₦airaland Forum

Henry240:
Nigeria isn't losing any town to any body.

The SANDF do not have an Airforce.

3 C-130's for a country with a total area of 1.2 million KM

No Aviation fuel

9 pilots
9 navigators

Your MPA's are over 50 years old.

3 C-130's operational at any one time, the rest are rotated through maintenance. This is SOP for any country. Need I remind you that we had one in Lagos days after the disaster, and that you couldent even fly your men to Mali

18 000 hours = plenty aviation fuel
22 000 hours budgeted for = exess of aviation fuel

9 Pilots = prove it
9 Navigators = Prove it

MPA's with modern engines and avionics.

SAAF > NAF

No contest

Henry240:
Two words

White Elephant

Exellent retort, you sure showed me!!

SAAF > NAF

overhypedsteve:
the scourge of terrorism have helped us to build a formidable well equipped army. That is familiar with all the theatres of operation available in Africa from the sahara to the sub sahara. I sometimes wonder how clueless a bunch of SADF men would look in the dusty heat of the northern nigerian theatre. Lol, thats when they will know the different between photography and desert warfare.
SMH@ the ogas in the pics. How them take manage carry those comfortable white chairs go desert for training.

Clueless?

Desert warfare will suit the SANDF perfectly

Do you want to know why?

overhypedsteve:
so what do you as a private citizen think.lol , sell the white elephants and get yourselves an airframe that is in line with your internal and external security demands.

White elephants? lol wut!?!

Their operationability is in line with our current defense needs.

Funds have been allocated for the upgrade of the current fleet, with patrol aircraft and new transports being prime targets.

We are even looking at the A400M again, now that it looks like we can get them since Spain and Germany scaled back their orders.

Money is not something we are short on, but that doesnt mean we will waste it on keeping all 26 Gripen in the air (which will also shorten their service life) when our current needs only call for 14.

Henry240:
More lies , we all know the true state of the SAAF

You have 9 pilots
You only have 3 operational C-130's.
You lack Aviation fuel
Some of your transport planes are over 50 years old
You lack funds
Your airforce is in a pathetic state.

why cant you prove we only have 9 pilots? You said it was a fact that we only have 8, now you say 9? How is it possible for a fact to change?
3 operational c-130's at any one time, because SAAF does this thing called mainyenance, so other C130's are having work done, at any one time. You should try it- maybe that way you could avoid having to send aircraft overseas to be refurbished

18000 flight hours with 22000 budgeted for shows we dont lack fuel or funds (we have a surplus of both)

I have allready posted the funding increases -R324 million last year and another big boost forcast for next year (R10 Billion to be released from the SDA account)

Yep, and there aint anything better for operating out of rudimentary airfeilds in the DRC and other such places where facilities are non existant and runways of poor quality. Not to mention that the engines and avionics are from the 1990's

If SAAF is pathetic then NAF is non existant

Henry240:
You have far more serious problems at hand.

Such as?

Need i remind you that we arent the ones losing town after town to boko haram

Henry240:
SAAF should consider selling Gripens and buying transports
Written by Guy Martin, Wednesday, 29 October 2014


The South African Air Force (SAAF) has 26 Gripens in its inventory but 12 are in “rotational” storage and only 18 Gripen navigators and pilots have been trained to operational status. [/b]Which begs the question: what should we do with aircraft we don’t need and can’t afford to operate?

[b]The solution could be a simple one: sell off the 12 Gripens in storage (since we won’t miss them anyway) and use the money for fuel, pilot training and new equipment that the Air Force desperately needs - its C-130 Hercules fleet is ageing and the Air Force is increasingly forced to rely on charters to move people and equipment to places like the Democratic Republic of Congo, while the SAAF’s maritime surveillance C-47TPs are more than half a century old and suffering from attrition.

While the C-47TPs and C-130s are working extremely hard and are in urgent need of replacement, the Gripens are grossly underutilised. Since 2008 the Gripen fleet has flown 3 500 hours, according to a SAAF official, equating to roughly 135 hours per airframe or roughly 20 hours per aircraft per year, or less than two hours per aircraft per month.

Maintenance for the Gripens has also been problematic - between April and December 2013 the SAAF had no support contracts in place with Saab, with the Air Force only doing basic hands-on maintenance. A support contract worth R285 million (€19 million) was finally awarded in December and is seeing Saab support the Gripen fleet to 2016.

