₦airaland Forum

petra1

There is no point presenting more scriptures to you . If you can't see it from the points I've raised you can't see in . Until God unveils .

Please! Please!! Can you just let us have ONE of those scriptures again; one that CLEARLY states your position.

Because your mind is set on rubishing whatever point raised .

Nobody wants to rubbish anything. I believe we are only out to make each other understand things better.

Is there a mandate to honor parents , is there a mandate not to commit incest. In the church .

Let’s stick with the issue- no mandate REQUIRES tithing for the Christian. He is to choose how to give to God.

Brother there are somethings I'm restraining myself from saying it will be waste of time because I'm not dealing with an objective seeker of truth but rather someone who is out to mock the faith of another .

Even if you restrain yourself from opening up to me, why not do it for the sake of hundreds of others who are viewing this thread?

But I will say this. The church age is only a dispensation. It will end . The principles of God continues. The church age is only a part of the kingdom of God . The principles of the kingdom will always be . Men will always worship God with substance

Surely the church age as a dispensation must have its ‘rules of engagement’!
Yes, the dispensation of the church will end, BUT while it lasts does it not have its ‘modus operandi’ and ‘modus vivendi’?

You have agreed yourself that there are some things in past dispensations that no longer apply to the church e.g. animal sacrifices which was one of the MAJOR rules in relating with God in those dispensations. How did we come to know that a change has occurred regarding animal sacrifices to God – by going back to the shadow of the old covenant or by using the reality of the New Covenant to understand it?

The 21st Century Christian is not the first generation of the church. So, the issue is how did our forebears see these things as revealed to them in the New Testament epistles? Did they see it like you see it or do you TODAY have a better “revelation” than they did?

“Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or UNDER COMPULSION …”
2 Corinthians 9:7

petra1

Eternal principles simply means . There's no end to them . No time limit. No end to tithes. Offerings ,prayers ,good works etc. They are principles in the kingdom of God. .

It is clear that you have been UNABLE to give clear biblical support for your ‘eternal principles’ jargon. You were asked OVER AND OVER AGAIN to provide simple explanations and point to ANY SCRIPTURE to justify your position but you have not been able to do so.
When and where in the Bible were these ‘eternal principles’ set up? How according to the Bible are they to be observed?

I know you guys know what I'm talking about.You just don't want to admit it.

How can we ‘KNOW’ what you are talking about when you have refused to make it plain?

If you don't give to God it's your business. But the truth remains . You're robbing God . Coming up with theological jargon to excuse your conscience doesn't change the fact.

No one is talking about not giving to God. The Scripture is clear for the Christian to know enough about giving. So, MAKE NO MISTAKE about this; no one is saying ‘don’t give to God’.
The issue again is this: THERE IS NO MANDATE IN SCRIPTURE FOR THE NEW COVENANT BELIEVER TO TITHE COMPULSORILY!

We have not used any ‘theological jargon’, rather it is you TITHERS that have done so with your ‘eternal principle’, ‘tithing by faith’ ‘revelation’, etc. jargon. What we have done is use scripture upon scripture to show you God’s position on giving for today.

You guys are the ones who want to SOOTHE your consciences – because you’re afraid you may be ‘robbing’ God – by insisting on and yoking yourselves to MANDATORY TITHING.

The TRUTH is there for the Christian to see – how did your fellow Christians (New Covenant believers) in the Bible give to God? Sincerely seeking the answer to that question will make you move ahead.

“… Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” 2 Corinthians 3:17

1. Today’s tithing as pushed by TITHERS AND CHURCHES is fraudulent and mischievous.
2. The Malachi tithe was one and the same as that found in the Law of Moses.
3. NOTHING in the Law of Moses on tithing specified MONETARY TITHING.
4. ONLY AGRICULTURAL PRODUCE were tithed.
5. Changing WHAT, WHERE & WHO to pay tithe to by today’s churches means TWISTING the word of God for selfish gain.
6. None of those who push tithing can show that the Apostles practiced it nor the early church generations that followed them.
7. When they are cornered by explanation of Malachi passage they resort to “Kingdom Principles” or “Eternal Principles” – phrases they cannot explain.
8. Today’s tithers claim to be under the New Covenant yet they REFUSE to follow anything in the BLUEPRINT for the New Covenant – the epistles which actually explains what the SHADOW of the Old Covenant represented.
9. Instead they ‘copy and paste’ from here and there to soothe their consciences, even where it is against God’s clear mandate. As long as they like it or they think they are getting ‘results’ they justify their position.
10. Majority of today’s tithers do it because of any of the following:
- Fear instilled in them by pastors.
- Claims that some benefit comes from it.
- Pressure of one form or the other
- Lack of knowledge of the Christian life in the New Covenant.
11. Under the New Covenant EVERY CHRISTIAN is a priest (1 Peter 2: 5, 9) PASTORS only hold different position BECAUSE of their SPIRITUAL GIFTS. Therefore even if – and that’s a big ‘if’ for that matter – tithing were to be applied to the church, all PRIESTS should be partakers of it.
12. Tithers of today have CLOSED their eyes to how the church gave and administered what believers gave as stated in the Bible. NONE of them follow their example, NONE. How come?

