₦airaland Forum

Or can a Christian be idolater by worshiping money and still be a Christian at the same time?

The word Idolatry is defined as the worship of a physical object as a god.

The practice was very common in bible days especially among non Jewish tribes also known as the gentiles in the old testament. Even the Israelites at some point inspite the covenant they had with God through their forefather Abraham, were allured into idolatry.

But why did God hate idolatry among the Israelites so much such that he was a jealous God?

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Why will God choose the Isrealites to be a peculiar people amongst the nations of the earth?
Because, there was a religion(Faith) attached to that old covenant and that religion is Judaism, hence Abraham was justified by faith.

So, God hates idolatry among the Israelites and was jealous because idolatry(whatever where it is from) was another faith entirely, another religion totally different from Judaism and has no bearing to the old covenant.

So, the bone of contention here is from faith to faith and not from faith to money.

Romans 1:17 says... The righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith.

Without faith it is impossible to please God

In Christianity today, we have the new covenant(the Christian faith) through Jesus Christ. Can one say today that a Christian can practice idolatry, say worshipping an object, example money, at the same time the person is a Christian?
Or can one be a Muslim and at the same time he is a Christian?

The answer is no, it is not possible.
You cannot serve two masters at a time. Either you go for one and leave the other, and that is a function of what is in your heart.

So, when i hear people say a Christian is practicing idolatry by loving money so much therefore he is worshipping money, technically that is not correct in the real sense.
A Christian is a Christian and not an idolater and an idolater is never a Christian just like a Christian is not a Muslim and a Muslim is not a Christian.

However, if any Christian acquires wealth illegitimately as a result of him loving money so much, then he is said to be sinful and not an idolater and should face the consequences of his sins.

Kobojunkie:
I don't think as you do with your many special interpretations of scripture. So I have to ask these question in order to get a glimpse into why it is you are referring to.

OK, not necessarily because you want to know further but you want to keep upholding your dogma even when they have no necessary grounds or scriptural support?

Ofcourse, you will always have people countering you and the worst is, you will never come in terms with full knowledge

Kobojunkie:
1. Expand on your claim that there is no difference between works done in obedience of Jesus Christ(the Law) and what you call the "fruit of the spirit"?

2. Can you please list about 10 possible ways to show love to your neighbor?

why should i begin to do that now, aren't you a Christian or are you not familiar with scriptures?

OkCornel:
By works of the law, I meant obedience to instructions like wearing fringes, dietary laws, tithes, first fruits, penile circumcision and all those instructions that deal with actions and outward appearances, rather than the state of the heart, and weightier matters of Justice and Mercy which is fulfilled through love (one of the fruits of the Spirit)

ok

OkCornel:
Lol, only a living faith pleases God. And a living faith is evidenced by works (not works of the law but the fruits of the Spirit). A tree is judged by the fruits it bears.

And by the way, every man would be judged according to their works as Jesus clearly mentioned.

Revelation 22 v 12-14;
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

there is no difference between works of the law and fruit of the spirit.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Which is also a fruit of the spirit

Glamouzpeter:
May it sneak into ur house and stay one month untill u find it and kill it
Nonsense

a Christian talking,
She then say Non sense

What a Christian groomed by oyedepo

mrkings84:
If you find a cobra in your house one morning and kill it, how do u decide that the cobra has been there for a month or more??

because there are people who keep things in their house and never bother to check beneath them after one month or more

There are people who had cobra sneaking into their house one month and the cobra did not bite them until it was found and killed and no one said anything about it

Juliusmomoh:
If you are a christain, and you belive in re-icanation. You better stop going to church cos you are not a christain. BIBLE DON'T SUPPORT IT

you may have not seen reincarnation in the bible or you saw it and you didn't know it was talking about reincarnation.
Resurrection of the dead is real, that is what we know as reincarnation today.

The word reincarnation is defined as a rebirth of a soul in a new human body

1 Corinthians15:38 says But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body

So, we will be given a new body when we resurrect after we have died.

seunmsg:
https://lagospanorama.com/the-man-bola-tinubu-i-know-pius-akinyelure/

I don't have issues with his education and his past corporate performance and achievements

But please what was this bullion van thing all about.

Please clarify us?

