₦airaland Forum

lezz:
did the SAF actually ask a dead pilot to pay for his suit?

OMG... how dare the SAAF ask for its property back!!!

Henry120:
Are you also drunk like mikeczar, you can't see the infographic?

No you said your troopers have ground modules

What is its name?

That info graphic has nothing to do with the Nigerian army

Henry120:
There no evidence that the SANDF, who buy the way is so broke they are demanding a dead pilot to pay for his flight suit, has an operational Data link.



Nigeria has the most extensive Data link in SSA. The best part is, it is all operational.

A plethora of evidence has been provided regarding linkza

And it's extensive intergration

And it's operational Use

You, on the other hand, aren't even able to name your datalink - let alone provide evidence as to its intergration

Henry120:
Buhahahahahahahahahahaha

The SANDF is so Broke, they are trying to recover the cost of the Flight suit from the estate of the dead C-47 Dakota Pilot.




The Pilot of the Crashed A109 at the KNP was also passed despite the fact he was un-qualified!!


Cc: Agaugust, Patches689, Mikeczar, Jln115, Saengine

Citations needed

Article also does not say that he was un-qualified

Henry120:
You must be very stup1d, look at the photos of a military wide data-link. Point out were I was amiss?

You were amiss by saying you have our level of intergration

agaugust:
Nope, SANDF officer Andrewza told us here that the datalink is being done in phases due to financial constraints.

Show us proof that every aircraft, helicopter, ship, vehicle in SANDF has been connected and integrated into a central datalink system. Not just that they said it in a plan, show us that EVERY existing platform is fully integrated, show us proof now !
.

I will do it once you show us that all your assets are linked

agaugust:
The Americans and British couldn't find them either. NAF is equal to NATO in ISTAR.

South African Gripens are known to have only targeting pods for bombing....

# SHOW US SAAF GRIPEN JET RECCE PODS FOR ISTAR

....or else you have no ISTAR capable Gripen, it becomes like F-7 jet using normal radar in ground search mode !

Gripen has Recce pods and targeting pods

This has been confirmed multiple times

Henry120:
The Soldeir carries a portable module. What do you think he carries mumu?

What is the name of this portable module?

Henry120:
Nigeria has an extensive operational data link structure. The largest in SSA.

The man in the field - assets in the air - assets at sea - GCS- COBR Facility, all data linked and operational.

South-Africa is at-least 66 years behind Nigeria in the ISTAR and Data link field.

1. Nigeria has no systems wide datalink
2. Gripen = ISTAR that can operate in a contested airspace

Let's play a game: list Nigerian assets that are intergrated into your datalink. Then name your datalink

agaugust:
[s]Nigerian air force is the ISTAR master of Africa, nobody comes close, NOT even Egypt or Algeria.

NAF ISTAR standard is as good as many NATO powers, reason why they could not do what we had not done when the RAF and USAF ISTAR aircraft came to search for Chibok girls, they went away empty handed.

The Nigerian ISTAR force has aircraft with 2014 state of the art technology from USA, Italy, Austria, Germany.

South Africa is 66 years behind us ![/s]
.

1. Gripen
2. You havent found the Chibok girls either

agaugust:
[s]
SANDF datalinks do not work full spectrum, NOT all equipment is integrated, the plan was to do it stage by stage.

Also, in Sub-Saharan Africa, only Nigeria has been proved to use operational datalink that works 24/7[/s]
.

LinkZA is intergrated into platforms across air, land and Sea

From infantry radios, to artillery gun guidance, to MBT's, to Hawks to Gripen to Valour class - all intergrated onto one single system

Nigeria has no such data-link

All you have is a number of individual data-link enabled assets - no system

agaugust:
[s]You mean we should dread paper reports? Is your paper defence review a weapon, a missile? Hilarious

I would rather dread an armed robber on the street of Cape Town than a paper review of SANDF decline [/s]
.

Empty words

Henry120:
Nigeria is the only country in SSA that has operational data links.

No, you have some data-link enabled platforms.

