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 Christianity Etc › Re: How Mohammed Compiled The Quran. by plainbibletruth: 11:29pm On Sep 16, 2015 |
It is clear to Muslims that the Quran they have today came from what was recorded from the MEMORIES of early Muslims. It is very probable that Mohammed, who could not read or write according to some traditions, could not vet the manuscripts of his followers, relying entirely on the followers' integrity. Even if we are to accept that Mohammed had perfect memory of what was revealed to him, it will be an exaggeration to assume that the numerous persons who eventually wrote down the 'recitations' had the same flawless memories. Or can we say that they had inspiration from Allah as Mohammed? If so, can we not then say that they were as much 'messengers' and 'prophet's' of Allah as Mohammed? Are we really to believe that all those involved, from mohammed to the others, remembered what they received EXACTLY as it was revealed? Some of the stories in the Quran take up to 111 verses. The burden of proof is on Muslims who think otherwise to prove so. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: How Mohammed Compiled The Quran. by plainbibletruth: 1:34pm On Sep 16, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Any objective enquirer will discover at the end of the day that Mohammed NEVER really got any DIRECT revelation from his Allah. To the blind believer in Islam, the naive and uncritical, he may accept the authenticity of mohammed's claims without question. BUT to the discerning there is so much evidence in the Quran and other Islamic holy books and texts (hadiths, etc) that clearly show that Mohammed may have been prompted by a self-desire (at at a time encouraged by one of numerous wives) or by a demon to synchronize ALL the existing religions and faith he saw and knew existed during his time into one 'UNIVERSAL' religion. As a result he: - borrowed from as many sources as he could. - used as many men as he saw fit to engage (most times subtly and secretly). - employed whatever tactic (war, negotiation, syncretism, etc). In the creation of his 'recitations' (which by the way NEVER existed as a single unified volume during his lifetime) and in the propagation of his new creation - islam. Demzy you have never been able to prove the position of your religion but rather relish in the belief that 'if yours is wrong then it is ok for mine to be wrong' kind of thinking. What a warped way to think! 6 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth(op): 11:06pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
lexiconkabir:I did NOT read your comments with a biased mind. I think I'm being as objective as possible. Let's look at it again. Granted that chapter 55 of the Quran said: "The Most Gracious(Allah)!, He has TAUGHT (mankind) the Qur'an". But how do you now superimpose that on chapter 1 that clearly shows a statement made by a person occupying a lesser position to another occupying a superior position. Note again what it says: 1:5 It is You we worship and You we ask for help. 1:6 Guide us to the straight path It is the 'we' worshiping the 'you' and the 'we' asking the 'you' for help that is speaking here. The 'we' here is obviously lesser than the 'you'. If we take Allah (the 'you') as being the greater then the 'we' can only be a lower being - man or angel. It did not say: "Pray like this - ........" It's a straightforward and direct statement that can only mean the recording of what a person said in the first person figure of speech. If we need to borrow from chapter 55 to explain this, that chapter (55) did not even mention anything like "I thought you how to pray .........". It's only a general statement about allah providing the Quran in general. If Allah was speaking here it could have been something like "Worship me, ask me for help, ask me to guide you to the straight path". BUT that is clearly not what we find here. I know that past teachings have made the Muslim believe that ONLY the words of Allah are in the Quran but an objective look by any Muslim will make it clear that words of men and angels are ALSO in the book. This Al-Fatihah, the seven most oft repeated verses, stand out as the glaring example of that confirmation. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth(op): 7:43pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
