₦airaland Forum

solite3:
don't worry yourself what the op wrote only apply to Christians.

the op, wasn't faulty in the first place.
Your last statement saying that men do not determine what equality or right should be is very faulty.

And if this your last statement is a deduction from the op, then the op is a mess already, geared at messing up christianity and downgrading it before unbelievers and God will not be happy with you.

Christianity world-wide upholds justice and equity at all levels including how men should relate with women and that's what the bible teaches.

Perhaps the op is reasoning scriptures based on primitive African mentality which is already outdated a long time ago

solite3:
God determines what equality and right should be not sinful men and women.

lie!

God don't determine everything on earth!

Humans were given the power to decide on certain things .

Equality and rights are what humans should create for themselves.

Females are different type of humans does not mean that males should infringe on their rights.
Being submissive to their husband's at home is their right and nature and should not be equated to weakness .

A man who has decided to treat his wife equally by giving her,her own respect inspite the differences is his own determination, not God.

In orderwords, feminism and gender equality or upholding the rights of women in the society are not the same thing.

But the baba is loosing?

He is not working, is he not the one hating like that?

Now this the statement of nollywood actor turning politician.

If the South East supports any other person asides Buhari for the presidency, they would wonder in the wilderness for the next eight years''(meaning, igbos will not produce a president come 2023).actor Kenneth Okonkwo says

Consider the state of the economy how people are suffering under this buhari regime including the south east, is it sensible for the igbos to abandon solutions to Nigerian problems which is kicking out buhari, in search for 2023 presidency?

dalaman:
Gender equality and marriage equality (same sex marriages) are both desirable by many . Many people believe gays have as much right to get married as straight people.

Do you support justice and equity for same sex marriage?

ofcourse yes!
Same sex marriage is very irritating to me by natural instinct does not mean that i should stand by the way of people who finds it desirable.

Its a free world, my interaction with them should be,
Go ahead and do whatever you want but don't call me to see it cos it's irritating,

Now, that's justice for me and you.

Simple.

alBHAGDADI:
You know what your problem is? You are quick to reject anything that has to do with God, and that has blinded you to the point that you can't even understand simple English. You make it seem like the verse is just about women teaching fornication. Let's see if that's the only thing the verse said.

Revelations 2:20
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

It says to teach and to seduce. This means Jesus is against women not only seducing peOple to commit fornication, but also teaching. Please try lower your hate for truth and God, because it will help you a lot in things as little as understanding simple English.

ok,
From your own understanding, the scripture mentioned "TO TEACH" as a seperate entity
Then "TO SEDUCE" as another entity different from to teach.
That it was not referring the woman Jezebel teaching seduction?

Ok, no wahalla

Whether she teach people to seduce or not the point is, she was seducing people herself and Jesus was reacting to her wrong not to the fact that she was a woman teaching

If the woman Jezebel was not truly seducing people don't you think that christ will not have problem of her teaching?

Because I am not seeing Rev Funke Adejumo seducing people, I'm seeing her teaching, so she can never fall into the category of Jezebel

dalaman:
God himself according to the bible saI'd he is the same yesterday today and forever. He made the statement himself according to the bible. So what exactly are you saying? Or do you disagree with the statement from the biblical God?

a lot of Christians when they are asked, why are they so dogmatic enough to express their false view or doctrines without looking at the other side of facts, they will say God is the same, yesterday, today and forever, nothing can change him.

Doctrines are not God
If God is not changing doctrines can be changed to suit the present realities of life so long that such realities are desirable.

Gender equality is something desirable and should not be creepled by wrong doctrines or beliefs.

As a matter of fact, Christians should be at the forefront pursuing justice and equity going by the legacies of Jesus Christ.

alBHAGDADI:
I'm sorry, I should have known you didn't read the OP at all. Now see the portion of the book of Revelations where Jesus said the same thing as Paul .

Revelations 2:20

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Now, if you still want to argue blindly, then I'm not your entertaining party.

and i have said there is no female preacher who is encouraging her member to commit fornication, not even funke adejumo who is scamming people.

That Rev. Funke is scamming people not because she is a female.

alBHAGDADI:
Will you shut up with your bloody heresy?

and you think this your fundamentalistic approach of attacking without being reasonable will work in christianity this modern day?
You must be joking

How dare you rubbish Apostle Paul' word against women teaching? Don't you know he was speaking under the authority of Jesus Christ when he made that statement? Even Jesus Christ Himself supported his stance in the book of Revelations when He pointed out the wrongs the 7 churches of Asia were doing.

if it was truly Jesus stance like you said, show me where revelation indicated that women speaking to address the church was part of the wrongs Jesus pointed out out

Revelations 2:20
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

is there any man or woman teaching Christians and to seduce them to commit fornication today?

