₦airaland Forum

Henry120:
The National Secretary of the SANDU confirms you ran away like the cowards you are.

Really?

Cite him


The only cowards here is the 20 000 Nigerian soldiers who run away from 10 000 Bh - givING them a Kingdom the size of Belgium!!!

agaugust:
LOL....yet they claimed 250 SANDF defeated 2,500 Seleka rebels.....that was a big lie, Sudan has proved them to be frauds.

SANDF surrendered in Bangui, I guess they even paid cash bribe to Seleka to buy their freedom to Bangui airport for French army protection.

The SANDF woman captured and released unharmed on the road by Seleka during the battle was carrying lots of army cash and was not hurt by Seleka, for free? No, SANDF bribed Seleka like their ANC bribed FIFA to host world cup.

Bantu cowards for life !
.

What is 800 divided by 3?

Who said we surrendered in Bangui?

Nigerians are grasping at straws to look for insults - it takes their minds off the pathetic state of their military

Henry120:
800 vs 500 in favour of the SANDF, yet it was the SANDF, not the Sudanese who were poping in their pants.

Henry 120 confirmed forbidding unable to do basic arithmetic

800 divided by 3 is??

agaugust:
3 million British and French troops lost the whole nation of France to Germany in 1940, but came back to retake France in 1944.

The final end of any war is all that matters....who won North East war at the end ? Nigerian army won !

SADF failed to win in Angola after almost 20 years of war.

Are there any Cuban troops in angola?

Did south Africa lose a battle?

Yep - we won

bidexiii:
These is Your chadian forces tht has proven/mastered wheeled vehicles in desert terrains ?
Have said modern tracked vehicles comes with a powerfull turbo engine, so that it will lift its weight .
Track vehicles are designed for all terrain enviroment and are more rugged and even mobile !

Tracked vehicles are slower, require more fuel and logistics in general and are harder to fix when they break down.

Wheels = High mobility

Tracks = Low mobility

Thats why the Americans started building Stryker Brigades and why practically all new IFV's are wheeled (Except for countries like Isreal or Germany who have unique needs)

agaugust:
There are mud plains in northern Nigeria and southern Chad. Paper maps are deceptive for vegetation analysis.

Your army will get stuck unless you do assault course terrain analysis for your AOR by scout/recce before you launch out for ops in real war.

You think this nonsense is impressive?

You think this nonsense is related to my post?

Henry120:
[s]The Apartheid army that kept 90% of the population caged[/s].

And this is connected to my point how?

Read my comment
Understand my comment
Respond accordingly

Henry120:
[s]
NAF has 5 C-130s operational. Photos have been posted multiple times here.

All NAF's G-222 are operational.

Beechcraft for light transport are different from beechcraft used for surveillance. Again this has been proven multiple times.


NAF also has Cessna ISR air-crafts.

SAAF flew 18000 hours with virtually all of those been flown by VIP.


NAF has flown over 7000 sorties in the last 8 months.


The SAAF has virtually no combat experience. P.W botha's Apartheid army is not the SANDF. This is not the SANDF.



The SANDF is a classical joke, filled with inept, incompetent, poorly trained and poorly resourced men.


A befitting military well suited for a 3rd world Country like South-Africa.[/s]

NAF has only got 3 refurbished and operational C-130's - proven beyond a doubt

Citation that the G222's are operational

Citation that virtually all 18 000 hours were for VIP transports - we budgeted for 20 000, meaning that your allegation that the VIP fleet used up all the flight hours is obviously wrong

Citation for NAF flight hours.

SAAF has combat experience, SANDF is the SADF and the SADF is the UDF.

You are making lots of statements, but I am not seeing any evidence to corroborate it.

I guess this is just another classic post from Henery-Because I Say So -120


Reminder: [size=16pt]Nigeria’s military has been in decline for the past 16 years,[/size] says J. Peter Pham, director of the Africa Center at the Washington D.C.

agaugust:
NAF has both training and war experience. SAAF has only basic training but then lack flight hours of qualification for combat
.

Citation needed.

NAF's inability to get planes into the air is well documented.

SAAF flew 18 000 hours last year - and took part in advanced training exercises.

How many hours has NAF flown? What advanced exercises have you done?

agaugust:
Say please Baaas
.

If you are accusing me of fraud


Prove it by naming the ATR42 radar and posting its range.

agaugust:
You used ATR-72 citation to back up ATR-42 radar claims, you think we are fools here?

Is F-15 jet = F-35 jet ?

Thief, Fraud
.