[size=5pt] lexiconkabir:[/size] If Allah is teaching man what to pray or how to pray I believe the statement should read something like "Pray like this: ........" or "When you pray, say: ......" But that is not the case here in the sura 1:1-7 I'm referring to. It is the first person figure of speech used here - 'It is you we worship ........' Someone other than Allah is the one making this statement since there is nothing here to show that Allah is directing his subjects to pray saying those words. The "you" and the "we" are obviously two separate sets of persons, so as there is clearly no instruction here telling us it is a directive from allah on how to pray the only reasonable conclusion we can reach is that it is the words of man or angel addressing Allah. So we find here and elsewhere in the Quran words or statements made by men and angels. In other words, it is not ONLY Allah that was speaking in the whole of the Quran. Sometimes it was Allah's words, at other times it was the words of men or angels. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth(op): 8:01am On Sep 10, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Your reference talked about: Revelation all at Once or Gradually? It did not explain the verses 5&6 of chapter one. So, Can you explain verses 5&6 in line with your statement that angel Jibril transmitted it? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth(op): 10:33pm On Sep 09, 2015 |
Demmzy15:I'm surprised you've not attempted to explain the passage in question. Could it be because you know what the answer is? Can you explain verses 5&6 in line with your statement that angel Jibril transmitted it? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth(op): 4:19pm On Sep 09, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Thank you for admitting that it was angel Jibril speaking here. It is clear then that not all the words of the Quran are purely Allah's words. In other words, Allah is not the only one speaking throughout the Quran. So we see at the beginning of the Quran the words of an angel. In fact, there are more words of others - humans and angels - than DIRECT words of Allah. Let the Muslim take one long chapter of the Quran and find out for himself that not only Allah but humans and angels are reported as speaking in the Quran. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth(op): 4:15am On Sep 09, 2015 |
Demmzy15:So, who is speaking in verses 5 & 6? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth(op): 4:14am On Sep 09, 2015 |
Demmzy15:So, who is speaking in verses 5 & 6[b]?[/b] |
| Christianity Etc › Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth(op): 7:55pm On Sep 08, 2015 |
[size=14pt]Is Allah Praying To Allah Here?[/size] The average Muslim believes the Quran is a copy a book that exists in heaven and was given (recited) to Mohammed. If it was dictated to Mohammed then we would expect the figure of speech to show that. But in a number of instances that is not the case. Take the very first chapter of the Quran and what you find is this: 1:1 In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. 1:2 [All] praise is [due] to Allah , Lord of the worlds - 1:3 The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful, 1:4 Sovereign of the Day of Recompense. 1:5 It is You we worship and You we ask for help. 1:6 Guide us to the straight path - 1:7 The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray. It should be carefully noted that there is no mention of “Say” here as should have been the case in a dictation. Why is the first person figure of speech used here? So, if we are to believe that the Quran is entirely the word of Allah, Is Allah asking himself (Allah) to pray to Himself? Who is worshipping who? Who is asking for whose help? This muddled up position in the Quran is immediately resolved when we realise that it was none other than Mohammed or some other person who is asking his followers to pray to Allah. If so, then clearly man's words are included in the Quran and not only allah's. If we are to believe that man is not the one speaking here, are we then to say that it is Allah praying to Allah for help, for guidance and in worship? Many believe this was a time when Mohammed was just starting out preaching his own brand of ‘Hanifism’ (Islam) and he composed this verse (some say by imitating some Jewish liturgy) for his handful of followers. If any evidence is needed to prove that Mohammed had, indeed composed certain verses of the Qur’an this Al-Fatihah, the seven most oft repeated verses, stand out as the glaring example of that confirmation. "Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs" - Jonah 2:8 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Did Mohammed Write The Quran? by plainbibletruth(op): 11:56pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
It is quite interesting to note that although the 'angel' Gabriel is said to have brought the Quran verses to Mohammed, he (Mohammed) saw Gabriel only twice. Meanwhile, the 'revelations' were supposed to have taken place numerous times over several years! So, aside from these two physical encounters who was doing the 'revealing'? History shows us that several persons undoubtedly contributed to the composition of the Quran; it was not Mohammed alone who did! The Quran is not the creation of a single entity or a single person. There were several parties involved in the composition, scribing, amending, inserting and deleting the verses of the Quran. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Did Mohammed Write The Quran? by plainbibletruth(op): 7:02am On Sep 02, 2015 |
