₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
By asking these questions, of Abominations and Tribulations you have clearly shown that aware of them thereby saving me the need to Cite the Scriptures.

no!
I throw the question and gave answers backing them with scriptures, but what did you do?
You came and started postulate theories without any scriptural reference what's that?
Obviously, something is suspicious about your submission

Thus, all I have done is raise up the fact that these things Prophecies have happened

you have agreed with me now that it has happened?

and are happening

no!
Don't twist it

What is happening today good or bad have no bearing to Daniel's prophesies or the bible.
Life goes on the way it was, the bad things we see today happening have been happening as usual from the beginning, infact i can prove that things are better now compared to how they were in the past

and that Everyone Sees them and has Seen them and have Confessed that in Truth, these things have happened, as Proven here in the Religious Section, Family Section and Romance Section!

what everyone are seeing isn't proof of anything.
They are all usual occurence that will be corrected over time as humans are learning everyday.
Every evil you see today is a sign that humans are still in the stage of learning. Another 1000 years or 2000 years from now there will be a lot of improvement in the fight against evil.
It was worst 2000 years ago when Jesus was still on earth compared to now.

They have already confessed so as I said earlier!

their confession is as a result of deception, and i seek to correct that error

Dtruthspeaker:
I know you do not deserve this Answer because you are A Hater of God

just say you do not have anything to say

but I will drop it because of the uninformed and the simple who may come in here.

Abomination of desolation- All the Abominations you see, hear and read about happening in those places that is commonly called "House of God"

Desolation- The "Dryness" and "death" which those which you see in those former "House of God" as A Result of The Departure of God From them and the Curse that now follows them!

Tribulation- Means Trouble-lations, Much Troubles.

there is absolutely no link of what you are saying to scriptures that's why you can't quote one bible verse to support your claims. At this point between me and you who is now the hater of God?
Let the people you called the uninformed and the simple read and judge for themselves.

These times as Seen in the world are Clearly Very Much Trouble-Full times, Food scarcity, increased hardship, continuous and extensive breach of Law, Unsafety, Disregard of Natural Rights, Too much Evil Reports, Increase in wicked works!

All these things are Seen happening All over the world EXACTLY AS PROPHECIED!

as if hardship, food scarcely and trouble was not there from the beginning even before Daniel.
Then why will Daniel begin to prophesy what has been there does that make sense to you?

Baawaa:
We have heard you,all is well

yes, all will be well when pastors stop scamming church members who didn't know.
For now all is not well

Yes

Now let's educate ourselves, because it seems we are been scammed by this great tribulation thing today.
What is abomination of desolation and what is the great tribulation?

We recall that Daniel prophesied these events long before Jesus came and was crucified.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah(referring to Jesus Christ) be cut off(be crucified)...

So, abomination of desolation happened at the time Jesus was crucified 2000 years ago,that was why Jesus made reference to Daniel in Matthew 24

What is then abomination of desolation as spoken by Daniel?
It refers to a situation where the land of isreal was left desolate as a result of wars and the isrealites were conquered and were carried away by the Roman empire during Jesus time to another location, leaving the temple in Jerusalem desolate.

Matthew 24:6 And ye(to his disciples, not us today) shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

What end was he talking about?
The end of the old covenant not necessarily the end of the world.

Why was the term abomination used?
Because it was abomination to the Jews for the gentiles(the Romans since they were not priests or levites) to have access to the temple and since they were idol worshippers.
Idol worshippers having access to the temple of God?
That's abomination.

Ofcourse, you can understand why Jesus Christ was brutal to those who were buying and selling at the temple, because it was also abomination.

Why did God allow the abomination to happen?

Now, you understand how the term abomination of desolation came about. So, what is then the great tribulation?

WHAT IS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ?

Matthew 13:21 ...for when TRIBULATION OR PERSECUTION ariseth because of the word....

