₦airaland Forum

Is Suffering Necessary For Salvation?


No. Absolutely NOT!
It's just a way to make people living in opulence and luxury, and enjoy sadistically with the suffering of others.
The priests, the Pope, made ​​fast in the Vatican?
They deliver the gold in the Vatican to the poor?
You ever saw a priest deprived of a piece of bread to give to the poor?
If you want to marry, baptize a child, or celebrate a Mass for deceased and go to church: the priest does for free?
Perhaps a Pastor is willing to forgive the payment of tithes to someone without money?
"You do as I say, not as I do"
It is the advocacy of "unhappiness"

By God!
After I read about this, I think of those who regard the traditional African religion somewhat dated and silly ,
This is a terrible thing ,
He does not deserve comments ,

crossman9:
does anyone know what an anti christ is please tell me so i can get there point of veiw

You ask. I will give my opinion respectfully.
According to some fans, an anti christ (Satan, as it is called) is a person who does not have the same belief that they, who do not accept what they accept it, who are not fans and claim that the only truth is the them ,
Anyone who does not pay tithe to the pastor, and who do not interpret the Bible as they interpret order is an anti christ.
In a word , they are the only good and intelligent, and everyone else is Satan, demons or Antri Christs ,
In my opinion, is a reasoning fanatic, totalitarian, which is leading to some religions are more rejected every day by people of sound mind.
You asked and I answered.
My respects.

Ndipe:
Why do I choose to worship Jesus Christ?

He died for my sins and rose again for my justification. Today, if I need anything, I have to pray in faith and He will intercede on my behalf. My forefather's relgion would demand an arm and a leg to fulfill rites while the gift of Jesus Christ is FREE.

Dont be brainwashed, Jesus Christ is the Only Way to God.

Dear Sir:
I have not offended his God nor his belief.
You have every right in the world to have their beliefs, as I, and everyone else.
My religion taught me to be respectful of others not to offend,not be fanatical ,
I assume that their religion has really helped you improve your life and make you a better person.
You meditate ,

emöfine; PAGAN 9JA
I appreciate and respect very much to both.
Receive a warm hug from your friend.

PAGAN 9JA:
[size=16pt]PRAISE BE TO LORD SHANGO!!!!!!!![/size]

https://orinayo.com/sitebuilder/images/Praise_to_Shango-568x753.jpg

E kaabo kabeyesi ilé!
S' oro s´oro onigodo!

this is correct?

Nothing is coincidence.
There is fear , fear of sin, fear of hell, fear of the devil, fear the wrath of God ,
Then it creates dependency to the pastor, who claims to be "the one who can guide them."
Those fears and this dependence generate large economic gains for many pastors ,
The result is:
Pastors richer every day and every day more people dependent and impoverished.
Bad deal for some, a good deal for others.

I agree totally with friends Pastor Kun & Goshen360.
They have been very clear!
The biblical tithes were made with oils, animals, fruits etc , all that was burned in the holocaust to God. I do not think the shepherds burn the money to make offerings to God! they prefer to spend their own advantage.
Many pastors use such passages, to deform them and use them for personal profit, to enrich themselves with the sacrifice of others.
Do not deprive you of giving bread to his children to obey lies of a pastor.
Jesus and his disciples never charged or demanded tithe offerings.

Chuksxp:
That's called self-control. A fruit of the Spirit. With God's help you can discipline yourself not to give in to drunkeness. Saying we shouldn't drink at all because we might give in to drunkeness is like saying we shouldn't eat because we might give in to gluttony.

Exactly!
Your answer is very clear.
I have already explained that Luke said that Jesus drank wine and ate meat.
That is conclusive. If Jesus himself drank , we can not be more royalist than the king ,
I worry that some people exposed passages without detailed knowledge of their total content, and I worry a tendency to repression in all areas of life, excessive fear of sin when it is not ,
Do as Jesus, my friend , drink, eat and be happy.
My compliments!

Hola querida amiga!