Demmzy15:It is clear who the loser is. It is clear who is unable to refute any facts presented. It is clear who wants to deceive the gullible. The truth stands, no matter what. Only those afraid that people will have their 'eyes' opened to the truth do all they can to suppress the truth. Can you honestly say there's anything wrong with any of the points I raised? 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Did Mohammed Write The Quran? by plainbibletruth(op): 11:13pm On Sep 01, 2015 |
Did Mohammed Write The Quran? Many Muslims believe that Quran they hold today is a replica of the original copy of the Quran which exists in heaven and was given to Mohammed from Allah. They also believe it is the one that has been in circulation since the time of the prophet. So while they think Christianity’s ‘original’ Bible is long lost they think the Quran is not. Was it Mohammed who PERSONALLY wrote what was ‘revealed’ to him? How did he compile the Quran or better still how was the Quran put together? The reality is as follows: 1. The Quran was originally verbal recitation. 2. These recitals were then written down by different people in various materials as much as they could recall from memory. 3. Decades after the death of Mohammed, Zaid ibn Thabith was saddled with the task of collecting and confirming which writings were genuine and then binding them into a single volume to become one book. 4. Even after this compilation some devotees of Mohammed remembered some areas that were part of the recitals but the Islamic leaders did not want to add anything else so as to project the “sacredness” of the book. 5. Mohammed therefore did not directly write anything. No historical record shows him as penning down the Quran. Muslims generally agree that Mohammed was not learned. 6. So can we be sure that those who wrote from memory wrote the right things? Did they write down exactly what they heard? Various texts emerged from the many writers leading to different sects. As they thought this situation could weaken the religion, powerful leaders of Islam decided to have only one rendition. When the leaders came out with the one version, they looked for, collected and destroyed as many variants as they could find. They then pronounced their assembled version the authentic Quran. Muslim scholars state the earliest copy of the Quran was written no earlier than 150 years after Mohammed died. Even after this “authorized’ version came out many objections came up, including from Mohammed’s widow, to the effect that portions of known recitations by Mohammed when he was alive were missing from this new compilation. Today there are still conflicting manuscripts of the Quran with textual variations: The text of the Quran in 37:103 reads "they had both submitted their wills (became Muslims)" while the Arabic text of the Tashkent MSS gives the exact opposite meaning, "they did not submitted their wills" (they did NOT become Muslims.) Can we be sure then that there aren’t several other missing portions that were not eventually included in this ‘Authorized’ version? Mohammed was even initially uncertain about the ‘visions’ that became part of the ‘revelations’ documented in the Quran. He did not know what to make of them; whether divine or demonic. He admitted this to his wife. It was his wife, Kadija that encouraged him to believe they were from God. The implications of these can be very far reaching. It was ONLY Mohammed that was credited with DIRECTLY receiving the ‘revelations’ from Allah and not any of these men who eventually wrote down from their MEMORY Mohammed’s recitation! So can we credit what these men wrote as “divinely” inspired? The claim of the Quran being the direct words of Allah is also questionable as we find portion quoting angels talking. In Sura 19: 64 we read: "And we [angels] descend not except by the order of your Lord. To Him belongs that before us and that behind us and what is in between. And never is your Lord forgetful – The ‘we’ must refer to a number of angels talking here. So we find more of the words of angels and men in the Quran than those credited to Allah. All these shortcomings came about because in the course of compilation, the Quran suffered the defect of becoming a second-hand or third-hand information with the attendant result of such compilation – inaccuracies, misquotes and outright errors. So much for the claim of “divine origin” of the Quran. That is the history of the Quran. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Mohammad Prophecy In The Bible by plainbibletruth: 2:51pm On Aug 23, 2015 |