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be
BURDENED again by a yoke of slavery" Galatians 5: 1

petra1:
It means as long as other biblical principles applies to the church such as prayer. , worship ,offering ,tithing also does .

It is clear from this your answer that it’s likely you are UNABLE to explain what ‘eternal principles’ are or what that phrase means. You guys must have picked it up from somewhere and are now using it to sidetrack or deflect others from seeing your true motives for tithing.

Not all biblical principles of previous dispensations apply to the church. If Acts 15 does not clear that in your mind then I doubt if anything will.

Therefore, a SINCERE Christian would want to KNOW what applies to the church today. That a thing is in the Bible DOES NOT necessarily mean it applies to the church. The church HOLDS a higher position in God’s plan than any other past dispensations or any that is to come! You will be belittling the church to think that you can lump it up with any other dispensation.

I genuinely hope that your inability or perhaps unwillingness to clearly explain yourself does not mean you’re being DECEPTIVE. Perhaps it is that you do not really understand a phrase you may have picked up from some pastor or somewhere.

petra1:
By the way when I changed my moniker . It wasn't secret . I opened a thread on it.

Empty barrel. Abeg , Next person pls?

By "eternal" do you mean that before time and creation of man tithing existed?
In other words, what do you mean by "eternal "?

Gombs:
Thanks for your time

You're welcome!

Gombs

Where is tithing against the word of God ooooo?

Don't MISREPRESENT what we are saying.
What we are saying is this: The Christian is NOT UNDER ANY obligation to tithe.
The Christian is to personally choose what to give and should not be coerced, pressured or manipulated in any form to give any particular amount or particular PERCENTAGE of money.
The rule is - each one should give as he has purposed in his heart. To that extent, MANDATORY TITHING runs CONTRARY to God's rule for GIVING for the new Testament believer.

Don't shift the goal post... The question is, where did anyone here say tithing is mandatory (a must)?

I gree... Will you let me and tithing be now? See as you stylish avoided this

Since Christ has given you a better revelation, how come you haven't started the revival? Start your own church and teach the new revelation God's given you na... All this mouth here can't help you on the day he asks you "how far"


I can understand why

I can't recall mentioning that Christ has personally given me a new revelation. ALL that we need for our spiritual under the New Covenant has been given to us. AND, btw, TITHING IS NOT included there.

Gombs

I and other tithers want to be burdened.. We appreciate your concern, but.. We're just fine bro

So, you prefer to stand AGAINST the clear word of God. If that is your choice what can we say?

No need for this deception. Where did you see anyone say tithing is a must? Is it not you guys that keep saying tithing must be stopped?

What Deception is in this: Does our FREEDOM in Christ cover our giving? Absolutely YES!

The HISTORY of the early Church show how believers gave. There were numerous instances of GIVING. Not once was TITHING or any form of MANDATORY GIVING mentioned. Not once!
Or did you not read through well?
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Since Christ has given you a better revelation, how come you haven't started the revival? Start your own church and teach the new revelation God's given you na... All this mouth here can't help you on the day he asks you "how far"

I see!! You are WORKS DRIVEN! That is why you guys feel that you need to DO TITHING in order to earn God's approval. No wonder!

Gombs:
I will tithe... Come and stop me.

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be BURDENED again by a yoke of slavery" Galatians 5: 1


Does our FREEDOM in Christ cover our giving? Absolutely YES!

The HISTORY of the early Church show how believers gave. There were numerous instances of GIVING. Not once was TITHING or any form of MANDATORY GIVING mentioned. Not once!

Instead what we find is the encouragement and challenge to choose to give and be generous in giving.

Today's tithing PROMOTERS however have succeeded in robbing the Christian of his freedom purchased by Christ and have used all kinds of gimmicks to yoke the believer to a system of GIVING not mandated for the church age.

petra1

Everything in Gods kingdom is serious. Tithes ,offerings ,prayers ,alms giving etc. One obedience doesn't supplant the other.

