₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
The proof of it is seen in that the disciples reported the happenings of these things, even in their days and generation

eg Acts 15 happened (False Prophets), the disciples were Murdered eg Stephen, Paul etc (love waxed cold), Paul took the Gospel to outside Isreal (the Gospel of The Kingdom shall be preached in all the world)

Plus, what they call the rapture, has been happening since, but people do not see it, BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO MANY ON ONE SIDE OF THE DIVIDE and the other side too few, Exactly as Written!

you mean the rapture has been happening since?
I'm not doubting you, you may be right!

But how come people are still waiting for rapture today, is that not scamming?

Image123:
This is primary school stuff, how is someone still asking this in August 2021? Jesus was referring to the generation that would experience the things He talked about in the passage, the sun turning, the abomination of desolation etc.

Please don't present Jesus as a confused person here, if Jesus was referring to the generation he wouldn't have used the word "THIS" which implies he is pointing to something. Rather he would have used the word "THE"
He would have said The generation that will experience this...

Abi you nor study English?

Dtruthspeaker:
Is it possible for the blind to tell the colour of the sky?

So also can they never see that what they call rapture has long since begun

then you have to scripturally debunk what the op has observed. Was Jesus lying when he told his disciples that this generation will not pass, or do you have a better explanation for that?

Kandeed:
I laugh at ur folly ...it wee shock you

you don't have anything to say

OLORIPAPA:
Hmmm

e weak you abi?

Yes

A lot of Christians also quote this scripture in defense of rapture.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But they ignore what Jesus said in verse 34

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

He was referring to the generation at the time he was not yet crucified which is about 2000 years ago

2000 years have pass now, what is rapture still waiting for?

Does it mean Jesus lied when he told his disciples it will happen before their generation pass away i don't get it ?

Ofunaofu:
The Rapture: which figure of speech is that?

Just asking for a friend

no wahala!

But I will ask, are you a Christian, have you been reading bible on your own?

The reason why I'm asking : if you are a Muslim or atheist you will never understand what i will give you, so there is no point

Primitive Africa with their fairy tale of spirit toad and superstitious beliefs that only exist in their minds, wetin person no go see for this jungle?

The last accusation what was the outcome, was the apostle vindicated?

Crunchyg2:
Reading through all you wrote has shown me a clearly the level of your understanding of the scripture . So it's of no need continuing this discussion. It was nice while it lasted but I pray you know the truth one day. For you shall know the truth and the truth sha set you free. Have a nice day

bye

Crunchyg2:
. The bible said the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life.

how does that truth apply to what you are saying, there is no correlation. Please learn how to say things intelligently

Stop reading the Bible like a literature.

this is the biggest problem of today Christians, you just deliberately want to be blind and confuse of scriptures
What is written in a book you don't want to get the literal meaning of certain figure of speeches and parables written in the book how will you then understand the book?
If Jesus could give his disciples the literal meaning of some his parables for them to understand like this:

Matthew 13:38 The field represent the world; the good seed represent the children of the kingdom; but the tares represent children of the wicked one;

then who are you not to go literally for you to get understanding but always want to be spiritual?

Continue to be spiritual and dey there now

You need the spirit of God to explain somethings to you

the spirit of God will not explain anything to you don't be deceived! otherwise a lot of Christians will pass exams through the spirit of God which has never been the case.
It is you that will read and have the cognitive understanding of what was written. where you cannot understand then someone like a pastor who have the understanding can guide you through, but unfortunately we don't have any one such pastor in Nigeria.
Do you think it's easy to just read bible and understand it?
Na oyibo bring bible come Africa o

because it's obvious you pick alot of passages out of context .

like what?
Mention one.

For instance, I ended up saying the kingdom of heaven is in your heart that's why the phrase "To meet the Lord in the clouds or in the air" was possibly written in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.
Meaning, it is very possible that in those days that scripture was written people used to see the clouds as heaven.

Brother, I tell one truth, the way people perceived things 2000 years ago has changed today.
Today, people are so educated
They are full of knowledge, wisdom and understanding compared to how it was 2000 years ago.