You dont have a military wide datalink.

This guy, thinking a data-link enabled platform is the samething as a military geared for net-centric warfare.

You guys are about 20 years behind us.

Henry120:
Mumu!

There is always a GCS for collation of data you retarrd. How do you think Data is transferred?

For 10 points: What is a datalink!?!

Henry120:
A dual service drill was held between the army nd navy in kaduna spanning a period of three days.

involving endurance and advanced trench warfare
recon plus surveillance and inter comm provides by a cessna surveillance aircraft.

IED course,diffusion and detection..

advanced use of recoiless guns etc.

courtesy A I T.




This is the first time i'm hearing that Nigeria has a cessna surveillance plane.

So in addition to the ATR-42, Beechraft and Diamond DA42 the Nigerian Airforce also operates Cessna surveillance aircrafts.

le citation required

agaugust:
[s]Okay, Nigerians have now interpreted the contents of South African Defence Review ansd educated you today, so you have now cancelled your story about buying tons and tons of new weapons from a paper review as if it is money, well done, mumu. Wishy-Washy 3rd class Southie educational background is an epidemic in your country[/s]
.

Read my post
Understand my post
Then comment.

The day you dreaded has come: The defense review has been passed.

lionel4power:
this are the most important points of the article.

Defence Reveiw is not about new weapons.

It is mainly about securing more funding (allmost doubling the budget)

Then its about re-organizing the defence-force's structure so that it is suited for the roles we now use it in (Which have changed dramatically since the 1998 Defence Reveiw - hence the strain on the defence force)

Only in the long term is it about new equipment.


What you dont understand is that the current SANDF is designed and funded according to the 98 Reveiw, with no provision made for patroling foreign waters (which we now do), with provision for only one Battalion deployed internally (we now have 2 and a half soon to be 4) and with only one battalion deployed externally (we now have another 2 and a half) and no provision for a Brigade Sized standby force that has to be kept active and well fueled and supplied for rapid deployment.

These extra deployments have "multiplyer" effects - as now our pre-deployment training costs have doubled and tripled, as well as deployment costs, and our maintenance costs and insurance, and support and logistics and ware and tare etc etc etc

Then you consider the fact that these new costs have to be handled internally as the Treasury will not just write a blank cheque to the SANDF, so platforms that are not high priority get funds re-directed away from them and towards things that are.

As you can see deployments of the current SANDF are significantly more than were envisioned under the 98 review - hence funding does not match needs.

The new Defence Reveiw will redress that by bringing funding up to what is needed (it allows the Department of Treasury to release funds) and only in the medium and long term (2020-2030) does it change the composition and equipment of the SANDF

Basically all you need to know is this: Under the defence reveiw, the next 5 years will be spent consolidating the SANDF and bringing existing capabilities up to full capacity

jln115:
Minister welcomes Defence Review approval

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39440:minister-welcomes-defence-review-approval&catid=111:sa-defence&Itemid=242

With the approval of the Defence Review, expect the Defence budget to almost double from 1.1% of GDP to 2% of GDP/ From $4 billion to $7 billion+

Now to spend it

agaugust:
[s]Withdraw ‘uncosted’ Defence Review, DA urges
BY WYNDHAM HARTLEY, 05 JUNE 2015, 07:04


National Assembly delays revitalisation of defence force, says minister
Defence department mulls riot squad
A crisis too big to contemplate
DA says defence committee ‘failing in duty’ to hold minister to account
In this article
Companies and organisations: Inkatha Freedom Party | Freedom Front Plus | Democratic Alliance
People: Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula


[size=13pt]
LAST year’s Defence Review, which concluded that the South African National Defence Force was in decline and would take years to reverse, should be withdrawn because it had not been costed, Democratic Alliance (DA) MP David Maynier said on Thursday.[/size]

Speaking in the National Assembly during a debate on the Defence Review, Mr Maynier also accused the joint standing committee on defence of failing to give the review report the attention it deserved, holding only a handful of meetings in almost a year.