The fate of the slaves in America was not casual. In mining regions, or rice or cotton plantations, the slaves sought a strong physical condition. For domestic slaves were sought shorter or complexion.
Also, in places where there were large concentrations of slaves (plantations, mines, etc, ) Is trying to mix different ethnic groups, where possible rivals to avoid uprisings.
Brazil has always had a large territory, so that the requirements were varied.
The latest wave of arrivals to South America slaves were precisely Yorubas. l recently proclaimed the prohibition of slavery, so that the Yoruba traditions still kept fresh (much more than Angola, for example).
In Uruguay the needs of the dominant Spanish was very different. Had not large plantations of coffee or cocoa or cotton, so a cattle farm was no more than four or five slaves, and when his dealings with his boss, but generally was quite human. In Uruguay, the Yoruba presence was low, compared to Angola, for the reasons explained above functional.

I have the translation to Spanish, which I guess is correct (I have understood that the Yoruba language is very descriptive, and it is difficult to translate directly some things) but the Yoruba translation into Spanish, then English may have a catastrophic result . Overall it is a worship of Osun, is called owner of River Osun, owner of the sweet waters, and so on. etc.

On translation, like to see some other forum friend help us and give us views about writing in Yoruba.
Someone willing to collaborate?

Candomble is actually a rhythm, a musical style only by various kinds of drums. There are styles that define ethnic groups who started and are preserved today. Can you see anything on the "calls" (for an example) in this link, but really nothing is the same to him personally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCmL-X9e25M



I send an affectionate salludo dear friend!
Alaafia!

Infomizer:
IMHO, charitable organizations deserve my tithe and first fruits more than any religious institution. I've stopped paying my tithes to churches for years now and I even feel more financially accomplished (because I've made smart financial moves). I'm sure that what they preach in church is not applicable to me, In their own sense, I'm robbing God. If that is it, I don't mind robbing God to give to the less-privileged. Let that God come and punish me for not obeying his servants,

So far, I've donated only to
Little Saint's Orphanage:
Skye Bank: Adeola Odeku Branch: 1331770005200
Zenith Bank: Ajose Adeogun Branch: 6010173794

You can ask for their NUBAN number at the counter.


Disclaimer:I am not in anyway affiliated to them. I'm just a fella with some concern for the orphans. I hope to spread this little love to others soon.

Dear friend.
I share your opinion.
Not the same to give the money directly to a pastor or a priest who end up buying planes with the money or spend it on drugs to give the money directly to work.
The thread is just what you mean.
While you care for good social work, other people try to change Bible versions to simply promote economically to the priest.
Regards

wordtalk:
I don't see you quoting Malachi yourself, let alone reading it. I'm sorry if my rejoinders were (mis)read as causing grief - that was never intended on m part. I just thought that the record be set straight and not left confused in the manner you put it.

You are not argued, and when you do it wrongly cites passages.
To quote the Bible is read first.
I said "indefensible."
You do not write much , think a little more.
Receive my greetings

wordtalk:
I entered this thread expecting to see sob tales as above. You just fulfilled my suspicion. If you do have anything besides the incoherence you spout out, please share. If not, hiding behind the usual anti-tithers' jingoism is only risible.

It would be important that if you quote Malachi, you should read it sometime ,
I do not river such situations, to cause me grief.

Pastor Kun:
@wordtalk
You have come with your biblical gymnastics again is there anything in scriptures to suggest that Abraham's tithe was setting an example for believers to follow. Even at that the man made version of tithes preached in churches today bears little resemblance to Abraham's tithe or the levitical one. I would also use this opportunity to remind you for the upteenth time that those who argue against tithing as it is preached today are merely arguing a false doctrine that is being used to rip off believers today cause they are being fraudulently mis-led into believing it is a christian requirement. If most preachers were honest enough to preach the truth about mandatory tithing's irrelevance to christians and only preach it as optional, trust me nobody would be up in arms against it.

I totally agree with you.
Worst of the biblical gymnastics, is that even this no well-acted.
It is impossible to defend the indefensible.

wordtalk:
I am one of those Christians who give through tithes (and other types or expressions of giving), so please don't be surprised.