The great tribulation was persecution of Christians in bible days and nothing more.

so, when you see Jesus quoting saying in

Matthew 24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

He was simply referring to persecution of his disciples right from the days before his crucifixion to the days of the early Christian church in the book of act of the apostles (also the days of abomination of desolation)

Why am i saying all these?
If anyone tells you that there will be rapture or the great tribulation in the future please tell the person stop scamming me, they all happened 2000 years ago

Jesus Christ specifically says that generation shall not pass until those things happen

I used to love this oyakhilome back then, but today he is propagating false conspiracy theory

chatinent:
Sb told me today that performing miracles is a sign of godly presence.

really?
How many of these miracle workers were able to heal one covid 19 patient?

Is that really a sign?

it was a sign among early Christians i bible days to convince non Christians to join Christianity.
How many of these miracle workers today have ever performed miracles to prove to Muslims that Christianity is the way?
Non of them!
What they perform miracles for is to prove to fellow Christians that they have power, a self-centered purpose.

Can magic and miracle be differentiated?

no doubt, today pastors are magicians performing miracles because there is nothing biblical about their methods

Sharingiscaring:
Jesus said this as recorded in Matthew 16:4...



And he also said this in Mark 16:15-18...



Was Jesus contradicting himself? No. So, see my understanding of and how to reconcile the two passages:

A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign INSTEAD OF PERFORMING THE SIGNS THEMSELVES (because they can't since they are not in Christ)...

But, believers in Christ perform signs and wonders themselves INSTEAD OF LOOKING FOR THEM (because they have the power).

I advise you reflect prayerfully on this before you respond. Thank you.

ok,
Why did the believers have to perform signs and wonders, was it for show that they have power?

I

Kobojunkie:
Here are the questions I asked you

So, in your assessment, Jesus Christ had to use the word "Today" or at least imply it, for anything he said to apply to Christ-ians "Today" and this from 2000 years ago?

why will Jesus Christ use the word today?
we are not the only people that has ever lived after Christ resurrected 2000 years ago or will ever live beyond this current day we are living, so Christ will not possibly have us in mind when he was interacting with his disciples 2000 years ago. All we or any generation of people need to do is to key to the work he has completed on the Cross by believing in him and we are saved, that's all.
We don't need all these miracle this, miracle that, what for, Is it for show?

So, all Christ-ians today should avoid Jesus Christ's teachings unless He specifically indicated in His teachings that that ought to be applied even today?

that is hasty generalization man.
Don't generalize!

We were specifically refering to miracles, not all Jesus teachings

Kobojunkie:
So, in your assessment, Jesus Christ had to use the word "Today" or at least imply it, for anything he said to apply to Christ ians "Today" and this from 2000 years ago?

So, all Christ-ians today should avoid Jesus Christ's teachings unless He specifically indicated in His teachings that that ought to be applied even today?

In the beginning there was no need for miracles.
God created everything and saw that they were good already.
Yes, it's true that Adam and Eve sinned, but Christ has restored man back to the state where he was before Adam sinned, a state where miracles are not needed, don't you understand?

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

We have all read in the old testament how God miraculously fought the Israelites battle and gave victory to Jerusalem. He opened the red sea, provided manner from heaven, water from rocks, great miracles. But how long will God continue to do that?

A wicked and adulterous generation will continue to seek for miracles even after Christ has died and resurrected and gave them eternal life which is paramount

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away

The question you are running from is, what are signs and wonders or miracles meant for?

Kobojunkie:
Where did Jesus Christ tell you that there is no need for greater works in His Kingdom today?

where in the bible did Jesus mentioned today or this current day we are living talkless of he mentioning the need for us to perform miracles as performed by early apostles and Jesus disciples who really had the need for those miracles as observed by the op, can't you reason that there is time for everything and if there was any need for it and if God wanted the miracles to continue till this day we are living there will be cases where Christians are performing miracles everywhere today?
And come to think of it, how many Christians today are performing the kind of miracles we read in the bible as rightly observed by the op?

You will not use your brain to think, you are waiting for Jesus to tell you everything abi?

