₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
1. I am afraid your "template of interpretation" is full of errors.

2. And your interpretation of Daniel's vision is also rubbish as as a result.

do you have a specific prove?

budaatum:
Aba Paxonel! It is you that is the wonderful one that started this wonderful thread after doing the wonderful work, so please do not be stealing from your wonderful glory and be giving it to that undeserving buda, lol!

budaatum:
Sorry Pax, but it is not belief that you have shown here, but an understanding of the Word gained through your faith in Christ.

There was indeed a time when you merely believed. But you had faith that that which you believed was true. And now, having tested that which you believed by faith by asking and knocking and seeking with all your heart and your soul and your mind and your being, you you have received an understanding and you now know it is true, and you have created a thread to help us understand too.

So, thank you for doing the work and for increasing our understanding.

Thanks buda!

You are wonderful

Yo

Are you the type of Christian that thinks that any unfortunate situation that happens to you in life is a test of your faith that God allows the situation to test whether you will deny your faith in Christ or fall into sin?
Then you are absolutely wrong. You don't know your right and power given to you as a Christian.

Perhaps he tested Abraham and Job does not mean he will test you with affliction. So when you suffer affliction, either it occur as a result of your ignorance not knowing what to do initially to prevent the affliction, or you unfortunately by chance met the wrong person who is causing the affliction to you.
God do not need test people, he already knows everyone.



Here is one case :

A man comes back from work only to hand over the sack letter that was given to him by his manager to his wife telling her that after devoting 20 years of his career to work with the company, the manager sacked him after 20 years because he refused to sign a forged document.(lets assume this is true )
Then the wife celebrated him saying, I'm proud of you for standing for the Lord inspite the persecution.

Now, just like Christians were persecuted will you say that the man's faith was tested and that he was persecuted for having faith?
The answer is no!
You will be so fallacious to conclude that he was persecuted for his faith.
The man's faith was not tested, rather his integrity was tested or you can say the man was persecuted for having integrity.

Note that everyone are subjected to have integrity whether they are Christian or not, therefore having integrity can never be a demand of your faith.

Consequently, showing love and kindness can never be a demand of your faith, you do them because there are needs to meet.
Peace,Long suffering, faithfulness, goodness, temperance are never demands of your faith. You live them because they are needed from you in such situations that they should be applied.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So, the only demand of your faith in Christ is to believe, which you have already done.

uchkochi:
7. You cannot pray the devourer away, you cannot fast the devourer away, you can only tithe the devourer away because it is only God that can rebuke the devourer because tithing is a universal law. He said "bring ye all the tithe and I will rebuke the devourer...." Malachi 3:11.

Where i will pick is the only scripture you quoted for all these lies.

1. Was Malachi old testament or new testament prophet?
2. Is John the Baptist not greater than all the prophets of the old covenants including Malachi according to Matthew 11:11 ?
3. If Jesus Christ in Mathew 11:11 is saying that you that is in Christianity is greater than John the Baptist who was greater than Malachi why then are you stepping so low to adhere to a tithing law upholded by Malachi that was used to put the children of isreal in boundage?
4. Are you an isrealite?

What do you mean by join catholic, can't he just decides to attend catholic church for the unity of Christianity?

RedAbaya:
Yes

why?
Give it to my sister

Buhari government policies are killing your works and prayers

come and see your darling president

Na this country we dey see a full grown educated Barbecue man stood so low to canvass for an illiterate retired military man to rule him as president in 2015, all because of partisan politics rather than politics that will toach people's lives positively, now he is regretting it.

Tommorow he will come and talk one thing and say GOD BLESS NIGERIA

As if na by mouth God go bless Nigeria after you don shit for shurch.

Hypocrites

deantimes:
Amidst national grief on the day the late Chief of Army Staff (COAS), Ibrahim Attahiru, is being buried, some Northern governors and ministers rather than join Nigerians to mourn, attended the wedding ceremony of Abubakar Malami’s son.

what do you expect the governors to do, abandon a wedding that they have agreed to attend long before the incidence of the COAS's death?
Una nor get sense o!

Kobojunkie:
It is better compared to a contract between God and the individual. Jesus Christ is the contract -the New Covenant Law of God and obedience where the terms and conditions of said contract is concerned necessary for you to benefit from sad contract.

Faith in the other party in the agreement results from acting in submission and obedience to the terms and conditions of the agreement/contract.

If you want to interpret any of that as being religious, go right ahead.

yes, certainly!