And the citation about the ATOS system?

agaugust:
Citation needed now!

Prove you have enough

agaugust:
Post citation to prove it affects F-7 jet, direct and specific citation.

F-7 jet maintenance technology has been transferred to NAF by PAF and we train together for air to air combat drills.

NAF F-7 jet arrived a year after your source, so show us source to prove that your old story also extends to new aircraft that was not in service at the time of writing the report, show us proof, your personal opinion is useless on nairaland, I cannot quote your bedroom ideas in a project or academic thesis.

Provide a clear source to prove your fairy tale
.

If it is a problem in your airforce

Then it will affect everything

The fact that your F-7's crash suggests it to be true

Now, prove you have more than 3 pilots

agaugust:
Only tracks can go through certain types of thick wet mud and loose dry sand terrain. Experienced armies that fight outside dry land know that.

which is why the vast majority of armored vehicals bought by the Nigerian military during the war have been wheeled

agaugust:
Feel free to provide clear evidence that NAF has ever had shortage of F-7 pilots.....you made the allegation first, so prove it first
.

You made the allegation that we have 9 pilots first, so prove it first.

#TheShoeIsOnTheOtherFoot

stillchris:
Dude. Nigeria is not south Africa

Different climate

Different environment

And different military requirements

What Nigeria acquires is not for SANDF.

There are areas in the sambisa forest that are marshy and not accessible to wheeled vehicles. So our requirements are diverse.

I told you to stop acting like you know stuff cos most times you come off sounding ignorant.

Your knowledge seems to be confined to south African affairs

About 2/3 of Nigeria looks like perfect country for wheeled operations

Henry120:
You are poorly informed, i'm not going to have this debate with you.

I am not inviting you to debate.

I am simply informing you that you should not pose opinion as fact.

bidexiii:
Wheeled vehicles are light and they possess mobility yet they av limited in desert area the tyres get inmersed in desert dunes and they are soft targets to disable them
Wheeled vehicles do not dare thick swampy or thick forest terrain !

Tracked vehicles are heavy but it all about the design they av powefull engines to propelles them like the T-90, they cll it the flying tank, the ahbrams is heavy yet in desert area wheeled vehicles are no match to them !
In thick vegetation they crush every thing on there part ! Except for some western tanks/vehicles that can't swim and that's why I like russian technology there tracked vehicles r no match come desert or thick vegetation !

I think its safe to say that the Chadians have proven that wheeled vehicles are perfect for the desert (Same with the SAS in WW2)

I agree, in swamps or jungles tracked vehicals are at a disadvantage - but then again, any vehical will be (tanks werent too popular withe the Americans or NVA during veitnam)

Wheeled vehicles are the way forward, speed, mobility and a small logistical trail (due to their high range) makes them amazing vehicals for operations in about 60% of the African battlespace

However, IMO, it is all about balance. Tracked vehicles are inevitable and wheeled vehicals are essential, so the balance struck is based on the geography you expect to operate in - and internal op's in Nigeria would largely be suited to wheeled vehicals.

Henry120:
SAAF has limited combat experience, with it's only engagement been a joint operation with Ukrainian legacy hinds against poorly armed rebels.

ORLY?

"The NAF has limited combat experience, its only engagements being against poorly armed rebels"

In reality, the SAAF has engaged enemy fighter jets and advanced enemy SAM systems - and you have not.

Henry120:
[s]You've gone senile.

Transport NAF : 5 operational C-130's of a fleet of 8.

NAF also fields 6 operational G-222 and 2 Boeing 737 Transport planes.


Surveillance NAF operates

ATR-42s = 2
Beechcraft = 3
CH-3A. = 9
Diamond Surveillance planes
Gulma Drones


SAAF has limited combat experience, with it's only engagement been a joint operation with Ukrainian legacy hinds against poorly armed rebels.

The Apartheid military is not the SANDF.

You are naive, I picked out the specification I needed to make my comparison.

Operational, the NAF has and continues to log more hours than the SAAF.


The South-African Air Force is a joke, and no where near the achievements of the mighty NAF.[/s]

Nigeria has only 3 operational C-130's - proven with citations

Citation needed for 6 operational G-222's

Beechcraft are VIP transports
SANDF has drones as well

SAAF flew 18 000 hours last year - citation please for hours flown by NAF

And, FYI, operational experience is irrelevant if you train properly

And, FYI, SAAF has fought a conventional war in the air and shot down enemy fighters - NAF has never done this (So who has more experience?)