Kobojunkie:
I can also claim Jesus Christ appeared to me at some point too. But again, according to you.. So, since Paul, Stephen , the other Christians listed and myself included did not see Jesus Christ Physically, then how did we follow Him?

the op asked where is the greater works today.
I told him there is no need for greater works today.
Greater works was meant for the disciples who followed Jesus in bible days, perhaps Paul, Peter needed the works to convince more people into the kingdom.
Now that we have more people in the kingdom(more than 30% of the world's population Christians today) what do you need greater works for?
What else is better than love your neighbor as yourself and live a better life as a Christian, what do you need supernatural powers for?

the Paul and Stephen you mentioned, did Jesus Christ not appear to them at some point?
Is Jesus Christ appearing to them not a miracle?
Why will Jesus want to appear to them in the first place, that's why i asked the question.
What is the purpose of miracles?
Can you give the answer?

Kobojunkie:
Paul, Stephen and many of the first Christians spoken of in the book of Acts also did not see Jesus Christ physically before choosing to follow Him either.

Kobojunkie:
Are today's Christian's not His followers?

the disciples saw Jesus Christ physically that's how they followed him. Today Christians don't see him physically to follow does that not tell you the difference?

The question one should ask is, why did Jesus and his disciples performed miracles ?
Are Christians today performing miracles doing it to suit the purpose Jesus and his disciples did it?

Because, when the purpose of a thing is not known abuse is inevitable

Sharingiscaring:
I say no to this, and I back my 'no' with a scripture. That John Chapter 14 I'm talking about is a discussion Jesus was having with his disciples shortly before he was crucified. It continued until Chapter 17 where he concluded it with a long prayer. In that prayer he said, "I pray not only for THESE ones but also for those who shall believe in me THROUGH THEIR words" (John 17:20). This means that, all the while, he had been referring not only to "these ones but also to those who shall believe in me through their words". In Mark 16:17, 18, he said, "go out to the WHOLE WORLD and proclaim the good news to EVERY CREATURE. He that BELIEVES and is BAPTIZED shall be saved but he that doesn't believe shall be condemned. These signs shall follow those who BELIEVE: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues... They shall lay their hands on the sick who shall recover".

Remember that he was talking about ANYONE who shall BELIEVE in him anywhere in the WHOLE WORLD through the preaching of those he was addressing directly.

why did Jesus and his disciples of that time performed miracles?

Sharingiscaring:
In John 14:11 and 12, Jesus is quoted as saying, "believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Otherwise, believe me BECAUSE OF THE WORKS I DO. Truly truly I say unto you, ANYONE who believes in me, the works that I do shall HE do also, and GREATER works than THESE shall he do for I go unto the Father".

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13289391_screenshot20210321060023_jpeg44adb24f5d2753bc3924b53ddb4dffdd

So, where is ANYONE doing GREATER works than Jesus did?

SEE WHY I ASK

Jesus earlier said in John 14:6, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except by me".

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13289390_screenshot20210321055903_jpegb66f9c5aed79fd844b38d437f997e322

Today's Christians love to quote this to prove that they are better than the people of other religions. But, I'm saying that if today's Christians can't live up to the demand of John 14:12, it is unfair to insist that people should accept John 14:6 as true because, even Jesus had proofs to show for his claims: "Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me. Otherwise, BELIEVE ME BECAUSE OF THE WORK I DO" (John 14:11).

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13289392_screenshot20210320182335_jpeg7c55addf0721f33b4809d8c25290d83c

when Jesus said his disciples will do greater works he never meant today Christians will do greater works.
Ofcourse, his disciples of that time did the works of miracles Jesus meant they will do if they follow him.
He never mentioned today Christians.

Yes

Figurative languages or figure of speeches or metaphorical statements seems to be used a lot in bible days(although they are not commonly used in our current day). They are complex words used to represent the intended meaning of a phrase spoken by someone, they are meant to hide the intended meaning so that someone else will not understand what the speaker is saying. Examples of figurative languages are Jesus parables and prophesies spoken by prophet Daniel and Revelation of John in the book of revelation. They all have internal meaning which are hidden to Christians reading these passages today, unfortunately.

When the disciples asked Jesus why speak in parables this is what he told them

Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you(disciples)to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them(Pharisees)it is not given.

