₦airaland Forum

vdestro:
Does the theory not say man evolved from ape (monkey), again?

The theory says man have a common ancestor with these creatures, not that man evolved from them

Does it not mean that the monkey was made before man?

that's what it suggest!
And, according the theory, homosapien being the most recently evolved primate, originated from natural selection having the most ability to adapt to varieties of climatic conditions compared to other species

The ones that are figurative are very clear eg, "as the door turneth upon his hinges, so doth the slothful man upon his bed". But Genesis 1, is very clear, stating how God created the raw materials, (earth) from which He took to make the mannequin called man and how He(God) gave man life, From His Life, through breath and man became a living mannequin.

i understand what you are saying!

You know, there are other ways one can speak figuratively without using allegories but plain words?
For instance, if i say "Obi go to school" you will think i actually meant obi go to school, but in the real sense i meant Obi is learning or he is a learner.

This is what may have applied

vdestro:
The bible did not say man was a monkey.

neither did the theory said man was a monkey

It Said and The Lord God made man,

how long did it take God to made man?

which was even made earlier,

No!
check your bible again, man was the last creation God made.
He had created every other creation before saying let's create man in our own image and likeness

so, it does not connect with the bible.

the problem is, Christians fail to reason along.
A lot of scriptures in the bible are presented figuratively, examples are parables and some prophecies that needs literal interpretations. So it is very possible that Genesis chapter 1 is just one of those scriptures.
But the literal meaning of these kind of scriptures is what is most important to acquire.

For instance,

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

this scripture might just be written this way for a lay man to understand. But in reality, the explanation might go beyond this simple explanation as one may ask, how long does it take for God to form man?
Remember, another scripture says a thousand years is like one day to God?..

So, how long did God really take to form man?

Workch:
I was a Christian for 27 years, after my undergraduate course in Nigeria, I happened to travel to Poland for my masters degree, I became irreligious while in Poland. I travelled to many parts of Europe: Germany, Netherlands, Spain etc with my student schengen Visa, in the course of travelling, I interacted with many European and debated religion with them. I have not been to the untied states but I have had many conversations with Christians from the United States of America about how they perceive the theory of evolution and these are my observations:

1. European Christians are less conservative than Christian from America and Africa. Albeit, education in America seem to have made those there to be more exposed than their African counterparts but still they are still very conservative.

2. Christians in Europe don't take literal interpretations from the Bible, they see most of the passages to be allegories which are meant to pass spiritual and moral meanings . They don't take the Adam and eve story to be literal hence they do not have issues reconciling their beliefs with the theory of evolution. Christians in America and Africa are mostly literalists, their interpretation of the Bible is literal, this is why they find it difficult to reconcile the Bible with theory of evolution.
Because to them, it means that their literal understanding of Genesis will be wrong.

3. American and African Christians are still overzealous about their religion. Probably because the religion is quite newer in these continent. Christianity has a long history in Europe, so Europeans really don't see a big deal about it anymore. It's also why they accept the Bible as allegoricsl interpretations instead of thr literal meaning.

nice one!

It's something to learn here.
And so long the theory can be reconciled with scriptures, it doesn't really matter whether it is done literally or in fiction

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ there's no way you can put Muslims out with what i wrote above that you won't disqualify most of the people you're calling Christians too because that's all what they knew about faith in Jesus!

ok 😀😀

MaxInDHouse:
Is Jesus' name found written in their holy book?
Did they use to talk about Jesus as a real person?
Did they believe he was born in Israel by a Jewish virgin girl called Mary?
Did they believe that God empowered him to perform miracles?

If YES is the answer to all these questions then the proof is there already that they believe in Jesus of Nazareth.

you are wrong!

I'm not sure that it has yet occurred to you why people believe in Christ.
All these things you mentioned do not fall into the category as to why one should believe in Christ.

When the purpose of a thing is not know abuse is inevitable

MaxInDHouse:
Hmmmmmmm try to listen with your mind not just your ears and see with your heart not just your eyes.

There are tens of thousands sects all claiming they're believers in Jesus Muslims are just one out of numerous having their own doctrines just like all others.
So instead of thinking about what they call the religion why not ask what they believe about Jesus of Nazareth since they also claim they believe in all the prophets including Jesus?

Did Muslims tell you that they believe in Jesus, what proof do you have?

MaxInDHouse:
Of course there is a prophesy by Jesus himself about Islam but it will also affect so many sects claiming they're believers in Jesus so it's better to let the sleeping dog lie!

sects believing in Christ and sects believing in Islam, how are dey related in the context of what the op is asking?

