₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
[s]I am not majoring on PAF Vs RAF, it's SAAF Vs NAF.

There is ZO SINGLE official report from Lion Effort about SAAF shooting down anybody.

You are telling tales cooked up by South Africans who love to steal glory all over the world by saying they killed 1,000 Seleka rebels, yet we cannot find one single dead body among the 1,000 dead.....did your troops eat those corpses ?

Plus, how does your BVR missile claim come up? Nobody fired any missile in Lion Effort, you all had same Gripen with same radar and avionics, now you see why I said it's all a lie, you excused SAAF performance of 1 aircraft 'loss' to lack of BVR missile when nobody used any missile [/s]
.

Come with facts or dont come at all

agaugust:
[s]Too many data lies and fraud from that country.

Best universities in Africa, yet 2nd bottom level brains in the world.

80% literacy, yet the 45 million blacks have a majority that never went to school and speak Zulu/Xhosa with near ZERO English.

Huge power prodcution, yet imports electricity from Mozambique and does massive load shedding, burns 1 million candeles per night in the cities, and 15 million people who have NEVER seen electricity in their life time up till 2015 today !

They won bid for World Cup 2010 but axctually payed bribe to get it, not merit.

All nice looking data and rankings of South Africa are very doubtful and highly questionable, this country manufactures lies and spreads it worldwide, everyday every hour ![/s]
.

South Africa produces 257.9 b/kwh (17th in the world)

Nigeria produces 24 b/kwh (67th in the world)
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=79&t=100

South Africa produces 100X the electricity Nigeria does.

The two new power stations we are building equal your entire national power grid

agaugust:
NAF are great low level fliers, we do lots of air to ground attack in the last 20 years non-stop wars, real wars.

F-7 did much low level flying in Boko Haram war, using its cannon.

Nigeria has AWACS aircraft with 407 km range, if SAAF flies low, means you enter the crocodile's mouth, ATR-42 will send F-7 jets to a position behind the Gripen.....NAF has AWACS advantage over SAAF
.

Augustus thinks that flying low level attack runs on poorly armed enemies is the same as low level flying in a contested airspace

Nigeria has no AWACS

agaugust:
[s] 1. Citation needed for A-Darter 20 km range

2. 40g turn for PL-9C plus a 90% kill probability with only one shot, you need a legion of angels to help you escape that NAF PL-9C missile

3. SAAF is only good in @THIZA's photos, ZERO training, ZERO experience, ZERO BVR capability. You failed to qualify for 2015 Lion Effort

Citation needed for A-Darter 20 km range[/s]

Come with a valid point and I shall engage you in discussion

agaugust:
Argentina does not need credit, they are said to have very huge debt, but with $34 billion cash reserves in dollars, they can pull $ 4 billion and arm up for any British threat. Good defense does not come cheap, you pay the price.

$1 billion will give Argentina 15 units of Su-30 MK2 Flankers with 400 km range radar, 70 km range stealth aircraft detector TV camera's and 150 km range BVR air to air missiles.

$1 billion will buy then 10 units of J-20 Stealth fighter.

The aircraft fleet will also have hypersonic speed anti-ship/aircraft carrier killer missiles.

$2 billion will buy 3 units of Type 054B Destroyer warships with 200 km range anti-ship missiles and 4 units of Song class submarines with heavy torpedoes.

Also the naval fund will cover the cost of 2 units of latest Chinese AWACS and MPA/ASW aircraft.

Thus with $4 billion, Argentina will be the most powerful country in the whole continents of North and South America next in power to USA.

Britain will then consider a peaceful/negotiated hand over of Falkland Island if you ask me.

hahahaha

Argentina can spend all that money

And two Type 45 destroyers a couple of Astute-class subs and a squadron of Typhoons (and soon F35's) and the Argies wont stand a chance

Henry120:
I still seriously doubt South-Africa produces more power than Nigeria.

Even if it does, not by a wide margin.

South Africa produces 257.9 b/kwh (17th in the world)

Nigeria produces 24 b/kwh (67th in the world)
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=79&t=100

South Africa produces 100X the electricity Nigeria does.

The two new power stations we are building equal your entire national power grid

Henry120:
South-Africa is a 3rd world country. Man even you can't be this delusional. I mean you live in the most un-equal country in the world, with one of the highest poverty/unemployment rates in Africa.

South-Africa's Ginicoefficient is 65%, with 100% been perfect inequality.

South-Africa's GDP per capita is $6,000, however looking at the numbers individually, South-African whites have a GDP per capita of $30,000 while Asians have a GDP per capita of $21,000.