Now, most figurative languages in the bible were not outrightly interpreted except few. For instance, Jesus gave the literal meaning of one of his figurative language thus:

Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them,He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Matthew 13:38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Let's look at the content of this statement again.

The sower represent the son of man
The field represent the world
The good seed represent the kingdom of God
The tares represent the kingdom of Satan

With is template of interpretation, every other figurative languages in the bible can be understood.

For instance:

Daniel 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

What are the four winds and the great sea represented here?
They both represent kingdoms
Meaning, the four winds representing four kingdoms drove upon the great sea(another kingdom) implies there was a battle.
And the four beasts that came out from one kingdom(sea) are four kings in collaboration against the four winds(another four kings).

In the nutshell, the book of revelation presented a lot of scary figures like Mark of the beast, 666, a great red dragon, daughter of Jezebel or the great Babylon, etc
They represent real life situations and they should not scare any Christian this modern day that understand what they mean.

Are you trying to make heaven or you are already in heaven?

Kobojunkie:
No, I am afraid it is not me but Jesus Christ Himself whose teachings are documented in the 4 Gospels for those who accept(trust) and obey His teachings to learn from.

We are not called to make this up as we go. We are called to accept(trust) and obey the teachings of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, Himself. It is really just as simple as that. His rules or you quit~

are you even sure whether your agitation too is making sense to you?

Kobojunkie:
None of what you have said makes sense as far as the Teachings of Jesus Christ. So?

that is to you

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid I don't know what kind of love you are speaking of here. God, however, who is Love Himself, called His followers to love Him with all their heart, mind, body, and soul, meaning that the love He calls them to is the kind they is expressed in their heart, mind, body, and soul.

yes!
But what if they express the love towards God only in their heart and not in their mind and body, it does not change anything because no one can see God physically to express a physical love for him

Well, that there are those who walk around as badge wearers does not mean God is pleased with them, does it now? After all the same God promises them Hell as their eternal abode.

yes, it is true that God is not pleased with them, but for you to assume that God promises them hell for their actions, is false assumption.
Because the only justice God understand is Grace. But we humans, the justice we understand is the law.

God, the one who is Spirit, in fact, commands that of all of His followers. That is why He came down in the person of Jesus Christ to live the example of what He wants of those who will be His followers. As Jesus Christ, He lived doing His Will via His(Jesus's) heart, mind, body, and soul. If He can do that, anyone else who wants to be His follower can.

my guy, no one is Jesus Christ.
We all make mistakes no matter how hard we try.

Yet you believe what Jesus Christ said when He said His own Spirit will live inside of you if you accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments?

his spirit is not meant to inspire us by some supernatural means to love with our minds and body or keep the law.
His spirit in us was help us bear witness that we are sons and daughters of God inspite our sinfulness.
Again, that doesn't mean that God is pleased if we commit sin as there are consequences for every actions.

Kobojunkie:
You are called to love God , Mind, Heart, Soul and Body - not just at Heart!

yes,
But love begins from the heart, from there it may or may not reflect in soul and body.
Afterall, we have some Christians who does not love their neighbors, it does not stop them from being Christians.

And since God is a spirit do we need the body to love him?
I don't think so.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit

Spirit and body are two separate entity, they have nothing to do with each other

Foenix:
I’m have struggling with my faith for long. Born and brought up a muslims with muslims wife and children and in core northern Nigeria. But I have recently convinced myself to convert to christianity beacuse being a muslims is too hard for me to cope, as I always love moderately free lifestyle.
But how can I handle the consequences comes with it!

1. According to islam, conversion to any religion from islam the convert must be killed.
2. My wife and children will leave me.
3. My parents and relatives will deny me being their family member.
3. My friends will leave me.

And I later thought that I can’t handle the pressure of converting here in Nigeria. But for long in my mind I’ve seen myself as a Christian for my love to Jesus Christ.

BUT CAN SOMEBODY BE CHRISTIAN ONLY IN HIS MIND FOR FEAR OF BAD CONSEQUENCES?