Of the transport fleet, only around three C-130s are airworthy at any given time and only three C-47TPs are available for transport duties. The small fleet of C212s is only useful for carrying small loads short distances. As a result, the South African Air Force often has to rely on chartered aircraft like Il-76s to get its equipment to places like the Central African Republic (CAR) and Democratic Republic of Congo, which can be a very expensive and time-consuming affair – troops have often been stranded while waiting for a chartered flight and a lack of airlift capacity meant the military couldn’t immediately transport armoured vehicles to our soldiers fighting Seleka rebels in the CAR in March 2013.

With the cancellation of the order for eight A400Ms in 2009, the SAAF was left without a clear replacement for the C-130BZ fleet and, since the deposit was paid back to the treasury, left without money for acquiring new transports. Since funding is tight yet the need is urgent, perhaps[b]it is time to advertise some practically new Gripens for sale: low mileage, stored in a nice dry climate and only flown on weekends.[/b]


CC: Agaugust, Mikeczar, patches689, J115 , iterator24, stillchris, rka1, overhypedsteve, mzilakazi, activatekruger, bidexii, naijapikingidi, dievuilt, iconize, Andrewza

South Africa is not considering selling the gripen

One man is suggesting that the gripen be sold

Many private citizens have many opinions

But what citizens think and what SAAF does are very different things

So well done on proving absolutely nothing

rka1:


OPV = Offshore Patrol Vessel usually armed with medium and smaller calibre guns.

Corvette = missile armed escort vessel smaller in size to a Frigate.

Modern corvettes


Modern navies began a trend in the late 20th and early 21st centuries towards smaller, more manoeuvrable surface capability. Corvettes have a displacement between 540 and 3,000 long tons (550 and 3,050 t) and measure 180–420 ft (55–128 m) in length. They are usually armed with medium- and small-caliber guns, surface-to-surface missiles, surface-to-air missiles, and antisubmarine weapons. Many can accommodate a small or medium antisubmarine warfare helicopter.

Most countries with coastlines can build corvette-sized ships, either as part of their commercial shipbuilding activities or in purpose-built yards, but the sensors, weapons, and other systems required for a surface combatant are more specialized and are around 60% of the total cost. These components are purchased on the international market.[3]

Naval definitions are based on tonnage

OPV is just a buzzword, just like ICV is the new buzzword for IFV

agaugust:
NNS Thunder is an OPV, but with 76mm main gun having 13km effective range in rapid fire mode, your Helicopter and it's unlucky Mokopa are both sh.ot down 13km away....Mokopa max range is only 10km, so NNS Thunder kills it before launch...Get it? Yes you get it !
.

But you yourself said that the 76mm is not effective at engaging air targets

Hahahaha, you killed yourself!!

agaugust:
Really ?

Okay, NAF 100 Russian Su-30 Flankers with 100 anti-ship missiles
.

Hahahahah

I can see that 7 Frigates has caused augugug ugh to become very emotional

agaugust:
Are you dumb? Yes you are a dumb mofo !

I am comparing Gowind OPV and P18N OPV, then you are posting Gowind Corvette here, is Corvette same as OPV ? Mumu.

Then for corvettes there different Gowind sizes, there is 1,000 ton Gowind...


"The Gowind 1000 is a 1000 ton corvette which is well armed and fast. It is well-suited for protection, escort and embargo naval missions in a littoral environment. The Gowind 1000 can also perform presence, surveillance, intelligence and policing missions. It is armed with:

1 x OTO Melara 76mm main gun
2 x Nexter Narwhal 20mm cannon
8 x VLS for MBDA VL Mica surface-to-air missiles
4 x MBDA MM40 Exocet antiship missile launchers
1 x Integrated mast to integrate most sensors in a low observable design"

We are talking OPV here and the weaponry on Corvette differs from a dedicated OPV.

P18N was tested and debugged during sea trials to fire missiles in Light Frigate role, but as OPV no missiles are yet installed.

We are comparing real OPVs, so get your head checked....Mumu.

Nope, you said DCNS offered the Gowind to you and you turned it down

DCNS france At that time only offered the L'adroit which was being evaluated by the french navy

Which is bigger, has a longer range and is better armed

Also, just btw, Type 056 is classed as a corvette so both are in the same class

Corvette and Opv have no specific definition its just nomleclature for corvette, other words for the same type of vessels could be something like the USN littoral combat ship

Ie: they are all corvettes it has nothing to do with armament

Face it, you talked sh1t and you got wrecked. Next time do research before you flap your gums

agaugust:
Even Cameroon has retired pilots as reserve, and then...