What is the GDP per capita of Black's which make up 85-90% of the population?


I do hope for your sake, you don't actually believe your own lies.

1. South Africa is a NIC - just google it

2. As usual Henry120 tries to racialize the issue

And in terms of poverty and unemployment,

We have 9.4% of our population living in poverty
http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/ZAF

with 26% unemployment
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/south-africa/unemployment-rate

While Nigeria has 62% of its population living in poverty
http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/NGA

And an unemployment rate of 24%
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/nigeria/unemployment-rate

Thus, not only do we have lower levels of poverty, there are more allmost more unemployed Nigerians than there are South Africans

lezz:
Ethiopia grows 10% GDP at the moment. South Africa hardly even see 2% growth. America is doing fine in recovery- very fine.

Have you read CNN's analysis of Greece's economic woes? One of the factor is population. At 11 million analyst says Greece is going to need lots of help to survive.

South Africa bursted in 2008 till date. And the best it can hope for is just a stable growth. No more surprise indices or fast growth.

I though south Africa's power isn't bad and there is only blackout in 2 hours a day like you people said.

But you have suddenly admitted it bad enough to cripple your economy.

OK, keep going in circles

Lol - when I say America i dont mean their domestic issues, I mean quantitative easing... get on my level

Stable growth is just fine and acceptable when you are a NIC... only developing countries can acheive double digit growth

Eskom issues are a hinderance on the economy no doubt about it. We are still the biggest power generator and consumer on the continent though

lezz:
[s][/s] No matter how hard you try, you just can't ignore my swiping invectives against south Africa.

After all your emotional summations, who is Africa's largest economy? The answer remains Nigeria.

Who got displaced ? South Africa. Our economy is almost twice yours now with the stagnant growth SA suffers.

However way you chose to coin BRIC, south Africa was never there. China invited you as a consolation for denying de larma visa. Period.

Your G20 is an inclusive invite for representing Africa in order to give the organisation a global feel. Now that you have lost all criteria , doubts are already expressed globally about your legitimacy there. South Africa is as dead as last Christmas!


Patrick, stop showcasing your poor logic, how is south Africa better to live in when all your companies are scurrying to Nigeria as economic asylum seekers? When these companies make more money in Nigeria than they do in their own country?

When south Africa is one of the world's most unequal countries .

When 80% blacks still haven't crossed the poverty line.

When I am more likely to die from HIV or gun related murder.

Or being attacked by a primitive, prempdial Zulus for being a foreigner working hard.

When only 8% of the population have access to the land, resources and economy. How is south Africa better ?

GPI ranks you 122nd worst place to live in on earth. Despite no boko haram. south Africa produce 89 murders per day!!! Not even Syria plus Afghanistan together has those figures.

Show me a Zulu and I shall show you a 21st primate

Nigeria rains Africa's giant in economy
Entertainment
Religion/spirituality
Entrepreneurs
People
Internet
Your complex economy didn't save you from being flushed off the top spot like faeces in a sewage pipe. Just like it didn't save Japan from China's dominance.

We have more billionaires than you do. We have more internet Penetration than you do. Do you want us to bleep you in every single human development before you own up?

Pretoria has signaled her willingness to be our bride in Africa. Your opinion on Nairaland can't change anything

Go to bed before you get a seizure.

Insults without basis are invalid

agaugust:
A-Darter range is 19 km confirmed by DENEL, so stop lying.

100g turns when the enemy is firing his own missile from over 20 km away in a no escape zone, 100g turn is useless for your dead pilot.

After lion effort, SAAF Gripens no longer fly 150 hours a year, and half your fleet went into frozen cold storage, SAAF declined in capability
.

1. 20km
2. 100g means that there is no chance of your pilot evading the missile, only 20g turns for your missile means we can escape. It also means we can engage off-bore while you cannot
3. Completely and utterly false, disproven many times

agaugust:
Population does not give GDP, Ethiopia has a far bigger population than South Africa, yet they have a much smaller GDP

Stop typing large size fonts when you say stupiiid things .

Someone doesnt understand basic economics

agaugust:
Rhodesian conversions came before both.

What Rhodesian conversions?

Henry240:
When was your Project Biro conceived?


Well, i'm not South-African, how do you expect me to know when Mandela took office. My point is, he was President when Project Biro began.

So... its true because you say so?

lezz:
I have counted 10 South Africans so far squatting here trying so hard to tell Nigerians you're the best.



Nigeria remains the true yardstick by which south African gauge their national development and have a sense of worth.

Correct, and we have exceeded it dramatically

lezz:
[s]I exposed you for the fraud you are and you swiftly change tactics like a cheap, filthy courtèsãn.