So, you pick a book called bible that was last documented 2000 years ago, what do you expect to see, that the earth is spherical in shape?

Crunchyg2:
So what happens to people who are alive?

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I told you this scripture is repetition of 1 Corinthians 15;52 only that Paul put it in another way, but it's still the same thing.

Then we that are alive shall be caught together with those that died and were resurrected. Meaning, we that alive shall see them that have died and resurrected and interact with them
This is how it applies

Every Christian or believer you see today must have died and resurrected multiple times previously,and they will still die and resurect again. it started 2000 years ago the moment Christ resurrected.
He resurrected and gave us the power to do the same, so you must have died multiple times and resurrected you are not aware of what is happening.

Paul made this statement :

1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our LORD, I die daily

If someone can die daily then obviously it is possible to die after 100 years or more.
So, there is multiple or abundant death for the believer and there is multiple life or abundant life for him to resurrect into. This process last forever and ever, no end.

John 10:10 ...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Now, each time you die, the trumpet is sounded that it is time for you to die (1Thessalonians4:17). Then you resurrect immediately,your body is changed and you are given a new body to live on. How does this happen?
This parable explain it all.

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

In Agriculture, when you plant a seed, the seed is like a growing embryo. The same thing, a baby in the womb is a growing embryo, that embryo came from the spirit, he must have lived and died before coming to the womb, this time with a different body.

Also, see

1 Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she(referring to Eve) shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Also, remember in Revelation, the beast hunting to kill the seed of a woman in Revelation 12:1-2, that was a significance of child bearing in Christianity.
Many of us are Christians today and have faith in Christ because we were born into a Christian home right?

The essence of this is to restore that life Adam and Eve lost from the beginning to mankind and through our faith in the death and resurrection of Christ.

Now, If we are raptured away what positive impact will that make to this world ?
But when we keep living by way of our body changing from time to time, then we have the opportunity to keep living and replenish this earth which is original instructions given to Adam and Eve right from creation.
Therefore, the kingdom of God is on this earth, it is in our heart.

Takeoff8832:
lol y'all Know nothing about Sharia law but the irony in which some people open their shitty mouth in the name of opinion to disrespect people'S religion is pure HYPOCRISY..

ok

Crunchyg2:
I can see that you don't get it.

For your info: The rapture doctrine was erroneously postulated by ancient people who never saw quality education in their time and could not possibly grasp or understand those scriptures they use as reference. If these same people also postulated and thought people that the earth was flat and not spherical, i think you being educated today can correct that notion for yourself, same is rapture

Maybe this might be my last reply. If rapture wasn't mentioned there doesn't mean that there is no rapture. I think the problem most of you have is that you are looking for where rapture was written in plain text. Not knowing that being snatched away in a twinkling of an eye to meet Christ in the air is the same thing and meaning as rapture

thank God you have agreed that rapture wasn't mentioned anywhere in the bible.
But important doctrine like resurrection is written in plain texts several times.

Here is the meaning of what you are quoting :
Twinkling of eye simply means death, that we close our eyes and die someday, but we will resurrect immediately and open our eyes like blinking the eye.
When you blink your eye you close and open them immediately, that is death experience for the believer.
But for other people they think he has died.

Then to meet Christ in the air means to be in heaven after resurrection, how does this apply.

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Take note : past tense are used in these phrase

The translation was already done when Christ was crucified and resurrected, we are not expecting it in the future, it is now and after we die

We can't come here and sabotage what Christ has done for us by our ignorance

Takeoff8832:
Individual right? The individual right is what is destabilizing the world now as per as Islam is concerned Obeying God is what come first unless if you are a non-believer faking life in Islam

so why don't Muslims allow God himself to punish those who disobey him and destabilize the world by their immodest dressing, why will Muslims take it upon themselves to execute the punishment for God?

after all Why be in something when you cant abide by it rules.

does the lady in the picture looks like someone who want to continue to be, regardless that she was born into it?
I mean, she didn't do anything wrong for her to be born a Muslim so why is her right to life stripped off her?