ANYTHING SERIOUS in the Word of God that the Christian needs to comply with is SPECIFICALLY mentioned in the epistles. Anything not stated there as REQUIRED of the Christian is UNIMPORTANT - TITHING INCLUDED.

It's non givers who looks for straw to cover their their consciences. Tithers don't complain.

I want to think that you're old enough as a Christian to know that the issue is not about us. It is about God. Did Uzzah complain when he wanted to help God with stabilizing the Ark? Did God accept his non-complaint? The issue is not whether tithers are excited about doing it or not, the issue is are they doing God's will?

Nobody says tithing is mandatory. Nothing is mandatory . There's difference between necessity and mandatory. Your worship of God is still within your will power to do or not to do.

Let us not go into semantics and grammar like Gombs tried to do with i think Candour. What is the difference between NECESSITY AND MANDATORY? Hardly any difference.
Merriam Webster Dictionary:[i][/i]
necessity - something that you must have or do: something that is necessary.
necessary - so important that you do it or have it : absolutely needed.
So, what is your take?

When you guys switch to using 'eternal principles' to push tithing you are actually saying that it something established from before time to be observed. And when you do that are you not saying it is MANDATORY and not left free will decision?

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be BURDENED again by a yoke of slavery" Galatians 5: 1

petra1:
Honesty test. 001. They can't admit it . That means they get my point . Case closed. The rest will be Yabis watch out . When bible fail na yabis remain.

The simple truth tithers need to realize is this: ALL that we need to know in order for us to live our spiritual life under the NEW COVENANT have been given to us by those COMMISSIONED by Christ to do so - the Apostles.

If TITHING is as serious as today's tithers are painting it to be it would have been a recurring theme in the epistles. The plain truth is that it is not.

That is why tithers resort to the Old Testament to look for any STRAW they can get hold of to soothe their consciences that it's ok for them to still mandatorily tithe.

It needs to be emphasised again that THERE'S NO MANDATORY TITHING UNDER THE NEW COVENANT.

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be BURDENED again by a yoke of slavery" Galatians 5: 1

Gombs:
Is it that you don't know how to read?

And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

What is difficult here to understand biko?

If tithing is a law, how then or what law justifies levites paying tithe to Melchizedek through Abraham?

The book of Hebrews focuses on the fact that Jesus Christ is
- Superior to angels
- Superior in his priesthood to ALL priesthood that previously existed
- Superior in his ministry
- Superior in the New Covenant he has instituted

The references, illustrations and comparisons were all to butress this SINGULAR fact of his superiority.

Picking one verse out of context here and there to use in justifying your position on tithing not only diminishes the message the writer is passing across but also shows lack of true biblical scholarship.

Whatever system that God instituted for believers of previous dispensation were GOOD or in another word HOLY. However what Christ brought is BETTER or SUPERIOR to anything that previously existed. That is what the book of Hebrews is saying.

Saying that ANYTHING in the book of Hebrews calls the Christian to go back to any PRACTICE pre-law or pertaining to the Law is either a lack of understanding of that book or a deliberate intention to be mischievous.

petra1:
Can I ask a simple question? What was the scripture that they used in Paul's day?

Are you honestly still asking questions when have failed or refused to answer the questions you were asked?

Remember these:

Bring the scripture talking about kingdom principles

Which scripture talks about God's principles
His principles are the law
That was why He gave them out
Which principles again
Gimme a scripture

A believer is not required to tithe because it is a law
And according to the law, tithe is agricultural products and must be given to levites, poor, widow and eat it during feasts
This is the law

There is nothing like kingdom principles
If you think there is something like that, prove with a scripture

openmine:
That scripture is explicit and clear as daylight...U are d one that refuses to see it...
Did U see any where it was written that its "not in content"?
My issue with You and other tithe preachers is that U lack scripture backing for ur preposterous theories...hence no one takes you serious any more...
Putting up Ur own words to what is already clear only means U have ulterior motives...


Hebrews 7:18

The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was WEAK and USELESS

The grammar is as simple as John 3:16
Haba...



I guess U didn't see this or u intentionally ignored it...




Thats for a sinner but not for a new convert or believer




Another question...based on verse 8,do U know that if u break a law,You are guilty of ALL the LAWS?




Its obvious U are trying to be evasive and dishonest!!
If You said U missed the question,then it says much about ur inability not to learn Or maybe U r afraid of the questions...
Well...am going to be generous enough to offer U one of the questions while waiting for the rest...
One more time... Provide me with scriptures on tithe being an eternal principle?
If U dont know, Just be honest and humble enough to admit that you dont Know...simple

We are waiting for Petra1 and his camp - Gombs, et al to give a simple clear answer.