Malachi 3:10 does not teach that tithing was a 'punishment for stealing their offerings', as you put it. It is indeed surprising that you misread that verse. Whose offerings were stolen - 'their offerings' or God's offerings? Malachi 3:8 shows it was God's offerings that the WHOLE NATION had stolen -

            "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me."

It does not say 'ye have robbed us', so where did you get the so-called 'punishment for stealing their offerings'?

That again, is a huge misreading of the text. If tithing was a punishment for thieves, would you find me the text to show it was the same in Abraham's case? Was Abraham a thief and only gave tithes to bear his 'punishment'?

You're dead wrong. The only reasons I know why people argue that BIBLICAL tithes were "only" food and not money, jewelry, etc. is because -

1. They have never studied their Bibles carefully but play fast and loose with eisegesis

2. They do not understand what they mean by "Biblical tithes"

3. They look for flimsy excuses to exclude Abraham's tithes from the Bible even though they were recognized in BOTH the OT and NT (which is why you hear half-baked theologians argue that Abraham's tithes are 'pagan' tithes).

On the contrary, study the Bible carefully and you will find indeed that titthes included  MONEY and JEWELRY - at least, in Abraham's case.

In Malachi 3:10 God punishes the priests for stealing.
In fact, tithing is set by God to the Levites.
No two interpretations.
The tithes were specifically in oils, grains etc. NEVER cash.
The tithes were burned as a holocaust ,  imagine you burning the money to God!
Dear Sir, tithing is a currency current invention
GOD PLEASE do not need money!
Come back to read Malachi, please ,
Abraham's case is special, it can only be regarded as something special situation of the person who cheated on his wife with her ​​maid Sara without God considered a failure.
3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. And ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for you, the whole nation have robbed me.
3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing until it overflows.
3:11 I will rebuke the devourer for you, and not destroy the fruits of the earth, and your vine in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.
Not stolen?
They were not punished?
Who interprets the Bible wrong?
My respects

There are thousands of examples in the Old Testament.
But let us the present ,
We seek simple examples ,
In Catholic churches light candles , flowers are placed depositing money , ,
When we speak of offerings not only talking animal or cereal ,
I see constantly mentioned the Bible, but there are no details that are before the eyes of any of us ,
My respect for all.

emöfine:
Nice name
So what does Ptolomeus mean?

That’s good. You must be well travelled.
Do you understand Italian?

No, I don’t live in Nigeria. I live in London.

. . .and you have mine.

Which Orisá’s are known in South America? I heard Sango was the most popular one.
Were any of your ancestors African? Did your parents practise Batuque and pass the belief down to you? Or was you independently inspired to adopt this belief?

Candomblé was derived from Angolan practises? I thought there were some Yoruba influences as well.
But I've heard that capoeira in Brazil originated from Angola.

Ba wo ni? That’s all the Yoruba I know. Can you write a Yoruba song here please, I would like to see

Music is a good guide when one wants to know more about particular cultures and countries. Some South American music was influenced by Africans and some African music has been influenced by South Americans – sweet cultural exchange.
Miriam Makeba, she was good. I could recommend you some African musicians if you like.
But I would also like to know more about South America.

Largely we are culturally sub-conscious.
These imported faiths have inhibited so much on our culture that our indigenous practises have become foreign to us.
I don’t practise any African religions myself but I have an appreciation for them.

How do you hope to make contact? via mail?

Thank you. I extend the same warm offering of friendship towards you.

Hello dear friend.
The Ptolomeus Nick is just an invention unrelated to me.

I have traveled a lot, true. I understand some Italian but not speak it well. You've noticed that my English is very bad.

Depending on the service may be said that in America are known Orisá Esu, Ogun, Iyamesán, Sango, Ode (Ossossi), Oba, Ossayin, Sonponno (Omolu), Ibeije, Osun, Iemojá, Nana Mburukú, Osanguiyán, Osalufá, Obatala, Osumaré , among others ,

Capoeira is not a religion but a dance with wrestling moves, created by slaves.
Candomblé in Brazil has different variants grouped under the same name.
There Keto Candomble (Yoruba, Orisa) and Candomble de Angola (Nkisse). Both are different.

