₦airaland Forum

MakeADifference:
Mark 12:41-44 - The Widow's Offering

42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.
43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.
44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

Pentecostalism is a doctrine of greed and selfishness. It thrives on fear. It exploits the weak. It destroys critical thinking. Our salvation is in insisting on a rational society. Enough of these superstitions and greed.

Our Vice President is a professor of law and he is an ardent follower of a pastor who claims he has all these powers

The damage that Pentecostal pastors have caused with their exploitative sermons . .

Pastorpreneurs take money from the weakest and the most vulnerable members of the society such as widows, pensioners, the unemployed and the sick.
They use it to buy themselves private jets

salvation101:
Here is the thread where the convener of free the sheeple movement threw up a challenge to all his followers https://www.nairaland.com/4215954/tithe-against-poverty-challenge-daddy
The challenge is simply to use the money they would av used for tithing in their church to help the less privileged and poor around them... To my utmost surprise, on checking the thread wch is almost a week old, all i could see there was arguments as usual. I was expecting to see pics of ppl in different Idp camps and homes of tge less privilege like dey av been advising the pastors...

Is it that freeze doesn't av faithful followership?
Is it that the so called tithe dis ppl are talking about cant even buy Agege bread?
Is it dat dis ppl are just stingy??
Am curious, wanna know

Pyrusdrago:
Back up a bit to Malachi 2

And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the Lord of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.


Malachi 3v
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole Nation

As you can see the context is robbed me even this whole nation not the nation as it was address only to the priest

Pyrusdrago:
Malachi 3 is the Most Abused Tithing Text in the Bible.

The false teaching about tithes from Malachi 3 ignores five important Bible facts.

(1) Malachi is Old Covenant context and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing (Lev. 27:34; Neh. 10:28, 29; Mal. 3:7; 4:4).

(2) In 1:6; 2:1 and 3:1-5, Malachi is very clearly addressed to dishonest priests who are cursed because they had stolen the best offerings from God.

(3) The Levitical cities must be considered and Jerusalem was not a Levitical city (Josh 20, 21). It makes no sense to teach that 100% of the tithe was brought to the Temple when most Levites and priests did not live in Jerusalem.

(4) In Malachi 3:10-11 tithes are still only food (Lev. 27:30-33).

(5) The 24 courses of Levites and priests must also be considered. Beginning with King David and King Solomon, they were divided into 24 families. These divisions were also put into place in Malachi’s time by Ezra and Nehemiah. Since normally only one family served in the Temple for only one week at a time, there was absolutely no reason to send ALL of the tithe to the Temple when 98% of those it was designed to feed were still in the Levitical cities (1 Chron. 24-26; 28:13, 21; 2 Chron. 8:14; 23:8; 31:2, 15-19; 35:4, 5, 10; Ezra 6:18; Neh. 11:19, 30; 12:24; 13:9, 10; Luke 1:5).

Therefore, when the context of the Levitical cities, the 24 families of priests, under-age children, wives, Numbers 18:20-28, 2 Chronicles 31:15-19, Nehemiah 10-13, and all of Malachi are all evaluated, only about 2% of the total first tithe was normally required at the Temple in Jerusalem.
Both the blessing and the curse of Malachi 3:9-11 only lasted for Israelites until the Old Covenant ended at Calvary. Malachi’s audience had willingly reaffirmed the Old Covenant (Neh.10:28, 29). “Cursed be he that confirms not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen” (Deut. 27:26 quoted in Gal. 3:10). And Jesus ended the curse. “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree” (Gal. 3:13).

Today the very lowest income class pays the largest percentage to charity. Yet most remain in poverty. Neither the lottery, nor the tithe is a magic get-rich-quick answer to replace education, determination and hard work. If Malachi 3:10 really worked for New Covenant Christians, then millions of poor tithing Christians would have escaped poverty and would have become the wealthiest group of people in the world instead of remaining the poorest group. Therefore there is no evidence that the vast majority of poor “tithe-payers” are ever blessed financially merely because they tithe. The Old Covenant blessings are not New Covenant blessings (Heb. 7:18, 19; 8:6-8, 13).

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lovelylad:
Zimbabwean pastor trying to walk on water at the Crocodile River gets eaten by 3 crocodiles
A pastor from a local church in White River Mpumalanga died this morning trying to demonstrate a biblical miracle to his congregants.

Pastor Jonathan Mthethwa of the ‘Saint of the last days church drowned into the crocodile River also know as the crocodile river and was seen by his church members getting eaten by 3 crocodiles.
“The pastor taught us about faith on Sunday last week. He promised he would demonstrate his faith to us today, but he unfortunately ended up drowning and getting eaten by 3 large crocodiles in front of us.

