be frowned upon, job creation for disillusioned  northern youth, and so many other factors.

If you think all these factors are going to addressed by a 'curse' from a charlatan then all I can say is to wake up from your 'super-natural' delusion and read a book about terrorism.

There are no short [/b]cuts to [b]long [/b]term problems.

And especially this:

[b]religion intolerance needs to be frowned upon

I find it hilarious you have to resort to such a foolish 'strawman' argument at this point.

I don't hold back from calling a hoax a hoax.
Especially such crass hoaxes we've been shown as proof here.

FXKing2012:

Pls dont even try to change the subject which made me come after you. [b]Your point was that the disciples never carried weapons (cos u felt those surrounding pastors may have weapons on them) and I made it clear to you that the disciples of Jesus carried weapons, and I've proven it to you from the Bible. Why cant u for once accept the truth and quit being so stubborn. You make it look like it's an argument which u just must win no matter what.
The truth is in the Bible dear, and ur not accepting it does not change the truth.[/b]

Show me where I wrote what you claim:

Your point was that the disciples never carried weapons

Stop inventing things.
You don't impress anyone with this nonsense.

Now, back to the topic?

Deep Sight:



, At all events you need to place your comments in the specific context of my query in the OP - namely why do people seek to completely deny the existence of men such as Moses, Daniel and Jesus? Is this reasonable?,

Fair enough.
Daniel can certainly be dismissed as a myth without any qualms.

Moses and Jesus?
Why bother?
But since we're on the subject, what was the name of the Pharaoh who's daughter drew Moses out of the Nile?
Or the Pharaoh who perished in the crossing of the Red Sea?