There is no prophecy or statement Islam was implied or mentioned in the bible

vdestro:
"Though we are in the world, we are not of the world!" Though we are with them, we are not with them

this is exactly what i tried to explain when i said the human mind cannot be predicted by what they do.
Joseph was with them, at the same time his mind was with Christ.

It was the same Joseph that provided the tomb where Jesus was burried?
That is to tell you that his mind was totally for Christ

AntiChristian:
Most Bible translators used the word "worshipped" and not "bowed" what the Maggians did for Jesus! They were like Zoroastrians who worshipped stars, Ahura Mazda, etc. So why was bowing/prostration translated as worship by so many if not all Bible translators particularly when Jesus is involved? But now you're reinterpreting your own bowing not to mean worship but honor?

you know, evolution of languages occurs over time.
The words worship and bow meant the same thing as they applies in those verses. But may be some translators decides to use the word worship more when it comes to bowing to Jesus because, they intended to maintain the Lordship of Jesus towards human worship which does not necessarily apply to those verses in reality, if you have a critical study of them.

Where verse in the Bible points to "hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with..... Holy Mary, mother of God pray for all sinners....

hail Mary isn't the same as worship Mary.

All these mass processional statements or whatever are simply historical. It seems they were something of the ancient Roman empire people saying.
Hail the emperor!
Hail the emperor!
They later infused it into Christianity

It is certainly not from the bible

Which Bible verses support the believe that saints (eg. Saint Ignatius of Loyola, etc) are alive today?

John 3:16 ... that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

How can we verify them being alive?

there is nothing to verify. All we do is believe.
That's why we have faith

Is there any difference between an Ogun worshipper who bows for Iron, recite incantation, believes it can help him and the Catholics rituals?

no difference!

rituals, rituals, rituals, they are all rituals.
Rituals is characteristics of religion you know

vdestro:
O oh! I hate phone typing. I meant
Luke 23; 50/51

Here it is
50Now there was a man named Joseph, from the Jewish town of Arimathea. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man,
51[b]who had not consented to their decision and action[/b]

OK, I understand what you are saying, that Joseph of Arimathea a good man compared to other members of the council.

That not withstanding, he was still a member of the council right?

vdestro:
At least you have admitted that they indeed bowed, all other things you said are off point.



Correction: Catholic creation of monuments depicting some Christian notables (as separate from catholic notables eg their father Tansi, Augustine etc) which they idolized.



Now you even know you are lying for they have many prayers to saint this, st that eg prayers to mary, joseph, then prayer to mary and joseph, benedict, dominic etc

The way you are trying to defend this just clearly shows that you are catholic. Obviously, pastor chris don tire you.

I don't know what you gain in causing division in the body of Christ. But i know you have a long way to go, na you go tire last last.

Cathalic church as a sect in Christianity has been in existence long before you were born and nothing will change that.
The same with winners chapel, Rccg, Christ Embassy, Presbyterian, Anglican, celestial church, mountain of fire, etc.

You know what your problem is?
Oyinbo carry religion were you nor fit understand come Africa, you carry the religion put for head without understanding. See am now, e dey cause division among Africans

vdestro:
What has been going on here? Is it not the judging of the catholics bowing to images, with The Law?

you mentioned stealing, adultery and murder. How does this relate to Catholics bowing to images?
You can arrest someone for stealing, how many Catholics have they arrested for bowing down to images?

Therefore, your points do not follow

There is actually nothing for you to say.

all am saying is, if you have a better argument, present it well and i will be on your side, I'm not a catholic

Obviously you have not read the bible well enough. Luke 24:50/51.

For the purpose transparency

Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

What's this?
How does this relate?

vdestro:
So is stealing, adultery and murder, all in the same Commandment and they are still in force today.

you know, if one is caught stealing or committing murder or adultery you can easily judge the person according to the law. But when someone bows to a graven image there is no law you can use to judge that one but the law of faith.Hence, we are justified by our Faith in Christ, not by the law, new testament will confirm that one.

You can't judge Catholics until they tell you themselves that :
1. They don't believe in Christ
2. The images they bow before are idols and not monuments.

You will only let God who is a spirit to judge them.

The bible described him as a rightous man which means that he was not doing every thing which the pharisees did and all his acts are within public knowledge, to earn him being called a rightous man, so, you still have no point.

which bible describe Joseph as a righteous man, where?

Contrary to that

1 John 1: 8 says all have sinned, no righteous man

AntiChristian:
In the beginning of Matthew when the Maggi aka wise men purportedly "worshipped" Jesus, how did they worship?

ofcourse they bowed before Jesus. Again, there is no record in the bible that their bowing to baby Jesus is a translation of what they truly worshipped, neither was there any record that these people ended up becoming disciple of Jesus.
Remember, they were more or less like astrologers who study stars, perhaps stars could be their religion.