[size=5pt] Khalil02:[/size] First, it is key to note that the verse in question was God's response to Israel. So it is NOT a generalized statement. Second, it was a specific response to what Israel said. Let's see what that verse is saying: "I will raise up for them... ... " Who is the them here? In verse 15 Moses was addressing the Israelites. There he has specifically said:"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers-it is to him you shall listen- So, in verse 18 Moses was now stating the same thing in God's own words. This gives clarity to the fact that the context for 'brethren' is from amongst moses' fellow Israelites. Not any other group of people, who were not given the law, and were not part of the group Moses was addressing. Moses meant then that the prophet would come out of the 12 tribes of Israel. Earlier God has specifically shown those excluded from the reference "brothers". In Deut 17:15 a very strong indication is given as to who "brothers" means in the verses in chapter 18: "you may indeed set a king over you whom the LORD your God will choose. One from among your brothers you shall set as king over you. You may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother.". It is clear here that NO FOREIGNER is included in the "brothers". A careful look in the Bible shows that not one reference to other group of people and not even the other sons of Abraham, (apart from Isaac's lineage) or their descendants is referred to as 'brothers' to the Israelites. On the issue of how 'similarities' can be used to show sameness it should noted that similarities and differences exists between all men. Moses and some other prophets had parents, children, were accepted by their people, etc, etc. Since several prophets before Mohammed matched these, the onus is on Muslims who claim it is Mohammed this is talking about to show us clearly how. What is critical therefore is to identify KEY attributes that the future prophet would have to possess to be "like Moses". The Deuteronomy 34 quoted by the OP actually gives an indication of some of these KEY attributes in identifying the future prophet. Deuteronomy 34: 10-12 10 And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, 11 none like him for all the signs and the wonders that the LORD sent him to do in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, 12 and for all the mighty power and all the great deeds of terror that Moses did in the sight of all Israel. This portion of the Bible is NOT saying that "Infact no prophet has come from Israel ever since Moses died". What it is saying is that NO prophet LIKE Moses had arisen in Israel up till then. 3 KEY Attributes 1) this future prophet will speak the words that God puts in his mouth. 2)this future prophet would have face to face encounter with God. 3)this future prophet is to perform miracles, signs, and wonders. In all these three key areas only Jesus met the criteria set here. Mohammed failed. - God did not put words in mohammed's mouth; it was an angel supposedly that gave him his messages. - Mohammed had no face to face encounter with God. - Mohammed, in the Quran, performed NO miracle. Therefore Mohammed CANNOT be the prophet Moses talked about. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by plainbibletruth: 8:28pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
1 Like 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by plainbibletruth: 6:43pm On Aug 21, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Your interpretation is actually an attempt to make the text mean a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thing than what is clearly stated. You same guys argue against others who use a translation of the Quran, pointing out where parenthesis is used it should be discarded. Yet you pick a source that is COMPLETELY outside the same Quran and you want everybody to accept it as "authentic" interpretation of the Quran. Amazing! If you were honest you would have CLEARLY started by letting your readers KNOW that even within Muslim circles there are DIVERGENT OPINIONS. You may then go on to show how you think your position is right. But you did not. This goes to show the extent you go to deceive readers. Demmzy, stop your deceit! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Quran 2:191- ‘and Kill Them Wherever You Find Them…’ Explained by plainbibletruth: 7:36am On Aug 21, 2015 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by plainbibletruth: 7:28am On Aug 21, 2015 |
[size=5pt] Demmzy15:[/size] 1. You guys have VERY CONVENIENTLY left out the FACT that there are Muslim writers who agree that "Fight those who do not believe" simply means "Fight those who do not believe." and nothing else. 2. So who is right - the Muslim sources quoted by you guys or the classical Muslim commentators who hold opposing views? 3. Why did you hide this fact? 4. Why do you want people to accept your DECEIT knowing in your conscience (hope it's still working well?) that you are being economical with the truth? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by plainbibletruth: 11:14pm On Aug 20, 2015 |