You claimed south Africa was Africa's number tourist destination. I proved you a lier and a desperate fraud. Now let's do the math of all your claims.

1) BRIC: you were NEVER a part of this club. China only invited you in. You actually contributeJust 2% of BRIC's GDP . you make the group actually weaker. Most international political observers still refer to it as BRIC and not BRICS. Your own press actually confessed south Africa is more a briquette than a bric. Bwahahaha. O'Neil, the internationally renowned economist who coined BRIC never included South Africa.

2) G20, you aren't in the world's top 25 economies. So what's south Africa doing in this group? Actually, a group of sympathetic ideologist who are quite benevolent to the African course thought it prudent that one country from Africa should be included, not out of merit or economic viability or infrastructural compatibility but rather to make it more representative of the world. . South Africa was futunate at the time (2010?) to be the number economy of Africa. It's more like the UN power houses deciding to cut some slacks to less powerful countries by appointing them into non permanent security seats. Bwahajahaja.

Well, Nigeria has been the boss now. And you're going down. From having -by far- the largest economy on the continent, by being the 5th largest contributor to the UN peace keeping force in the world. By having a youthful population of more than 60% around 18 years of age and making 1/5th of Africa's population with a giant middle class and strong entrepreneurial citizens, we remain Africa's true representative.
South Africa is already jittery asking for Africa to have two permanent security members. Why? Because Pretoria knows she will lose out with only one slot.


Your companies in Nigeria only makes you weaker diplomatically between us. Where is your common sense , since you lack sociopolitical one? We supply you oil. Why do you think Pretoria always buckle when Abuja is angry? ask China and Russia.

By 2030, Nigeria is projected internationally to be the 15th biggest economy of the world. Now scratch your Zulu head in wonderment. All the big populated countries account for 70% of the world's GDP.
We are just taking out rightful place amongst the committee of nations.

Why do you think S.A is on the decline rapidly. The show is over for you. With no insurgency or civil disturbances in South Africa, Forbes has ranked South Africa the 122nd safest place to live.

Now tell me, what's my name?[/s]

A look, another post composed of made up figures and empty logic

Coming from the man who didnt understand that BRICS (the economic model) and BRICS (the political assosiation) are not the same thing

The same man who also forgot that South Africa is G20 and that Nigeria is not

And the same man who ran away when I showed him (with citations) that South Africa is 55X better to live in than Nigeria

Your country is an undeveloped and unstable sh1thole, it rankes as one of the most failed states on the PLANET, it is ruled by an ULTRA-corrupt elite, all your developmental indices lag massively behind ours, your economy is no where near as advanced or as diverse, you dont have our political connections or might, your coastline is a pirate-infested ecological disaster zone, your biggest city a fvcking nightmare, your interior is rife with poorly educated peasants shooting each other over who's cow drank in who's well, whilst your north is the home of an insurgency that will not end.

[size=15pt]You brag about Nigeria being the biggest... and this is true... it is africa's giant... but the giant has down syndrome [/size]

[size=15pt]Reminder: With only 30% of Nigeria's population, we have 70% of her GDP[/size]

Henry240:
So tell us, when Project Biro was conceived?

Hint: Mandela was still President.

Why dont you tell us?

Henry240:
1993 to this time, how many years is that?

Who says its been running since then?

Henry240:
so your Project Biro has 4 more years to go. "23 + 4 years?"........ 27years for 3 OPV, pathetic!

Problem is, its not a 27 year old project

agaugust:
Nothing is happening dude, your navy keeps jumping from one option to another like confused buyers.

When you make a final choice, name the ship, name the manufacturer, evaluate the platform, and announce readiness to pay cost price with cash or bank loan approved, come back and talk to us.

Someone doesnt understand how tenders work

agaugust:
[s]Helmet mounted sight is useless against enemy jet you cannot see flying behind you, below you, above you, or 22 km away.

SAAF with 19 km range missiles has forced your pilots into close in combat WVR no escape zone. A 4,000 km/hr speed PL-9 missile needs just a few seconds to demolish a Gripen.

South African pilots have ZERO combat experience with Gripe jets and none of your pilots is combat qualified with standard flying hours, you lack both trainings s experience, SAAF is dead as an Egyptian mummy inside an ancient pyramid[/s]
.

A-darter has 20km range

A-darter can pull 100G turns - think of the implications

What evidence do you have to suggest that your claims are true? How did they lose their qualifications since young lion?

Henry240:
Finally Patches689 can wake up from his Gowind day dream.


On your Project Biro, deliveries are expected to commence in 4 - 5years time.

It is still a pipe dream!

