₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
Show me how India towed artillery to Himalayas mountain top and fired it from there, yet the guns tyres did not roll down the mountain steep slope

Bofors FH-77B fires same series of shells as Bofors Archer.

The thing is not the gun, but the shell that carries rocket assistance, the extra rocket is not on the gun, its on the shell....fool

All videos of Indian army shows the Bofors on flat ground, not on steep slippery sliding snow covered mountain slope....fool

They were on ground and fired into mountains to dislodge Pakistani army that occupied disputed mountains....fool

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This is beyond desperate on your part.

The gun is clearly seen in the Himalayas mountain range. The Himalayas have an average elevation of 6,100m. This is known as high altitude. Just for reference, the highest point in Africa is 5,895 meters.

Why you are talking about slopes and such is beyond me.

No, the FH77B and Archer do not fire the same ammunition. I know exactly what VLAP is and I never said it had anything to do with the gun.

The Archer has the L52 designation meaning that it has a 52 liter chamber. This is significantly bigger than the chamber of the FH77B. The bigger chamber allows the firing of bigger shells. The shells need to be bigger so that you can attach the VLAP system.

Yet again, you are having a big fat argument with someone, and yet you have no idea what you are saying.

lezz:
you're still the one who peddles lies and twisted stats like hot patotatoes

Feel free to debunk them.

agaugust:
[size=14pt]UNITA joined forces with FNLA that had over 20,000 soldiers to add to UNITA

SADF was counted at 20,000 men, total with UNITA and FNLA is over 100,000 already.

You were the one telling lies that 4,000 SADF defeated 150,000 MPLA and Cubans

Go read history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War

[/size]

Still quoting wikipedia?

Brah, UNITA numbers were 60 000 - from a real citation
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yNemVdadVxcC&pg=PA562&lpg=PA562&dq=UNITA+forces+65,000&source=bl&ots=7HjtLpBMfz&sig=HJiARq5j3QPKDYBLhGdvd8pj7po&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Tog7UbaUG4uS7AbtroBQ&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=UNITA%20forces%2065%2C000&f=false


And 60 000 + 20 000 =/= 120 000

Remember, you said 120 000 UNITA forces? Must I quote where you said that again to remind you?

And you were the one who said 4000 SADF, not me.

Your argument is collapsing in on itself.


Twist and turn all you want, your lies are on record for all to see

[size=15pt]A [updated] round up of the weeks lies as told by Augubgugug

1. China developed a new wire-guided ATGM in the 2000's
2. Biafran civil war involved 500 000 men
3. Nigeria has 660 feild guns
4. UNITA had 120 000 men
5. 300 SANDF fought in CAR
6. Nigeria has Base-Bleed 155mm shells
7. Bofors FH77B with Excalibur munitions can acheive a range of 60km

Isnt this the same guy who left the thread after accusing us South Africans of telling lies?[/size]

agaugust:
[size=14pt]Try prove me wrong if you can [/size]
.

Proved them all wrong already.

Hence I can say that they are lies.

agaugust:
The post is from South Africa, so you quote it here as a repeat.


Show me where VLAP for Bofors FH-77B is said to be 41km.

The Indian army made NO mention of any shell apart from standard and base bleed in the official video.

VLAP for Bofors is Excalibur and range is 60km .

"The range of the gun is extended to 60 km with the precision-guided Raytheon/Bofors XM982 Excalibur round. The Excalibur shell is corrected in flight towards a pre-programmed trajectory by a GPS guidance system." Wikipedia.


At altitude means what? Gun is towed to mountain top? Last time you posted helicopter airlifting artillery, is that a tow? Helicopter is air force, show us a modern army towing artillery to mountain top to deploy there.

You lost again, as you always do, bobo loser
.

So you are saying you have Excalibur now?

[size=15pt]And, again, you are telling lies. The 60km range is acheived with the Archer FH77 BW L52. Not the FH77B gun!!

YET ANOTHER LIE TO ADD TO THE LIST!![/size]

And why do you specifically want pictures of a gun towed up a mountain top? I have already shown you guns can be moved up there.