Prove it

agaugust:
So Mokopa is not an ATGM....what is it? Papa Ajasco
.

ASM

agaugust:
Every standard air force has test pilots, their role includes flying potential procurement aircraft for evaluation.

We said prove Zimbabwe has them

We didnt say explain what a test pilot is

So, proof please

agaugust:
Show proof that it's Mokopa on the helicopter, and if so, go back and read what I said about ATGM is a delusional anti-ship role where the misssle is technically defective and the helicopter suicidal
.

I read your post

It showed nothing

Mokopa would send NNS thunder to the bottom of the ocean

agaugust:
Show proof.

Also count how many of your white pilots have run away to Australia.

Then count how many pilots have lost annual qualification due to drop in flying hours caused by lack of aviation fuel and inability to maintain Gripens in flying condition as a result of pocket ripping flight cost per hour.

SAAF is a dwarf struggling to play basketball
.

No pilots have run away to australia

No pilots have lost qualification

Gripen are the cheapest in the world to maintain

Nigeria has no advanced fighter, no platform that can deploy PGMs, a completely obsolete jet fleet

You are a bunch of monkeys trapped on a basketball court

Henry120:
I don't care how many SAAF reserve pilots you have, my only concern is the SAAF after 15 years has only managed to raise 9 pilots for her entire Gripen fleet.

Compare your miserable numbers to the Czech and Hungarian Airforce. Go on, embarrass yourself...... check them.

Howany pilots do they have?

The figure of ground crew and aircrew you posted would be impressive... If it wasnt for 5 planes

But then again, i am arguing with a clown who thought that ground maintenance staff counted as aircrew

agaugust:
Mokopa is an anti-tank missile....and SANDF/SAN/SAAF does NOT have it.

Any other aircraft launched anti-tank missile in this world like Mi-35 Hinds Ataka missile can be used as an improvised anti-ship missile, but only effective on very small boats because of the very small explosive TNT warhead and HEAT ordnance on such missiles, HEAT is not very effective against non-armour materials like sea vessels.

Also the Mokopa has NO sea skimming capability and has a very POOR 10km range for an anti-ship missile....you are just fascinated by a improvised inefffective land based missile, the slow speed of the helicopter and low ceiling will make it suicidal to use against a frigate that has SAMs and 76mm main gun with 15km range, even an OPV will blast the helicopter into pieces before it can get Mokopa into range of 10km.

Delusional Papa Ajasco in a fruitless frenzy, only pirates will fear Mokopa at sea

.

It could easily do serious damage to your two USN cutters and a number of other vessels in the NN

Henry120:
According to a defenceweb article dated 2014, South-Africa only has 18 Gripen Aircrew.

Stop making emotional posts. You only have 9 pilots, deal with it.

Or we could have 18 Pilots and 0 Navigators

Now prove we only have 9

Henry120:
Provide proof?

You never provide any

agaugust:
Powerful rifle, sights target 1,000m and effective fire 600m. Good choice for Nigerian army's new 5,000 man COIN brigade.

Nigeria is buying everything from new rifles to tanks to jet figthers to missiles to warships to satellites......meanwhile, our Southie friends are still window shopping with their pocket full of cowrie shells....no money o !

Our rifles work just fine

We dont need to replace acient Ak-47's

So we are good.

Also: 7 Frigates

Henry120:
No, you don't, you only have 9. While the cezch republic can muster 80 Air crew and ground personnel for 5 Gripen Jets.

Shame.

Prove it

agaugust:
[size=16pt]

I like the way you improvise your white flag for surrender.

Is that your expensive Woolworths white pant you stripped off your butt and tied to an R4 rifle to make a flag ? Wow, it's white pant okay, but when did you last wash it?

[/size]

.

Taking statements out of context now?

what did i say in the rest of the post?

Consult the two graphs

Graph 1: Air gets colder the higher you get (in the altitudes we are talking about)
Graph 2: Air gets less dense the higher you get

Why would I surrender when the battle ended in victory 3 weeks ago?

agaugust:
Dunce of Gauteng, you just messed up again as usual, tell me, how old are you? Are you married with kids? You are comparing 1,400 ton Type 056 with NNS Centennary of 1,800 tons, I just told you Nigerian navy's version is specially customized and far bigger, see how envy makes you embarrass yourself.