I dont think you know what a "pipe dream" is.

Project Biro is a "certainty"

JF-17, ATAK, T80U, Tucano, SU30 etc etc are "pipe dreams"

Henry240:
Pakistani pilots are very well trained, Plus they fly very capable fighters.

Pakistani JF-17s would eat up SAAF Gripen, their F-16 Block 52s are an overkill. They are Eurofighter standard.

The sh1t you talk

Suddenly F16 Block 52s are Eurofighter standard

Henry240:
Patrick, you miss the point entirely. The Eurofighter would face off against proper capable fighters and Air Forces, SU-35s, Gripen NG, Rafales, J-10Bs, F-16 Block 60 or turkish F-16s which are United States Air Force's Common Configuration Implementation Program (CCIP) standard.

All of these fighters carry BVR missiles, state of the art missiles and they all have AWACS.

What possible advantage does the Eurofighter have against these fighters. Using BVR missiles is not a skill, they can all do it, neither are the Eurofighters coming up against Nigerian F-7 jets.

The fight simply isn't going to end one way.


There is no evidence at this point that the statement by the Pakistanis is false, or exaggerated. British MoD did not deny the claims.

British MoD dont run arond responding to every random claim

Your own article suggests that the claims may be exaggerated or simply false

Again, anecdotal fighter pilot talk

We see it all the time

agaugust:
[s]The professional researchers say Rhodesian conversions were built before the Leopard or Hyena. Fool, the Rhodesian conversions are several series of MRAP vehicles converted from normal vehicles, they have no specific names or date, except that historians discovered they predate EVERY other MRAP.

I will believe a world class professional research institute more than some deranged South Africans who think that 1 + 1 = 11

Zimbabwe is father of South Africa[/s]

The researchers are mistaken, FACT is that the Hyena entered service in 1972

Hyena: 1972
Leopard: 1974

Which came first?

agaugust:
[s]Yet when your SANDF men see Sudanese boys with AK-47, fear catches every South African soldier.

Your defence industry is yet to manufacture courage, even if produced under licence from Zimbabw[/s]
.

Not a valid response when your own men flee in womens clothing or into neighboring countries!!

Nigerians are well known for their cowardice

agaugust:
[s]Puts a stopper on the leaking mouth of South Africans who ridicule Pakistani air force.

Neutral reports say they are better than Indian pilots, while Indian army is better on land.

Only fools (Like Southies) laugh at those who are superior to them.

A Pakistani F-16 will eat all South African Gripens for dinner, guaranteed.

I think Argentina should just go for Su-30 MK2 Flankers or JF-17 Thunder block 3, and be assured they are ready for anything Britain could deploy if another Falkland war happens.

JF-17 Thunder Block 3 is more in my desire than block 2, maybe that is what NAF and some others are waiting for, the new engine block 3 with 4+ generation avionics.

Meanwhile, the world should give Pakistan credit for having the courage to build 4th gen jet fighter as a 3rd world country.[/s]

1. Article says that Pakistani stories are exaggerated or probably lies
2. Pakistan is a joke
3. Citation needed

agaugust:
[s]Mmmmmm !

Too many sources, combat pilots, etc have been confirming this fact that in close range combat WVR, everybody dies at same rate, and MiG-21 Bison of IAF could beat an F-15 of USAF, now F-16 of IAF beats RAF Typhoon.

The SAAF do not have qualified pilots, and Gripen cannot maneuver, the wings will break up and the Gripen will crash as proved by incidents.

I am sure NAF F-7 will beat SAAF Gripen with ease.[/s]

WVR combat has been changed by the A-darter

Gripen will have massive superiority - off-bore targeting with missiles that can pull 100G turns

Only a buffooon would argue that a 50 year old design could handle a modern one

agaugust:
[s]Nope, you are the one either mistaking or defrauding here.

The Canadian-American military research institute has used it's world class professionals to trace the origin of MRAP and the research result of professionals says Zimbabwe-Rhodesia invented MRAP for the rest of the world to copy.

It's not about date or model, it's about who built the first MRAP, the first series are called Rhodesian conversions, and there were several of them including some built on Volkswagen chassis, the historians say South African Hyena and others are similar to the Zimbabwean invented Rhodesian conversions, it NEVER said the first originals came from South Africa, it says research history by professionals discovered that Rhodesian conversions were the world's first mine resistant vehicles or MRAP origins.

It clearly says that the early South African MRAP was similar to those earlier Rhodesian conversion MRAP, means Zimbabwe started first, a father cannot be similar to his son (Resemble his son), it is the son that can be similar to his father (Resemble him).

