₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
Go back and re-read Genesis 17 beginning from verse 1 through 8, then come back and those questions of yours again to see if they still make sense afterwards.

While you are at it, read Deuteronomy 30 where God ratified the covenant/agreement spoken of in Genesis 17 there, and be sure to attempt the entire chapter which explains thet the covenant is question(The old Covenant) is indeed the one promised to Abraham and His descendants, and the promise is of the land of Canaan( no mention of a heaven or a hell) forever, just as God promised Abraham in Genesis 17.

you are running away from the question.

Is the covenant everlasting yes or no?

If you say the covenant is not everlasting in contrary to what Genesis 17: 7 has said, show me anywhere in whole chapter of Genesis 17, or show me anywhere in Deuteronomy 30 that have said otherwise that the covenant is not everlasting.

Kobojunkie:
Before Jesus Christ there was no promise of a Heaven or a Hell to the Jewish people, not was there a promise of life after death as you know of it today thanks to Jesus Christ. There were various ideas in existence at the time, most all of them based on pagan beliefs which had no scriptural grounding. Those he's who believed for a messiah at the time, believed instead for an actual event to save and set Israel above it's enemies, and they looked for that to happen in any form.
When Jesus Christ arroved, not with an army but teaching instead of a Kingdom to come, it is no surprise that there were those who believed the messiah would usher in the new reign they long expected.
The people's delusions aside though, Jesus Christ was the first to bring in the idea of a Kingdom outside of Jerusalem, of Israel even - a kingdom not ruled by Israels king's but by God and God alone.

Take a look at this :

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Tell me that this promise of God to Abraham and his descendants wasn't the promise of the kingdom of God?

And if you think that the promise wasn't the promise of the kingdom of God do you agree that the kingdom of God is everlasting?

If the kingdom of God is everlasting why is then this covenant everlasting?
Don't you think that this promise was the promise of the kingdom?

Kobojunkie:
That verse from Luke says absolutely nothing of what you claim it does.

I have said that the people thought that the kingdom of God will suddenly appear because it was time for Jesus to be crucified, did the scripture suggest something different from that, I even embolded it?

Luke 19: 11....and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

And the questions you ask....i can't even make sense of any of them. Why would the kingdom of God appear?

the same question I'm asking, because it doesn't make sense to me that the kingdom should appear.

So because the people thought a thing, it was then meant to be so?

no!
I didn't say it was meant to be so. I'm infact pointing out that the people were wrong, just like people of today are wrong thinking that there will be rapture or something

Deceived by doctrines? Whose doctrines? Jesus Christ was the first to speak to them of the Kingdom of God

no, Jesus Christ wasn't the first.
For the people to think that the kingdom will suddenly come down it means they were wrongly thought on how the kingdom was going to come, by Judaism a long time ago, not Jesus Christ..
Remember, these people were Jews

....so if they did not understand what Jesus Christ taught, does that somehow mean Jesus Christ decieved them?

when i said they were deceived by doctrines, i didn't mean Jesus doctrines

Jesus Christ cleared up their confusion by telling them a story in the same Luke 19 beginning from the next verse,

that was after Jesus sensed that they were confused, so he cleared up their confusion

so why in the world would you suggest that that one verse there supposedly supports any of what you have said here about the kingdom of Heaven being a mental illusion of sorts and not a allcation as Jesus Christ Himself clearly suggests in the story that followed?

Kobojunkie:
The problems in society as described by you have more to do with ignorance of what is in fact written in the books of the Bible since many have taken to conjuring u ideas in their minds pretending those can sufficiently replace what is stated.

Everything I wrote of can be easily found in the Bible by anyone who has at least read the gospels with out blinders over their eyes. I am afraid that providing you the direct references to Jesus Christ's own statements will not do since you deny His very claims that Heaven is a place He ascended to.

To butress what i have been saying, look at this scripture

Luke 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

The question is : Did the kingdom of God appear?
The answer is no!
Rather, what happened was that Jesus was crucified, not that the kingdom appeared.

