₦airaland Forum

menesheh:
I didn't say that faith is an antagony to evidence. I said that they are in opposite sides. Is like saying that A is B instead of A is A.

You are serious talking about Christain faith as if it is different from normal english language word faith.

As you said, from the BOLDED, we all know that Jesus is the founder of Christianity because it was written in a book. That it was written in a book without evidence to back it up doesn't make true. We have many similar story written and believed by many people.


Question for you: can you differentiate between "Christian faith" and normal english word "faith".

yes, opposite sides, that is what it means to be antagonistic.
sorry, I spell the word wrongly, it is not antagostic.
it's true that when you tell most Christians facts using evidence, Some of them will resolve it with the bible by saying the bible is absolutely right without even understanding the bible's position in the matter, and ignore whatever actual evidence that you are presenting to them.
we have heard a case where galeleo says the earth was spherical and the church killed him for it, because they think it was wrong to say such since the bible didnt mention it like that.
There are christians that are like that today,some even say it is wrong to take drugs, let's depend on miracles for healing.
such things are antagonistic to science, evidence and reasoning
But not all christians are like that.
some of us study to find out tangible evidence.
Example is what i just presented to you,that Jesus prophesied in parable the growth of Christianity.
You say there are similar stories like this? that someone prophesied something that is happening this generation a long time ago?
is it Nostrademus or Thomus mathus?
tell me.
Ok, to differentiate between the christian faith and the English faith.
From the oxford definition you gave
3. A particular religion
every other definitions came from this one definition, a particular religion.
for instance,
1. Complete trust or confidence in someone or
something.
You must belong to a particular religion first (believe in God or something ) before you completely trust God or have confidence in whatever you believe or your prophet for car, money, house etc
so you, see how it works.
what most christians define as faith is, believing in God for car, money, house, miracles etc
But what the Bible define as faith is a particular religion which is the Christian faith or Christianity . that is, to believe in Jesus for eternal life only.
not for car, money, house, miracles etc.
that is why you see me laying emphasis on the Christian faith

Scholar8200:
The rapture would precede the Great tribulation. The pre-rapture believers are not the tribulation saints referred to in Revelations 7:14 & 20:4. Besides, the rapture described in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 does not fit into the 7yr tribulation period; it precedes it. Furthermore, the coming of Jesus after the tribulation is not to take saints to Heaven (rapture) but to overthrow the antichrist and commence the millenial reign see Revelations 19:11-21 & 20:1-6.

you are just talking figuratively like the book of revelation without giving the op the interpretation to the revelations thereby further confusing the op the more.
note: revelation is written with figurative language and there are internal meaning of each elements.
the accient Catholic church who postulated this idea never put this in consideration.
today Christians are now taking the idea to confuse themselves

@op, you are very right by saying that it is evidence that determines whether a perception of reality is valid or not, but it is not true that faith is antagonistic to evidence.
As a matter of fact the Christian faith is the evidence you athiests are all searching for, the only available solution and all answer to your questions (i speak for Christianity )
it is right at your door step, lifted on the cross of Calvary for the whole world to see
Hebrews 11:1 says Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen(God ).
Yes, it is true that we cant see God with our physical eyes, he is a spirit.
But the Christian faith is the evidence you are looking for, that God exist.
How does Christianity now the evidence?
We all know that Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity.
Before he founded the Christianity he said something about the christianity he was about to establish in parable while he was yet on earth(at the time he spoke the parable there was no Christianity on earth )
Matthew 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven(what is now known as Christianity today ) is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
To interprete this parable,
the kingdom of God represent the Christian faith which Jesus came to found
the small mustard seed represent the small population of adherents of the faith as at the time the faith was founded at the day Pentecost( the faith was founded at resurrection of Jesus, followed by Pentecost in the book of act of the apostles ). the population was just 120 people. read Act 1:15 which represent the least of all other seeds( all other religions as at that time such as Judaism)
The man who sowed(founded ) the mustard seed represent Jesus himself
the field is this earth.
He said this parable more than 2000 years ago
But when Christianity grow since 2000 years ago , it became the greatest of all the religions such that there were adherents world wide from every tribes which represent the birds of the air lodging,not only the jews.
the population grow from just 120 people to Billions of adherents world wide, such that you can't even count.
Now, Google it, which religion has the most number of adherents? you will find out it is Christianity.
The question now is, what human being could use a parable to prophesy a thing about a religion 2000 years ago such that we of this generation and generations forever to come can see it exactly the way it was written 2000 years ago that he said it?
No doubt, there is a power behind this thing that can never be denied, a mere human being cannot have a power to declare such prophesy in display and what has happened is the evidence that there is a power.
And if Christianity has grown world wide like this according to the parable, no doubt, that same power is responsible for all the miracles recorded in the Bible