One day Lesotho people will log on to Nairaland and read shocking things about South African brains, that is the day Lesotho will start offering educational scholarship to South African students on compassionate grounds
.

Lol

The Gowind STILL weighs more

The Gowind STILL has longer range

Th Gowind STILL has better weapons systems

Why would I envy a gun boat when South Africa has 4 Stealth Frigates?

Henry120:
Why was Mizikalazi and you fraudsters parading Swedish Gripen pilots as South-Africans?

Why are you unable to prove we only have 8 pilots, you know, since you have so often claimed it to be common knowledge

agaugust:
Bwahahaha

Now you are too ashamed to admit you got beaten by Naija science education.

@Patches has already surrendered, he has humbly admitted today that cold air is dense.

Proves me right, when you fire Bofors artilley on the snow cold mountains of Himalayas, the range will reduce a bit because the snow freezes the air and makes it cold and so air becomes denser at high altitude . The weather source I posted confirms it and says the shot golf ball travels slower and thus less range on a cold day.

Snow cold air is denser whether at low or high altitudes, my source esucates you that the molecules of air get frozen, compacted, more friction and resistance to anything trying to fly through them.

You failed science in school, same way sources say your South African teachers themselves fail science, so in your ANC kindgom the blind lead the blind into the mud pit.

South African government begged Nigeria for science teachers like a servant begs his master, and you nicest master is Nigeria, the European masters mock your ANC crime and HIV infested world
.
.

yes cold air more dense than hot air

cold air at altitude is still less dense than air at low altitude

I find your long rambling post about superior nigerian education to be too ironic for words. While the massive emotion in your post shows that you are aware of how badly you have humiliated yourself.

agaugust:
Nope, what South Africa has is 6 X the foreign dollar debt of Nigeria, debt is where you are 'bigger' than we are
.

35% of our GDP is debt, this is intentional and well below international standards

And in the end of the day, we have 3X the income you do

Also, your debt is 11% of GDP, so how does 11 X 6 = 35%?

Were you telling lies or are you simply exposing your poor education again?

agaugust:
Prices are difficult to compare, the Chinese OPV is built on specially demanded specifications for Nigerian navy, its mixed Chinese, Russian and British equipment.

Yes we got a better ship than the Gowind, the NNS Centenary has superior stealth, superior tonnage, superior range, superior weapons, superior helicopter facilities, and superior open architecture for modular conversion into a guided missile light frigate if war arises.

Nigeria buys smart, South Africa buys over-priced ships with defective combat suit plus many European rules and regulations to suffocate the customer
.

Gowind Class has superior tonnage (2500t against your 1400t)
Gowind has superior range (4000nm against your 3500nm)

Gowind 1000 and 2500 both actual have missiles unlike yours

How is your helicopter pad better?

Gowind is faaaaarr superior.

Valour Class combat suite is not defective, or else the french would not have choses it for their own frigates and their freaking flagship

agaugust:
Shot down MiG-21 with Mirage F-1 and you boast? Lol.

Why did your Mirage F-1 not shoot down MiG-23 in the same war?

SAAF cowards, using jets to chase helicopters, avoiding Cuban teenage pilots of MiG-23
.

SAAF/SADF shot down 3 Mig-23ML's in Angola
http://www.mercenary-wars.net/angola/angola-86-89/russian-downed-pilots.html

agaugust:
Mongoose is not a 'missile' really, it's an anti-missile projectile and NOT yet operational NOT in service, it's another Mokopa scandal

NAF, NA, NN have SEVEN different types of missiles .

1. Swingfire
2. Atoll
3. PL-9C
4. Otomat
5. Roland
6. SA-7
7. Blowpipe.

Get it?
.

1. Swingfire - obsolete
2. Atoll - obsolete
3. PL-9C - Iris-T and A-Darter are superior
4. Otomat Mk1 - obsolete
5. Roland - obsolete
6. SA-7 - obsolete
7. Blowpipe - obsolete

Wow, so impressive

agaugust:
You have mostly very very old versions of Oerlikon, only few are a bit modern, you wanna put CRAM on obsolete guns?

Tell us how many of the few good ones will be CRAM configured, we need numbers, though the current cash trouble of SANDF may still afford about 4 units of guns by 2017-2020
.

Cash was assigned to the contract

CRAM is a complete upgrade to the gun.

It is simply yet another thing Nigeria will not have