But if you insist, here you go, pic related, Indian Bofors FH77B in the Himalaya's - a.k.a HIGH ALTITUDE

Argument Status:

[ ] Intact
[ ] Damaged
[ ] Destroyed
[X] Obliterated

[size=15pt]A round up of the weeks lies as told by Augubgugug

1. China developed a new wire-guided ATGM in the 2000's
2. Biafran civil war involved 500 000 men
3. Nigeria has 660 feild guns
4. UNITA had 120 000 men
5. 300 SANDF fought in CAR
6. Nigeria has Base-Bleed 155mm shells

Isnt this the same guy who left the thread after accusing us South Africans of telling lies? [/size]

agaugust:
Lies ! Lies !! Lies !!!

No where in modern war has 4,000 men fought and 150,000 men and survived.

300 SANDF ran away from 1,500 Seleka rebels in C.A.R.

Angolan bush war was 4,000 SADF frontline, 18,000 SANDF rear-guard near home lines, and 120,000 UNITA army frontline beside the 4,000 SADF, shows that the war was actually the work of 120,000 UNITA rebels of Angola, SANDF was NOT able to fight the war alone

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[size=15pt]More lies Exposed[/size]

[size=15pt]UNITA had a maximum number of only 65 000 in 1990 (we had left by then)[/size]
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yNemVdadVxcC&pg=PA562&lpg=PA562&dq=UNITA+forces+65,000&source=bl&ots=7HjtLpBMfz&sig=HJiARq5j3QPKDYBLhGdvd8pj7po&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Tog7UbaUG4uS7AbtroBQ&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=UNITA%20forces%2065%2C000&f=false

And 4000 men face 150 000 and survived for 25 years... winning every single battle

We only deployed 4 000 men as that is all we needed to whoop the MPLA and Cubans. We send more when what is there is winning?

Ps: I love it how the number of SANDF in CAR grows every time you mention it... in a few years you will be saying there was a whole Division of SANDF in the CAR

lezz:
Eat that : The Liberia mission was
predominantly funded and executed by Nigeria “on a conflict that did not directly affect its own
security, at a time when its 1995 foreign debt
stood at $35 billion,” hence the conclusion that,
“No Western nation, especially following the
Somalia intervention, could match such
commitment.”[xlvii] Nigeria accounted for over 70% of the force and 80% of the funding
expending about $11 billion in the process.[xlviii]

So not only was it a fuckup

It was an expensive fuckup


Nice

agaugust:
Yes Next...

The numbers you call fraud include your South African trusted source DefenceWeb

SAAF chief did not say foreign armies, he said ARMIES are not comfortable with Mokopa useless range that is not practicable, and ARMIES include SANDF.

Boko Haram lives surrounded in any city they invade, Nigeria surrounds them, that's why they keep getting uprooted and flee from town to town, Damboa, Konduga, Mubi....Boko keeps running and abandoning their proclaimed Islamic caliphate, they leave their 'kingdom' when Nigerian army begins slaughter by fire.


Base Bleed Bofors range is 41km, ownership of base bleed is common and arms sales logs don't care record it.

Extended range Excalibur for Bofors has range 60km.

South African army like Nigerian army have base bleed, but both armies have no rocket assist shells in service.

SANDF G-6 and G-5 base bleed range is 38km, while Nigeria is 41km. We beat you on shell range and numbers of guns.

You have to live with these facts even though they hurt and haunt you daily

CASE CLOSED

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Blah blah blah

Nigeria has no base-bleed

FH77B 40Km+ range is only achievable at high altitude with VLAP

South Africa makes VLAP ammunition, so if we want it we have it.

Your max range is 24km. Ours is 39km.

Finished en klaar

And no, our SAAF chief was not talking about the SANDF. Repost the quote.

agaugust:
Base Bleed Bofors range is 41km, ownership of base bleed is common and arms sales logs don't care record it.

Extended range Excalibur for Bofors has range 60km.

South African army like Nigerian army have base bleed, but both armies have no rocket assist shells in service.