If there is anything like that today, trust me, that kind church will never last.

No Female pastor or male pastor do encourage fornication to his or her members.

All these one you are misinterpreting revelation just to suit your point, i don't know.

Look at the way you rubbished Paul's clear teaching backed up by Jesus, simply because of your own selfish gain. No wonder see Funke Adejumo is scamming your likes.

Mr man you must learn to be objective you are not practicing Islam here.

The woman is a scammer we all know that.
We also have male pastors scamming people too.
Infact, she learnt the scamming from her male colleagues.

All I'm saying is, scamming does not depend on whether the pastor is male or female

..That is to say the words of Jesus which is the same as what Paul said

not this one that has to do with women addressing the church or not.

Yes, Paul was speaking the mind of christ at every point in time, but some other times he was proned to mistakes like every other human and this particular one that has to with women preaching was a mistake.

Perhaps out ignorance that times were going to change.

Are we now to throw the new testament Bible away, because last I remember, Paul wrote majority of it?

if you choose to throw the whole new testament away that's your own cup of tea.

You are likened to be a hungry man throwing the whole fruit away simply because he just discovered a tiny black spot on it.

A wise man will use knife and calve out the black spot and the whole fruit is fit enough again for consumption.

You have heard of how boko haram kills infidels?
They got the doctrine from the Quran

But how is it is not all Muslims who hates infidels?
Because wise Muslims calve out doctrines that are not compartible to justice and equity in the society.

The same thing applies here.
Female marginalization can never be compatible to the church, the family or society.
Not this modern day again.

People like you can go ahead and support homosexuals and every vile things Paul wrote against, and leave us to continue following his word.

so because I'm against marginalization of females I'm automatically supporting homosexuality?
You try

You are a satanist telling Christians to throw away the Bible.

that is your own view

May God punish you for this.

don't sound like a religious terrorist, God is not one

dalaman:
You guys are very funny. Most of you do NOT believe in the entire bible , you only pick and chose the parts you like, turn a blind eye to the parts you don't like or give them your own alternate interpretation.

Which part of the bible was not written for the people living at that time? Which injunction was not written based on the life style of the people living at that time?

specifically, people of Paul of the apostles time who were Christians were never mandated to offer sacrifices of ram for the atonement of their sins.

Yet Ram was sacrificed in the bible yes or no?

Do you see now that certain things are changing as times are changing?
That God is not the same, yesterday, today and forever as we Christians are putting him to be?

Anyway the OP has chosen to follow a failed path because most Christians today especially in the west will not accept the stupid sexism espoused by the bible. They will rather abandon the religion entirely than accept this nonsensical sexism.

its their own decision to abandon the religion, not a decision for everyone.

The bottom line is that the writers of the bible did NOT know that the world will evolve to what it is now,

that's the point

everything they wrote they wrote using their own knowledge and level of advancement .

not everything dear,
Don't generalize

They even had God writing people's name and reading it out on scrolls of papyrus, Angels using trumpets and swords and Jesus coming down riding on horse back. They never knew people will be using jet engines and rocket engines to go into space and for inter planetary travels, books and computers for writing and storage of data, microphoes, high caliber assult rifles etc. They were busy writing about their God using primitive and ancient thrash to judge the world and attack mankind.

that is because the writers were truly primitive, an actual indication that what they are writing is true.

True because there was little education at that time

1 Timothy 2:12

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

take not of the emboldened
"I"
WHO?
who are you that is speaking?
God?

Let me state this clearly, at the time of ignorance God ignored certain things humans do on earth.

In the days of Paul the apostle many women were never educated including men too.

But because even an average illiterate man by nature can think faster and have certain understanding than the average woman, women were always at the mercy of asking men who also lark understanding questions about the general life. And the closest men they could get to ask questions is their husbands at home.
That was how it was in those days.

Even in Africa, not too long generation ago it was like that because there was no universities or colleges.

So understand that when Paul was talking it was talking based on how life used to be in their generation and it was his own personal suggest based on his experience with women of that generation that they usually lack understanding and possibly disgrace themselves and the church if they were allowed to speak.

therefore Paul saying that suffer not the women to preach was his own personal suggestion back then and should not be applied to women of this modern day who are far educated and vast in understanding.