I was expecting a clear point-by-point rebuttal of my post but what I see is: - 'we know why these verses were revealed'. (So are we to understand that the 'why' of the verses is not quite in the verses but elsewhere? Possibly in the heads of those like 'lieman2013?) - 'nonsensical'. (This was even when it was merely a quote from the earlier post that I made; not my own statement) - 'His prophet understood him .....' (Is this suggesting that as long as the prophet understood it doesn't matter if he cannot plainly state it to his followers?) - 'Must everything be about inspiration?' (Can we see that clearly these guys either don't know anything about the divine or just care less - just about any source to justify any position they want to hold is ok to grab hold of). - 'Everything is clearly explained, ...' (If it's so CLEARLY explained it should be VERY EASY to simply point them out, shouldn't it?). - 'You're the gullible one here, you can't read and that's a great problem' (This is supposed to be addressed to someone debunking their statements. Gullible about what exactly? About the issue in question or something totally unrelated to the discussion at hand) In all these, what is clear is that these guys are operating on a twisted set of logic. A logic that makes them run to ANY SOURCE to support whatever they want ANY part of the Quran to say at ANY point in time. In the case in question, what our Muslim guys have VERY CONVENIENTLY failed to point out is that there are Muslim writers who agree that "Fight those who do not believe" means "Fight those who do not believe." and nothing else. So who is right - the Muslim sources quoted by these guys or the classical Muslim commentators who hold opposing views? Why did they hide this fact? Why do they want people to accept their DECEIT knowing that they are being economical with the truth? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by plainbibletruth: 12:27am On Aug 20, 2015 |
[size=5pt] Demmzy15:[/size]  . |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Examining Quran 9:29 – Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? by plainbibletruth: 11:39pm On Aug 19, 2015 |
It's amazing how it takes so much stories from OUTSIDE the Quran to explain just a simple portion of the Quran! It shows the extent to which some of these Muslims guys will go to try and give any meaning to any portion of the Quran. truthman2013 (or is it lieman2013) would want us to believe that the verse in question "was sent down by God to Prophet Muhammad (p) to fight against the Byzantine (Roman) empire, who mobilised troops in order to attack the Muslims." And to justify this truthman2013 (lieman2013?) resorts to: - so-called 'authentic early Islamic sources' - other writings that align somewhat with his aim; interpreting that portion of the Quran the way he wants. Even when the references had a lot of suppositions the 'lieman' would want us to accept them as truth. Relevant issues: 1. Now, if all that truthman2013 (lieman 2013?) claims were so, why didn't Allah simply say so? 2. Why did it have to take SUBSEQUENT writings to explain what Allah was saying in that portion of the Quran? 3. Were these writers 'inspired' in addition to Mohammed or can we also regard them as 'prophets' sent by Allah to 'fill up' what Mohammed didn't include in the Quran? 4. If like truthman2013 says: "Quran 9:29 was a war of self-defence." why did the Quran not simply say "when they fight you, fight back", even if specific names were not mentioned? After all, self-defense means an act of defending oneself. BUT what does the verse say? Let's see it again: “ Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth .........." It says "Fight those who do not believe..." It did not say: "Fight back (in self-defense) those who attack (in the sense of initiating a fight against) you. It did not say: "Fight those who are about to invade you or Fight those who are planning an attack against you" There's no inkling of self-defense here in this verse; none! So all can see that truthman2013 is actually trying to play a smart one on as many as may be gullible. He is trying to sell us a lie. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Where Did Mohammed’s Stories Come From? by plainbibletruth(op): 12:40am On Aug 19, 2015 |
Demmzy15:You quote from unsubstantiated sources and then claim you've refuted a thing. Is that how it works? According to www.sacred-text.com the Gnostics, a sect in the second century (did you get that? - 2nd century) already had it. There were different mentions of it about the same time period. So, is the source you quoted talking about the original (initial) writing or translations? This is crucial! In reality the critical issue is that of the way the Quran came about. The undisputed FACT that there was no single document as a compilation of all the revelations of Mohammed as at his death is a major blow to ANY claim that the Quran we have today was the unadulterated collection of the sayings of Mohammed. Besides, who was 'inspired'? Was it Mohammed or those who wrote down his recitations? This is also very KEY because here we are talking about who gave the message (the 'revelations') to the people in the form in which it is today. Because it is ONLY through this current form that anyone in the successive generations can come to get the message. So, did 'inspiration' reside only in Mohammed as he gave his recitations or did it extend to those who eventually penned down - mostly from memory - mohammed's recitations? At the end of the day you have refuted nothing! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Another Error Of Quran Or Muhammed by plainbibletruth: 8:54am On Aug 18, 2015 |
