₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
If I didn't raise the Impala jet issue you would have deceived us that SAAF had 250 fantastic jets during Angolan war. Fraudster, you think Nigerians are unlearned people like your fellow Soweto lazy men koeldrank drinkers who don't work and don't go to school while ANC government feeds their parasite mouths daily?

Anyway SAAF Gripens have only 25 missiles, NAF F-7 jets over 100 missiles, then add JF-17 missiles incoming.

We know NAF is getting total air superiority over SAAF after Christmas, enjoy your newly dropped air power rankings
.

SAAF has unlimited supply from next year onwards

Henry120:
SAAF JAS-39D
(click to view full)
In 1999, South Africa became the Saab JAS-39 Gripen‘s 1st export customer, ordering 26 fighters.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/south-africa-military-maintenance-matters-010956/


Actually, I was correct.

15 years
26 planes
8 pilots to show


Embarrassing

posting outdated information

14 pilots, 18 aircrew, 54 hawk pilots, 18 000 hours

AugustineAgain:
No, you tell us how many of your 30 year old Oerlikon twin barrel guns are being upgraded to CRAM.

SANDF is so poor each Gripen jet carries less than one missile each, precisely 0.96 missile per jet, and your Valour frigates Excoet missile shortage is also bad.

Do you know the meaning of missile poverty? Ask SAAF and SAN
.

Go read SIPRI - it clearly says, IRIS-T aquired as short term solution until A-Darter enters service

Production starts next year, then our supply will be unlimited

We plan for the future.

Henry120:
The variant you fly is old. It is a 4th Gen Aircraft, infact going by the comparison with the JF-17, it should be rated as 3.7 gen.

The E/F is 4.5, not 5 Gen. Only the F-22, F-35 and T-50 are 5th Gen.

Why?

What superior avionics does the Junk Fighter have?

Please, I really wanna hear this

Henry120:
But you signed the contracts in 1999. It means from the time you signed the contracts, you must have sent officers to train on the platform.

So, from 1999-2014, you only managed to train 8 people to fly the Gripen.

"It does get more pathetic than this.".......... by this I mean, only 12 SAAF Gripens are operational.

A true broke/ pathetic Airforce.

All units operational

14 in the Air at any one time

18 Aircrew, 14 Grip pilots, 54 Hawk pilots

18000 Air-Hours in the last financial year.

These are facts. If you wish to give us your own figures I recommend you come with citations.

AugustineAgain:
How many CRAM units will you buy? How many will you have to spread around all army, navy, and air force bases, as well as different army battalions on different battle fronts? How many locations, how many CRAM guns which you won't get until year 2017 to 2020 as SANDF is broke now.

Dreamland of delusions, that's where you live dude.

SANDF budgets were increased for the next financial year

The contract was signed a long time ago and money allocated - so it will follow its timetable.

How many? We have 169 Oerlekon, and the Starstreak systems to add to that.

AugustineAgain:
There are thousands of that engine happily flying around the world today. Your South African engineers were not smart enough to master it, they failed where others succeeded
.

Nope, POS slav engineering did not meet our standards

Henry120:
15 years to train 8 pilots

Pathetic!!!

15 years to train a total of 72 aircrew

14 Gripen pilots
54 Hawk pilots

We have more jet qualified aircrew than Nigeria has jets

Henry, you said you prayed for me. Now I must ask, do you not feel at least guilty by sticking to this lie that we only have 8 pilots?

Why are you so obsessed by this lie?

Henry120:
Clown.

Kobani has show Fighter Jets are useless in the CAS role.

Since the bombing began, the Turks have let in pershmerga fighters with heavy weaponry into kobani to assist the Kurds. Same Kurdist fighters the turks and U.S consider terrorists.

Since the bombings in kobani began by the USAF, Saudis, Emaratis and Australians, there have been over 500 air strikes on the town. Yet the Air strikes haven't pushed away the terrorist who still hold a significant part of the town. They've only succeed in halting their progress. For a small town like kobani, it is a military failure, halting their advance cannot be classified as a success. Towns have been over-run, and would still be taken back.