When they claim to know but cannot provide a straightforward answers to questions then something must be wrong somewhere.
Lets however hope that this time around they will be civil and honest enough not to find reason(s) to 'check out'.

petra1:
He said the same way the ministers of the temple got their welfare . Same goes for the ministers of the gospel . It's tithes and offerings God had ordained . And recorded from Melchizedek to date

You guys are very SLIMY.
He asked you to specifically point out where TITHE is in your referenced passage in 1 Cor. 9:13 - 14 and after rambling what you come up with is the above.
Where can you show us that the New Covenant believer is MANDATED to pay tithe by the foundation builders of the CHURCH - the Apostles?

I'm sure you'll find None. So, why not just LEARN instead of conjuring up FABLES.

There was a time when God chose to relate with man on a one-on-one basis as it were.

Then came the time when God decided to use a SINGLE NATION – Israel – to reach mankind.

A time came again when God chose to use another entity – the CHURCH – to be his instrument of reaching and relating with mankind.

In each of these cases God established his systems (his modus operandi) of administration.

Suppose someone under Israel decided that he was going to ignore God’s system for his time and choose to use what God instituted in the previous era to run his spiritual life. He might even argue that: “After all, God was the one that set up that same system”. What would any reasonable person think of that individual – smart, innovative, discerning? Or simply foolish and disobedient?

In the same way what should we think of one under the church age who decides to ignore God’s stipulation for the SPIRITUAL LIFE of this time – the church age – and go back to use any of the systems of the previous eras – smart, innovative, discerning? Or simply foolish and disobedient?
He may even choose to appear brilliant and use such terms as – ‘ETERNAL PRINCIPLES’.

That is what today’s TITHERS are. Instead of learning – because in many cases they don’t know – the system of the spiritual life under the church age, they simply choose to go back to WHAT THEY THINK operated in the previous DISPENSATIONS and decide to run their spiritual lives by it. They actually end up making a ship wreck of their spiritual lives.

Today’s TITHER is NOT THE FIRST GENERATION of the church. Does he therefore know more about the spiritual life of the church age than the PIONEERS?
Did the PIONEERS engage in the gimmicks he has chosen to get into today – TITHING, etc ?
Did the PIONEERS emphasize or put in all the hue and cry about tithing that today’s tither would want us believe?

Today’s tithers have simply refused to seek out what the PIONEERS OF OUR FAITH under the church age have so clearly spelt out and follow it. They have decided to devise their own systems and run by it. In the end they will have their reward IN FULL.

The church age is different from others. THERE IS NO MANDATORY OR FORCED GIVING – SUCH AS TITHING – UNDER THE CHURCH AGE.

Gombs:
Because it was paid by our Father of faith to an eternal priesthood which order Jesus is of today.

It is clear from this your answer that you are using "ANOTHER GOSPEL " to justify your tithing.

I'm sure you may not even be able to simply explain this sentence you created from


The plain truth is that there is no single demand placed on the Christian under the NEW COVENANT to tithe.

Any purported demand comes from MANIPULATION of scriptures or concoctions of man and not from any clear scriptural injunction.

Gombs:

Assuming that tithing is under the law, from the above bold, why can't I teach tithing since it doesn't mean I'm under that law?

Keep deceiving yourself.

PRE-LAW tithing recorded in the Scripture was unforced – the Abraham’s tithe of war bounty and Jacob’s promise to pay.
The Tithing commanded in the Law is MANDATORY. E.g. Leviticus 27: 30.

One is more or less free will tithing and the other mandated. One is possibly anything, as can be seen from Abraham giving of war bounty while the other is SPECIFIC – i.e. AGRICULTURAL PRODUCE.

Now, today’s tithers say it is ONLY MONEY, at least from what is mostly bandied about today.

My question for today’s tithers then is this:
On what Biblical instruction are today’s tithers paying their tithes – is it on the ASSUMPTION that because there is tithe payment in the Bible then it is still applicable today or is there a clearly defined INSTRUCTIONS (UNDER THE NEW COVENANT) that they can point to?

When God established the tithe he said it was to be 10% of Israel’s AGRICULTURAL produce. There was MONEY in use then but God still specified it as farm produce. In fact under certain conditions God allowed that they could TURN THEIR TITHE into MONEY (i.e. convert the tithe into money by selling them), take the money to where they are to tithe and use the money to buy back the tithe items for observance of the tithe. NO MONEY was used in TITHING!