Why will they think initially that the kingdom of God will appear?
Because they were deceived by doctrines, just like today people are deceived that rapture will come and take people to a place

Kobojunkie:
I am sorry, what?
Heaven is a thing of faith in our heart on this earth?

yes it is, and nothing else.

So when Jesus Christ informed His disciples that He would go to prepare a place for them in His Father's house, that was a lie?

it is very possible that a lot of people misunderstood Jesus when he said that.

Look if Jesus was misunderstood when he said something in this scripture

John 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

Then certainly, it is very possible that our current day Christians have misunderstood Jesus when he said he is going to prepare a place

When Jesus Christ explained that upon His return, those who obey Him would be ushered into His Kingdom whereas the others will be cast out into the eternal darkness, that was also a lie?

the question you should ask is, how is the return of Jesus going to look like?

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The only possible understanding to this scripture as it applies to reality is that, the return of Jesus is the day we will die, that is the day of judgement, After that life continues.
That means, those who didn't die will continue living till it's their turn to die and face judgement, therefore the return of Jesus is different date for different people.

The return of Jesus is not one big apocalyptic event or any rapture. I have proved several times that the word rapture is not found in the bible.
That scriptures that seems to appear to be rapture (1 cor 15:52 and 1 thes 4:16 which aimed was to explain resurrection of the dead, not rapture) were possibly misinterpreted by the ancient catholic church(possibly uneducated humans) where today's conventional doctrines are based on

If truly you believe that Heaven is not a place but a state of the human mind/heart (I guess you also believe it survives after death) such as you posit, why then did you bother creating this thread in the first place?

??

perhaps you may see the reason now

Jesus Christ was clear that no one would enter into Heaven(or hell) until after his return

where?
where in the scriptures?

regardless of the meaning you attribute there to Paul's writing in colosians. Why do you not know this if indeed you have a better understanding of Heaven than I do?

please be specific!
what chapter and verse of Colossians?

Have you heard that religion is causing more problems to the society than bringing solutions?
That statement is very true

Intellectually, people are lost! Especially in Africa

They live terribly in contradiction thinking they are practicing Christianity.
The problem is not the bible,
The problem is the people being too dogmatic.

You know, the Pharisees in the bible also were too dogmatic of their Judaism doctrines that's why they couldn't accept the new teachings Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
There are no people in Heaven or Hell. I am afraid you are greatly misinformed.

Even the apostles are still sleeping in their graves, waiting for their chance at Heaven. If you did not know this, then it is possible that your entire assumption is just that, wrong!

ofcourse you do not have any scripture to back up this idea of yours.

On the contrary,

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

That means we have been translated into heaven already, we are already there

Heaven is a thing of faith in our heart here on this earth, not some kind of a physical place where people go

enilove:
You don't know anything about Christianity .

I will also ask that you rather present what you want to say deductively rather than first throwing conclusions like this and at the end you cannot back it up

You said because there is no physical Jesus to follow nowadays

atleast you are sincere enough to agree that there is no physical Jesus to follow

means you don't have to follow his teachings ?

Being born again is physical or spiritual ?

John 3:6-8 KJV
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

are you saying that because Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit therefore born again is spiritual?
OK, if another person sees flesh in the scripture and concludes that born again is flesh he is also right seeing that both flesh and spirit are reflected in the scripture.

You don't read by the words you see in a single verse, you read by understanding the whole chapter.

Also, you failed to explain from your understanding what Jesus meant by the wind blow here it listed, it's a parable, that is where the meaning of born again lies.

You are really really ignorant of the Bible and don't know anything about God.

really?
Ok, you that understand please help us explain what this scripture mean, it's a parable

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The word of God is eternal .

Matthew 24:35 KJV
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

You are reading your Bible upsidedown .

explain that scripture, I'm waiting

enilove:
You are more than confused .

just say there things i have been saying that are not clear and point them out specifically.
I understand it's difficult to understand because i not coming out comprehensively. I'm just trying to summarize not to bore you with too many writings hoping you will think and relate all i have been saying with what you have read before in the bible.

Where is it written that there is an end to being born again ?

but you have read in the bible that the disciples followed Jesus through a journey from Galilee to Jerusalem and the journey ended when Jesus was crucifed.
That there is no physical Jesus to follow today, meaning the physical following ended approximately 2000 years ago?