One definition of religion or faith according to the Oxford dictionary is as thus :

RELIGION
commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

Whether you call it a contract or whatever, so long there is that commitment to a God then it is religion

Kobojunkie:
1. Re-read my previous comment.


2. The "faith" into which we are baptized by the Spirit of God, this after we gain access to the Kingdom of God, is the very same "faith" into which John the Baptist, himself an Old Covenant prophet, came baptizing people into, where "faith" here infers religion in this case, an idea that is not biblical by the way.

In all of scripture, the word Faith instead refers to the acts of obedience carried out in submission to the teachings and commandments of God. Everyone who has walked with God, even from Adam, to Moses, Obadiah, Hosea, Jeremiah, Zechariah etc., have all had to do by faith, submitting to and obeying every one of God's commandments as they did so.

the act of obedience you are talking about is done within a religious setting no matter how you see it. Therefore you can't exclude religion out of faith

Kobojunkie:
His disciples did indeed baptize people, especially since some of them were previously disciples of John the Baptists.
Jesus Christ did not come with a different kind of water baptism, as you assume. He continued the water baptism ritual that John the Baptist, who came before Him, established.

OK, you were right by saying Jesus disciples baptized with water like John the Baptist.
But saying that Jesus did not come with a different baptism other than water is very wrong. You have noticed that Jesus himself didn't baptize with water, why?
Because he was the one to baptize with the holy spirit(a greater baptism than that of John)
and John the Baptist confirmed that .John 1:33.

Therefore baptism with water is not the same as baptism with the holy spirit .
The same thing applies : the faith which Jesus baptized people into with the holy spirit(in Act2:1-4, which is Christianity, is not the same faith with that of John the Baptist : Hence, there was also change of faith between John the Baptist and Jesus Christ.
That was why John's disciples were later baptized into Christianity by Peter in Acts 19:5

Now, here is the thing :
The faith established by Jesus Christ at his death and resurrection(which is Christianity) is grater than the faith established by John the Baptist, while John's faith is greater than Judaism(old covenant faith of the Jews).

That was why Jesus made this statement.

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women(including all the prophets of the old testament) there hath not risen a greater(prophet) than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven(in Christianity) is greater than he(John the Baptist).

So, it is faith to faith, you can't dispute that.

And that not withstanding, Christians can baptize with water if they want to. It does not stop them from having the holy spirit

Kobojunkie:
When Jesus Christ was on earth, His disciples went around baptizing people according to the way John had taught them

do you have any scripture showing Jesus disciples baptizing people when Jesus was on earth?

Post the scripture here let's see

Kobojunkie:
1. What does it mean to be saved and be of Jesus Christ ? It means one belongs to the Kingdom of God, does it not?

True!

So it follows that anyone who is not baptized by water is not yet a Christian since he/she is yet to become a part of the Kingdom of God, this according to Jesus Christ Himself.

the essence of baptism was a formal declaration that one has left his previous religion and is baptized into a new religion. For instance, the Pharisees baptized by John the Baptist were a show of open declaration by them that they have left Judaism and have accepted joining a movement led by John the Baptist which later ended by it adherents joining Christianity after Christ was resurrected.

Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Meaning, John's baptism alone wasn't sufficient, they needed to be baptized into Christianity after John had already baptized them previously.
Now, where they Christians that were never baptized by John?
Ofcourse yes!
Those disciples who received baptism of the holy spirit in Act 2:2 where never baptized with water by John, yet they were saved.

John preached to these non-Christians,even as He preached to the Pharisees when he declared that for them to gain access to the Kingdom of God, they needed to change their hearts and their lives through obedience to God.

the level of sins perpetrated by the Pharisees and the isrealites in those days required that they should repent,that's why Jesus described them as evil and adulterous generation. Hence, that is why John the Baptist preached repentance, It wasn't an issue of repentance first before they could see God's kingdom.
Another reason John preached repentance to them was to let them know that this new religion or new covenant(Christianity) that will be established by Jesus Christ also preaches repentance like the old covenant did, so they should accept it.
Remember, the old covenant did not save inspite that repentance was preached,but this new covenant has come with salvation. And that salvation is not based on repentance but by Faith.

It matters not that there was no Christianity at the time that John the Baptist supposedly made the statement to the Pharisees since Jesus Christ, the Law in the Kingdom of God, upheld John, the Baptists, declaration, as far as water Baptism and His kingdom is concerned.

that is not true!
You cannot exclude the very thing that matters if one must see God's kingdom, which is change of Faith, as without Faith it is impossible to please God.