HQofGilhem:
One who does not believe in the risen Christ, God and Christianity.

ok

Who is an unbeliever?

denisbid:
But that does not mean that demons do not exist or didn't you see one native doctor confessing that he killed T.B Joshua?

let's assume he actually killed him, can you then sue the man to court for this crime he has done?
No!
Therefore, demons do not exist

GreenFarmsNG:
Let's stop making things when and where there's none to make.

many times, people die from health concerns.

the aim of the post is not to make things but to let us know that people die from health concerns

There are several Nigerians who have died suddenly during or after church services some of which may have not been reported, Prophet T.B Joshua is one of the popular ones among others that include:

Dare Adeboye
Mrs Omamen Iyawe
Mrs Ibidunni Ighodalo
Pastor Kayode Abru

Omamen Iyawe before she got married, she used to be a friend back then in school, i didn't know she was the one

Ibidunni Ighodalo's death was confirmed to be health related issues, she the screenshot below :

But again, what could be the cause of sudden death in church?
Could it be attributed to some spiritual attack by demons or God just decided to call the person home?

Possibly, the answer to that question is non but health related issues which may include stress.

Like i have always said, there is nothing like demons, we are the masters of our lives and destiny. Whatever you do, please take anything that has to do with your health very seriously, consult your doctor for regular check up as much as you can especially when you have attend the age of 50 and above.
If this kind of thing called health breakdown could happen to strong men of God, then obviously health is not a repecter of any man.

May his soul rest in peace!

Happy birthday

Forget the display of signs i wonders, when i think about him, i see a philanthropist.

May his soul rest in peace!

MaxInDHouse:
There are lots and lots of figurative languages in the Bible that most readers takes literally!
For instance God told Adam from the beginning "From dust i created you so prove yourself worthy of life or you will return to dust" Genesis 2:17 compare to 3:17-19

That's the overall message of the Bible!
It's either man continue to live by food both physical and spiritual or miss any of the two and began deteriorating until he expires. Matthew 4:4 compare to Deuteronomy 8:3

But later when God's word began using figurative languages like Hell and Lake of Fire most readers forgot the overall message of the Bible and start saying "the dead are not REALLY dead" or "people don't die for REAL" {Genesis 3:4} whereas God's word consistently reminds us that when people die they no more take part in whatever happens amongst the living! Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

Satan and his demons are also out there promoting the first LIES ever which is "God can't return man to non-existence, once life began it's either you continue enjoying or suffering for all eternity"

So the stage is set, on whose are you?

God said He is the starter of our existence and so He has the ability to stop as in end it.

Or

Satan who said God can only start life but can't end it.

Whoever realize that God's word is full of figurative speeches shouldn't have any problem with this, all you need to do is meditate on God's will from the beginning:

Creation, Man dominates all other creatures with love, man continue to subject himself to his Creator, man lives forever, any amongst mankind that feels like dominating his fellowman is about to make himself God over others so such a person will be exterminated!

That is God's will!

well said!

Kobojunkie:
Sinners, demons and devils also believe and as a result they have access granted them into the Kingdom of God,explaining the field, which belonged to God, had even evil seeds planted in it...please try keep your responses terse and to the point abeg!

---

Let's start with your template again please?

1. Jesus Christ stated that His Kingdom is not of this world, declaring also that all those who believe in Him(saints, sinners, demons, & devils) enter into His Kingdom. So, isn't it instead the case that the field is in fact the Kingdom of God, and not the earth as you assume?

2. Your statement on the good seed and the tares, are we to assume you refer here instead to the individuals in the Kingdom and not Kingdom itself?

you shouldn't come back with the same questions i have address. If you are not satisfied then go pick your bible and confirm what i have said whether it is true or not, because i can't possibly give you everything here, ok.

And if you still want to get people do the very things you want them to do before you call them Christians go ahead.