You said born again '' is a way to Christianity and does not relate to men of nowadays but those who lived before the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ .

exactly!

Can you prove this from the Bible ?

it does not relate to men of nowadays because men of nowadays don't see physical Jesus to follow again.

Lastly , when you are proving your point , mind you words and stop giving conmand as if you are talking to your surbodinate.

did i give any such command?

OK, whatever!
If i did, I'm sorry.

But these things I'm saying, they are basic knowledge every Christian should know about their religion Christianity.

I remember in my secondary school days there is this revised standard version of the bible that was recommended for us. It used to come with maps.
Maps indicating the journey of Jesus before his crucifixion, also the journey of Paul who helped spreading the gospel.
Little did i know then that those maps were of great significance to understand what the bible is trying to let us understand.

enilove:
Born again Christian simply means someone who is associated with Christianity and is born of water and of the Spirit .

you got it wrong!
There is nothing associating Christianity and born again

John 3:3-6 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

so, basically it is born again first before one can see the kingdom of God. That doesn't mean that everyone who were born again saw the kingdom of God.
Infact, very few of the born again in bible(only 120 disciples. Act 1:15) saw the kingdom of God when it was established at Jesus resurrection, hence few people entered the kingdom according to matthew 7:14


Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is THE WAY, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mark the emboldened THE WAY :
When you follow the story behind this whole thing you will understand.
Born again(which means to believe in Christ and follow him and become his disciple because he is the way) was the way to the kingdom but not the kingdom itself. The kingdom itself is holding that believe till Christ died and resurrect. It was at the point were Christ died and resurrected that Christianity was established, that marked the end of born again.
Remember, even John the Baptist disciples(because they followed Christ too and were also born again) were later baptised into Christianity after Christ had resurrected. Act 19:5-6
But along the way to Jerusalem where Christ was to be crucified, many of his disciples(born agains) ran away. Peter believed too, but he denied him three times and almost lost the kingdom(Christianity), if not that Jesus prayed for him.

In all I'm saying, born again was not part of Christianity but simply the way to Christianity.

[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? .
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

please don't be confused when Jesus says A MAN be born of water.
A man there does not necessarily apply to men living today but only men who lived at the period before the death and resurrection of Jesus.

There are many who go to church and call themselves Christians but indulge in sins . These are Christians by name but not lead by the Spirit of God .

please don't use the phrase CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIAN again. You are not the one to determine who should be a Christian and who should not be a Christian.
The only thing that determines whether a person is a Christian or not is that person himself, not even whether the person commit sin or not.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So, everything about being a Christian is in the heart(your believe or faith), not in the action

There is nothing like born again in Christianity.
All Christians are Christians no matter their sin level

Question for the African traditionalists.
Yes, the African religions and their deities are part of the African heritage, but of what value are they?

Are there truly Powers in traditional divinations and culture?
Just like the way Christians call the name of Jesus and every knees will bow, can the names of orunmila, ogun, sango, obala and ayelala called for something?

Or is there anything like blood money, does it exist in reality?

I came across a Priest on Facebook. He sent me a friend request and i accepted it. Then, he started advertising his ability to convert stones to money.

Looking at the screen shot below, does those things on the floor looks like money ?

KNOWMORE56:
I will like you to know that the list of the names of the Son's of Jacob are slightly different from the names of the tribes of Israel.

Exodus 1:1-5 give the names of the son of Jacob, while
the names of the tribes are found in
Numbers 1: (verses)21,23,25,27,29,33,35,37,39,41,43, and 44-46.

In revelation 7:1-9, tribes of Dan and Ephraim are missing, replace with Levi and Joseph.

Heaven is for all. The condition is WHOEVER WILL:

*. Revelations 22:17 "KJV:And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, LET HIM TAKE THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY."

other places to see the word WHOEVER: Matthew 5:19; Mark 3:35; Luke 6:47; John 3:15; 1 John 3:10 and more.

Thanks.