If the majority of the country want Shariah law let them have it that is their individual right too. The minority can have their own ways of life Just like what happened in Khartoum and South Sudan.

certainly,this is never the case for Shari'a law, that is the problem

Crunchyg2:
You are getting it all mixed up.

i used to think so the first time i saw it

I won't say much but just read 1 Thessalonians 4:12-17. You will see that what that place said contradicts what you just said about a believer dying and immediately resurrecting.

The full explanation of 1 Thessalonians 4:12-17 is 1 Corinthians 15:52. Basically, Paul was saying the same thing in both scriptures which is resurrection of the dead, not rapture.
If you really want to know this, please start reading 1 Corinthians 15 from verse 35 down to the end of the whole chapter, you will see how the dead is ressurected.
There is no way you will understand what verse 52 is trying to explain figuratively until you read the whole chapter and draw the conclusion which ends with :

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Meaning, death has been defeated through resurrection.
There is nothing rapture mentioned there.

So, to understand 1 Thessalonians 4:12-17, you will have to understand 1 Corinthians 15:52 first, otherwise you will keep thinking that the scripture is referring to rapture

Resurrection happens in the last day when Jesus will come to take his people. That is when they will be given the incorruptible and immortal body because that's the body they will be going up with to meet Jesus. Even the Christians who are alive then will receive this new body that you talked about, so they don't need to die first before they can get the incorruptible and immortal body.

can you please point out in the scripture where new body will be given to believers who are alive?
You can't see anything like that because they are all assumption.
Rather, new bodies were given to only believers were dead and resurrected.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It(referring to the believer) is sown(dead and buried) a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body(new body)..

Please read the whole chapter.

Just forget about what have been in your mind for years and follow the things I have been showing you join with the scriptures that is being explained. You can also read that john:11:24 and hear what Martha said. Like I told you earlier the death that was referred to in this John 11 is not physical death but eternal death (hellfire).

i agreed with you that it was talking about spiritual death.
But all I'm saying is it also involves natural death because Lazarus who was raised died a natural death.
Infact, the lesson behind the resurrection of Lazarus is to let us know that Christ also have power over both spiritual and natural death.

So How do you define last day?

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Was this scripture referring to last day like the day of rapture or end of times?
I don't think so

Takeoff8832:
YES.!!!!! As per as they're Muslim. If they ain't that's something different.

Muslims or no Muslims they are all humans and therefore should have their own individual rights to obey or not yes or no?

Don't you think certain laws like modest dressing should be optional and death penalty is too barbaric to adulterers?

How about amputation of the hands of pick pocketers and mild theft

Takeoff8832:
What's Happening in Afghanistan? More than 60% of the people want Shariah Law allow them to live their life. It's their life and Country why are the western Countries invading their Territories. The westerners will hit you with a right hand then offer you candy with the left. We should face our own problems not poking nose into the affairs of other country or tell them the law to live for. Stop the Hypocrisy.

do you agree that punishment like flogging should be meted on women who do not dress modestly or stoning adulterers to death?

Crunchyg2:
There is no time space between when a believer died and when rapture will take place. If a believer like let him die today and let another believer die 7 years ago, raptures will happen once and when it happen both the person that died 7 years ago and the person that died today will resurrect to meet Christ in the air. Anymore question, I am here

well, this is what i saw in John 11:26

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?

The scripture is saying a believer who is alive will never die.

Another scripture confirms the same thing Jesus said
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

IMMORTALITY SIMPLY MEANS A STATE OF NO DEATH

You know what it means to be corruptible in the context of that scripture?
It means the body will die and decay in the grave when the individual dies.

For this corruptible must put on in corruption implies when the believer dies, in the spirit realm he is given a new body to live on, that is RESURRECTION and it happens immediately.(within a short time of blinking of the eye. 1 cor 15:52)
So there is nothing like the believer is waiting for rapture before he resurrect.
There is no time frame between the time the believer dies and time of his resurrection.

That thing we see as dead body during the funeral of a believer is what is deceiving us
RESURRECTION IS NOW
RESURRECTION IS REAL

Also, judgement is now, immediately death.
It is appointed once for men to die and judgement happens immediately, no time to wait till one thing called rapture which is not real.