We still don’t understand how this happened because he fasted and prayed the whole week.” said Deacon Nkosi, who is one of the church members.


It is said that Pastor Mthethwa walked into the water and when he was 30 meters inside the river, he attempted to ascend above the water so he can start walking, but the 3 crocodile appeared out of no where and started feasting on him.
“They finished him in a couple of minutes. All that was left of him when they finished eating him is a pair of sandals and his underwear floating above the water.” said Deacon Nkosi.
ER24 responded to the scene 30 minutes after,but upon arrival, there was not much they could do as the man of god was already dead.

https://www.cliqloaded.net/2017/12/zimbabwean-pastor-eaten-by-3-crocodiles-while-trying-to-walk-on-water-like-jesus-graphic-photos/

mickeymimi:
Hi ........do you think he is talking about money ..

my understanding is

Minister ..teach , Seed word of God.....food , u can eat , digest , swallow it...4 ur soul. ,, multiply ,,,increase in the knowledge and understanding of word .......Increase in righteousness ,,,conscious of sin and living holy life.

OkCornel:
God specifically stated what to is to be tithed in Deutoronomy 14;
Deutronomy 14 v 22-29

Tithes
22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.

23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always.

24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away),

25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose.

26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns,

29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

Dear "Tithers" I have copied and pasted the scriptures in NIV version. My questions are;

1) How did Tithe convert itself from foodstuffs as prescribed by God and now perverted into 10% of gold and silver as preached by
Pastorpreneurs?

2) Isn't tithe meant to be eaten and given at my discretion to "Levites" without inheritance, widows, stranded foreigners and Orphans?

[b]5) Did God give instructions to Abraham on what to tithe...or did Abraham tithe out of his discretion?

6) Are we following Abraham's standard on tithing or God's specific standard on tithing?

Martinez19:
God has angels. Why? What is the usefulness of an angel to God?

OkCornel:
If you insist on Matthew 23 v 23, hope you know that the Law was in full force by then as Jesus had not fulfilled the Law.

These are my questions;
1.) If you are using Matthew 23 v 23 to justify tithing...in that context...why aren't you doing animal sacrifice or keeping the sabbath (Saturday) day holy?

2.) How does Pastors with landed properties, luxurious cars and jets qualify to be the Levites without inheritance that should stand on the pulpit to ask for tithes?

3.) Please show a scripture where God instructed tithes to be paid in monetary form.
Thank you

OkCornel:
Based on the bolded...I acknowledge the fact that these people must survive, and that is where sacrificial giving and sharing from the congregants comes in so that no one will lack.

The fact that these Pastors and those who are called full time into the ministry should eat does not justify twisting the scriptures into deceiving people to part with 10% of their monthly salary (a.k.a. gold and silver) under the guise of "tithing"

I am not against giving to the altar...I am against the false doctrine of compulsory "monetary tithe" extortion

mickeymimi:
Pastors will be sayin sow seed of faith to challenge God .,,... I read bible n found out that "seed" never refers to money,,,it refers to Gods word ,

2 Corinthians 9:10 (KJV)
Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

Emmanuel1999:
owk tanks then how will the tithe get to God does he have an account...when he said when i was hungry u didnt feed me... He neva meant himself he meant the needy

OkCornel:
Bro, I am giving at my discretion and not because of any "offering" obligations under the Law.

Sacrificial giving as directed by the Holy Spirit

and the requirements of the New Covenant (Jesus Christ) is my benchmark.[/b]

Kindly answer my questions now that I have answered yours...

And you have not answered how Pastors with landed properties, luxurious cars and jets are now the Levites without inheritance that should stand on the pulpit to ask for tithes...
Thank you.

Martinez19:
KingEbukasBlog, butterflylion, felixomor, bennyann, Petra1, jiggaz, Oladeegbu, I need some explanation.

OkCornel:
My dear, Luke 18v12 is a zealot's perspective on tithing. The zealot has gone beyond the requirements of the law to justify his self righteousness. Are you now using the standard of a zealot to replace God's standard requirement of what should really be tithed?

If you insist on Matthew 23 v 23, hope you know that the Law was in full force by then as Jesus had not fulfilled the Law.
If you are using Matthew 23 v 23 to justify tithing...in that context...why aren't you doing animal sacrifice or keeping the sabbath (Saturday) day holy?

realhonips:
I've decided to give my first-ever-salary after NYSC to my mum.
What are you guys thought?
#titheornottight #daddyfreeze #choice #eaadeboye #doyedepo #church #mymumdeservemorethanthis #thisisjustthebeginning

Cc: lalasticlala

OkCornel:
Let me look for Geneva Bible and Quote then;

Matthew 23:23

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

23 ¶ [a]Woe be to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: for ye tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and leave the weightier matters of the law, as judgment, and mercy and fidelity. These ought ye to have done, and not to have left the other.