Leviticus 27:30-33 ESV

“Every tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the trees, is the Lord's; it is holy to the Lord. If a man wishes to redeem some of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it. And every tithe of herds and flocks, every tenth animal of all that pass under the herdsman's staff, shall be holy to the Lord. One shall not differentiate between good or bad, neither shall he make a substitute for it; and if he does substitute for it, then both it and the substitute shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.”

So, if you must tithe, do it God’s way as clearly prescribed in his Word. Failure to follow God’s clearly laid down procedure is tantamount to DISOBEDIENCE!

GRACE GUARANTEES ETERNAL SECURITY

What Is Grace (1)
Eternal Security has been a hotly debated issue in Christianity. Some claim that the Christian can lose his salvation. Others, on the other, hand believe the Christian cannot.

To have a full understanding of this topic there is the need to first grasp the meaning of the popular definition of GRACE i.e. “Unmerited favour”. Unmerited favour means an expression of kindness done to someone who does not qualify for it or deserve it. The expression of kindness is not done because of any MERIT or WORTH on the part of the recipient. If there is even a very small degree of merit on the part of the recipient that warranted the expression of kindness, then it can no longer be considered UNMERITTED, but would be a reward or payment! In other words, it would be deserved; it would be something earned!

Illustration
Imagine a student who sat for an admission exam where the pass mark for admission into the course of his choice is 300. Let’s say that the student scored 310 and was admitted, that would not be a favour done to him. However, if on the other hand the student scored 150 and the admission officer, in spite of knowing that the student did not meet the cut off mark, and without any coercion, still chose to admit him that would be an UNMERITED FAVOUR! That would be grace extended to one who is undeserving. Unearned!

Until the Christian has a full grasp of the meaning of GRACE and accepts it as the word of God clearly teaches it, progress in his spiritual life will be difficult if not impossible.

A Biblical Teaching On Grace
A story in the Bible which should clear any doubt as to grace being unmerited favour is that found in Luke 10: 30 – 35. It is popularly referred to as THE PARABLE OF THE GOOD SAMARITAN:
“ ….. A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said; ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you’”

A number of things come out of this narrative:
- The man was in a helpless situation.
- The Samaritan – a total stranger – came to his rescue.
- The Samaritan intervened not because he was reciprocating a past good act the man had done to him.
- The Samaritan did not even consider a future compensation he might get from the man. [Remember, the story said he was on a journey and in all likelihood their paths may never cross again].
- The credit belonged entirely to the Samaritan; the man contributed absolutely NOTHING to the grace he received.
- Once the gracious act was performed, it became irreversible – even if the man on recovery queried the Samaritan or abused him, the act done would still be irrevocable.

Jesus was teaching here (amongst other things) the total inability of anyone – apart from mercy (v.37) – to deserve eternal life; answering the question that led to this whole narrative in the first place.

This is how God loves us. Not on the basis of our ‘goodness’ or a perceived future good standing we would maintain. Indeed what can we do for God, either now in time or in eternity? Just as the man did nothing to deserve all that was done for him neither can we do anything to earn or contribute to getting eternal life. It is always a GIFT expression from God.

“But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy ……. So that having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life” Titus 3: 4 – 7

When God established the tithe he said it was to be 10% of Israel’s AGRICULTURAL produce. There was MONEY in use then but God still specified it as farm produce. In fact under certain conditions God allowed that they could TURN THEIR TITHE into MONEY (i.e. convert the tithe into money by selling them), take the money to where they are to tithe and use the money to buy back the tithe items for observance of the tithe. NO MONEY was used in TITHING!

Leviticus 27:30-33 ESV

“Every tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the trees, is the Lord's; it is holy to the Lord. If a man wishes to redeem some of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it. And every tithe of herds and flocks, every tenth animal of all that pass under the herdsman's staff, shall be holy to the Lord. One shall not differentiate between good or bad, neither shall he make a substitute for it; and if he does substitute for it, then both it and the substitute shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.”

So, if you must tithe, do it God’s way as clearly prescribed in his Word. Failure to follow God’s clearly laid down procedure is tantamount to DISOBEDIENCE!