Do you get that?

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

what law?
Jewish law or the 10 commandment?

By the way why should they remain silent, what wrong have they done for being women?

35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

disgraceful
How?
Please explain?

When has it become disgraceful for just mere speaking to the public?

Christians need to wake up, certain things you read in bible should not be allowed to influence people to do what is not right this modern day.

Christ has given us the power to decide.

In as much that this woman is fraudulent there is nothing wrong in women preaching on pulpit don't be gender discriminative

God is not interested in church and offering anymore Mr man.

All God want you to do is,believe in him for your eternal life and go and live your life.

All these church, offering this offering that, God nor send una

CodeTemplar:
No we can't assume that. You see the bible is one big analogy about the spiritual but since the spirit realm is invisible to the physical eyes, God used a lot of physical process to model and explain the spirit realm. One of the things that qualifies you for protection is your service in Gods kingdom and not just professing salvation and faith. You can't read a mans heart 100% only God can.

what do you mean by service in God's kingdom,
Is it service in church, like being chorister, usher or something?

Movic1:
They didn't donate 7 schools but donated to 7 schools in ibadan..

ok,
That's good!

But this adeboye son, which work he dey do for living sef?

Did rccg actually donate 7 schools in ibadan?

This people can lie o

5/ Now what did Jesus say, is needed, as a qualification, for someone, to enter into the kingdom, to set foot on and into the kingdom?

just believe in him that's all. John 3:16

Just believe in him the kingdom already right here with you, you don't need to do anything else.

You are a christian that means you already believe, you have the kingdom already.

The kingdom is christianity.

Just go about live your life freely, that's all.

Maximus85:
Let's me explain it better.

But first,
Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

That kingdom is coming from where?

we all know that the kingdom is already here with us it is not something that is expected to come again, though it was expected to come at the era before Jesus crucifixion and resurrection.
But after Jesus died and resurrected the kingdom was freely given to as many people that believe at that point.

And as many of us that have received the kingdom he has freely given it to us and we have been translated into the kingdom already. Col 1:13

Not some few twelve people

enilove:
The purpose of tithing is to appreciate God for His provisions for us.

not for us!
It is a mistake to personify it in the first place.
It was for them in the old testament, not now again.
Even Jews this modern day don't pay tithe, what for?

Abraham was the first to tithe without the any specific law or instructions. After the Israelites got to the promised land God instructed the Israelites to continue in that act.

Since we are children of Abraham by faith , we should or are expected to appreciate God by giving tenth of our income to God as well.

by what faith?
The christian faith or the Jewish faith of the old testament?
Do you know that by our christian faith we are greater than Abraham?
Abraham never had opportunity to be christian in his days.

Giving is part and parcel of the doctrines of the Gospel.

giving and tithing are two different thing.

The truth is that we are expected to do more than giving of tithes like what Apostles practiced :

the apostles practiced giving,not tithing. Infact there is no scripture that indicated that the apostles tithed

Acts 4:34-37 KJV
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
[35] And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
[36] And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
[37] Having land, sold it , and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

does this scripture sound like tithing to you?
This is giving and shearing now

enilove:
THESE YOU SHOULD HAVE PRACTICED ( TITHING ) AND NOT NEGLECT..

OK!
I have seen what you mean!

If you try to understand Jesus, he is not against anyone practicing the laws of their tradition where the individual comes from so long the law is not bad.

Note that tithing was not a bad law, so Jesus couldn't possibly go against it.

As a matter of fact Jesus was good enough to encourage the Jews to uphold their tithing law that was why he said THIS YOU SHOULD HAVE PRACTICED(not for you Nigerians).
And he will never support a situation where the law will be enforced to non Jews

Every culture and tradition of the world have their own laws, tithing was a traditional law for the Jews alone just like Yoruba or Hausa having some laws peculiar to them that are good, no Yoruba or hausa law has ever been enforced to the Jews you can't even try it.

Now, assuming you are hausa, and the yorubas by law were mandated to pay tribute money to oba of ile ife, will it be fair for any Yoruba man to compel you who is not yoruba to obey the law?
The same thing applies, you are not from the Jewish tribe, perhaps you are from any tribe in Nigeria.
No Jewish pastor have the right to compel you to pay their traditional tithe talkless of a Nigerian pastor doing that to you.

And these Nigerian pastors, they are not levites of the Jewish tribe, yet they are pocketing the money.
Is that not fraudulent distortion of Nigerians who have no understanding of scriptures?