SANDF G-6 and G-5 base bleed range is 38km, while Nigeria is 41km. We beat you on shell range and numbers of guns.

You have to live with these facts even though they hurt and haunt you daily

CASE CLOSED

.

Hey chucklefuck

Your own source says that you have a max range of 38km

1km short of your 39km.

And, until you show us Nigerian base-bleed. You have none. Hence, max range of only 24km.

Thats it, the matter is closed.

Henry120:
Your Sub only returned into service after 7years at the docks.

You only have enough sailors to man 2 Frigates. Pathetic.

You only got 8 pilots for your Gripen jet, of which you lack the money or fuel to run them.

"The government's jets are part of the SAAF, so post that your fraudulent link somewhere else."

Nope your Augusta helicopters are mouth-bowled. Posting a photo here of an Augusta, and another photo there proves absolutely nothing.


You deployed nothing to directly to deal with poaching, apart from soldiers, special forces, American Navy seals, helicopters, MRAPs.

Yup, you deployed nothing.

Henry120:
You Sub only returned into service after 7years at the docks.

You only have enough sailors to man 2 Frigates. Pathetic.

You only got 8 pilots for your Gripen jet, of which you lack the money or fuel to run them.

"The government's jets are part of the SAAF, so post that your fraudulent link somewhere else."

Nope your Augusta helicopters are mouth-bowled. Posting a photo here of an Augusta, and another photo there proves absolutely nothing.


You deployed nothing to directly to deal with poaching, about from soldiers, special forces, American Navy seals, helicopters, MRAPs.

Yup, you deployed nothing.

Yes, because we did a complete overhaul of our submarine by ourselves - you cannot even overhaul the aradu

Because that is what we planned with the vessels, if you knew anything about naval vessels you would know the 1/3 rule of thumb (for every one at sea, two are in maintenance). We have one operational, one being "run up" or used for training, one undergoing maintenance and one undergoing re-fit. And every year, all 4 put to sea for the fleet reveiw - how do we sail ships without crew?

The fact that nigeria has ZERO operational frigates is what is pathetic.

14 Gripen fully operational, means a minimum of 18 Pilots. Air-force budgeted for 20 000 hours of fly time. 18 000 used. Meaning we have a fuel excess.

Augusta squadrons are fully operational. They were briefly grounded pending the outcome of a crash investigation (standard procedure). The man who said they were mothballed sayed they were mothballed in a Cape Town hanger, yet the squadron that operates them is in Pretoria (pic related -"mothballed" Augusta)

We didnt deploy soldiers, MRAP's or Navy seals. I have no idea where you get this nonsense from.

Yet again, you can stick to your imaginary machinations all you want.

But facts are facts. And factually speaking, you are wrong.

PS: you are the one who allways demands pictures, so here you go, Augusta operational, all 4 frigates at sea.

Henry120:
Joker.

Excellent retort, you sure showed me!

Henry120:
Oga, you have faced no wars.

The SADF is not the SANDF.

The same men serve in both

SADF = SANDF

Henry120:
Buhahahahahahahahahaha

Joke of the century.

You maintain and run what military, your pathetic armed forces........ LOL.... tell me another tale?

Oh yes, you have deployed all your assets against poachers and have still failed miserably.

Valour Frigates - operational
Subs - operational
Augusta - operational
Hawks - operational
Gripen - 12 in rotation (14 operational)*

How about you tell us another tail.

And we deployed nothing to directly counter poaching.

So again, if you want to invent arguments, go start a thread entitled "thoughts from Henry120's imagination"

Otherwise, keep it factual.

*And this is according to outdated sources - considering 18 pilots have now been trained.

Henry120:
Reason it's prolonged is because of politics.

You should probably be thinking about how your military and special forces have consistently failed with poachers.

You cant fail at something if your arent assigned to do it.

And poaching numbers are down.

Either way. Your argument is invalid.

Henry120:
The SANDF wish they have the successful military streak Nigeria has.

We don't lead from the back, all our missions are at one point must have been Nigerian led.

In sudan, liberia, and sierra-leone we consistently led the U.N largest PKO deployments.