He who has ears to hear, let him hear. Matthew 11:15 1. It's obvious to see those who set out to be deceptive on these threads. 2. They may set out as wolves in sheep clothing; appearing at first to be 'innocent' discussant then turning out later to become vicious. 3. It is clear from the Quran that Abraham asked for a son. It is also clear that Sarah was involved. It is clear that the Quran states that: "we gave him.......Isaac" and "we blessed him and Isaac" 4. If Abraham and Sarah are involved who is their son? Obviously Isaac. 5. The ONLY son that Abraham had with his CHOICE wife Sarah is Isaac. Even in the Quran Abraham's relationship with Sarah is the one projected; not any other least of all between him and Hagar. 6. There is emphasis in the Quran as to the good news of the birth of Isaac - AND WE GAVE HER THE GOOD NEWS OF ISAAC (Q.11:71). No such emphasis is placed on the birth of Ishmael. 7. It should be obvious that since Sarah (and not Hagar) was the one barren, Abraham’s prayer to God to grant him a righteous son (Q.37:100) could not have been for a son through Hagar. Sarah's comment in Q.11:72 buttresses this. 8. The son born through God's promise - the good news- and miraculous intervention was therefore Isaac. The Covenant was to be perpetuated through him. 9. So, a careful reflection on relevant portions of the Quran points to Isaac and not Ishmael. Any reference to any other source outside the Quran to refute this is contradiction of the Quran's claim. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. Matthew 11:15 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Another Error Of Quran Or Muhammed by plainbibletruth: 8:16am On Aug 17, 2015 |
Demmzy15:So what have you said here? 1. Was Abraham promised Isaac ? 2. Was Isaac's conception miraculous by divine intervention? 3. Do these make the circumstances of his birth 'ordinary' or 'supernatural'? 4. If God were to ask Abraham to sacrifice a son which would touch him more - the son of promise or any of his other many sons? If you're unable to answer you may leave it to others to do. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Another Error Of Quran Or Muhammed by plainbibletruth: 8:40am On Aug 15, 2015 |
Here's a portion from: https://www.nairaland.com/2410291/which-son-did-god-ask#35225333 In Sura 11: 69-73 we are specifically told the name of the son that Abraham was to get in his old age – Isaac. It was this promised son that Abraham was later tested with to be sacrificed. So when Abraham made the statement in Sura 37: 101-109 it was the ‘righteous son’ that God promised him as per Sura 11: 69-73 – Isaac – that was to be sacrificed. Sura 11:69-73 "And certainly did Our messengers come to Abraham with good tidings; they said, "Peace." He said, "Peace," and did not delay in bringing [them] a roasted calf. But when he saw their hands not reaching for it, he distrusted them and felt from them apprehension. They said, "Fear not. We have been sent to the people of Lot." And his Wife was standing, and she smiled. Then We gave her good tidings of Isaac and after Isaac, Jacob. She said, "Woe to me! Shall I give birth while I am an old woman and this, my husband, is an old man? Indeed, this is an amazing thing!" They said, "Are you amazed at the decree of Allah ? May the mercy of Allah and His blessings be upon you, people of the house. Indeed, He is Praiseworthy and Honorable." For some strange inexplicable reasons, perhaps to seek to maintain their closeness to Abraham, many Arab Muslim leaders chose to replace Isaac with their ancestor Ishmael even though his name was never mentioned in relation to being the promised son. They have subsequently led the entire Muslim world to believe that it was Ishmael that was both the promised son and the one to be sacrificed when it was actually Isaac. Isaac was conceived MIRACULOUSLY to Sarah who had well passed her child bearing age and a very aged Abraham. The Quran agrees with this. Ishmael on the other hand was conceived NORMALLY without any miraculous intervention. If any of these conceptions is to be seen as UNIQUE obviously the common sense reasoning will pick that of Isaac, not Ishmael. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Pure Description Of Islam by plainbibletruth: 9:39pm On Aug 11, 2015 |