For bombardments to have commenced in over 2 months, yet their are terrorist still dug in, it means one of two, the targeting systems of the F/A18 and F-15E's are poor, or the uselessness of Fighter jets have again been brought to the fore in kobani.


So infact, the kobani example proves again, if you want to prosecute CAS, get a CAS asset.

US has only conducted 135 airstrikes in Kobani

They cannot drop bombs as they please as ISIS have responded to US bombing by moving their positions as close as 15m to the Peshmerga

ISIS have lost 4000 fighters trying to take Kobane
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/28/7079695/isis-iraq-syria-defeat

This ammounts to 13% of their total manpower lost
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/11/world/meast/isis-syria-iraq/

Not to mention that the town was about to fall when the bombing started, and the bombing stopped the town falling.

You joker.

agaugust:
You personally old the most advanced RPG to Afghanistan terrorists?

The Challenger tank was hit by an RPG and the fact remains that it was penetrated. Simple.

The armour on the Badger IFV five times weaker than the armour of Challenger MBT that was penetrated by RPG.

Poland's Rosomak IFV in your own source was hit by an ordinary HE RPG-7 not Armour Piercing RPG or HEAT RPG-7 that penetrates even Main Battle Tanks that have 100mm solid steel armour. Does your Badger have the armour equal to a tank ? No !

Then according to your own source the Rosomak IFV was not the ordinary version, it was the special version with upgraded armour built to resist RPG. The report also says that an RPG was fired directly on the Rosomak IFV frontal armour which is always the thickest armour on any IFV.


Old RPG-7 HEAT shell is built to penetrate over 500mm thick armour of steel, so even if Badger IFV has double the armour of Ratel, with 40mm thickness all round, the RPG-7 HEAT will slice through the Badger like a hot knife cuts through butter.

"The RPG-7 can fire a variety of warheads for anti-armor (HEAT, PG-Protivotankovaya Granata) or anti-personnel (HE, OG-Oskolochnaya Granata) purposes, usually fitting with an impact (PIBD) and a 4.5 second fuze. Armor penetration is warhead dependent and ranges from 300mm to 600mm of RHA armour; one warhead, the PG-7VR, is a 'tandem charge' device, used to defeat reactive armor with a single shot. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7


Badger will die roasted by one single shot from an old generation anti-armour RPG-7 !

Better go write your final will on how your property will be shared among your family and close relatives. Fool !
.

Poland's Rosomak IFV in your own source was hit by an ordinary HE RPG-7 not Armour Piercing RPG or HEAT RPG-7 that penetrates even Main Battle Tanks that have 100mm solid steel armour. Does your Badger have the armour equal to a tank ? No !

Your own source says, it was hit by RPG-7 and does not specify, and the first one was hit on the side of the vehical. See pictures.

"In early 2008 a Polish Rosomak serving in Afghanistan (the version with upgraded armor) was attacked by Taliban rebels. The vehicle was hit by two RPG-7 rockets. In June 2008 a Rosomak was attacked by Taliban and was hit in its frontal armor with a RPG. The armour was not penetrated."


The RPG that penetrated the Chally 2 was not an RPG-7, it was an RPG-29

In the August attack, which occurred during an operation to arrest a leading insurgent in the town of al-Amarah, in southern Iraq, the Challenger was damaged when a Russian-made rocket-propelled grenade, known as an RPG-29, defeated the ERA and penetrated the driver's cabin.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1551418/MoD-kept-failure-of-best-tank-quiet.html

And the RPG penetrated the underside of the vehicle, not the sides or the front

In August 2006 in al-Amarah, an RPG-29 damaged the underside of a Challenger 2, detonating ERA in the area of the driver's cabin. The driver lost part of his foot and two more of the crew were also injured but the driver was able to reverse 1.5 mi (2.4 km) to an aid post. The incident was not made public until May 2007; in response to accusations, the MoD said "We have never claimed that the Challenger 2 is impenetrable."[17][18] Since then, the ERA has been replaced with a Dorchester block and the steel underbelly lined with armour as part of the 'Streetfighter' upgrade as a direct response to this incident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2