[b]Luke 18:12
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

12 I fast twice in the week: I give tithe of all that ever I possess.

Like I've stated earlier...there's nowhere God instructed that tithes should be paid in monetary form.

1) If the GOs and Pastors have other businesses they do, the scripture in Deutronomy 14 states that Levites are beneficiaries of tithes because
they do not have any inheritance in the Land.
How does Levites with no inheritance automatically translate into GOs and Pastors with Landed properties and Jets and flashy cars who are
now demanding for tithes? What gives them the scriptural rights into hoodwinking people to pay monetary tithes?

2) Animal sacrifices have occurred even before the Law, and as a Principle...it even transcends the Law. Please show me where Jesus
condemned animal sacrifice, and tell us why you are not doing animal sacrifice if Jesus Himself never condemned it?

intrepidJ:
I am from Edo State but born and bred in Lagos, with no ties to my state of origin. My grandfather however was a native doctor, and as a kid before the age of 7 or 8 I remember my father taking me to some dirty native doctors place where I am sometimes made to take a shower. I have had incisions made on my body with blades after which some dark substance is robed on it.

My dad is a born again Christian now, prays and fasts often. My question is will the FOUR generational curses mentioned in the bibe affect me?even though my father who is now born again must have broken the curse with prayers? My life is a mess. I suffered untold emotional abuse growing up. My adult hood is no different. I am victimized everywhere, people take undue advantage and make mockery of me. What I find really bizzare is people coming together to gossip about me where ever I got I find this very odd, I am always hated, despised, lied against, unjustly accused. It goes on and on. I'm 34 now, will likely never get married because I have OCD and am Schizotipal, but i can live with that. But i am currently facing spiritual affliction by some bastards who accuse me of dabbling Into witchcraft and bewitching them. An entire family have waged a spiritual war on me, for what I did not do.

Heres the puzzling thing. I go on my knees and cry to God for help. God always responds immediately, but then they come back. I was made to understand that they are trying to take my life but God almighty stands in their way. At home I see cockroaches anywhere I am, in places they have no busines being there. When I play gospel songs by Paul Wilbur some thing strange happens, cockroaches starts coming out of their hidden places to die in my living room. There are birds all monitoring me each time I step out. I leave home and run to the hotel they still somehow locate me.

Recently my toilets keeps getting clogged. If I fix it today within 48 hours it will mysteriously get clogged again, I fix it it repeats the circle. I have another toilet downstairs exactly the same phenomenon. It's gotten so bad I cannot even use the toilets anymore, so I left the house. There us this bizzare smell that permeates my house and as a consequences i have been forced to live in isolationist. I have no friends, it seems to me %80 of my friends are into juju or witchcraft.

I was just watching a tape on monitoring spirits when I came across generational curses and its effect on generations as far down as the 4th generations. Could this be why I keep getting hated, lied about, gossiped about and taken advantage of?

Emmanuel1999:
i will be very glad if sum1 answer this question...
What if we pay tithe to a pastor with a church of 100 capacity and instead of taking care of the widows, he builds a church of 1000 capacity(to grow the church and welcome more brothers) are we going to say it is a sin or the pastor is an pastorpreneur...or he did well...

OkCornel:
It's interesting to see that Freeze is a Hypocrite, but when you twist the TRUTH to support a false doctrine (that tithe is cash or gold and silver) ...what do you call that?

You subtly quoted NLT and MSG translations of the Bible whereas, you of all people should know that the first Bible interpreted from Latin and Greek Septuagint is the KJV (King James Version)

Now let me quote the KJV version of the verses you stated here and [color=#006600]show me where Tithe is paid on generic income...rather than crops and livestock.

[b]Matthew 23:23King James Version (KJV)

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


Luke 18:12King James Version (KJV)

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Note that Luke 18:12 is about a zealous observer of the Law who has gone beyond paying tithes on crops and livestock.
Unless you want to use a zealot's basis for tithing as the generic basis for paying tithes which is against the requirements of the Law...please ride on and lead others into error as well...

Before you rush to include Gold and Silver OR Money as part of titheable items..kindly make reference to what GOD ALMIGHTY has defined tithes to be

Deuteronomy 14 King James Version (KJV)

22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee:

25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose:

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:

29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Does a Pastor that owns land and landed property, Jets and all sorts qualify to be a Levite that has no inheritance? What gives them the scriptural right to collect tithes in monetary form?