[quote author=Demmzy15 post=36852011][/quote]  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Pure Description Of Islam by plainbibletruth: 5:09pm On Aug 11, 2015 |
Demmzy15:It's you who strikethrough posts that is displaying emotion. Instead of responding you're reacting with your emotions. Are you 'consulting' with 'experts' before you answer my post that you referred to? Go ahead! Your tactics are clear to any observant person. One is this: whenever you have no answer to a post you strike-trough and then make irrelevant comment or none at all. Why don't you, for now, answer the post here instead of talking about some other post? Maybe it's because you know the facts but you're unwilling to admit the truth. "Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs" - Jonah 2:8 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Pure Description Of Islam by plainbibletruth: 8:13am On Aug 11, 2015 |
Demzy is showing the extent Muslims go to try to discredit the Bible and its stories and people in order to justify islam's immorality and rot. Making up stories did not start from Demzy. It started from the prophet they worship - Mohammed. Most stories in the Quran were taken from sources other than their true origin. See: https://www.nairaland.com/2489382/where-did-mohammeds-stories-come We point to islam's holy books to show the decadent nature of his religion but Demzy can only run to any source - true or false - to satisfy himself that if others have been said to have done it then it must be ok. How demmzy wants to prove that marriage to teenagers JUSTIFIES Mohammed's abuse (even in today's standards) of a 6 - 9 year-old beats the imagination. It shows the extent to which his warped mind can go. That's all he's trying to do! Here is a role model of Islam behaving less than a common man and demmzy is clapping for him. Even when he was shown that: "Implication is that apocrypha are not part of the Bible and were a mixture of truth culled from the latter and traditions, the evidence of which were non-existent!" he still CHOOSES which item he wants to present as true and which ones to disregard. It doesn't occur to him that the claim RIGHT THERE is that evidence for the stories are NON-EXISTENT! As long as he diverts attention AWAY from his prophet's abnormal sexual lifestyle he's fulfilling 'his master's will'. He too can then engage in same and feel no qualms about. After all if his PROPHET DID IT why can't he. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Pure Description Of Islam by plainbibletruth: 2:28pm On Aug 10, 2015 |
Demmzy15: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Pure Description Of Islam by plainbibletruth: 12:22pm On Aug 10, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Your today's Quran was NOT written by Mohammed. Remember, he was even confused about the source of his 'revelations'? Islamic leader after Mohammed got together bits and pieces of purported 'sayings' of Mohammed, destroyed the ones that did not align with positions and put the rest together. So you see no theme, no order, no logic. BUT thank God they forgot to EDIT out some of these portions that are now showing Islam for what it truly is. It will be dubious of you to want to use a writing Christians don't hold as their holy book to prove your point here. The others used your holy books to show the corruptness of your 'prophet'. You have not been able to prove your claim from their holy book. Instead, like a parrot, you're still pitiably asking the same question over and over. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Pure Description Of Islam by plainbibletruth: 11:42am On Aug 10, 2015 |
Demmzy15:See the RIDICULOUS extent you Muslims will go to want to justify mohammed's sexual depravity. You pick from spurious writings - perhaps those engineered by the driver of Islam - and you want to use them to justify islam's PERVERSION. What a pity! We are talking about your FOREMOST, if not only, Prophet. And you FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE to use an ordinary man to equate him in order to justify his misdeeds. That is the extent to which you guys have descended. The Quran and Hadith have shown your chief prophet's degeneracy. But you on the other hand can't point to anywhere in the Bible to substantiate your CONCOCTED claims. The issues are clear: - The Muslim holy books clearly show the debasement of it's foremost prophet. - There is nowhere in the Bible where you can prove your FABRICATED lies about Joseph and Mary. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Another Error Of Quran Or Muhammed by plainbibletruth: 8:00am On Aug 10, 2015*. Modified: 10:51am On Aug 10, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Why not simply provide a link to where this issue was dealt with. You keep posting up and down and you're here advising another person to ignore people. Why don't you stop responding yourself and educate your brain from others' posts. 2 Likes |
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