Don't you do same to your idols of Mary

I ain't no catholic, I'm just being object here talking like someone who have gone to verify the truth. Those things aren't Idols, they are monuments of Christian martyrs of which Mary was one of them.

, Jesus

has nothing to do with you

and saints you pray to?

they don't pray to any saint. Rather, they believe that these saints are still alive today praying

I have heard it so many times in mass "Saint Ignatius of Loyola"........other chorused "pray for us" and so many other saints!

catholic mass are usually symbolic. Going by the fact that Jesus resurrected, Catholics believe that these saints have also resurrected and they are alive today praying for the world. That's why they keep saying pray for us

Even the hail Mary you recite, you keep telling a dead woman to pray for you!

well, that's your own belief.
But we Christians believe that the saints are still alive

vdestro:
Breautiful argument but still flawed. Why?

Because, we all understand what God had in mind when He Said "do not make any image..."

that is, in the old testament right?

I can categorically tell you that in the old testament people were still primitive, so bowing down to graven images as at time implies worship.
But today, that isn't the case anymore, because humans are becoming more knowledgeable such that you can't always judge people's minds by mere what they do.

Today, if you see someone bowing before one orunmila or sango or obatala, it does not necessarily mean that he has faith or believes in the deity. Except, when you ask the person he tells you that is what he truly worships, that is the only way you can conclude that he is truly worshipping the deity. Otherwise any conclusion you make without asking is only assumption and non effective.

Me, I have had reasons to enter a mosque and bow among Muslims and non of them didn't know that i wasn't a Muslim.
Does my bowing my head to the ground in a mosque make me a Muslim?
Absolutely no

Because it is only the spirit that judges the mind.
And God who is a spirit have the absolute power to determine what is in the mind of humans, not another person who knows nothing in the mind of another person.

Joseph of Arimarhea in the bible was among the Pharisees doing everything the Pharisees does, but he was secret disciple of Jesus Christ, how do you explain that?

DaddyCoool:
Then what do you call this below? The bible clearly says thou shall not bow to images

i ain't no catholic, but atleast i have interacted with some professional cathecists back then while i was in school and i asked them the same questions you are asking.

Here is the thing.
Bowing before figures and images among Catholics does not necessarily mean worship but it is a traditional thing of the ancient Roman empire.
In a bid to show respect to figures or biblical characters they consider heronic, they traditionally bow before their images and monuments, just like the Yoruba tradition demands that the younger ones bows before their elders. In such case, the younger ones are not said to worship their elders but rather, they are showing signs of respect.

But spiritually,, in the real sense, what is worship in Christianity?
How do we distinguish between mere bowing down before someone, figures or images from worship?

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Mark the phrase THE HOUR COMETH.
It refers to the hour when Christ will die and resurrect. From that point the true worshippers begin to exist in contrast to those who worship during the old covenant. These true worshippers are believers.

So if Catholics have believed in Christ and they profess that Jesus is the Christ, then it is unfair to use their mere traditional practices of bowing and honoring monuments of faithful martyrs to judge them, seeing that tradition is already part of the people and there is nothing you can do to separate certain traditional practices from the people.

But what is fascinating is, most Catholics cannot explain what they do if you ask them. Because they are usually groomed to obey without asking questions

Freshtruth:
Op u dey mental

OK, you want Mbappe for Chelsea?

Arsenal are weighing up a sensational move for Paris Saint-Germain striker Kylian Mbappe.

The Frenchman's current deal with the Ligue 1 outfit expires next season and he has reportedly indicated that he will not be signing an extension.

That means PSG could be forced into offloading their prized asset this summer to avoid losing him for free.

According to Football Transfers, the Gunners are pondering whether to send Mbappe's representatives an offer, with a view to acquiring him in 2024.

The 24-year-old has been heavily linked with a switch to Real Madrid and that move could happen in this window if PSG lower their asking price.

But if Los Blancos cannot agree a deal, Mikel Arteta's side could swoop in and pull off one of the biggest transfers in Premier League history.

Mbappe joined PSG from Monaco in 2017 and has bagged 212 goals in 260 games across all competitions, finishing as Ligue 1's top scorer in each of the last five seasons.

Football Transfers also report that the North Londoners will reignite their interest in Real midfielder Aurelien Tchouameni if they fail to sign either Brighton's Moises Caicedo or Southampton ace Romeo Lavia.


https://www.livescore.com/en/native/news/transfer-talk-arsenal-kylian-mbappe-paris-saint-germain-2023070108425635336/?isAdult=true&ads=true&isSelfExcluded=false

tobechi20:
Any advantage

what if your boss in office do not believe, and he is a good man, any benefit or advantage of not being around him?