Mowoe:
Crazy? Is it not thesame Bible that has Malachi 3:10? Truth is everyone wants to interprete the Bible in a way it favors them.. Paying tithe was my decision, not my pastor's. I believed I would work for me as Malachi puts it and Its working....
#MyDecisionMyBlessing

We are not at liberty to decide on how to deal with God or serve him. We are to FOLLOW [/b]his prescribed way of relating with him – not our own way but his way.
Typical case: Uzzah (1 Chronicles 13: 5 – 10)
God had given [b]SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS as to how to handle the holy things of the tabernacle, including the Ark. This was several years, I think hundreds of years before this incident. They were NOT to touch any of the holy things or they will die. (Numbers 4:15). But Uzzah thought it was more important to ‘protect’ the Ark than to obey God’s clear mandate not to touch it. The EMOTION of the moment felt better than simply following the Word of God. In the end he died. Who knows what miracle God would have shown Israel that day which the enthusiasm of Uzzah stalled.
Recall what Samuel told Saul: “To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams”
No Christian has a right to value his feelings or perceived good intentions or morality of his actions over the more reasonable Word of God.

For example, a Christian may wake up and say “I want to burn incense unto to Lord like the priests used to do”. “I want it to be a sweet smelling savour to the Lord”. And he goes ahead to do that justifying on the basis that: (1) It is in the Bible, (2) He is a royal priest, (3) He just feels like doing it, etc,etc. But all these seemingly ‘GOOD’ reasons cannot be enough to approve his actions without going back to the Scriptures and really seeing if God’s word approves of it.

So when it comes to TITHING the first issues for anyone to consider are:
- What does the Word of God say about it?
- What constitutes tithe?
- How is it to be done?
To answer the questions we need to go back to WHEN God instituted the tithe. When God established the tithe he said it was to be 10% of Israel’s AGRICULTURAL produce. There was MONEY in use then but God still specified it as farm produce. In fact under certain conditions God allowed that they could TURN THEIR TITHE into MONEY (i.e. convert the tithe into money by selling them), take the money to where they are to tithe and use the money to buy back the tithe items for observance of the tithe. NO MONEY was used in TITHING!

God also gave reasons why they were to tithe. The Levites were a key beneficiary because God gave them no land. The rest of Israel was to support them as a result.
Therefore God still expected Israel to follow his EXACT ORDER! It was not to be based on expediency. It was not to be based on current necessity needing change or adjustment.

I’ve tried to be brief because most of the details have been dealt with severally on nairaland. What any interested enquirer need do is search preferably using ‘Google’ on tithing with nairaland included in the search words – ‘Google’ throws up better results than nairaland search.

So, when anyone comes to Malachi 3:10 the rational questions are:
- What tithe is God talking about here?
- Is it the one he had previously instituted or is it a new one?
- If it is the existing one, what are his specifications?
- If it is a new one what are its requirements?
It is obvious that the tithe Malachi talks about is the one instituted in the MOSAIC LAW. If so, the next thing an honest person should do is to go back and see ALL that is said about its operations there in the Mosaic Law.

Remember like I said earlier NO CHRISTIAN has a right to disregard God’s own clear instructions on how to do a thing, and then follow his perceived opinion as to WHAT tithe is or HOW to go about tithing. That would be ARROGANCE!
No Christian has a right to REDEFINE what God has clearly stated. A thing said to be done for God MUST be done in God’s way for it to receive God’s approval. That is the simple but plain truth.

A Christian who REFUSES to do God’s thing in God’s way but still claims to be getting results can only be getting results from some other source and NOT God.

It is always NOT ABOUT US but about God. All the glory must be to God. No glory must be ‘shared’ with God.

BTW, why are those so strong in Christian tithing not doing other things the Mosaic Law prescribed? How come they are not into feast of weeks, feast of trumpets, etc? How did they come about SINGLING out tithing? And REDEFINING what and how it is to be operated? Who gave them this authority: deciding to change God’s own instructions?

God is a God of order and specificity. He is a God of PROTOCOL. When he gave Moses instructions he would add some words or phrases like “See to it that you make them ACCORDING to the pattern which was shown you”. Imagine if Moses went away and decided that his own choice of design is more attractive and goes ahead to follow his mind rather than God’s? What would you call that? Creativity or disobedience?

- What did God say tithe is, as clearly written down in his Word?
- How did he say tithing should be observed?
- Did he say it is 10% of ANYTHING – clothes, MONEY, etc?
- Did he leave room for flexibility on the part of the tither to make any change?

So, if you must tithe, do it God’s way as clearly prescribed in his Word. Failure to follow God’s clearly laid down procedure is tantamount to DISOBEDIENCE!

Many church leaders today have designed their own systems and have totally DISREGARDED The clearly revealed Word of God.
They come up with their own definition of words, choose what a passage of scripture means and apply it as they feel like.
That, unfortunately, is what has happened to the tithe issue. The Biblical position has been set aside for the doctrines of men.