Baptism is about changing of Faith

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Meaning, the just shall not live by his repentance or how much he can do good.

So, for salvation to be attend, there must be change of religion.
From religion to religion, not just repentance.

2. From what beginning do you speak of when you claim God did not lay down any rule as far as His Kingdom is concerned?

if you have read the vision Daniel interpreted to King Nebucchadnezar of Babylon(Daniel 2:31-35), what he saw about the great statue. That vision was revealed to the King showing him what has been happening from the beginning, that there were change of kingdoms orchestrated by God himself.
And i also tell you that Abraham was justified by faith from the beginning of the old covenant.

The beginning is John the Baptist

No!
Christ has been from the beginning

and He came proclaiming it the people, "Repent, for the Kingdom is at hand !".

Elijah also did that in his time, what are you talking?
I also mentioned prophet Daniel.
Infact, Daniel stood before might King Nebucchadnezzar and proclaimed it, that was long time ago before John the Baptist.

The news of the coming of the forerunner was announced through the prophets that He would make clear the path... Malachi 4 vs 5-6 and Isaiah 40 vs 1-3

3. Entry into the Kingdom of God is not justification but simply certification of one's eligibility for the promise of God. Just as to be considered a part of the Old Covenant, you had to have the blood of Jacob flowing through your veins and also had to be circumcised as a male, in the New agreement, those who wish to enter into the Kingdom of God are expected to be born-again and saved according to Jesus Christ's stipulations.

justification, certification, eligibility. No difference in the context of what we are saying.

Kobojunkie:
John the Baptist is the one sent from God to prepare the way, isn't he? And according to Him who was sent to clear the way through water baptism, the reason we are baptized is to show that we have indeed changed our hearts and our hearts.

Jesus Christ, the Truth of God, then declared in John 3 vs 1 -21, that it is indeed as John the Baptist said. So why are you having a problem with this?

you are deviating from the point.
We aren't talking about water baptism, ofcourse a Christian need to be baptized.
You claim that John the Baptist emphasizes repentance or no kingdom of God. But have you asked yourself was he talking to Christians that they must repent or no kingdom of God or he was talking the Pharisees?
Were the Pharisees Christians?

I have told you, when you read bible consider time or you contradict yourself. There was no Christianity as at the time John the Baptist was baptizing people.

I have no way of understanding your interpretation of what is written in Roman's 3 vs 24, so I will have to ask you question to obtain details instead.

1. The free gift sinners receive through Jesus Christ is the gift of eternal life, and this is as explained in John 3 vs 1 - 21 and this only for those who are saved and become a part of the Kingdom of God, are you somehow of the mind that a one can ignore the rules laid down by God Himself as far as gaining access into His Kingdom is concerned?

From the beginning, God did not lay down any rule of repentance(which is works of the law) to access the kingdom, not even to the Pharisees or the Jews(Descendants of Abraham) who had the old covenant. Rather, the only rule was Faith even till this moment.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

John the Baptist in John 3:7-11 only emphasized the importance of repentance, but not as a criteria to the kingdom of God as the only criteria is to believe in Christ(Faith) as mentioned in John 3:16. Believing in Christ is what justifies freely, not repentance.

2. The second statement in that verse, which seems to address what is to happen after entry into the Kingdom of God is acquired, states that sinners are made right with God by being made free from sin through Jesus Christ and according to Jesus Christ, the way to be made free from Sin through Him,

this is exactly the case, not repentance.

the Truth of God, is through accepting and obeying His commandments - John 8 vs 31 -41. Am I to believe you are ok with what this second statement refers to?

that is what it refers to

Kobojunkie:
In Matthew 3 vs 7-11, John the Baptist declared that a change of heart and life is necessary for a one to be baptized. And we learn from John 3 vs 1-21, that baptism by water is required for one to gain access to the Kingdom of God.

Therefore if the grace Gospel pretends to circumvent God's own rule by creating a way to "salvation" for hypocrites, one ought to wonder if these hypocrites are they truly saved and in the Kingdom of God?

In relation to what you have just said according to your jw and you, that John 3:7-11 emphasizes repentance otherwise no kingdom, Explain Romans 3:24?

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

If the kingdom requires repentance, why is Romans saying freely given?

Kobojunkie:
Interesting! So your grace Gospel is a fake kind of gospel then since it is saves hypocrites whereas the Gospel of the Kingdom of God as preached by Jesus Christ, at least according to John the Baptist in Matthew 3 vs 7 -11 cannot save hypocrites?

what is your point?
That Matthew 3:7-11 preaches that there is no grace?

quote out the scripture and point out where it says there is no grace let's see?