cupidhero:
God is not that merciful. He might let a buddhist in but i don't think he will let a christian who never goes to church in.

pagans are not christians who don't go to church, i don't know where they get that definition from.
pagans were people who practice ancient religions that had many
gods and praised nature.
Today, pagans are people who practice religions that are not among the main known religions of the world such as Christianity, Judaism, Hindu, bhudaism, Islam etc
so, nobody in Christianity is a pagan, if you like stop going to church, so long you still believe in Jesus you remain a Christian

infact, I never bothered to read such Messages, having seen the correlation between NIV and king james

First of all, what is sin?
sin. is defined in the Bible as breaking any law of the 10 commandments
example, thou shall not kill. if you kill it's a sin
thou shall not commit adultery, if you do such, its a sin.
i didn't see anything like thou shall not self service or masturbate.
so, what the Bible didn't call a sin we should not call it a sin.

ogunvic41:
THIS IS INTERESTING, here are my points
1.The word (BIBLE) isn't in the bible PLS check KJV
2.The word (RAPTURE) isn't in the bible PLS check KJV
3.Is Smoking cigarettes or Indian hemp a sin? If yes where is it written in the bible?
4.Is cheating and impersonation in the Examination hall a sin? If yes where is it written in the bible?
5.Is watching pornography a sin? If yes where is it written in the bible?
6.Is forging of certificates or signatures a sin? If yes where is it written in the bible?

illogical conclusions

when you here christians speaking reggogoskododosh!
brugggadaaskulodedos!.
yesuskudededeeshas!
You begin to wonder like fela kuti at kalakuta republic.
what the hell are they talking?
actually, if you analyze this thing from the Scripture it make no sense at all.
Paul describe it as sounding brass or symbal, no sense
1 Corinthians 13:1 says Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
If you read that chapter, Paul talk about prophecy.
a prophecy always come after tongues. In those says when prophets speak in tongues It's a sign that they want to prophesy
so, when they hear a message from God to pass to the people, the message most times, come as a shock depending on the weight of the message
As a result of the shock, they will ulter a sound like grugugugushdiduzzz! the people will then ask, what did you hear?
if the prophet love the people he pass the message to them.
Today, that tongues has evolved to what we used to do swag in Christianity by speaking randomly, gugugrigugugizzu
dezulugridididush
when we do these things we don't interprete what we are saying.
where is the love there?
All Pentecostal churches are guilty of this

Firefire:
Maranatha!

This dispensation that we are, is not the sign of end time but the time has already
ended.
Rumors of war, earthquake, famine etc existed from the beginning, that is what is still happening till now.
Perhaps, all these things were in the increase the era Jesus came to die for the sins of mankind 2000years ago. so, 2000 years ago was end time, prophet joel prophesy pentecost day which is 2000 years ago as end time,not now.
what we see now is not any sign of end time, they are all natural occurrence

pring:
Pastors will hate u for this, trying to kill thier businesses. If u ever tell a pastor u ate in ure dream ehh, office has just started for ure head.

ahaaahaa ahaa

ojimbo:
no problem my dear and when other religion dies. he go straight to your own hell fire right?