Thank you very much!
Heaven is for all, WHOSEVER WILL! that is the most important

MaxInDHouse:
The list consist of twelve names in both but not the same names. Exodus 1:2-5; Revelations 7:5-8
Check again but this time carefully!

it really do not matter what names were mentioned in each of the scriptures, the basic idea is : The descendants of Jacob(Israelites) were the ones the promise of heaven were made for initially before gentiles like us were included, it was part of the covenant God had with Abraham their fore-father, that is why those names were mentioned in revelation 7 and that is why the figure 144, 000 is there in the book of revelation

Jeromejnr:
See as this OP just twisted scriptures and ended up with a modernistic man principled and humanistic conclusion.

modernistic?
If you say so, it's still good. Cos we can't exclude God from this modern day.

Humanistic?
Also good, cos present day humans should be considered first how interpretation of scriptures are affecting their present lives whether the interpretations are affecting their lives positively or negatively.
The ones that are affecting their lives negatively should be discarded no matter how long it has been established, while the ones that are affecting their lives positively should be uphold.

It's like you have gone to school to study a course. If whatever course you have studied is affecting your current life positively, then you have studied a validated truth.
But if it is affecting your life negatively, then you had wasted money paying school fees and what you study does not apply to reality.

Remember, the op started by saying only the truth can set us free.

MaxInDHouse:
Are you sure that the list of names given @ Revelations 7:5-8 is the same as the real names of Jacob's 12 sons? Exodus 1:2-5

Please carefully cross-check then let me know what you think!

Basically, they are the same

Exodus 1 mentioned
1. Reuben
2.Simeon
3.Levi
4.Judah
5.Issachar
6.Zebulun
7.Benjamin
8.Dan
9.Naphtali
10.Gad
11.Asher


Revelation 7 mentioned
1.Reuben
10.Gad,
11.Aser
9.Nephthali
2.Simeon
3.Levi
5.Issachar
6.Zabulon
*Joseph
7.Benjamin

MaxInDHouse:
Heaven is for few that's the significance of number 144,000 {Revelations 14:1 compared to Luke 12:32} it's earth that God purposed for billions to live not heaven! Psalms 115:16

no!
The significance of the number 144,000 is that the Jews(Israelites) of that time, were not excluded from heaven. They are entitled to it along side with the gentiles so long they believe in Christ. Romans 1:16
That the 12 tribes of Israel(12×12,000 assuming each tribes were numbered 12,000) that they were sealed for heaven (not excluded from heaven), all of them, so long they believe. (Revelation 7:5-

And you know, heaven is on this earth. So both the Jews and the gentiles we are all here now.

Only intelligent people who have made their bible their friend will understand this and know the truth and be free from the grip of religion.

You will recall that the disciples of Jesus asked him a similar question in Luke 13:23(take note : this question was asked before Jesus was crucified)

But i think this is a wrong question to ask in this dispensation after Christ has been crucified and he is resurrected. Rather, the right question that should be asked in today's reality is "Are there few that are in heaven? " seeing that heaven is already here with us through the death and resurrection of Christ, unlike the period when Christ has not been crucified.

we have to consider time when reading the bible.

there was time before the crucifixion of Christ which include the period when Jesus was yet alive on earth with his disciples before he was crucified, and there is was time after his death and resurrection, this is where we Christians belong which is heaven.

what am i driving at?
we this current era Christians without considering time, read bible that was written approximately 2000 years ago and try to make what we have read our current day reality and our future,it doesn't work that way.

For our benefits, the bible should be treated today as a book and past events and nothing else.

Are there few that are in heaven?
The answer is no!

Currently, there are billions of believers worldwide saved by Grace, they are not few.

MrBati:
Good morning!

At this stage of my life I am beginning to see going to church as a waste of productive time and my parents refuse to see why. I strongly believe in God as the author and finisher of my faith but I don't think it is necessary to always go to church...

I have been going to church for over 20 years of my life and I am tired.

My parents are ready to disown me because of not going to church.

Can't i serve God without going to Church?

that is only when you are independent without staying with your parents.

But for now, you have to play the good child to fulfill all righteousness.

What is wrong this days with pastors who are named Chris?

livingchrist:
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

all i needed you to understand is that this prophecy of Daniel has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ's death and resurrection.
The day he resurrected he confirmed the new covenant, remember it took the third day for Jesus to resurrect? That is already within one week.
His death and resurrection also ended the sacrifices common among the Jews in the old covenant.