The review came to the conclusion that the military was in a critical state of decline and lacked core capabilities.

Committee chairman Stanley Motimele introduced the report on Thursday and called for its approval.

Mr Maynier said: "We have a constitutional responsibility to consider the financial implications of policy documents in Parliament.

"We propose the minister (Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula) withdraws the Defence Review from Parliament, and within a period of not more than six months commissions an independent audit of the cost estimates used in the review."

Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald said it did not make sense to consider buying more weapons when those already bought could not be operated because of a lack of funding.

Inkatha Freedom Party MP Albert Mncwango said it was clear more funding was needed for the defence force, but not at the expense of other priorities.

The National Assembly approved the report on the Defence Review

[size=16pt]Paper Approval Of A Report That Has No Costs...No Money Attached....Only Paper Text[/s][/size]
.

And where does it say that?

Now that the Legislation has been passed, Treasury can release funds.

You cant give money to a program that does not exist!! Oldo Domingo!!

Now, cry more delicious tears!!

Henry240:
Congratulations to the Republic of South-Africa!!!

Appreciated

*tips hat*

The South African Parliament has passed the Defence Reveiw Bill.

This is a major mile-stone in the SANDF and could be as monumental a moment as when the decision to dis-arm was made in the mid 1990's.

If implimented fully, it could (and likely) see defence spending rased from the current 1.1% of GDP to a full 2% - as has been called for by the Reveiw itself and by opposition MP's

This will see the defence budget rise to some $7 Billion per annum.

The long term (and most important goals) are:

The planning milestones are: 1, arrest the decline in critical capabilities through immediate and directed interventions; 2, re-balance and re-organise the SANDF as the foundation for future growth; 3, create a sustainable defence force to meet ordered defence commitments; 4, enhance the SANDF’s capacity to respond to nascent challenges in the strategic environments; and 5, defend South Africa against imminent or dire threat.

The short term goals (milestone 1) are:

Defence Review policy objectives; development of appropriate force design and structure; right-sizing the personnel component of the SANDF; developing a plan to systemically restructure the SANDF and renew the military education, training and development system.

Today is a good day indeed.

Picture: Force Deployment/Projection outcomes for milestone 2-4

[size=30pt]THE DEFENSE REVIEW HAS BEEN PASSED BY PARLIAMENT!!!

To quote Churchill: Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.


Pic: Nigerian Teasr[/size]

Henry120:
[b][s]Withdraw ‘uncosted’ Defence Review, DA urges
BY WYNDHAM HARTLEY, 05 JUNE 2015, 07:04

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A police inspector holds up the South African flag outside the Gauteng legislature. Picture: THE TIMES
Related articles






National Assembly delays revitalisation of defence force, says minister
Defence department mulls riot squad
A crisis too big to contemplate
DA says defence committee ‘failing in duty’ to hold minister to account
In this article
Companies and organisations: Inkatha Freedom Party | Freedom Front Plus | Democratic Alliance
People: Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula



LAST year’s Defence Review, which concluded that the South African National Defence Force was in decline and would take years to reverse, should be withdrawn because it had not been costed, Democratic Alliance (DA) MP David Maynier said on Thursday.

Speaking in the National Assembly during a debate on the Defence Review, Mr Maynier also accused the joint standing committee on defence of failing to give the review report the attention it deserved, holding only a handful of meetings in almost a year.

The review came to the conclusion that the military was in a critical state of decline and lacked core capabilities.

Committee chairman Stanley Motimele introduced the report on Thursday and called for its approval.

Mr Maynier said: "We have a constitutional responsibility to consider the financial implications of policy documents in Parliament.

"We propose the minister (Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula) withdraws the Defence Review from Parliament, and within a period of not more than six months commissions an independent audit of the cost estimates used in the review."

Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald said it did not make sense to consider buying more weapons when those already bought could not be operated because of a lack of funding.

Inkatha Freedom Party MP Albert Mncwango said it was clear more funding was needed for the defence force, but not at the expense of other priorities.

