₦airaland Forum

CharisEleos:
Can a born-again sister who wishes to have a baby of her own but does not desire marriage go for IVF?

Is it a sin?

Please only Mature Christians with sound spiritual life should advise.

what is sinful about what does not affect you or another person negatively?

Kobojunkie:
1. Where do you get that Jesus Christ has indeed forgiven you your past, and future sins, by the way?

I just quoted while we are yet sinners Christ died for us.
If he had not forgiven us he would not have died at the state when we are yet sinners
He would have died after we repented, but that wasn't the case.
Rather,his death was done in advance and it was done once to cover our future transgressions, so there will be no need for Christ to die again the second time because we have sinned the second time.

Romans 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

2. Assuming Jesus did indeed forgive you all your sins, including the ones you have yet to commit, then why did He insist on us obeying Him .I.e., not sinning against God?

you correctly mentioned that the reason why Jesus died was to defeat death and give us eternal life, that is not the same reason Jesus will insist that we should obey his laws, that's why I told you those laws have been in existence long before Christ came to die, and has nothing to do with Christ even though Christ emphasized on them.
So why will Christ insist on this laws?
Because these laws are the background of success on this earth to everyone including we Christians.

Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Note that these laws were also given to Joshua long before Christ came, so there is nothing new about them.

What did Jesus Christ insist on speaking in Parables

parables were meant to hide the mysteries of God's kingdom to the Pharisees and reveal them to the disciples. Matthew 13:10

and what was the point of the teachings, and commands that suggest our righteousness should be greater than even that of the Pharisees if at the end of the day, we can all walk straight past Him to claim a piece of His kingdom despite our sins and hence our unrighteousmess?

there are two kinds of righteousness of which one is greater than the other.
The righteousness of God through Christ(Romans 3:22) is greater than the righteousness through keeping the laws because the former qualifies one to eternal life and it's a gift from God. That is the righteousness Jesus wanted his disciples to have which is greater than the righteousness of the Pharisees, and the only way they could have that righteousness was for them to wait until Jesus die and resurrected.
we don't work to get the righteousness
But the later kind of righteousness(which the Pharisees had) only helps everyone(both the disciples and the Pharisees) to live successfully here on this earth as mentioned in Joshua 1:8

Why did He do all that - and He spent more than 3 years teaching these things day and night to His disciples,

because had limited time and he wanted his disciples to live uprightly while preaching the gospel

mind you- if after all is said and done, there are no real penalties for sin?

who said so?
When you lie what do you expect?
Ofcourse people will not trust anymore and you know the implications of that?
But again, it does not stop you from going to heaven, infact you are in heaven like this committing sin and no one can take that from you because heaven is a gift from God.

When you give gifts to people you don't take it back from them no matter what

Why was Judas considered lost when after all, all he did was commit sin against Jesus Christ who supposedly forgave us all our sins, past, present and future?

let me tell you why Judas was a betrayer. He pretended to be one of the disciples but meanwhile he did not believe in his heart from the beginning, so when opportunity arises, he strucked.
It wasn't that Jesus did not forgive him, he was the one that did not forgive himself.

But one thing i know for sure is, if Judas had remorsefully realized at the end that the same Jesus he betrayed was the Christ and regretted his actions and repented before killing himself then he is already in heaven

And why did Jesus Christ teach us the Lord's prayer, having us ask for forgiveness of sins

if you sin against anyone courtesy demands that you should ask for forgiveness. It goes to everyone, not only Christians.

we have committed every single time we pray, beginning that we not be led into anymore temptation and be delivered from evil?

that is because there are consequences of doing evil here on this earth

Kobojunkie:
Salvation is from Death and you are gifted with eternal life(grace) as a result , this in place of Death - john 3 vs 16 - 21 & John 3 vs 36

If Salvation had been from sin, then the gift that would have made most sense in that case would have been Holiness. Sadly, that is not to case!

So you have to so as Jesus Christ instructs, in John 8 vs 31 - 44, if your goal is to overcome your sins so you can belong to God - Son of God.

well, what i will say is, Jesus taking away the sins of the world does not necessarily mean that he has stopped people of the world or believers from committing sin.
It means he has forgiven our sins including the ones we are yet to commit in the future.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Kobojunkie:
1. The one you responded to is very correct. The world that John the Baptist spoke of at the time was the world before the New Covenant. Even Jesus Christ endorsed this when He declared that He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, the sinners of God's Old Covenant Law of that time.

2. Jesus Christ offered Salvation from Death to all those who will obey His call to believe in Him. So those who obey are those who are given eternal life, whereas those who refuse to obey Him are those who remain condemned to the wrath of God - Death, as you pointed out yourself in John 3 vs 36.

How is Jesus Christ offering salvation different from him taking away the sins of the world?

enilove:
The truth is bitter .Iwas not abusing you but just telling you the truth that you don't understand the Bible .