Afterall, even boko haram will want people to do things in their way before they regard them as Muslims otherwise they are infidels

Kobojunkie:
Let's start with your template shall we? 1. Jesus Christ His Kingdom is not of this world

on the stand point that his kingdom was not here on earth to antagonize worldly kingdoms such as that of the the ancient province of Isreal that was governed by Pilate. That also implies that his kingdom does not consist of a land or a capital city or army of warriors or Territory, but something abstract which is the mind of people, believers.

and He said all those who believe in Him enter into His Kingdom

they enter by simply believing and nothing more

So, isn't it instead the case that the field is in fact the Kingdom of God, and not the earth as you assume?

everyone that believes are on this earth, they all constitute the kingdom of God on this earth. But they are not here to antagonize earthly kingdoms, hence the kingdom of God is not of this earth.

2. Your statement on the good seed and the tares, are we to assume you mean the individuals who belong to the Kingdom or the Kingdom itself?

Yes!
that is exactly the literal meaning of the figurative language The good seed represent the kingdom of God

We are the good seed on this earth(which is the field) planted by Jesus Christ the day he resurrected.

Have you ever heard this statement that the Glory of God covers the earth like the waters covers the sea?
It implies that believers covers this earth in population as God promised Abraham that his descendants will be as numerous like the sands of the sea shores.

Today, you can't possibly estimate accurately the number of Christians living worldwide on this earth, they are so numerous, that is a fulfilment of prophecy

Kobojunkie:
1. No one understood Jesus Christ's teachings except Paul you say

another aspect you need to correct about your cognitive understanding.
I say no one fully understood.
I didn't say no one understood

Can you post for us the verse where Jesus Christ stated those 2 commandment clearly AND-ing them in the way you suggest so we can at least have something tangible to consider here for an example.

I will explain how the two comments apply separately, you don't need Jesus to tell you that.

The first commandment says love God with all your heart: that one is achieved by accepting Christ i have already said that.

The second one says love your neighbour as yourself : anyone can love his neighbour whether he is Christian or not, therefore it does not take your believe in Christ to love your neighbour.
Loving your neighbour and believing in Christ are two separate entity

Kobojunkie:
I didnt evade any of your questions. I believe I have made it more than clear that the logical principles you seek to bring into this are unnecessary given that beginning with layman level understanding, one is able to clearly grasp the laws are given by Jesus Christ.

I can tell you no one fully understood Jesus in his time, not even any of his disciples.

And among Jesus disciples right from the time Jesus was yet alive before he was crucified till after his crucifixion, Paul was the most educated among them.

The first and second greatest commandments were given you by God through Jesus Christ.

the very thing that keep baffles me about people like you, even within your statements you are not seeing what I'm trying to portray to you.
why is it the first AND the second commandments?
Why is the phrase AND used there?

can't you see that the two commandments are separated and are excluded from each other and they exist independently?

That was why I brought the logic to help you see that.

You see this thing called religion?
Na God go help una

Kobojunkie:
The teachings of Jesus Christ was preached to the uneducated poor people of His time without use of those principles you attempt here to drag and many of them understood it without problem. Jesus Christ said you should use the understanding you have in comprehending His teachings. Try that instead !

Till then, you logical conclusions remain disconnected at best

you are evading the question to bring Jesus teachings which is not what i asked.

Is Romans 11:6 not Paul's teaching?
Did Paul teach anything different from what Jesus Christ thought?

May be you should just tear off the page Romans 11:6 was written in your bible and focus on Jesus teachings only

Kobojunkie:
Dude, I am not jeromejnr!

whatever!
But it appears unusual

Kobojunkie:
Huh? Abeg, no use me as excuse .

sometimes you people don't know that what you do is obvious?

How on earth will someone call himself Jeromejnr dedicate all his 10 to 20 minutes of his time typing to comment on a thread, all to tell you that the op is saying rubbish.
All for you,
Are you paying him?

Kobojunkie:
i am honestly not sure why you chose this tedious route when it is unnecessary but here goes

1. The given P(A) and P(B) are not mutually exclusive since they are intended to both occur at the same time... meaning you are expected love the Lord God with all your heart,mind, body and soul even as you love your neighbor just as you love your own self. No mutual exclusion here.

2. Even though as propositions, P(A) and P(B) exist independent of each other, P(B) can be said to be an event dependent on P(A) but the reverse is not the case.i.e. The chances of event P(B) happening increased with the occurence of event P(A)

So, P(A) and P(B) are no mutually exclusive events and instead, P(B) can be said to be an event dependent on P(A).