The National Assembly approved the report on the Defence Review.[/b][/s]

Blah blah blah - opposition MP's are opposing? Wow! Shock Horror!!

Sereti commission discussions have shown that all assets are being used as intended:

Valour Class have 2 operational, one in training/reserve and one in maintenance (in line with international standards)
Subs have 2 operational and one in maintenance (above international standards)
All Hawks are operational
All A109's are operational
Gripen pilot training continues unabated - all platforms are operational, two years ago we had 18 aircrew, this number grows continually

Review is happening, whether you like it or not

O, and FYI - the FF+ supports the Defence Reveiw:

Groenewald said it was time that the ANC government realised the defence minister’s request for a budget of two percent of Gross Domestic Product was essential if the SANDF was to continue successfully executing tasks internally and continentally. - Defenceweb

Henry120:
Provide technical proof to show that Mr Young is wrong, and you are right. He provided sound evidence, and not this emotional post you are throwing around.


The fact is clear, South-African Valour Frigates are obsolete , Sub-standard and run on an archaic combat suite far below the requirements of the South-African Navy.

1. Mr Young was utterly destroyed when he took the stand.
2. There is nothing he said that says that the Valour Class is obsolete
3. He is not even talking about the combat suite as a whole - he is talking about a specific component of the combat suite (data-busses)
4. SAN requirements were adjusted according to availability of systems, acquisition costs, operational costs, life-cycle costs, training costs etc.


and, yet again, I ask: Are you saying that Mr Young is right - and that all the admirals and staff of the French, South African, Saudi and Taiwanese navies are wrong?

agaugust:
Bwhahahaha, that Mr. Young has finished t.hem o ! Everything South African is over-rated and over-estimated....over-hyped.

Only God knows how many people were bribed to do that deal for the purchase of obsolete stuff Valour frigates for SAN, they can bribe anybody including FIFA.....they just destroyed the good image of world football with their ANC government's super efficient international bribery machinery, well oiled high efficiency machinery, even professional scammers across the world will now fear South African fraud projection capability across all continents
.

Mr Young got finished in the stand.

As usual all you Nigerians have are allegations... not a fact to be seen!

And our "overhyped" frigates are better than your ZERO frigates

agaugust:
1. A-Darter still not in service, and contract is for a 5 year period, so NO DATE as to when it will enter service, 5 years is 2015 to 2020.

Still no proof of payment, no amount of money mentioned, contract on paper, no money involved.

Same way SANDF signed contract for 238 Badgers and got 5 units in 15 years

Every other thing remains as I said :

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 238 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !

I love how you say all these things yet you have no proof or citations.

Utter and complete bullshit (as usual)

agaugust:
Nope, according to your own source, there are different versions and generations of of STIR radars

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/netherlands/defence/stir-tracking-and-illumination-radar

Dutch, British, Canadian, etc including 2002 versions, then the American version which your own source says is very different and does not tell us the date of introduction. Nigeria got the STIR radar with American input, and it's NOT the 1988 version you mentioned, that was used by Argentina.

Your own source ruined your argument.

Aradu STIR radar was installed by America not same as Argentina's version your claim of 30 years is wrecked by your own source
.

Signaal STIR is from 1988

End of story

agaugust:
You and I have argued this last year and I proved it all, I updated it on wikipedia and showed my sources to EVERYBODY on this thread last year, Harpoon databases and Spanish navy ships website. I see no need for a repeat, "In 2001, another refit (with American assistance) was undertaken, and the ship returned to operation. The obsolete AWS 5 radar and PHS sonar were replaced with a Signaal STIR (I/J/K) 60 nm/120 km fire control (range, bearing, altitude), DA-08 90 nm/180 km air (search, track) as well as an Atlas EA80 20 nm/40 km passive anti-submarine sonar (bearing, class), in addition to these, all other systems including weapons were cleaned, overhauled and put in good working order."

Now you show us proof of new combat suite in Valour frigate, that you have removed the 20 year old navionics...show proof !
.