No!
Let's call a spade a spade, don't lie!
You actually committed a blunder, a fallacy calling me a spiritual dwarf or lillipucian without explaining your point first.
Now, that is attacking the personality

1)
When and where did Paul had problems with his faith in Christ ?

I didn't say Paul had problem with his faith. I only said it was possible for someone to convince him that Jesus is not the Christ, perhaps the Pharisees could have done that. If that had happened then he would have been a castaway inspite that he preached Christ

What evidence do you have to prove that Paul was trying not to leave his faith ?

let me state that even the persecution Paul went through was enough for him to abandon the faith. Many Christian faithfuls denied Christ at the intense of the persecution they went through and they became castaway from Christ, but Paul didn't.
So, it's not about whether they sinned or not, it's about them holding their faith in Christ till the end.

Paul said :
1 Corinthians 9:27 KJV
BUT I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

see, just read from the beginning of that chapter till the end, you will see that Paul was summoned and tried by his prosecutors who tried to deprived Christians of certain rights.
When he says BUT I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, and bring it into subjection, he was referring to subjection to Christ inspite all odds of persecution, not subjection to his ability to avoid committing sin

2) Isaiah 1:8 is not saying you should go back to your sins after God has forgiven you your sins.

I'm not saying you should go back to your sin either.
I'm saying that your salvation has nothing to do with you going back to your sin or not.
Salvation is a separate thing entirely

Ezekiel 18:21-24 KJV
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
[22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
[23] Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God : and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

very true scriptures!
But these scriptures are not made in the standpoint of salvation through Christ.
These scriptures are just the normal judgement of this life, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
You sin you die
If you don't sin you live.

Jesus the Great Judge said :

Revelation 22:11-12 KJV
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

and if you read the final judgement in revelation 22, it was based on whether or not the individual name was written in the book of life.
How was their names found there in that book?
Because they believe in Christ, not because they were just.

Hence the just shall live by their faith, not by what they do

imagrg:
Jesus Christ did not come to take away your sins.

is this suppose to be a slip of tongue or something, how do you explain this ?

John 1:29 ....Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

He came to teach you the way to doing God's Will. You are only saved from sin by the GRACE of God derived from doing this Will.

this one is big lie o!

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

If you are saved by doing his will that he thought you then that is works and you will begin to boast that it was because your ability to do God's will.
But thank God it's not like that, because how many people can possibly do God's will by their ability?
No one!

Sin is born out your spirit because the spirit are of two kinds: evil and Holy. If you are inclined towards evil, that spirit will overwhelm you, but if on the contrary, you will experience the bliss of God physically and spiritually.

have you ever seen anyone discharged in a court of law because it was said that there was a spirit that influenced him to commit the crime he committed?
You can never see such

So, my friend, stop recruiting people into evil practices. According to the scripture, the soul that sinneth shall die both spiritually and physically.

enilove:
Like I said earlier , you are a spiritual Lilliputian . You are not fit to talk about the Bible because you are a spiritual dwarf .

We are not fighting we are here to learn,
stop insulting and attacking me like Boko haram, if you do it again i will simply ignore you.
You had the option of not to comment at all, it is not by force

Here is Paul who was Holy Spirit filled talking about how he was subduing his body so as not to go to hell:

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 KJV
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
[27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

I didn't say a Christian cannot be a castaway after being a Christian. It is very possible for a Christian to be a castaway and that is only possible when the Christian leave the faith.
So, Paul was doing everything possible not to leave the faith by someone else who is an unbeliever convincing him that Jesus is not the Christ, seeing that he was also a preacher of the faith.

It is a big shame to say '' Because the spirit lives inside the body.
So, whether the body is swimming in river of sin, it has nothing to do with the spirit inside him.''

in order words, it's a big shame to say there is Grace through Christ and that Grace is powerful enough to cleans your sin no matter how the sin is?

To you, writer of this scripture should be assumed too

Isaiah 1: 8 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

The above is why you are a spiritual dwarf and spiritually ignorant of the things of God.

you don't have any reasonable adequate argument to call me that. Perhaps you misunderstood my point, may be you should have asked further questions for clarification, now you don fall your hand

Point of correction , I am a man .

your kind of man needs deliverance from ignorance

Choi!

Na Buhari cause am now!

Iceflox:
the human imagination and that of God are quite different, you know

Absolutely

That's the Archbishop

Kobojunkie:
1. According to John 3 vs 18 and John 3 vs 36, those who do not believe at all in Jesus Christ do not have a part in eternity, right - unbelievers remain condemned to Death?