lol,
i saw it in Bible.
i simply wish everybody should live again.
And my interaction to people remains possitive irrespective of their choice of religion. I even attend mosque to encourage some Muslim friends to remain in their faith, and remain a Christian by believing only

Proximo73:
To faith is a practical thing.
You must work to show the you love God.
Your faith alone is not enough to save you

The only practical thing to do in order to have faith is to lift up your eyes (this means to believe ).
Just like Moses lifted up the servant in the wilderness such that it only took the Jews to lift up their eyes for them to be saved, so was the son of man lifted at the cross, such that it will only take our believe to be saved.
i can tell you that it takes practically no work to believe but to believe, just like it take no work to lift up your eyes.
Therefore, we are saved by grace, which is our faith Christianity and not by works

ojimbo:
go and ask a 90 years old man or women if he or she is not already tired of this world not to talk of eternity. i dont think you know what eternity is all about

God does not deal with how people feels or their emotions.
His promises are sure.
If he tells you he has given you eternal life, he has given you.
He is the one to detect how you will go about living that eternal life. Infact, when a christian dies he is not conscious of himself again. Whatever happens from there is God

Image123:
Yes, we are saved from eternal death because of our faith in Jesus. Faith in Jesus is a practical thing, it is not a passive idea of being born into a christian house or family. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. That substance and evidence has to be in God through Jesus Christ. Our faith or trust should be in Jesus, not in being born in a christian family or religion. Of course, genuine faith in Christ produces works of repentance, for faith without works is dead faith. Faith in Jesus is not dead faith. Anyone who has faith in Jesus will show fruits of repentance.

That's true!
genuine faith produce works of repentance, but that is only possible by learning.
The truth is, most people want to repent of their sins, but they do not know how to go about it, they make a lot of mistakes out of ignorance.
That's why we need to be merciful, just like Jesus was merciful to us.
when you replace the word faith with Christianity in that definition what you will see is, Christianity is the substance of things hoped for (substance means tangible proof of God existence ),the evidence of things not seen (because we can't see God ).
so, right now, Christianity is the tangible evidence that God exist.
Infact, Christianity is the kingdom of God on earth (if you understand Jesus parables ).
An athiest asked me, if you say God exist, where is God? I told him if you see Christians you have seen God.
Now, nobody in Christianity or in church do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah,forget their sin. , except he is a Muslim pretending by going to church.
Therefore. everybody who go to church are saved, irrespective of their orientation, background or disposition.

Iceflox:
But some people are saying we are saved by our good behavior and actions?
Your believe in Christ and some good works is required

they do not have any Scripture to support this claim.
the same people will tell you that salvation is a free gift from God at the same time they will say that if a christian die commiting sin he will go to hell fire.
is that not contradictive?
The point remains that, salvation is through grace, nobody work for it

flexybobo:
ok,
that means, we will come through child birth?

exactly,
that's why i say if you were born into a christian home you are saved automatically.
remember, Eve was deceived to sin and death came to the world, But Jesus came, died and resurrected and restore back that eternal life that was lost
1 Tim2:14 says And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Tim 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
so, we are all saved in child birth
Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ(Die as a christian, not as a Muslim or as anybody in other religion ), we believe that we shall also live with him(come back to life and live as christians, not as Muslims )
Because, there is no way we be born into an Islamic home and end up to be Christians.
we must be groomed by christian parents from childhood

flexybobo:
15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
it seems to be like some kind of a parable,
i still do not understand it

when we die, we are buried just life a grain of corn or wheat is buried on the ground when they are sown.
And just like the grain germinates to a tree which has a body different from the grain previously sown, we will come back to life with a different body, such that when people see us, nobody will be able to know that we were the person that was buried .

starlingslimnet:
Fallacy!! Salvation has nothing to do with Religion or Christainity but have everything to do with Christ.You don't give your life to a religion you give it to Christ...you don't give your life to Christainity you give it to Christ. Giving your life to Christ is believing in Christ as your Saviour and then presenting your life a Living Sacrifice.