Signaal STIR (platform dates back to at least 1988)
https://books.google.co/books?id=4S3h8j_NEmkC&pg=PA267&lpg=PA267&dq=Signaal+STIR&source=bl&ots=hJUtOV1-f1&sig=ZXL1nIshZ4Jt2lUFHWx2VVLiUJg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BjN0VeGxGs2B8gW1m4PYAQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Signaal%20STIR&f=false

DA-08 (platform dates back to at least 1983)
http://www.helis.com/database/sys/290/

Conclusion: Combat suite in aradu is composed of hardware that is 30 years old.

Henry120:
Provide technical proof to show that Mr Young is wrong, and you are right. He provided sound evidence, and not this emotional post you are throwing around.


The fact is clear, South-African Valour Frigates are obsolete , Sub-standard and run on an archaic combat suite far below the requirements of the South-African Navy.

1. Mr Young was utterly destroyed when he took the stand.
2. There is nothing he said that says that the Valour Class is obsolete
3. He is not even talking about the combat suite as a whole - he is talking about a specific component of the combat suite (data-busses)
4. SAN requirements were adjusted according to availability of systems, acquisition costs, operational costs, life-cycle costs, training costs etc.

Your Mr Young is a critic because his company got outdone by another
Mr Young is only proclaiming the flaws of his competitors system and the pro's of his system.
The advantages of the system we purchased and the flaws of his system were conveniently forgotten.


and, yet again, I ask: Are you saying that Mr Young is right - and that all the admirals and staff of the French, South African, Saudi and Taiwanese navies are wrong?

Finally, yet again I remind you, the Valor Class is not only a more modern warship than any vessel in your navy, it has capabilities that no vessel in your navy has. I love the cognitive dissonance you display when criticizing things we have and you do not.

Henry120:
I don't know how to say this without hurting your feelings

I really, really do not want you to go into another emotional tantrum.


Mr young provided indisputable facts.

I was talking to augbugug you illiterate clown

1. Read the post
2. Understand the post
3. Reply accordingly

And with regards to Mr Young - he was overly critical because his company lost out in the contract and he was destroyed on the stand.

His opinion (in testimony) is just that OPINION

Henry120:
Buhahhahahahahaha....... !!!! He's a pain in your flesh, LMFAO!!!


@Agaugust, you see the emotional hurt you are causing our South-African brothers, "i'm not happy with you".... LOL!

Now, apologise to Patrick.





* that moment the South-Africans wish Agaugust was South-African.

see

MikeCZAR:
His crying!! But I won't stop force feeding him humble pie.
1. A-Darter: Ordered.
A. Denel Dynamics has received a production contract for the A-Darter fifth-generation air-to-air missile from Armscor, which covers the production of missiles for the South African Air Force over the next five years.
Source: http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-38741/
2. Badger IFV: Ordered
A. DLS was finally awarded a contract for 238 Badger IFVs and variants for the South African National Defence Force (SANDF).
Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43336/badger-nears-production-aad142
3. Skyshield upgrades: Completion 2017.
A. Rheinmetall Air Defence of Switzerland is upgrading part of the South African National Defence Force’s (SANDF) twin 35mm Oerlikon GDF-005 towed anti-aircraft guns (AAG) to the latest GDF-007 standard.
Conclusion: If complexion is extended it will due to the supply company not end user and money.
Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43318/south-africa-to-get-upgraded-gdf-weapons-aad142
4. DM2A4 heavyweight torpedo!
5. What is "merlin"? That's because it is still in a technology demonstration phase.
Conclusion: After A-Darter completion, Brazil will join!
6. OPVs: Submission will close soon, then will know the contenders.

My statement was correct and factual,augustus typed out utter bullshit

praising augubugug for trolling and basing his arguments on intentional lies and mis-information is an indication of not only the desperation you nigerians feel, but your inherently dishonest nature

Henry120:
He posted no lies. Stop been emotional!

All his opinion and lies.

It is difficult to remain calm when someone is constantly posting absolute nonsense for no reason whatsoever.