However, those who are slated for Hell do so for eternity. So how does one who is condemned to perish in the grave also be expected to endure everlasting/ eternal punishment in Hell?

is there any difference between hell and grave?
I don't think so

2. No, they are not all the same laws.

ok

Azammmi:
All this false doctrines sef

explain yourself!
What exactly is false?

orisa37:
Not in the Bible. It's ABACHA AND BUHARI'S OPINION. It's a MIS-OPINION.

Then you have not achieved anything by commenting

Kobojunkie:
2. What do you mean by "inability to accept Jesus Christ"?

not willing to believe that Jesus is the Christ

3. That too is Jesus Christ's teaching, so also is His teaching that instructs that you avoid the leaven of the Pharisees...everything Jesus Christ commanded is found in His teachings.

but those laws were already given to the Israelites long before Jesus came?

Kobojunkie:
1. I bring Ananias and Saphira as examples of God's judgment against sins committed by those who believe. And as you admit, God does indeed judge the flesh and spirit of those who believe in Jesus Christ, for their sins that is.

confirm!

2. So you are trying to say instead that those who will be lead off to eternal damnation will not be judged by their sins ?

at all, they will not be judged by their sins either, but by their inability to accept Christ

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So the basis of their judgement is that their names were not written in the book of life

3. Every Word spoken by Jesus Christ constitutes His teaching.

How about this one, is it also Jesus teaching or the law of Moses?

Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

MaxInDHouse:
Your inability to conquer the flesh is not your fault {Matthew 26:41} James admonished Christians saying:

"Is any among you afflicted ? let him pray. Is any merry ? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you ? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him" James 5:13-15

That's why we have ELDERS in the Christian congregation!

absolutely

Kobojunkie:
John 3 vs 36, is essentially saying what we are previously told in John 3 vs 18 of those who refuse to believe in Jesus Christ - unbelievers.

However, when you look closely at Jesus Christ's teachings, you find that Jesus Christ repeatedly states that those of His own flock who love Him are those who do as He commands - obedience- whereas those who refuse to obey His commands - disobedience- are those who are sinners. in John 15 vs 14, Jesus Christ outright declares that those who do as He commands them to are His friends,implying that those who do not do as He commands are His enemies - among His own flock

ok,
What exactly was Jesus commands to them?

Kobojunkie:
1. So, God does indeed judge both the flesh and spirit of those who believe in Jesus Christ when sin is committed?

you have started your irrelevant logic again abi?


You only brought the case of Ananias and Saphira, does that have anything to do with how God judge other people?

It is not all cases God will judge both the flesh and the spirit like that of Ananias and saphira.

Ananias and Saphira died because God killed them directly as a deterrent to other believers at the time
Some other people will commit sin and it will not be God that kill them directly in the flesh
Some will sin and die in the flesh by the law,
Some by kama.
Some will not even die until they grow old and have a natural death

2. These are your words that I am trying to understand So, when you disobey God's command, I.e. sin, God does not give a damn about your fleshly sin against him?

remember I said God is a spirit!
When i said God's judgment i meant spirual judgment like hell fire, not physical killing

3. When Jesus Christ declared that only those who obey His teachings and commandments belong to Him that is not to be construed as judgment against those who disobey(Sin) Him?

what exactly is Jesus teachings are you referring to?

Kobojunkie:
1. Since Sin is simply a choice made in disobedience of God's Law, it is those who are under Law who commit sin against God.

the last time i checked no Christian(believer) is under the law :

1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So, no Christian is a sinner before God no matter what he does and therefore cannot go to hell.

2. Unbelievers are those who are not under Law and so they do not commit sins against God

? ? ?

- they have already been judged and condemned and are living waiting sentencing

true!

In fact. They are those previously condemned to Death by God beginning from Adam - Genesis 3 vs 17- 19 - and were described by Jesus Christ as the dead.

ok

3. You claim God will only judge a one by his spirit so when God judged Ananias and Saphira, was that judgment of their spirits?

their judgement was both of the flesh and of the spirit. Note, God has the power to kill in both the flesh and in the spirit. Matthew 10:28
They were judged of the flesh in that they died in the flesh.
They were judged of the spirit in that, since they were believers before they died, that alone has already justified them to heaven inspite their greed, so they did not die in the spirit.

John 3:16...whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life

4. God does not give a damn whether you disobey His commands or not?

in terms of the spirit

MaxInDHouse:
He is trying to explain what is beyond his grasp!

God will not judge anyone because of their sins, but He will judge people on the bases of their heart condition.
So no matter what you've done in the past it's how remorseful you are about those atrocities that will determine your fate! Luke 23:39-43

However once you've known what is wrong try to work on your flesh so as not to allow it to lead you back to such wrong desires! Galatians 5:19-21

if she cannot work on her flesh and she goes back to her wrong desires then she will go to hell fire?

That means everyone will go to hell fire like that now.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

enilove:
You are another spiritual Lilliputian like the Jehovah's witness organization members. In fact , they are a little above you.

you go school at all?