Infact death experience to a believer is just blinking the eye and he wakes up, that means there is no death at all.
We see that the believer dies over here but in the real sense he has been transcended back to life by the spirit immediately, no waiting.

That's why Jesus Affirmed that whoever believes in me SHALL NEVER DIE

So, before you start saying i quote scripture out of context just know that i already have these in mind

Crunchyg2:
you question brings us to another explanation that alot of persons has struggled with in the past. You must understand that there are two judgements 1. The judgement meant for people that didn't believe in Christ and 2. The judgement for people that believed in Christ . Let me break it down the first one are for unbelievers to be judged for not accepting Christ and after that they are cast out into hell and the believers doesn't go through this kind of judgement rather the judgement they will go through is the judgement of their works on earth which determines their crown in heaven. Immediately they gave their life to Christ they were exempted from the first judgement. Now back to your question, at the end of age (end time) when Christ will come back to take his people back to heaven, the believers that died physical death will be resurrected and the will rise to heaven while the believers that are still alive will join them to rise (rapture) to meet Jesus. Also note that after the dead believers has risen and rapture taken place that dead unbelievers will also be resurrected to face the first judgement I mentioned earlier with their fellow unbelievers who are still alive by then. If you still have some question you can ask. I am here

ok, you have answered the question about when judgement will take place, that it will take place after rapture

But the other question about the time frame, let me paraphrase the question this way :
Assuming a believer dies today and there is rapture tomorrow, that is within 24 hours the believer is raptured, and a believer who died 3 years ago is raptured after 3 years of his death that same day of rapture. Is there anywhere in the bible that suggest that there will be a time space between the death of the believer and the day of rapture?

The reason why I'm asking this question, you know i quoted John 11:26 and you said Jesus was talking about spiritual death(hell fire) in that verse, so i want to know whether physical death is separated from spiritual death(hell fire) by time?

Don't mind them, you are on the right path if you are self-sufficient

Yes

Crunchyg2:
Let me make you understand the bible well so you don't misinteprete it next time .

please do

You must check what I am about to tell you deeper because it's deeper than you thought and needs deeper understanding to grasp it. First: understand that when ever you see 'die' or death in the bible. Is either talking about two different things and that is where alot of persons are getting it twisted but pay attention I will explain them to you . When ever you see die or death in the bible, first try to understand the context it was used because it is always used to describe two different things. (1) death or die: describes one having to die physically i.e stops breathing and his spirit leaving him or her while in another context when death or die is mentioned it's taking about (hellfire) this is another time you will see bible talk about death or die. Example when bible talked about Adam and Eve when he told them that if they eat the fruit that they will ' die' he wasn't referring to physical death rather he was referring to going to hell. So make sure you try to find out the context in which the word is used before you conclude any time you see 'die' or 'death' so now going by the scripture you quoted john 11:26- whosoever liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE. This particular 'DIE' was referring to hellfire and not the other death of physical death that's why I said you must know the context of which the word death was used for you to properly understand the very passage that you are reading. Know that bible is not just any other literature that you read straight and understand you need more than understanding to really comprehend it well. The John 11:26 simply means that whosoever that believes in Jesus Christ will not go to hellfire not that the person will not die physical death. I will stop here but if anyone has further question the person can ask and I will answer . Thanks

Thanks for the response.
Basically, we are saying the same thing that Jesus was also referring to spiritual death in John 11:26, so i didn't quote scripture out of context.

And all you are trying to say is, when the rapture doctrine teaches that we will die and wait for rapture it was referring to our physical death, not the spiritual death called hell fire Jesus referred to in John 11:26?

The question I'm going to ask you has to do with the time duration :
How long will the dead wait for rapture before rapture will come and resurrect them,and when are they going to be judged. Are they going to be judged immediately after their death or they will wait for them to be raptured before they face judgement?

So, your life is probation?

Imagine that

Alright

Ok

I

ok

Assumption

good

livingchrist:
This is heresy,

it is always easy to say that.
But explain why you said so you can't.

Don't you think something is wrong somewhere?