That is the essense of Christianity in the first place, to be a Christian at heart.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Eomans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

So, if you believe in the heart you are very good to go before God, no one will know your mind.

Then you don't need to loose your family, friends and relations simply because you didn't know you can hide your religious identity in your heart, it's a matter of simple wisdom.

specialmati:
ok if not convinced read the other verses i shared with you if still not convinced again then believe what you understand have a great week

great week too

specialmati:
look bible is not novel try to ask the holy spirit interpretation

I understand what you are saying. It will take someone who is learning the bible afresh and who is not a Christian to ask for the holy spirit interpretation

mathew 24:40 read that well with understanding one taking one left what does it mean the one taking what happened to them thats rapture bro..

No!, don't get it wrong that isn't rapture, una funny o

OK, imagine it this way

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The one taken and the other left you referred to, did it happen in that generation or not?
If it didn't happen in that generation why will Jesus say this generation shall not pass till it happen


I'm asking you?

specialmati:
nawa oo try reading the bible with understanding rapture is an illusion like you said thats what you think.read that john 3:16 again there is a choice to make there. and if the bible said there will be rapture who are you to say its an illusion mere mortal

brother, i guarantee you like someone who read all through the bible no rapture in that book, believe me.
I attend a Pentecostal church too, but i don't need to argue that with anyone in my church.

I used to believe there was rapture in the bible until i started reading it myself.

All those scriptures that seems to be like rapture were all refering to something else.
For instance,
Matthew 24 was Jesus listing the signs of his coming to his disciples, there is nothing rapture there.
1 Corinthians 15 Paul explained resurrection of the dead if you read that chapter from verse 35 to the end, there is nothing rapture there

See, all you need to do is, just read the whole chapter and draw a conclusion

beges:
Mr man.I only read your last line.how can you say that the book of revelations was written to know the past...well people like you are needed on earth after rapture to explain it away.

you only read my last line why then are you responding to what you didn't read at all?

Is that not a sign that you were heavily brainwashed and you was expecting to see the usual brainwashing teaching which you didn't see

maximunimpact:
Hello bud, is this the new light on "the generation" that Jesus talked about? if yes can you please guide me to where i will get more details?

everything is written in the bible.
Only that we are reading we are not seeing because religious doctrines have be-clouded our minds away from the truth.

reubenobi:
You must be kidding with this your write up. May God help you

the person that is kidding is the one writing conclusion without presenting any premise to explain his point.

I must be kidding, that is your argument.
But how do you explain that my write up is kidding?
You can't explain!

Are you not lost like that?

May God help you

obonujoker:
Yes.

Matthew 24: 29-31

Matthew 25:10-13

Revelation 14:14-20

I will adjourn you to go back and read these scriptures again. There is background story behind these scriptures that was neglected before bible scholars proposed that they were talking about rapture and these are the basics of the story :

1. The Jews (Israelites) had the old covenant with God through their fore father Abraham which was to end at the coming of their Messiah(Jesus Christ),hence the signs of the coming and end of the world in Matthew 24:3
2. Daniel(a prophet of the old covenant) prophesied the coming of the Messiah when Israel was taken to exile at Babylon

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

Which means, the disciples actually saw the abomination of desolation

3. Jesus Christ in Mathew 24 made reference to the prophecy of Daniel to his disciples pertaining to the coming of the Messiah the Jews were waiting for, that when they(the disciples) see all the signs like rumours of war, earthquakes, abomination of desolation, etc, they should know that they were signs of the end of the old covenant(what they meant by end of world)

All these things happened within that era or period Jesus Christ came for him to be crucified for the sins of mankind, about 2000 years ago.

Infact, Jesus specifically said

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The mistake we are making today is that, when we read these things in the bible we think they refer to events that will happen in our future.

It's not so,
They all happened in that generation of the bible days of jesus disciples

The same thing with the book of revelation.
The book of Revelation was a vision given to John the beloved to confirm Jesus Christ to the Jews that he is actually the Messiah.
It was written for us to read and know what has happened in the past, not that we should read and be scared of our future.