I will come back to explain this to you guys

sorry, nor vex, Jesus is the founder of Christianity, therefore Jesus is Christianity.
Christians are the Christianity, Jesus lives in christians and their body is his temple and his dwelling place.
There is no way you can separate Jesus from Christians or Christianity

Iceflox:
it is also offensive hearing Muslims saying blasphemy things against Jesus, sometimes i feel like crushing them

that is their opinion,
like i said, opinion or what you say does not matter, it is what you do that matter.
For someone to enforce the arrest of Jesus, it means he was not a disciple, he did not believe.
But when Peter cut off his ear, what did Jesus do? He healed the man.
That implies that Christianity did not come to fight any other religion. So, if you are fighting you are on your own.
You are not fighting for Christ

flexybobo:
How are we saved? i was asking this question the other day, what is resurrection,how are we resurrecting ?
But you did not answer me

really?
sorry i didn't take note of it.
i think this same question was asked in the Bible
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
if you read that chapter down to the end you will see how Paul explained it.

Image123:
Saved from what or who?

we are saved from death.
imagine life without death,
It is called everlasting life.
John 3:16, For God so love the world,whosever believe should have everlasting life.
it's a beautiful thing.
Some people say they will soon get tired of life.Because of this, God has designed eternal life in such a way that we live aboundantly (continous life after death ) without we ourselves being conscious of what has been happening

Iceflox:
@op, now that we know that we are saved we should not be religious people anymore.
religion is the cause of all the trouble in the world. religion is a mess

imagin Jesus calling the Abraham the founder of Judaism a thief, why will the Jews not kill him?
Go to a mosque and call muhammed a thief let's see what will happen.
lol

When you hear people saying give your life to christ what are they trying to talk about?
to give your life to Christ and to repent from sin are two different things, christians mixed up these things and caused confusion for themselves.
while repentance from sin means to change from your bad ways which will never bring salvation, because even Muslims can repent too, To give your life to christ simply means to join christianity if you were a muslim or any other religion outside christianity.
salvation is Christianity or the Christian religion itself and not any other religion. Jesus is the founder of Christianity just like Muhammad founded islam and Abraham founded Judaism( the old covenant ) which God has rejected.
Therefore, Jesus is the only way to God, that means, Christianity is the only way to God, it is the only approved religion where men ought to worship in spirit and in truth. that means, all other religions that came long before Christianity came to earth including Judaism, were all thieves.
John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He(the high priest of every other religion, example, Abraham. Jesus is the high priest of Christianity ) that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold(through Christianity ), but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
And also
Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
This is simply saying,if any religion(example, muhammed ) that comes after Christianity has been established on earth, that disciples in Christianity should not believe in such religion but remain in their christian faith.
note: Christianity is our faith, without Christianity our faith it is impossible to please God. You must believe in Jesus, not in muhammed or Abraham or anything else.
Therefore, if you were born into a christian home you are saved.
Now that we are saved, our priority as christians is not to be going to church, our priority is to think of something good to better this world through love.
Love everybody alike, be it christians or Muslims or whatever.
our opinion is Christianity is the way because we were born into Christianity. Muslims says Islam is the way, because they were born into Islam, so is all the religions.
But opinion does not matter.
What you say does not matter ,what matter is what you do.
And what you should do is to love everybody alike irrespective of the religion.
currently, my brothers fiance is a Muslim and he love her so much, he intend to marry her but family problem arises.
To me, i will marry the Muslim i don't care, that's what i told him.