You put me in a rush to my , I can not write Yoruba, and possibly if I do I will be criticized, but let's see , at least a little , something about the Orisa Osun ,
Tàlà dé omi o tàlà yèyé màràjó
Omi tàlà dé omi tàlà dé rì lànà
Ìyá’ dò jí yèyé mi bàbà dé o ru kí lànà
Òsun tàlà dé
Yé bámi Òsun bi olomi, yé bámi Òsun bi olomi, yèyé pòndá e’ lú nfá ta ga rè lá yé bámi Òsun bi olomi
O yèyé Òsun pe rere mã
O - Ogun pe ní’ léwà
Omi ní wá rá wàrawàra omi ní wá rá
Òsun ìpòndá pàra wè’ lé wò
Olomi l’Òsun
Ato’níre olomi l’Òsun ato’níre

I guess after this corresponds that I excuse

In Uruguay there is a strong influence of African music. In fact, the CANDOMBE (created by slaves) is arguably the most autochthonous country music, possibly even more than the tango. In times of slavery, to a certain time of year, every ethnic group began playing drums early in the morning, announcing public one another, for the night each group expressing its typical touch and dances. This event is known as "llamadas" (calls) and is a tradition that continues today.

I would like to have direct contact with you, but do not know how to send a PM on the forum.
I send you a friendly greeting and I am at your service ,

tiarabubu:
I often wonder, of all the ancient people, how the Jews were preserved, how the ancient prophets prophecies about them are coming to pass. I also think this shows the future concerning them and the world. While I have my country's problem to contend with, i cant help but be fascinated with the Jews; their tenacity, perseverance, intelligence and can do spirit. Above all their divine favour. I wish we can learn from some of their brilliance and tenacity.


Genesis 15:18  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

I understand that you are speaking of Abraham, the Jewish patriarch who cheated on his wife with the maid called Sarah ,

Excuse me, but if someone says that a people is not smart, we think there is segregation ,  What you are doing to the Jews so much praise is just the contrary segregation.
I do not think that Jews are more or less intelligent than anyone else.
On many occasions demonstrated his stubbornness and lack of respect for the rights of others ,
They are not more or less than anyone.
My respects.

Not at all.
Jesus not only drank alcohol, but when the alcohol was finished he appealed to a miracle for any.
Peter refers to Jesus as a man and drink a lot ,
Catholic priests drink wine in their ceremonies, many monks prepare various types of alcoholic beverages ,
The simple act of drinking alcohol is not sin , possibly drunk otherwise.
Dear friend:
The biblical God allowed polygamy deception in marriage (Abraham), drink, ordered the killing of all people of a town ,
And can anyone think that a god so drink a glass of wine can be a sin?

PA1982:
This 'falling' is a technique used by Chinese martial arts practitioners, too.
You can see it done on Youtube.
It has nothing to do per se with any particular religion or philosophy and eveything to do with working a crowd.

Exactly.
A fraud, to make it their livelihood

Mis respetuosos saludos, estimada amiga!
Y, que viva España Olé!

Sweatshirt:
Why is it that I get the feeling that people are acting when they fall?

Sometimes people act, in others, the atmosphere generated by the Pastor leads a state of hysteria , and the result is the fall , When the fall occurs, the pastor will say you had a demon inside and then the real show begins , the result will be that you (and several others) end up filling the pockets of the pastor.

goshen360:
Only those with demons fall in the bible days. Only demons makes people fall but Jesus would say, rise and walk. If there are any people who should fall, should it be the Holy Ghost, it should be the Apostles in Acts 2. Something is definitely wrong today and we need discernment to really know it. However, the word of God clearly teaches Jesus did not make any one fall and some people trying to catch from the back neither did the Apostles did. Read your bible and study in the word of God.

Mhhhhh see ,
If the person falls demon , if there is no devil does not fall ,
I wonder what the pastor does all this theater to put his hand on the head if the person has no devil?