South Africa's first MRAP the Hyena, is said to be similar to (Resemble) Rhodesian Conversion MRAPs of Zimbabwe.


"There were several early South African vehicles very similar to the Rhodesian conversions – Hyena , Wolf, and Ribbok (an antelope). Kwêvoël is Afrikaans for a turaco (Corythaixoides). Buffel is Afrikaans for the Cape buffalo (Syncerus Caffer)."

Tracing the Origins of 'Mine-' and 'Blast-Resistant' Vehicles

Stephen Priestley, Researcher, Canadian American Strategic Review (CASR)

http://www.casr.ca/id-blast-resistant-vehicles-2.htm

Zimbabwe is the father of South Africa, your MRAPs resemble their own...eat the humble pie baked in Zimbabwean kitchen [/s]
.

Hyena: 1972
Leopard: 1974

Which came first?

Henry240:
It turns out the Eurofighter typhoon was designed to overcome the fundamental flaws of the Tornado, it's poor Air-to-Air combat capabilities and agility issues.

The Eurofighter is built to be top down better than the Tornado or F-16 in a dog fight. Close in air-air combat is the fighters cathedral.

BVR capability is an overflogged, routinely abused term. How many BVR missiles does a fighter carry? If missiles are defeated by enemy counter measures, what happens next, the European pilots turns on his after-burners and bolts?


When facing an equally formidable foe like the Russians or Chinese who have the same sort of assets as you, what do you do?

Finally, the European Eurofighter that is supposed to be a dog fighter can't dogfight, simply makes no sense.

First off, you have to remember that these claims are unsubstantiated - multiple articals on the topic have alluded to the fact that they may be exaggerated or simply flat out lies.

Same thing happened at Red Flag where German Eurofighter pilots claimed to have thrashed the F22

Second, BVR is neither overflogged or abused, according to wiki (i know wiki is unreliable) one Eurofighter in air-to-air configuration can carry ~10 AAM's and the superior sensors and degree of development of modern missiles means that if you are going up against a flight of Eurofighters (or any other modern fighter) you are going to fly into a solid wall of AAM's looong before you get into WVR. It does not matter that some jets will evade the AAM's... if 2 out of 6 of the enemy jets make it to WVR with the Typhoons (of which there are 6) the fight is only going to end one way.

So yeah, it doesnt make sense, probably as these statements by the Pakistani's are either exaggerated or false

Henry240:
Yes i agree, the 3 screens are way better than having multiple tiny gauges and buttons spread across the cockpit, this isn't even in question. However, I do not believe the Gripen NG is the right way to go.

Despite the Screen, the Pilot still has to go in with an IPAD and a Notepad. How is that even remotely efficient?

The Pilot has to focus on the mission, and not multiple screens.

Notepad and ipad-thingy will be used at different times of the mission

He wont be dogfighting and flicking through the notes on his leg/ipad

Most pilots have those notepad things on their legs

and as you can see, some mock-ups of the Su35 cockpit have up to 5 screens

Its largely irrelevant though, because as I say, the pilot wont be operating all 5 at the same time.

Grip i feel is better as all the information is focused in a certain area

==========================================================================================
MORE ON PROJECT BIRO
==========================================================================================

The Gowind Class OPV does not meet state requirements and as such will not be marketed by Navantia/Paramount

Instead they (Paramount) are offering the BAM OPV (Avante 3000 class) and Austal Cape Class IPV

Source: Defenceweb

Im pretty sad about the Gowind class, I really like the look of them...

Henry240:
I got banned for posting this link. I hope I don't get banned again

http://www.asian-defence.net/2011/06/pakistani-f-16s-shoot-down-raf.html?m=1

turns out it was just down to pilot training:

Q: Any memorable experiences that you would like to share?
A: On one occasion – in one of the international Anatolian Eagles - PAF pilots were pitted against RAF Typhoons, a formidable aircraft. There were three set-ups and in all three, we shot down the Typhoons. The RAF pilots were shocked.

Q: Any particular reason for your success?

A: NATO pilots are not that proficient in close-in air-to-air combat. They are trained for BVR [Beyond Visual Range] engagements and their tactics are based on BVR engagements. These were close-in air combat exercises and we had the upper hand because close-in air combat is drilled into every PAF pilot and this is something we are very good at.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/08/eurofighter_beaten_by_f16/

People have to remeber that when you get these "shocking" results from exercises you need to go and look into it because sometimes the parameters of the exercise are such that one asset is heavily crippled - like in this instance, the Typhoon pilots werent allowed to engage in BVR as the exercise was a WVR only exercise

And finally, again, these claims are anecdotal