Dude, your airforce is a joke that is befitting of your nations status as a nearly-failed state

Henry120:
The JF-17 block II is ahead of the Gripen C/D, it is the block I that is considered to be similar to the Gripen in characteristics. Their specs are widely available and has been posted multiple times in the other thread.


I'm not even going to have this debate with you.

Look, you can think whatever you want, if you want to think that the JF-17 is on par with the Gripen or that the Block 2 is better than the Gripen - you can go ahead and think that.

What is important here is that you say "I think it is simular to the Gripen" or "I think the JF-17 block II is ahead of the Gripen C/D"

It is not a fact, it is your opinion

africaken:
there are so many of this tracked vehicle which the former soviet army had amassed and now russia and former east block countries are refurbishing them and selling at a throwaway prices

Throwaway prices for equipment worthy of being thrown away.

Buying yesterdays equipment (even if refurbished) for todays wars is not how you build an army of the future.

China offers a plethora of modern wheeled and tracked vehicals that are offered at very affordable prices.

IMO (as I have said many times), nigeria should get a brigades worth of ZBD2000's for the delta or expeditionary operations and then order the ZBL-09 as the standard IFV of the Nigerian military.

ZBL-09 is in my mind the only modern peice of Chinese equipment that is a direct and clear match for western equipment, and it is significantly cheaper

Modern, capable, cheap and designed to be (relatively) low maintenance - its the future i tell you!

bidexiii:
I don't know why african armies still buy tracked armored vehicles ? If I get u right !

But you know a tracked armored vehicle as a greater advantage than wheeled armored vehicle . For wheeled vehicles there tyres are always a soft spot and tracked vehicles are rugged come desert or forest terrain as compared to wheeled vehicles !

Tracked vehicals lack mobility and are heavy on logistics.

Africa has two things: space and a lack of infrastructure.

If you can exploit the space, and are not held back by the lack of infrastructure you will be at a massive operational advantage.

bidexiii:
#Nigeria Army officers assessing the #Pakistan Heavy
Industries Taxila Dragoon Armoured Security Vehicle for
PKOs &IS pic.twitter.com/fDkaRyFNbq

"its totally not a copy of Pic related, we promise!!"

Jokes aside, if it is anything like the Gage Commando it is a very good possibility.

Light, well protected, well armed and mobile as hell... just the thing that is needed in Africa

denisfidha:
I continued to look for African countries who are in the process of acqiring new fighters for replacements and I landed on this janes article About the gripen, Apparently , Kenya,Namibia,Botswana all have shown some interests in the C/D http://www.janes.com/article/52239/paris-air-show-2015-saab-sees-continued-future-for-gripen-c-d-combat-aircraft

SADAC aligned nations operating the same fighter makes sense.

Training, maintenance and weapons development can all be done right next door in South Africa and SAABs plans for a fighter school are still floating around (Thailand was a fail)

Henry120:
It isn't cheap, it costs 60 million a pop. At that price it is more expensive than a J-10B, SU-30MKI, MIG-35. Fighters that a way more capable than the Gripen C/D.

The JF-17 and Gripen are very similar fighters in general characteristics. It is considered the direct competition of the Gripen.

1. Yes, Gripen has a high unit cost. But compared to Western fighters of its age and role, it is cheap.
1a. It is also the cheapest of all Western fighters to operate and maintain with "wet" costs coming to $5000 per flight hour
2. The JF-17 is no where near the Gripen, its on par with the F16 Block 40.
3. The JF-17 is, in no way shape or form, considered to be direct competition with the Gripen

[size=20pt]CONFIRMED BY MILITARY ANALYSTS: NIGERIAN MILITARY IN A STATE OF DECLINE FOR 16 YEARS!![/size]


hahahahahahahah.... all this time they have been saying the SANDF is in decline... yet their own military has been in decline for 16 years!

DictatorZAR:

---

All this bullsh@it yet independent auditors gave SANDF a clean bill of health.

Nigerians dont understand audits... their government departments dont have to be audited!!

[size=20pt]Nigerians point one finger at the SANDF and four of their own fingers point back at them!![/size]


However, much of that money has allegedly fuelled corruption or been siphoned off to enrich regional governments.

This has led to an under resourced military, short of guns and ammunition.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2015/03/corruption-blights-nigerian-army-fight-rebels-150320160800536.html


The failure of the state security agencies – the military, police, secret police – to confront this violence is sometimes attributed to incapacity. But many say deep corruption prevents the military from containing the insurgencies.