MaxInDHouse:
It's a big fat lie!
The name TITHES connotes 10% so it's never a thing of option according to the law that's why the God of Israel laid a heavy curse on whoever fails to pay! Malachi 3:6-10

But when Jesus commissioned Christianity the tithe was excluded because there are no group that must not work unlike the old covenant where Levites must remain in the temple. So the monetary tithing today is a scam if you must know!

so, why are they now transferring the Malachi curse from old testament to the new covenant in Christ, i don't get it?

Does the curse really work?
Because i can count so many successful Christians who are not regular churchgoers, talkless of them paying tithe

Image123:
Tithes and offerings help to run the church smoothly. It helps the church to run with minimal distractions. Clearer?

very true!
I wish the tithe collection should just be free-will giving like offering, not that one pastor will cajole church members that it must be some sort of regular 10% of one's income and that if the church member don't pay the regular 10% things will tight for him or her.

You know, that's amount to threat

Image123:
Normally, tithes and offerings help to run the church smoothly. It helps the church to run with minimal distractions like was seen in the OT.

how about the NT. church, how does tithe relate?

soil4soil:
Hience, the fact remains that, it's not that they don't believe in Nigeria like you claim, it's just that they don't believe in your kind of primitive mind-set that uphold tribalism and they wonder, are they living in the same country with people of your kind of mumu mind-set?



You and your people that have been calling a whole country like Nigeria a ZOO don't have mumu mind-set.
But believe with your primitive mind-set when your tribal leader was calling it the damage name.




How can you say that those who are not satisfied with the conduct of the general election don't believe in Nigeria? Isn't that not a fallacy?



Fallacy is when you believe the country that God almighty place you is not a good country but a ZOO according to your blind tribal leader.




You will notice that it is not everyone in that your tribe that thinks like that. There are good people speaking the same language with you and you are not learning from them.
Only primitive people say fallious statements like they should move to Sierra leaone, no proper education.


When you were learning from a mischievous tribal leader despite your education what a pity and waste of money on education
I repeat myself move to Sierra Leone and continue your education there.


Third world tribalist ;

This should be your tribal leader

wetin this one dey talk sef?

My guy, stay out of drugs and don't quote me again o!

Nonsense!

K

soil4soil:
You and your people who don't believe in Nigeria should please move to Sierra Leone

even if it's true that they don't believe in Nigeria is that the best advice you can give them that they should move?

Do you really know what it takes to move or is it that you just want to sound stupid?

Hence, the fact remains that, it's not that they don't believe in Nigeria like you claim, it's just that they don't believe in your kind of primitive mind-set that uphold tribalism and they wonder, are they living in the same country with people of your kind of mumu mind-set?

How can you say that those who are not satisfied with the conduct of the general election don't believe in Nigeria? Isn't that not a fallacy?

You will notice that it is not everyone in that your tribe that thinks like that. There are good people speaking the same language with you and you are not learning from them.
Only primitive people say fallious statements like they should move to Sierra leaone, no proper education.

Third world tribalist

An Executive Director of Yiaga Africa, Samson Itodo has alleged that the Sierra Leone election is a direct contrast to the Nigeria 2023 election in terms of credibility. He stated that a lot of Nigerians will be disappointed seeing how the Sierra Leonean government had conducted the election in a free and fair manner. According to him, the people were allowed to go and do their business on the day of the election. He also noted that the turnout for the election is about 83%. 

He said, ”On the day of the election in Sierra Leone. There was no restriction of movement. People were able to move around and go about their daily business. Despite the contest on which the election was conducted. 

It was conducted under a tense political environment but just an hour ago, the result was announced and the incumbent has emerged as the winner after securing 56% of the total votes cast. A lot of Nigerians might be sad after seeing the way Sierra Leone conducted their election. It’s a decent reflection of democracy as against the experience in the 2023 election.”


https://naijatweet.ng/a-lot-of-nigerians-might-be-sad-after-seeing-the-way-sierra-leone-conducted-their-election-samson-itodo

Yes, Barka De Sallah !

Adakintroy:
The garment of white in revelationsrepresent purity or our holy forms. As for the bare foot, its a form of libration and one being at ease with everything. You were not born with shoes. The one place you take of your shoes off is ur house were you are at come ease.. is why Moses was told to do it when he met God more or less told him to chill out. You now in my presence. Be at one with everything

OK,

This is a reasonable explanation of the significance

Lies!

There is reincarnation in the bible. Though the word reincarnation wasn't used in the bible, but it is actually resurrection of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

So, the dead are always coming back with a different body, their body is always changed.

No!

what i will do when there is no job.
God has called me