OK,
I get you!

All you want is that i should use the right principle which is independent and not excluded middle?

No wahalla!

In that case, going by

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Grace is independent of works going by the scripture yes or no?

Jeromejnr:
The OP is talking rubbish.

James 1:12

Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

1 Peter 4 :12

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.

1 Peter 1:7

6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire,

Daniel 11:35

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.


No one has time to sit and listen to someone who loves to give his own opinion instead of the scriptures and one useless "law of excluded middles" that has nothing to do with the Bible.

if you like change your moniker it is the same you kobojunkie talking long talk

Kobojunkie:
This ain't about ad hominems here I am simply trying to be as blunt as possible so as to cut straight to you on this. I suggest you go back to your logic teacher and ask for your money back.

The propositions set before you are INDEPENDENT of each other, therefore you cannot apply the law of excluded middles to them. What you have done amounts to saying something alone the lines of

what is the difference between mutually exclusive event and independent event?
I want straight answer, no long talk

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid you are still not making any sense of any kind.

it is more honorable to say "i don't understand" rather than using the term "you are not making sense" which amount to ad hominem. Because what may not make sense to you does not implies it is so with other people.
Otherwise, when a post does not make sense to you it is better you don't quote it, unless you want clarification by saying i don't understand, OK

So, you claim that given two, in this case, independent propositions, greatest law P(A), and the second greatest law , P(B)...

---

P(A) ="Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, body and soul"
P(B) = "Love your neighbor as you love your own self"

...You can somehow reach the following conclusion, this by applying the law of excluded middles .

Either P(A) is true or ~P(B) is true

where ~ implies negation

---

exactly, that's the point.
b implies negation in the context of the scriptures i just quoted

Can you read that aloud to yourself and then try explaining to us how it makes any logical sense?

beyond the logic i quoted scriptures saying

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

That works implies negation while grace is the proposition, meaning works is mutually exclusive of grace and vice versa, what else do you want again?

If after this you still cannot understand, then there is no one else that can help you

Kobojunkie:
Wow... what the heck has the law of excluded middles got to do with any of this?

What simple logic do you allude to? If your OP claim is indeed a logical one the you shouldn't have any problems answering the questions posed now, should you?
Again...

The law states that for every proposition A, either this proposition A or its negation B is true

You mentioned the greatest commandment stipulates that you first love God with all your heart, mind, body and soul, that is proposition A which is true. But there was proposition B that you didn't bother to mention which stipulates that you love your neighbour as yourself. I'm telling you that, that proposition B(love your neighbour as yourself) is negation and cannot be true to be a demand of faith. Rather, proposition A (Love God with all your heart..) is the only demand of faith because if anyone says he loves God then he must believe that Jesus is Christ. John 14:1

Previously, i also mentioned Romans 11: 6 to you but it seems your brain cannot understand

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This is law of excluded middle.
Grace is the proposition while works is the negation.

But i know what you want to do.
You want to glory on your works for your salvation.
Continue

Kobojunkie:
Interesting claim you make... and let me guess, to believe implies mental assent and nothing more, right?

Let's be reminded here that the greatest commandment(not to be confused with only commandment) stipulates that you first love God with all your heart, mind, body and soul - this before anything else.
And when the same Jesus Christ goes on to state that those who love Him are those who submit to and obey (Faith) His commandments & teachings, going by your claim there, are we to assent that Jesus Christ didn't in fact mean a word of this?

see, I can always identify why this simple logic is difficult for you to understand.

Have you ever heard what is called the law of excluded middle?

Go and learn that law, come back and see how it applies here

budaatum:
See! It sure takes a lot of asking and knocking and seeking to find that which is hidden.

In fact, it takes a lot of asking and knocking and seeking to even realise that something might be hidden and needs to be searched for in the first place!

Those who do not ask and knock and seek for that which is hidden will merely believe and tremble like those who build their faith on sand.

Your Faith, Paxonel, is built on the Solid Rock of Understanding.

thanks bro!

Obviously, the world today is disunited along religious lines due to inability of people that are into religion to understand the basic fundamentals of their religious books(bible,quran or whatever) as a result of certain hidden facts in these books.

Until we read these books carefully and meticulously, religion will continue to be a problem.