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 KJV
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


1 Corinthians 3:16-17 KJV
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
[17] If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

so, what is your point? are these scriptures you quoted not suppose to serve as advice to Christians that they should not commit sin rather than using the scriptures to judge them ?

You said :
God does not give a damn about your fleshy actions good or bad, he is not interested.
All he want is for you to key to the spirit for your justification.

very true!
God is like a father advicing a disobedient child. If the child like let him take the advice, if he doesn't take the advice then he must face the consequences.
God doesn't give a damn!
He is not a respecter of any person.

How do you key to the Spirit when you are committing sin with your body ?

you have seen a living human body, sure!
But have you ever seen a human spirit before?
The answer is no!
why?
Because the spirit lives inside the body.
So, whether the body is swimming in river of sin, it has nothing to do with the spirit inside him.

John 3:6 says That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Flesh and spirit are two separate entity though they are merged while the individual is alive, but the moment the person dies, they are separated.

Hence, a believer is born of the spirit while an unbeliever is born of the flesh.

A believer is born of the spirit, that spirit can never be separated from him by means of his sins. The gift of righteousness from God is without repentance.
Righteousness is a gift, it is not what we do.

An unbeliever, whether he sins or not is already separated from the spirit.

How can you key to the Spirit when the Spirit is not living in your defiled body ?

Can you show me scripture to proof that the spirit is not living in your defiled body?

On the contrary :

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

OP , are you a Christian at all ?

you better have knowledge and change my sister

donbachi:
Check Proverb 6:16

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

Whatever it is, note that proverb was old testament order.
But with Christ nothing is abomination than the other.
All sin is sin

Iceflox:
that means i should just go about committing sin?

whatever God chooses to do with you and your sinfulness he created you and he reserve the prerogative right to be merciful to you and there is nothing i can do.

But if you offend me i may not be merciful o

donbachi:
wat do u see as sin?

I'm a human, any wrong doing is sin.
But I shouldn't use my own to assume that God thinks like me

kernniejay:
That is your opinion, not in the bible.

no, not my opinion but the bibles opinion.
It is must that you should accept that truth or you will never be merciful

donbachi:
So,wat act can be classified as sin?

remember, humans are physical, anything wrong doing is sin to them.
But God doesn't classify sin that way.
To God who is a spirit, refusal to believe that Jesus has come to take away sin, is sin.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Every sin you commit is done by your flesh.
Your flesh is physical, all your actions there in, good or bad are physical.
God is a spirit, he will only judge you by your spirit.
Infact, everything about Christianity is spirit, only that it needs your flesh to actualize the fruits of the spirit which are love, joy, peace..

The fruits of the spirit are not spirits, they are what humans can do which we can see.
Anybody, can live the fruits the spirit, it is not only meant for Christians. Likewise, anyone can commit sin. Sin is not only meant for unbelievers. Because both the fruits of the spirit and sin are all of the flesh.

But what is spirit is spirit, it is not of the flesh.
God is a spirit.
God does not give a damn about your fleshy actions good or bad, he is not interested.
All he want is for you to key to the spirit for your justification.

Now, this message may appear to you that the op is encouraging you to go and sin, but that is not the case.
As a matter of fact, that your consciousness of trying to be self righteous is what is pushing you to commit sin the more, you may not know.

Christianity is spirit and it does not require your flesh to practice it.
Jesus says my kingdom is not of this world.
But guess what, your flesh and your self righteousness is of this world. The day you fail to maintain that your self righteousness you profess(of which certainly you will fail because you are human), people of this world will thread on you(not God, because God will never judge you)
But if you are humble and seek mercy always, people of this world will be merciful to you on that day of your failure including God himself.

MaxInDHouse:
What the bolded means:

Whatever you've accumulated while you were unknowingly worshiping Mammon, use it to make friends with those who will remember you when money becomes useless!

Most of us have accumulated riches before we become Christians and no riches is 100% clean so Jesus now urges us that when we become Christians we shouldn't think of keeping those riches to ourselves rather we should be ready to spend it for the kingdom good news so that by the time we are dead (when money can't help us) Jehovah God and Jesus Christ will remember us in our graves and call us out as those who have used the unrighteous riches to make friends with them!
That's the practical application!



Jesus is issuing a warning to his followers who later were called Christians in Antioch {Act 11:26} so he was actually talking to Christians!

OK o

MaxInDHouse:
According to Jesus many will claim they are Christians but in reality they're worshipers of Mammon (the god of Riches)

Are you sure?

Please read the scripture again.

It says

"... Make to yourselves friends of the Mammon of unrighteousness;..

Meaning, make yourselves friends of the unrighteous money so that they will remember you when you fail..

Jesus never mentioned Christians being worshippers of mammon there

Yo

I

Yes