Salvation is for everyone that believe, bad or good people. Only that Nigerian Christians are collection of hypocrites who are saved by grace.

If not for grace

After doing all these you have posted, the child will still involve in unwanted pregnancy, what then is the essence?
The next thing you start saying the child wasn't in Christ after leading him or her to Christ by this your method.

Kobojunkiee:
I am afraid you are confused by the doctrines and tradition of men still in this

explain yourself

1. Jesus Christ preached salvation to Nicodemus there in John 3 vs 16-21,

true!
But that's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is, at what time was the salvation established?
It was established at the point of resurrection of Christ.

Salvation may be preached even before time, but it doesn't mean that the salvation was there at the time of the initial preaching by John the Baptist and Jesus Christ.
You will understand this when you start reading the book of Matthew from the beginning to the end where Christ was crucified.

2. The relationship between Salvation and being born-again exists only in the fact that according to Jesus Christ in John 3 vs 1 through 21, both are required in order to gain entry into the Kingdom of God.

Point of correction: Both were required then, before Christ resurrection, not both are required till now.

That is the mistake you people keep making, you don't consider time when you read your bible

Matthew 11:11 ...notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he(referring to John the baptist)

Meaning, a believer living at the time after the resurrection of Christ is greater than John the baptist who lived before the resurrection of Christ.

Kobojunkiee:
A major problem with doctrines and traditions of men is they create confusion of terms where there really ought not to be any.

Certainly, this born again doctrine uphold by most Christians today is one of the them.

According to Jesus Christ, 2 things must take place ...

* Must be born-again (born of water and born of Spirit)

there was no salvation at the time Jesus met Nicodemus, salvation only started after Jesus resurrected, then how come the term born again or born of the spirit used by Jesus now translate to salvation, that one most be born again for him to be saved, don't you see that there is no correlation between born again and the salvation Jesus established at the time of death and resurrection?

Obviously, the term born again actually meant something else

* Must experience Salvation (believe and obtain eternal life)

this is the only thing that is required to be saved, not born again.
Born again is something else entirely.

The one not dependent on the other according to John 3 vs 1-21

According to John the Baptist, in Matthew 3 vs 11, a change of heart is required to be born of water. Jesus Christ also said in John 3 vs 18, that those who believe in Jesus Christ are those no longer judged guilty, I.e. condemned to death.

true!
A change of heart was required to be born again, a change of heart is not required to be saved. Rather, what is tequired is faith.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

You don't need the law to be saved.
If born again was a law then it is not required.

What the above referenced verses suggest is that without a change of heart, salvation is indeed impossible. You can read the rest of the conversation John the Baptist had with the Pharisees in Matthew 3 vs 7 through 10 where he, John, explained to them without a change of heart and of life, there is no repentance and hence no salvation.

you are mixing up everything, you will never understand it that way

Separate the time of Nicodemus and John the Baptist from the time after Jesus crucifixion and resurrection, that is when salvation begins

Kobojunkiee:
That is not true. If you pay close attention to the entire conversation Jesus Christ had with Nicodemus, you will find the details of the process required for entering into the Kingdom of God is as follows....(in no particular order)

* Believe Jesus Christ is who He says He is
* Be born of water (a step in being be born-again)
* Be saved(obtain eternal life and this through the eating of Jesus Christ's body and drinking of His blood explained in John 10)
* Be born of the Spirit (Spirit not to be confused here with the Spirit of God)

Jesus Christ made it clear that only those who complete all the steps are able to enter into the Kingdom of God. Clearly this is a conditioned process, is it not?

the point the op is raising as condition for salvation are not any steps.
Rather, the op mentioned born again as the condition for salvation which includes to repent from sin. And I'm saying repentance isn't any requirement for salvation, so what are you talking?

Born again is salvation with condition.
In born again(human doctrine), you are required to repent otherwise you are not saved, but in Christ that is far from the case.

In Christ, you are required to believe that's all an nothing more, that is unconditional love.

John 3:16 ..whosever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

The bottom-line is, that person who was born a Christian from a Christian family was made to believe from childhood by his family background, that is salvation, God does not require anything else.

So sad!

May God be with your family at this trying times

Ok

DSC7:
We all need a peaceful atmosphere.....

how is mile 12 mata take concern me na

jom28gy:
I will do that

please do