Deeper life has change now. they can now marry from any denomination or even Muslims

Hildalicious:
But why did Jesus says my kingdom is not of this world? And you are saying that this world is now God's kingdom

my kingdom is not of this world is the same thing as saying Christianity did not come to fight earthly governments or anybody.
pilate was the ruler of the Jewish province at the time, so Jesus establishing Christianity on earth has nothing to do with earthly authorities.
so long Christianity remains on earth, the world is now Gods kingdom.
we are now heaven on earth

Hildalicious:
you funny o,
which would has ended?

what Jesus meant by the end of the world is not what the disciples thought it was.
The disciples thought that the end of world means that this world will end.
But Jesus never says that this world will end.
Rather Jesus says God's kingdom has no end.
this world has become God's kingdom the very day Christ resurrected.
what Jesus meant by the end of the world is the end of sin and death.
sin brought death, remember Adam and Eve.
Hence, the wages of sin is death.
But Jesus came to restore life.
until Christ came and died the world was sinful, death reigns.
In the context of that Scripture, sin and death means the world.

Hildalicious:
you funny o,
which would has ended?

what Jesus meant by the end of the world is not what the disciples thought it was.
The disciples thought that the end of world means that this world will end.
But Jesus never says that this world will end.
Rather Jesus says God's kingdom has no end.
this world has become God's kingdom the very day Christ resurrected.
what Jesus meant by the end of the world is the end of sin and death.
sin brought death, remember Adam and Eve.
But Jesus came to restore life
until Christ came and died the world was sinful, death reigns.
In the context of that Scripture, sin and death means the world.

dajoaneke:
Haa! Y not. Please join me, eating alone can be boring u know? Bit pls dont touch d groundnut or else my trumpet shout be the last thing your ear go hear

ahahaaa!
your trumpet na mosquito noise?
i hate mosquito noise pass mosquito bite.
nor worry, i wount touch your groundnut, it's only the popcorn i want

Hildalicious:
this is not rapture,
But certainly, Matthew 24:31 is talking about rapture. Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The trumpet shall sound, rapture will surely come

certainly, Matthew 24:31 is not talking about rapture.
infact, the whole Matthew 24 was a direct quotation of a written prophecy quoted by Jesus to his disciples on that day when the world ended.
Do you know that the world has already ended?
it ended since 2000 years ago.
another figurative language.
lol

dajoaneke:
For 2000 yrs an angel has been assigned to blow the trumpet on the last day. What if he decides to test if its still working, does that mean everyone will collapse, die and only christians will ressurect?
*eats popcorn, eyes wide open awaiting reply*

lol,
you no go share your pop corn?
if the guy by mistake test the trumpet whether e dey work na inside hell fire una go go roast una pop corn o

lol that what will happen when rapture comes?

In bible days, men were CALLED to battle by the sound of trumpets(Battle call ),that it was time to fight battle.
1 Corinthians 14:8 says For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
so there was a particular sound of the trumpets that make people prepare for battle.
Note:There is time for everything. If it is not time for battle the trumpet will not be sounded.
Nebuchadnezar uses trumpet to gather or CALL people to worship a idol, that it was time to worship.
The Israelites went round Jericho seven times and blow their trumpets CALLING for the end of jericho,that it was time to end Jericho.
Therefore, the sound of the trumpet signifies a CALL at a particular time .
The point is that, when you die today, your death is a CALL.
a call by God, that your time has ended, it is a time to face judgement .
Figuratively, the bible uses the sound of the trumpet to represent the death of men.
For instance,1 Corinthians 15:52 says In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye(closing the eye at death and open it back to life after judgment, this one is for christians only ), at the last trump(at the last calling ): for the trumpet shall sound(for we will surely die ), and the dead shall be raised incorruptible(we will resurrect immediately after we die, after judgment ), and we shall be changed(our body will be changed,see previous verses ).
So when you hear people saying the trumpet shall sound, it implies that we will die someday by a way of God CALLING us using trumpet(figuratively ) , that our time to die has come.
This happen to everybody. Christians and non christians alike.
Surely, the trumpet shall sound, but that means we all we die someday.
But only christians will resurrect back to life to continue their eternal life immediately after judgment, as suggested by this 1 cor 15:52 figuratively.