OkCornel:
Yeah...at least Freeze is a Hypocrite

Spot the difference, Freeze spends his money to buy expensive stuffs to show off....meanwhile Pastorpreneurs use the money of sheeples collected
through false doctrines

to buy expensive things and show off (COZA Pastor comes to mind). Please tell us which one is worse

Is tithe 10% of crops and livestock OR 10% of gold and silver as preached by Pastorpreneurs?

OkCornel:
Please can you mention one verse in the bible where tithe was paid in cash? Can you see how you are adding to God's word?

After God gave Moses specific instructions on how tithes should be paid, kindly mention a scripture where tithe was paid in gold and silver.

If you cannot point to any scriptures, then kindly tell us why the church is flouting God's instruction on tithing by collecting in cash...that's if the Pastorpreneurs have the scriptural rights to do so.

Thank you.

OkCornel:
This same bible verse again?

Are churches even tithing in line with the requirements of the scriptures?
Is tithe 10% of harvested crops and livestock OR 10% of monthly gold and silver?

Nobody is against giving to the church. What I am against is preaching of false doctrines that tithe is 10% of monthly gold and silver.

Do well to reply me with me a scriptural definition of tithe, and compare this to what the Church is doing today.

Thanks and Cheers

WhichWayNaija:
I do not remember, if daddy freeze ever said giving/giving offering in church is wrong. He only hinted on tithing being wrong in the present dispensation of grace.

Acidosis:
1. Apostle Paul requested for money

(1 Corinthians 16:2, NIV)

Apostle Paul particularly instructed the people to set aside a sum of money that is proportionate to their income. This was a convenient way of collecting the money, that has now become a trend among Christians every Sunday. Is Paul a fat-fed and corrupt Apostle?

2. Jesus watched as the "Sheeple" widow dropped money for corrupt religious leaders but He did not free the "Sheeple"

- Mark 12:41-


At the time Jesus observed the widow's offering, the treasury was managed by corrupt religious leaders, but Jesus did not free the sheeple widow. Nowhere was it mentioned that Jesus instructed her not to give her last penny! Instead Christ was interested in blessing her seed. Ask yourself, would Jesus partake in the #freethesheeple movement if He and the Apostles were around today?

3. If your Pastor sow spiritual things to you, it is right and appropriate to give him those material things you can afford, and Yes, that includes a Jet!

- 1 Corinthians 9:9-14

Ucheamani:
Please note that tithe was part of the law code that were fulfilled in Christ Gal 3: 23 & 24, Hebrews 7:5-19.

Tithe actually negates the spirit and principle of Christian giving according to 2cor 9:7... Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart ...not under compulsion.

The hypocrisy in today's Christendom is evident in the fact that other parts of the law like animal sacrifice and sabbath are neither mentioned nor discussed even when these are more serious like sabbath which carries death penalty - Numbers 15: 32-35

ArcFresky:
My church.....
We collect tithe, not from looters not to buy private jets, but to bring more men to christ.

Ken4Christ:
Yes, salvation is purely by grace and not of works. This is the requirements to get saved. But after you are saved, you are expected to do good works. Hence, Ephesians 2:10 says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them".

In addition Apostle Paul wrote, "Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works". (Titus 2:14). From this verse, we are not only expected to be involved in good works, we are supposed to be passionate about it. Failure to do that can make you lose your salvation.

Those who claim they are saved but are not involved in good works are those who "...profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.(Titus 1:16). "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us". (2nd Timothy 2:12).

If you read carefully the letters our Lord Jesus wrote to the seven Churches in Asia minor, the emphasis was on works to each of the churches. And he warned them to repent and do the works they are supposed to do otherwise they will suffer the consequence.

The last letter which was addressed to the Church in Laodicians is of particular interest.

"He told them, I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."(Revelation 3:14-15).

What do you suppose Jesus meant when he said, I will spue thee out of my mouth? This is as good as saying, I will completely reject you. That city is located in the present day Turkey which are predominantly now Muslims.

The letters Jesus wrote to these churches is also addressed to us. At the end of each letter, It says, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches".

A believer who says I am saved by grace but completely passive towards the works of the kingdom can be likened to a wicked and unreasonable servant in the parable of the talent. And the Scripture says,

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth - Matthew 25:30.

In Hebrews 10:25, Apostle Paul cautioned against habitual abstinence from Church meetings. He concluded that those who do that will fall under the judgment of God - Hebrews 10:26-31.

The message of grace has really been highly misunderstood. That you are saved by grace should even inspire you to serve God with zeal. If after your salvation, you are not ardently involved in a local Church, you have invariably nullified your salvation.

In summary, your good works does not save you but after you are saved, your good works preserves your salvation.