Compare it with this below,

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

this is what i was saying.
Jesus made reference to Daniel to let his disciples know that it was time to fulfill that prophecy, it was time for him to die and resurrect.

You can see that Jesus was referring to the Jewish church, remember that the Gentile church has not be formed during Jesus ministry on earth.

there was nothing like the Jewish church Christianity has not yet been established then, rather it was the Jewish synagogue.

Paul was God's instrument in building the gentile church.

is there distinction between the Jewish church and the gentile church?
I don't think so

In Mathew 24 and other gospel, the end time events was told in the Jewish church perspective, Jesus well not just speaking to those present then but those in future yet to come and since Jesus was speaking to the Jewish church he omited the rapture which was a latter revelation through Apostle Paul.

also know that the phrase "end time or end of the world" in Matthew 24 was spoken metaphorically and does not necessarily mean end of the word as it is seen.
The literal meaning is end of the old covenant which ended at Jesus death and resurrection

livingchrist:
you are mistaking, prophetic timeline is not the same as human timeline.
For example how many years did it take the Jews to build their temple and city? Buy the prophetic timeline was days but the literal time is actually a year for a day.

whatever you call it, prophetic timeline or human timeline, it doesn't dispute the fact that Daniel's prophecy was referring to the period when Jesus came to die and resurrect, so when the time came Jesus in Matthew 24 draw the attention of his disciples to Daniel's prophecy that Daniel prophesy the fulfilment of what will happen when he will come and die and resurrect.
That Matthew 24 was mistaken to refer to rapture by our current day Christian missions where as it was talking about what will happen when Jesus came and die and resurrect

Truthwords:
Yes its a free world and i started my opinion which i am entitled to before you jumped into the comment section where you were not invited. Take an overdose of the vaccine if you want. Its your life.

my friend you quoted me first trying to impose your filthy entitled conspiracy theory on me i didn't invite you.

Truthwords:
This is the trashiest comment of the century. Who da fk told you that i will ever request for it. Even if its free, I WON'T TAKE IT

good!
Then allow those who do not share your conspiracy theory trash to get the vaccine if they want to, it's a free world

Incrizz:
This is the verse referenced for rapture in the Bible:

Mathew 24:

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


But check verses 37 and 39 of that same Mathew 24.
The rapture described in verses 40-41 was caused by verses 37 and 39.

Mathew 24:

"36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

The rapture in verses 40 & 41 is caused by the COMING OF THE SON OF MAN.
When JESUS comes back a second time, rapture shall happen
Without the appearance of JESUS, there can be no rapture!


That is not all.
See 1 Thessalonians 4:16,
1 Thessalonians 4:16
"16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

You see?
JESUS descends from Heaven and then rapture happens. Not before!!!
Without JESUS' apperance, there can be no rapture!


The tribulation is what will cause the love of many, who aren't watching to wax cold.

Revelation 3:10,
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell in the earth.

We shall all be tested!

Pass your test!

We get raptured when Christ appears. We get caught up with Him in the air (for those of us still alive by then).

Since from the Bible, we get caught up, or vanish, when we get caught up with Him in the air, it then means that if JESUS doesn't show up, there CANNOT be a "rapturing"!

HIS second coming is what causes rapture to happen.

Everytime The Scripture refers to rapture, it is ALWAYS in connection with the appearance of JESUS!
The Second coming of CHRIST JESUS and the rapture are one and same event.

Do not let anyone bewitch you




Side note:
The rapture will not happen till after the tribulation as stated clearly in verse 3 below:

2 Thess 2:1-3

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

you got Matthew 24 wrong, it wasn't talking about rapture it was talking about what will happen when Jesus will come and die for the sins of man as prophesied by Daniel.

Remember the Jews were waiting for the coming of the Messiah because they were in bondage of Roman empire at that time, and Daniel in the old testament prophesied how he was going to come.