The excuse that because "it works for me" therefore it's ok shows how Christians have become so unthinking and ridiculously crazy.

It is interesting that Muslims will go to any length – even changing the meaning of words and portions in their own quran – just to do all they can to attempt to ‘prove’ their point on any issue.

Going to any length to prove a point is what I see the OP attempt to do here.

In spite of the superior position the quran presents of Jesus – in some instances actually indicating that he was referred to as the SAVIOUR – many Muslims still refuse to accept him for who he is.
The UNIQUENESS of Jesus is very clear in the quran. More is said about him than even Mohamed. His pre-eminence over every other human being is stressed. These uniqueness were highlighted in the thread – https://www.nairaland.com/2391643/uniqueness-jesus-quran

It should be clear to Muslims like Rilwayne001 that even the quran will stand in evidence against them that they simply refused to believe in the only one who could have delivered them from eternity in hell because it (the quran) has provided ENOUGH EVIDENCE for them to know that Jesus Christ is SAVIOUR [/b]and [b]LORD.

I believe this thread did justice to this issue :
https://www.nairaland.com/2489382/where-did-mohammeds-stories-come#36422401

The influence of not only Christianity but other religions can be seen throughout the Quran.

Pastopreneur:
PLS NOTE: I RUN A GROUP ON WHATSAPP CALLED HIDDENSIMPLICITIES. AND I HAVE LOTS OF CHRISTAINS THERE WHO CONDEMN ME ABT MY OPINIONS CONCERNING THE MUSLIMS. I AM CHRISTAIN TOO. BUT AN ENLIGHTENED ONE, NOT UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF INDOCTRINATION. SO I BESEECH ANY ONE WHO CAN JOIN ME IN MY CAUSE OF SHOULD PLEASE CONTACT ME ON WHATSAPP@ 07051065548, SO THAT I CAN ADD U UP IN THE GROUP SO AS TO INCREASE OUR VOICE OUT THERE. BELOW IS AN ARTICLE I PREPARED YESTERDAY IN RESPONSE TO ONE OF MY PERSECUTORS. YOU CAN FIND MORE OF MY WRITINGS AT hiddensimplicities.

Thanks for your contribution.






WHY I AM STILL DOUBTING IF THE QURAN TOLD A LIE CONCERNING ISHMAEL BEING THE SACRIFICIAL SON AND NOT ISAAC.


By Dr. Odia A. Ogbebor




My mum recently told me that sometimes your helpers could take the image of those who fight and condemn you. The only prove of your faith in God( surrendering to his will ) is to never give up the fight. Never surrender to no one's will except God. There is a future your persecutors are helping you build. Even when you think that you are down, the spirit of the Most High is there to pick you up. Just keep moving.

I remember the first time i heard about Ishmael been the sacrificial son and not Isaac from an Islamic program on television. I smiled because it was a odd to me and yet funny. I did not accept it neither did i condemn them due to the understanding that everyone wants to claim a good story to themselves. So i never bothered to know why they thought so. Atleast, there was no need to dig deep into such knowledge until now that i am being questioned in defence of my cause in proving that the muslims are also God's children and are also saved. And so, they deserve no condemnation.

I went ahead to make my research this time to provide answers to my examiners. Here is the little i have found out
,..............,..
....................

Dear Dr,
1. The documentation in the Bible was several hundreds of years before that in the Quran. This should count for something when considering accuracy of information.
2. The Bible is more chronological than the Quran.
3. In the Bible narrative God specifically indicated that the son he recognized was the son between Abraham and Sarah.
4. This was because he was the 'miracle child' - a dead womb had to be made alive and a sexually dead man was made sexually alive again.
5. It should be clear that a child born out of such a situation can only be seen as UNIQUE and no other one can be considered so.
6. Like I've mentioned in an earlier post, Abraham could only pray to God for a child from Sarah because she was the barren one. There is no point in praying for what you already have.
7. So Abraham's prayer to God in Q37: 100 could not have been for a son through Hagar.
8. Sarah's comment in Q11:72 supports this position.
9. Sarah was clearly Abraham's legitimate wife.
10. There is more reference to Abraham, Sarah and Isaac than Abraham, Hagar & Ishmael even in the Quran.
11. In the Bible narrative we do not need to make ' deductions of any kind; it is clear who was to be sacrificed - Isaac.
12. An objective consideration of the Quran can only come up with the conclusion that Isaac was more in focus than Ishmael.