So, the Rosomak and Badger can shrug off RPG's to the side... but the BMP-2 cannot

Old RPG-7 HEAT shell is built to penetrate over 500mm thick armour of steel, so even if Badger IFV has double the armour of Ratel, with 40mm thickness all round, the RPG-7 HEAT will slice through the Badger like a hot knife cuts through butter.

Cool story, problem is, we have shown this to be untrue in combat

As usual, your over simplification and lack of knowledge leads you to beleive that you have an argument. You dont, and never have.

BMP-2 < Badger IFV

Henry120:
Mumu talk.


Combat experience is the very best training an infantry man can receive.

No it is not.

If it was soldiers from Afghanistan, Somalia, Mali and Congo would be the best in the world.

Again, as Gulf War 1 showed, combat experience is useless when your foe is better motivated, trained and organized.

This has been common knowledge since ROMAN TIMES.... the saying:

Their drills are bloodless battles and their battles are bloody drills

agaugust:
Mbombe is not important, it has ONLY ONE SINGLE potential small buyer . Lol
.

Thats one more buyer than the Igiri

Henry120:
Nigerian army T-72B in the field. #pictorial evidence.

no proof that it is Nigerian

Henry120:
You've been unable to disapprove nothing.

That's a Nigerian army T-72B in Adamawa state, N.E Nigeria.

In this case, it's actually a duck.

And this is a South African Merkava in the Karoo, Southern South Africa

Henry120:
But you can clearly see a Nigerian soldier, how is that it isn't in service?

You're saying, it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, feeds like a duck, but somehow, it isn't a duck?

No,

The question is not where it is a duck

But WHERE the duck is

A small picture of a T-72 (of unknown model type) on a transport on a road in a topography and biome that could literally be on any of the worlds continents

agaugust:
[size=16pt]

Quote a NATO source, it was a NATO operation. South African source will say SANDF killed 1,000 Seleka rebels with no photo of single dead Seleka rebel available in this world from that battle in Bangui.

Nation of liars.

Your source clearly says Gripen did NO single ISTAR in Libya, Swedish Gripen did far less than half of ONLY basic and simple RECONNAISSANCE, the ISTA is missing, only the R was done by the poorly rated and incapable Gripen jets

Your source also revealed that loiter time of Gripen in Recce role is less than the 1 hour I expected, Gripen can only fly 40 minutes in patrol recconnaisance role....one of the worst patrol endurance aircraft in the world

Lol, now it's clear NATO was doing real ISTAR in Libya using American ISTAR aircraft .

Lol , no ISTAR aircraft in South Africa o ! SAAF is obsolete o !

.
[/size]

Why are you behaving like an ape?

The source is pretty clear

How do you calculate 1 hour loiter time?

Why is loiter time relevant?

agaugust:
[size=16pt]



Hunters loiter around to find the animal to kill.

Scorpion jet loiter time is a great 5 hours on patrol, good for ISTAR.

NAF ATR-42 loiter time is a massive 8 hours on patrol !!! Perfect for ISTAR !!!

SAAF Gripen jet has embarrassingly small loiter time of 1 hour, very bad for ISTAR.

NAF is the supreme master ISTAR continental power house of Africa !

[/size]
.

Then why did NATO chose the Gripen over the ATR-42 for ISTAR in Libya?

agaugust:
Noisy jet engine. Speed to fast over target area. Radar range ground tracking ~60km only. Tiny cockpit with no specially dedicated ISTAR equipment consoles. Short travel range point only operational radius. Very short loiter time over target area. Zero ELINT capability....all these make SAAF Gripen jet a poor man's low profile and ineffective ISTAR aircraft.