Maximus85:
After the Lord's evening meal, Jesus told them what the meal stood for.

Luke 22:28-30
However, you are the ones who have stuck with me+ in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones+ to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

Did you noticed that he selected the 12? He also made a covenant with them for a kingdom just like his father did with him. And their job with him in heaven is to rule over the 12 tribe of Judah (the earth)

Was he talking to his disciples in general or the selected few? Note that Jesus once refer to the selected as little flock and the rest he called other sheep.

Any question before we proceed?

are you saying that only twelve were selected for the kingdom?

Maximus85:
I'm glad you know this. You just said they were SELECTED. They didn't decide on their own to be selected. Good. So, what was the significance of the last super Jesus Christ had with them and why didn't Jesus had it with all of his disciples?

I don't know,
Now you tell me the significance of why only twelve were selected for the passover, I'm learning.

But whatever answer you are giving it will never dispute the fact that there was nothing like christianity on earth as at that time of the passover. And that christianity as a religion or faith only came up after Jesus resurrected.

enilove:
A reasonable person doesn't abuse .

sorry if you were offended but i must say it's time to leave these pastors

What about where Jesus told us that tithing is necessary ?

necessary for what, were is that?

Matthew 23:23 KJV
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

this is not saying that tithe is necessary now.
As a matter of fact it is saying the oppopposite.

The scribes and Pharisees omitted the weightier matters which is the 10 commandments.
The 10 commandments are far weightier than tithe laws and they omitted it and promote tithe just like today pastors are doing, that's why Jesus said to them wore unto you

enilove:
He is agent of Satan.
Before Freeze was born , Christians have been importing the Bible ( English , Yoruba etc ) into the country for their learning.


Jesus Christ himself told us that he did not come to destroy the law and whosoever teaches anyone to break the law shall be called the least among men.

Matthew 5:17-19 KJV
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The brain of Daddy Freeze is frozen , that is why he is not thinking rightly.

To be under the law means to carryout all the BLOOD sacrifices prescribed for atonement of sins under the law of Moses. But the laws like the TEN COMMANDMENTS ETC are to be followed by Christians .

There is no where in the Bible where Jesus told us to abandon the laws.

Jesus also told us that PAYMENT OF TITHE IS A NECESSITY :

Luke 11:42 KJV
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


ALL HE DOES IS TO ATTACK THE CHURCH. HE HAS NOT SEEN ANY EVIL IN WHAT THE MUSLIMS ARE DOING AGAINST CHRISTIANS LIKE THE THE CASE OF Leah Shuab.

you see your life?
Christ was not referring to the Jewish laws which includes tithing, sacrifices, etc.
Jesus was strictly referring to the 10 commandments.
Thou shall not kill
Thou shall not lie
Thou shall not bear false witness
honor your father and mother etc

These are the laws and prophets he didn't come to destroy, not the Jewish law of tithing

Remember he started from verse 16 by saying let your light so shine before men?
Tithing was not even mentioned anywhere in that chapter i don't know what you are talking.

We only shine our light by not killing, not lying, not bearing false witness, etc.
Not by paying tithe

Who tithe don help since?

Maximus85:
How many did he call to the last super and why?

12
Because they were the selected apostles, not just disciples

Oya check out this one

Maximus85:
The bolded is a complement where you come from, I guess.

it was not a complement or an insult either,
It was geared to encourage you to think or meditate while reading

Maximus85:
First, how many disciples does Jesus had when he was here on earth?

they were over 5000 of them

Op. You dey find trouble abi?

Abi you won spoil market for people wetin dey do you seff?

Maximus85:
You had to throw an insult to make your point.

where is the insult, kindly indicate please.

I don't blame you. You've only shown where you're coming from and where you belong.

I will not respond to this

John's Baptism was for the confession of sin.

very true

My Bible tells me about three baptisms. By Water, Spirit and Fire. I don't know what Christian baptism is sir.

whether it is fire or water or spirit what i meant by christian baptism is any baptism done to believers after the resurrection of christ and not before.
Do you realize that there was nothing like christianity on earth until christ resurrected?
That simply means John did not baptize people into christianity

I was angry cos of you insult. I had to calm down so that I can read your comment with a straight mind. But you didn't pass anything right. Pls don't insult me again.

check my comment again i did not insult but only making sensitive corrections.
But whether you take it or not it really do not matter, so don't be angry

Imagin a pastor kid who was born with the talent to be the next davido or wizkid, my guy, that pastor kid will have a lot of battle to fight.