In 2010, the government awarded a $470m (£274m) contract for security across the capital. However, few of the hundreds of cameras installed function, yet the work was paid for and signed off.

In the huge military operation in the north east, where Boko Haram operates, which has been in place since a state of emergency was imposed in 2013, there are complaints by army members. These soldiers have often claimed that their budgeted allowance for dangerous field duties are shaved off by commanders, leaving them with less than 50% in some cases.

Yet, the reality is that troops endure horrific conditions – t[b]hey often lack tents or sleeping bags, many must scavenge for firewood to cook and they live a destitute life – hardly the motivation or replenishment required to fight a violent and constant aggressor.[/b]
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2014/jul/11/boko-haram-nigeria-violence-corruption-security


Nigeria's once vaunted military has been hollowed out by corruption, bad leadership, and insufficient training, leaving it vulnerable to Boko Haram's advance


[size=15pt]Nigeria’s military has been in decline for the past 16 years,[/size] says J. Peter Pham, director of the Africa Center at the Washington D.C.- based Atlantic Council, ever since the country moved from a military dictatorship to a democracy in 1999. The intervening years have seen the country’s armed forces hollowed out by a combination of poor leadership, graft, misdirected staff training and a succession of civilian governments so worried about another coup that they have starved the armed forces of key resources.

Ammunition and arms are budgeted and paid for, but they don’t always reach the front lines, either because they are diverted to the black market, or because the money actually went into a procurer’s pocket. Disgruntled soldiers recently spoke to CNN, describing how they are sent out to fight militants armed with RPGs while they only have dozens of bullets each. The soldiers complained that they had to cover medical expenses for wounds received in battle, and that the spouses of dead soldiers were only granted a minimal stipend
http://time.com/3702849/nigerias-army-boko-haram/


What a truly pathetic military

Henry120:
[s]Uselessness of the SANDF, series continues.



[b]The South African National Defence Union (Sandu) says it is demoralising for soldiers to serve in the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) when senior officials are getting away with corruption and incompetence and are receiving political protection and appointments.

Pikkie Greeff, Sandu National Secretary, made the comments at a recent Transparency International Defence Anti-Corruption in South Africa Civil Society Workshop in Johannesburg.

Greeff gave several examples of corruption in the SANDF, such as a commander in Polokwane being moved from one post to another due to procurement irregularities at the base involving things like rations, where he would use his friends to buy items like milk at prices inflated by 50%. Instead of this person being prosecuted in a military court he was simply moved to another position due to political cover, Greeff said.

In another instance, Greeff said it was alleged that a military official in Port Elizabeth was calling up reserve members for a fee and an officer commanding a base in the North West province was placed under suspension after allegations of fraud and tender rigging because he himself pointed out procurement regularities in the South African Army.

Greeff said that an Air Force general has been suspended with full pay for nine years because of sexual misconduct allegations after criticising the 1998 arms deal. He said the general has exceptional expertise regarding avionics but is sitting at home not being utilised due to ulterior motives.

Other examples of corruption in the SANDF pointed out by Greeff include the South African Air Force leasing aircraft from a husband and wife owned company that did not own any aircraft, resulting in troops being stranded when there were problems with the aircraft chartered by these middlemen; and the awarding of contracts that do not go out to tender because they are under a certain amount.

Greeff said that not all corruption was financial – a lot of it was political, with officials being protected due to their political connections, and appointments being made based on political grounds and not merit. For example, a senior warrant officer who was on the receiving end of a rant which included shouting and spitting by the current Director: Force Preparation of the SA Army, Brigadier General Nontobeka Mpaxa, was recently awarded damages of R330 000 by court but has not been disciplined for misconduct. Greeff alleges the same general was caught for drunken driving in Kimberly but the docket disappeared from the court.

Another example of what Greeff calls high ranking cover due to previous political connections involves the crash of a C-47 Dakota in the Drakensberg in late 2012. He said the preliminary accident report shows that the pilots were forced to fly in poor weather even after they protested against it and that the officials who ordered the flight were not court martialled as they should have been.

A similar scenario occurred after the Battle of Bangui in the Central African Republic (CAR) when officials responsible for intelligence failures and leaders on the ground who ran away from the fight were not prosecuted.

The Guptagate saga was another example highlighted by Sandu, where blame was shifted to two middle ranking officers who were suspended and found guilty but had charges dropped “in the face of overwhelming evidence that Bruce Koloane misled the entire military into allowing the [Gupta] plane to land. If an ordinary person misled an entire defence force…he would probably be trialled for treason. This person got promoted to an ambassador’s position. This sends a message to soldiers on the ground and to middle ranking officers as well. Why go to the trouble of exposing corruption if you can somehow benefit from it if you know the right people. That’s the spirit that has taken hold of the defence force,” Greeff said.