Please, we have two world wars, korea and Angola under our belts

Nigeria's last semi-conventional war was in the 1960's

Nigeria has never faced a well armed and equipped enemy

Liberia and Sierra-Leone were not UN, and they were both massive failures.

agaugust:
Nigerian army is 130,000 regular and 32,000 reserves before new massive recruitment for Boko war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Army

Current regular Nigerian army is 150,000 and add reserves we have 182,000 men.

Add Air force and Navy, Nigeria has over 200,000 men while South Africa is dwarfed with your manpower shortage at 72,000 men including all regular and reserves.

Nigerian army will completely surround SANDF and cage you and squeeze you into the center like rats caught in a mouse trap

.

Wikipedia

4 000 mean faced 150 000 men in Angola.... and yet the 4 000 came of tops year after year

You big slow formations cannot handle our maneuver warfare, and will make a nice target for our superior artillery and air-power

Henry120:
What we know is, the SANDF is in a pathetic state, riddled with tons of equipment it cannot afford, maintain or run.

You have the oldest Infantry in the world. With the world's highest HIV rate in any military on the planet.

Nothing to be proud of.

Hollywood style photos are nothing, anybody can take a photo of the same object from multiple different angles.

You cannot deal with common poachers despite deploying all your available assets.

And yet we maintain and run all of it!!

Oldest infantry in the world hey? Average age decreases year by year - thanks to numerous programs

Hoolywood photos of us using our equipment

We have not deployed all available assets against poachers, we have actually deployed none

Henry120:
We are miles ahead of South-Africa.

Boko-haram is only a tiny speck. The only reason it has prolonged is simply because of political, religious issues.

Reason it is prolonged is because your military simply cannot handle them

agaugust:
[size=14pt] Good to see you a South African soldier admit that your current military has ZERO war experience today 2014 and all you have is school training for testing weapons against stones, wood, trees and sand with NO SINGLE ENEMY to fire back at your SANDF.



Nigerian army and air force has current large scale war experience 2014, best and latest in Africa [/size]

.

I would rather have a well trained military with zero war experience than a rag-tag military with lots of war experience

The m23 rebels in Congo had decades of war experience... and yet we and our tanzanian brothers brushed them aside with ease

lezz:
sa had involved the military in dealing with rhino poaching in the past.

In support, as SAPS and SANParks lacked adequate helicopter and Recon assets. The SANDF also had overlapping objectives in certain parts of Kruger parks with regards to border control.

For the SANDF it was a secondary tasking

lezz:
your defence ministry pointed it out as a problem. And antiretroviral drugs just don't cut it, living conditions, rest and little physical exertion is also required.

It's a problem in any army.

Someone doesnt know how ARV's work

Someone doesnt know SANDF policy with regards to HIV+ personnel

lezz:
sa army couldn't encircled rhino porchers , is it a terrorist group relatively unknown to africa and which the west are still studying that you would encircle ?
Your conventional warfare history is written in controversies, please do not comment where you do not have prior experience or precedence.

Globally southafrican army is not even rated 2nd on the continent. Go figure.
Then come back with your tail behind your legs and you'll receive a pat on the head.

With regards to poaching, that is law enforcement and is not the concern of the military

With regards to military history, unlike Nigeria, South Africa has fought real wars. And unlike Nigeria, South Africa has yet to lose a single battle. Unlike Nigeria, our COIN ops against PLAN were highly successful.

With regards to African rankings, Nigeria is well behind South Africa.

agaugust:
Stop all this rubbish of saying someone is lying and give this forum a little decency, try face an intelligent debate.

Nigerian army artillery guns are well over 700 units, check SIPRI, Wikipedia, Beegeagle and Defenceweb, count all the different artillery types and numbers then add them all up, D-30, OTO Melara and M-56 Yugo alone are 600 artillery guns in Nigeria without counting Bofors and Palmaria, then the M46, D-20 and D-74 artillery too.


Now to the real life battlefield.....

What gives you impression that armies at war are always over 20km apart and away from each other?

How do tanks and infantry fight at that range?