Every signs Jesus told his disciples in that Matthew 24 was already happening there in their presence and they all saw it. The Pharisees saw it too but they didn't believe. That's why he said that generation will not pass away until all those signs happen.
Think about it this way, you will understand.
The whole of that Matthew 24 is like, Jesus was quoting a written script about the coming of the Messiah(himself) to his disciples which they have read before that the period of the coming the Messiah, two will be grinding, one will be taken and the other left.
That thing isn't rapture, it signifies that one will be taken to become Jesus disciple while the other will not be Jesus disciple.
This is how Jesus choosed his disciples : For instance, Jesus told Peter follow me and he followed him straight away. That means Peter was taken, but his father was left behind fishing you remember.
All these things happened within that period, and that's what Jesus was saying, not any rapture.

It has been long over due

Bill gate is right!
We Africans were lucky that it has been like that since, not today, that due to our environmental climatic conditions, our natural immune system may have been adapted to fever and malaria which have been killing Europeans in large number. The same thing is observed in this covid-19 outbreak.

Don't mind these pastors, wetin concern God concern luck?

The bible never said this world is coming to an end. Infact, the bible emphasized that God's kingdom is forever, and God's kingdom is on this earth. So, if the earth ends one day how is God's kingdom then forever?

Listening to these pastors is like a child trying this at home. By the time you will fall eh?

Ok

enilove:
I will still choose to be like Paul the Apostle .

what?
Adenuga is a Christian o

enilove:
The Bible says in :


Matthew 16:26 KJV
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

I would rather choose to be like Paul the apostle. Although , he was poor but he knew his destination.

But as for Dangote , his destination is very very uncertain .

What about you ?

Ok, lets leave Dangote.

To be like Paul the apostle or Adenuga who do you prefer?

livingchrist:
There have being many debate on what the tribulation is, and those to go through it.

Well this thread seeks to make some clarity about what the great tribulation is, and those it is meant for.
The great tribulation was spoken of by christ when he was asked by his disciples to tell them things that will be at the end of time.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

As spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ, the great tribulation is a period of severe troubles, sorrow, anguish and test.

It is called the hour of trials,

Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


To properly understand what the great tribulation is all about, we have to go back to the book of daniel.

Matthew 24:15-16 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Jesus was speaking to an audience who knew the prophecies of Daniel and that audience is the jewish disciples.
Jesus was essentially saying go and understand the prophecy of Daniel.

This is interesting as many people who talk about end time prophecies neglect the prophecy of Daniel and as a result end up with error.

What is the prophecy of daniel?
The seventy weeks

The great tribualtion is actually from the 70 weeks of Daniel's prophecy.

I want us to look at this verse carefully

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

First of all a fixed period of time determined to upon Daniel's people.
The question is, who are Daniel's people?
The Jews! Not the Gentile church but the jewish church wow.

This is the first time i have seen anyone in Nigeria even among pastors willing to reason about this great tribulation thing.
You were right to observe that if anyone want to understand what the great tribulation is all about then he must make reference to Daniel's prophecy, even Jesus Christ made reference to Daniel in Matthew 24.

Please let's look at it again

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Obviously, it took just seventy weeks(one year and four months) for the great tribulation to happen, all though this period was shorted for the sake of the elects(the disciples) otherwise, they wouldn't have survived it.

Who did the great tribulation happened to?
It happened to Daniel's people(The Jews) of which Jesus disciples were also part of the Jews who experienced it in their time.

What was the transgression that occurred during the great tribulation?
It was the crucifixion of Jesus Christ(who was anointed the most holy) which ended sins, brought everlasting righteousness and reconcile iniquity according to what Daniel fore-saw

So, obviously these whole thing called the great tribulation has already happened in the days of Jesus crucifixion.

This is why most times when i come to NL i made people understand that there is nothing like rapture or end time
There is nothing like the great tribulation or mark of the beast or whatever, they are all fictional doctrines and are never biblical.

Then i asked Christians, what are you people afraid of?
Why do you always being afraid of the future, what kinda demonic life is that?

God has given you life to live, he even sent his son Jesus Christ to die so that you might have the life to live eternally here on this earth, forever. So why not just live your life and enjoy it to the fullest?

Why are you afraid of the unknown that will obviously never come?