He pointed out that none of the above examples have resulted in prosecutions or convictions, something made worse by the fact that the military courts have come to a grinding halt over the last three month because someone failed to sign the appointment of judges to the bench. Greeff said that in 2014 the military courts were held up for a month because of the same issue.

The Sandu secretary said that no-one is willing to put their careers on the line by blowing the whistle or even disobey senseless or illegal orders. He said a huge part of the problem is that political influence has taken over in the defence force with decisions taken on the basis of former political affiliation and that people with higher political rank override those with higher military rank in the SANDF. “It is very demoralising for a solider to serve in a defence force where these things are going on,” he said.

Greeff was of the opinion that probably the only thing that will solve these issues is time as personnel keep moving through ranks and the SANDF has already seen a huge exodus of politically affiliated appointees due to age and attrition.[/b][/s]

As apposed to the Nigerian military where Junior officers are courtmartialed and executed to cover up the failures of Senior Officers?

Where corruption is BLATANT and deep reaching?

Get a grip

EVarn:
UN and AU wouldnt dare launch a 'law-enforcement' military intervention in Sudan for fear of provoking the combine military might of the Arab league of nations.lol,AU does not even have a continental military force!
If SA had arrested Bashir....well,lets just say that your troops in sudan would have been massacred and hung on the streets of khartoum to dry,and there would have been nothing anybody could do about it,not even the UNSC.

*rolls eyes*

You have the geopolitical insight of a rotten cassava

Henry120:
Truly, there actually is nothing to be jealous of the SAAF. Your A109s are mostly grounded than in the air, you fly world war II aircraft for MP duties, you have a Gripen pilot shortage, at-least 12 Gripens are always in storage( or what ever the name you currently have for it), your half-french Helicopter is obsolete, you cannot afford aviation fuel, you SAAF is broke, the SAAF only has 3 operational C-130s, experienced pilots have quit the service because of forced quota, the SAAF is pitifully inexperienced, the SAAF demands it's dead pilot pay for his service flight suit.

Lets wreck this point by point:

1. A109's mostly grounded: They have been grounded twice in 15 years of service, once due to a crash and another time due to poor administration

2. WW2 MPA's: Being replaced, unlike Nigeria, we dont have pirate infested waters, so it is a low priority

3. Gripen pilot shortage: 12 Gripen operational in 2013, more pilots have been trained since then - we are pulling our squadrons up to strength slowly but surely. Its not a shortage when our 12 Gripen can defeat any airforce in our region.

4. Rooivalk is obsolete - and yet, as we proved many times, it is more advanced than anything you have.

5. Lack of aviation fuel: 20 000 hours budgeted for, 18 000 hours used = fuel surplus

6. 3 Operational C-130's: No, 5 operational C-130's at any one time, out of a group of 9

7. Pilots quit because of quota: Citation needed

8. Inexperience: Experience is irrelevant when you are properly trained.

9. Pilots flight suit: SAAF is demanding that its property be returned.


But, now lets talk about the nigerian airfocre:

[size=13pt]1. The majority of your aircraft are grounded due to a lack of maintenance
2. 5 of your jets have crashed in the last decade - speaks of poorly trained pilots and terrible maintenance
3. You have a massive fleet of grounded aircraft (over 100 aircraft are grounded)
4. You dont have the skills, money or maintenance cycles to keep your Isrealy drones in the sky
5. Your F-7's are obsolete - and you only have 3 pilots
5a. your Alpha jets are obsolete
5b. your MB-339's are obsolete
5c. your L-39s are obsolete
6. You have a crippling shortage of helicopter transports
7. You have no mobile radar systems
8. You have no data-link, only a handful of data-link capable platforms, none of which are combat aircraft
9. The equipment you do buy is all second hand junk left over from the cold war.
10. Nigeria does not conduct regular advanced training exercises, indeed, the entire Nigerian military has no major yearly training exercises
11. Nigeria is incapable adding any indigenous content to its systems
12. Nigeria is unable to launch PGM's from any of its combat orientated platforms - and you have allready crashed one of the only platforms that can launch PGMs
13. Nigeria's missile arsenal is composed of ancient systems[/size]

Henry, you have the airforce that befits such a poorly developed and unstable country

SAAF, on the other hand, is an advanced 21st century platform.

These are simple facts