Even your SAAF chief complains that at too long a range like Mokopa 10km, an army will lose accuracy of fire.

Wars are not fought and won 20km distance away, armies have to close-in and engage.

50,000 SANDF will face 150,000 Nigerian army that will completely encircle you like a round ring of fire and crush SANDF into the centre.

Anyway, Nigerian Bofors FH-77B artillery has range 41km, superior to SANDF G-6 artillery range of 39km


Bofors 73

Palmaria 50

M-56 Yugo 200

D-30 and M-series 200

Oto Melara about 150

M-46, D-20, etc over 20

Over 660 units.

Current SANDF artillery corps have ZERO war experience in the last 20 years, Nigerian artillery has constant and regular war experience since 20 years ago up till today as we speak

.

Those numbers are straight up fraudulent

Makopa can be fired at any distance up to 10km, the Army Cheif did not complain about the Makopa's use for us - he was referring to other underdeveloped countries

Artillery generally fights at long range

FH-77B has a maximum range of only 30,000 m when using advanced HEER Ammunition - which you do not have. Your actual maximum range with standard ammunition is 24km

G5 and G6 have maximum ranged in excess of 55km

Nigerian Army cannot encirlce a high-mobility army like the SANDF. They cannot even encircle towns held by Boko Haram.

You do not need battle-experience to know how to fire your artillery peice - just training (nigeria has very little)

7 Killer blows to your entire post.

NEXT!

agaugust:
SANDF mechanized division is a conventional, uniformed, identifiable army that can be easily targeted.

It would be time to test our world respected 660 gun massive artillery fire-power on your heads without restraint, free for all fight !

.

Nigeria only has 364 feild guns - so yet again you have lied to us.

All of which are outranged and outgunned by our 115 guns

All that will be left of youru 364 guns is smoldering ash and the bones of gunners.

lezz:
you mean like your defence ministry worry about the rot and lack of funds in your military ?

Your lack of personel and high number of ineligible army forces. If your neighbours have territorial ambition, sa would be in trouble. That was a report from your defence ministry.

No - that was the projection of what would happen if we did not adress the current situation.

And that was not a report from an official source - it was an opinion piece

The nearest country that would even stand a chance against us is Angola. Everyone else would be target practice

Henry120:
He's sympathetic to the terrorists.

I am sympathetic to law and order, to justice and to a civilized manner of conducting war

All you are doing is fuelling the insurgency

But go ahead, continue your war-crimes. Hitler and Einsatzgruppen would be proud

EVarn:
http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/military-moves-to-attack-sambisa/194116/

in a spectacular turn of events,the nigerian military is moving to launch a massive blitz on sambisa forest-the unofficial headquaters of boko haram.it was reported that convoys of hundreds of APCs and military tanks were seen in borno moving towards the direction of the dreaded sambisa forest,carrying thousands of troops and military equippment.the convoy movement was said to have caused a stand-still traffick in borno for hours.though military operatives failed to comment on the new development,it was reported that several military aircrafts were already ready for deployment from their enclaves,"the NA has moved to conduct a air and land assault on sambisa forest, we do not care what amnesty international and political parties say,we will mobilize all force to crush boko haram.it doesnt matter if you are suspected to harbor terrorists or sponsor them,if caught,you'll be gone in minutes" an official said.

The Nigerian army admits to genocide and war crimes.

Nice

Henry120:
No need to. Patches689 knows he's a "clown".

The irony of this post

This thread needs more F-35

Centrifude:
Dude I know exactly what a BluePrint is, its a fact they tried to copy it.
You keep on saying that its completely based on the F-35 but its not a copy, which is completely contradictory.

Yes they stole data but you have to be insane to believe that the U.S would keep all their sensitive data in one Data Base, some are kept at the Factories.

And well dude your first statement was you "Wonder how the J-31 would stack up against the F-35 and Rafael"
But since no one knows the actual specs of the J-31 and its still the prototype the only way a person could answer you question was to speculate, and give our opinions based on nothing else but visual analysis, so if we say the J-31 is sh*t you can't really say we're wrong because you don't know the actual specs either

#wrecked

10/10 post