NAF ATR-42 powerfully rules the ISTAR world of Africa from Cape Town to Cairo, while we fly, SAAF will open mouth dey look us like alhaji lookman yussuf
.

So that is why, despite having access to the Italian ATR Surveyor, NATO chose the Gripen as their primary ISTAR platform in Libya?

EVarn:
leopard 2?,as in the french leopard 2?,who will buy it for you?.well,its certainly nice to fantacize about nice things....but,its wrong to resort to telling lies.a leopard 2 aint a bowl of pap.

this guy doesnt even know his mbt's

Leo2 is german

leclerc is french

Draken is the fuggen tits.

The first true-blue multi-role fighter that could operate off public roads and be re-armed by poorly trained conscripts in under 10min. It was just as at home intercepting bombers as it was doing the dance of death with fighters.

Hnnngggg.....

Ironically, the Draken is from the same era as the F-7

agaugust:
We are happy to inform you that SAAF Hawk jets are a copy of 1974 Hawk jets. Equation balanced.

Cool,

Our second line trainers and light CAS are based on old airframes.

Your first line dedicated interceptors are older than the Hawk (Fishbed first flew in 1956)

Equation unbalanced.

agaugust:
He was indecent enough to use his mother as comparison to F-7 jet, but I was decent enough to use a man that is not his blood relation.

Gripen jet is a copy of 1970s Viggen jet which is a copy of 1960s Draken jet . They are the same family copied along the family line
.

Gripen is evolution

F-7 is a straight up copy

Pic related, Draken and Grip

Are you saying Delta wing is the same as Canard wing?

Ps: I have a love affair with the Draken, wrong topic to tango with me on

agaugust:
HEAT RPG that is able to destroy a mighty Main Battle Tank that has 100mm amour of solid steel that your weak Badger IFV does NOT have !

Also, you are right, Badger does not have 100mm of solid steel. It has composite armor

Welcome to the 21st century

agaugust:
Vickers Mk III fires both armour piercing shells and also high explosive anti-tank shells, it will kill the Olifant
.

It cant kill what it cant hit

agaugust:
Nope, the RPG used on Rosomak is an ordinary HE RPG and NOT a standard armour penetrating HEAT RPG that is able to destroy a mighty Main Battle Tank that has 100mm amour of solid steel that your weak Badger IFV does NOT have !

In war the enemy uses all types of RPG on you, and you cannot select his weapons for him.

Show me where Badger was tested against armout piercing RPG !
....and SANDF has only 2 units of Badger IFV for evaluation and NOT yet in service !

Even if you hopefully buy it and induct by year 2020, armor destroying RPG will destroy all your Badgers like a BMP-2.

FACT !!
.

First show me where "RPG used on Rosomak is an ordinary HE RPG and NOT a standard armour penetrating HEAT RPG"

agaugust:
[size=16pt]


Thanks for confirming what I always said that South African army is a very weak dry land only army built ONLY for homeland defense with ZERO force projection outside homeland and thus inferior to the all terrain equipped Nigerian army.

You proved me right, you a South African soldier, so God bless you sir !

[/size].

why does a lack of amphibious vehicals mean no force projection?

America upgraded the armor on the brad so it cannot cross rivers... so they have no amphib... what difference does it make?

Amphibious vehicals for anything other than Marine units is an obsolete concept, because it means less armor

l8r

this is boring

there is a bottle of soju with my name on it,

Henry120:
A more coherent argument, but at what speeds?

What range, loiter time?

None of which are relevant

Troop101:
https://www.nairaland.com/avatars/ffm7vik5xj2j7lu4kinrad3o445k0dex1307384

what is this?

Henry120:
A more coherent argument, but at what speeds?

The ones that Recce Pods and Sniper Pods are designed to operate at

Henry120:
Nothing to prove they are operational, like I have consistently argued.

Nothing to prove it isnt.

Also nothing to prove you have one.

Seriously, what is wrong with you?