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aminusanti:
What's dis one saying?? Ma friend go study your diluted bible well after analyzing and concluding the confusion that's in it then you can consider studying islam well with the intention of real knowledge seeking not just copying any trash online and postin hear expecting people to reply you..I swear If I start by posting contradicting verses from your books u wont be able to even attempt one out of it but u guys are posting all sort of lame question about islam and even with answers provided to you, u are still blind...

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What I'm saying is what you've just done. 

Because Muslims are unable to explain the contradictions in the quran and are blinded to the degenerate life of mohammed they resort to looking for how to discredit the Bible. 

What the Muslim is actually saying is something like this: "If your Holy Book and Prophets are as corrupt as ours, then it's ok for ours to have the lapses you claim" 
You must agree that is warped thinking!

It is most likely that Muslims are willing to accept these SHORTCOMINGS because they do not place much demand on them and also because those lapses suit their lifestyles. 

"Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs" 
- Jonah 2:8

Majority of Muslims live in DENIAL. 
Even when they are CLEARLY shown how bankrupt mohammed was morally or even in integrity they choose to turn the other way. 
Show them the contradictions in the pieced-together Quran and the next thing they do is lamely attempt to discredit the Bible. 
They are either AFRAID of scrutinizing their "holy" book/books or they are ashamed that admitting to the weaknesses of their prophet and books will make them look foolish. 

It's truly amazing how millions live in self-deception and even in the face of clear evidence refuse to accept the truth. 

"Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs" 
- Jonah 2:8

truthman2012:
You hate the truth. I cite islamic sources to back up my threads, which islamists could not refute. If I have been citing the bible you would say you do not believe. Don't you believe the quran and hadiths too? May God deliver you.

With the descriptions your quran gives to Jesus: born without a father, working miracles, illustrous in the world and in heaven, favoured above Muhammad and not allowed to die, the Messiah, is it not better to worship Him than worship allahh, an arabian idol?

You're right on point.
Inability to defend their books makes them turn to pointing at what they think are flaws in the Bible.
It's like saying "if your own is wrong too, then it is OK for me to believe my own"
It's amazing that in the face of clear superiority of Jesus over Mohammed even in the Quran Muslims will still hold Mohammed in higher esteem. That is blindness of the highest order.

lexiconkabir:
give us your bible verse and the version you are using lets see.

The onus is on you, mr. Muslim. After all you are the one who is claiming your skewed interpretation of that portion. Don't try to shift the burden of proof. I will not buy it.

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lexiconkabir:
so the book is divine which means song of solomon8:1-3 is also divine right? weldone! aQdmiring your wife's body is no problem, i agree, but exposing it to the whole world is a big problem, except if you are saying that you malvisguy can expose how your wife body looks like or how her b'reast taste to the whole world. you started derailing the thread at first! you cant threaten me with the mods, believe me, if you go to the bathroom, i will be there, in your dreams, i will be there, even when you are watching tv, i will be there!

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It is only in depraved and twisted minds of Muslims like you that you can fabricate what you've done in your recent posts.

There is nothing in the Song of Solomon that suggests the words you've created to satisfy your lust for vindictiveness. Only warped minds can come up with such 'creations'.

Thankfully Allah has thought it fit to put Mohammed's depravities in the Quran but in order to hide from it you think that 'creating' your own and 'stamping' it on the Bible will make you 'feel' better.

BTW, you are not using any Bible translation but your own 'creation' to make the gullible think you're right.

As usual with you guys, instead of sticking to the thread you want to divert attention away to some other inconsequential issues.

lexiconkabir:
parisbookaddict a.k.a dumbasss! what is this one again? well help me analyze the porn a.k.a songs of solomon in your "holybook".

Lexiconkabir, admit that all these things are true about your 'prophet'. You have NOT countered the position stated by the OP that Mohammed had all these negative points against him.

Pointing out the negative issues about any other religion or Christianity for that matter, DOES NOT in any way justify what Mohammed was. That is a great mistake you are making. That is a wrong way to defend your 'prophet'; don't you think?

Apparently you KNOW that these things about Mohammed's sex addiction are true - Allah saw to it that they are there in the Quran - but somehow you're unwilling to ACCEPT the fact that your much revered 'prophet' had so much perversion and was still used by Allah as a 'messenger'.

At least try to defend your 'prophet' rather than attempt to derail the thread by diverting attention away from the FAILINGS of your 'prophet' to some other thing.

Unless you want us to believe that ethics, morals and the like are not in your dictionary or in Islam then FACE THE ISSUE on ground. That is if you can of course.