I'm surprised that many Christians pay tithes.
I too am surprised that there are pastors (who presumably have read the Bible) that charge mandatory tithing.
Charging a mandatory tithing is a simple robbery.
In Malachi 3:10 God requires tithing to the Levitical priests only (not the entire world, not the rest of the people) as a punishment for stealing their offerings.
Thus we understand that tithing is a divine punishment for thieves.
Anyone who has stolen from God, let him pay.

Addition.
In cases in which the Bible refers to a tithe, we talk about oil, grains, animals, which were burned as a holocaust to the Jewish god.
Never gave a tithe in the form of money, jewelry, etc ,
The obligatoru payment of tithe is a mockery of the Bible, theft immoral people who want to live without working.
Are you so foolish as that?
My respect for all.

emöfine:
Hey Ptolomeus. So are you South American? Your name sounds Greek.
I guess you speak Spanish or even Portuguese. Hola amigo.

That makes both of us. Although my own method might be different.
Is that what lead you to this site?

Please tell me more about how you practise Batuque?

South America amazes me. In Brazil it’s Candomblé. Cuba - Santería. And of course in Uruguay it’s Batuque . I also heard parts of Venezuela practise this traditional religion. Recently I met a man from Trinidad and Tobago that is a practitioner of this Orisá belief.

It’s actually quite impressive how far reaching this African (Yoruba) belief has spread. It’s interesting - the Europeans came to Africa with Christianity and the Africans left with Ifa and other native beliefs. The people in these countries outside of Africa seem to be more faithful and appreciative of these practises than us Africans.
Yoruba appears to be popular in South America. Are there any other Arican groups that are well known in that region as well as their beliefs? . . .such as Angola or Congo?

Ptolomeus, can you speak a little bit of Yoruba? Do you listen to African music?


Oh yes, I would be delighted if you could be generous enough to share some information with me.

Dear friend:
Ptolomeus is just my nick , my name is Enrique.
My original language is Spanish, but I also speak French, Portuguese and Catalan.

I'm glad we both have an affinity for the subject. You live in Nigeria?
You can count on my full cooperation and information. I would like to have yours.

Write on Batuque take too much space, but at least I would like to explain something:. Broadly speaking, I can tell you that unlike the original cult, ceremonies for all Orisá are performed in the same Ile. This is because originally, the number of followers was low at each site and the worship was forbidden by the slave. Another difference is that not all African Orisá are known in America, if not all priests came Orisá.
Can you ask what you want.


Indeed, in America there are other cults of Angola, for example in Candomblé of Angola in Brazil.

I speak very little yorubá. Just know some greetings, some words, and ritual songs. I just I have a Yoruba-English dictionary of Abraham ,
Except ritual music in America there is very little coverage of African music. Some years ago, Miriam Makeba was very successful , But we know very little.

You say rightly. I have observed in the general forum that Africans do not have a full awareness of the great cultural heritage that have , that saddens me ,

I am keen to make contact with you, if you consider it appropriate.

I am at your service, and I express my greatest respect and friendship.

Pastor AIO:
Ptolomeus, sir, I find you very fascinating. Please tell me, are you a Nigerian living in south american or are you a south american that practices yoruba religions?

Dear friend Pastor AIO:
I am very impressed with their presentations.
Thank you for your very valuable input!
I was born in Uruguay, my great-grandmother was a slave.
In my country is highly valued African culture that slaves learned to treasure with great effort and suffering.
Indeed, practical worship of Orisá. In this country the cult is widespread.
This is an adaptation of the original African religion as repression, lack of some ritual materials and other circumstances forced to make these adaptations, which are not related to the syncretism as some people believe, but the liturgy.
For example, because of many people, it was impossible to make a single Orisá worship in every place, so every Ile grouped them in a large number of followers and making it all Orisá worship.
I'm at your service with any questions about this or any other topic.
I reiterate my deep admiration and friendship unconditionally.
Excuse me my bad English.
A very warm greeting!

Jonah-Fish:
The reason why religious violence would not cease is because if fanaticism. Simple question: "Should A Christian Be Moved By A Horoscope Prediction?" and somebody is discussing denominations, mentioning Catholics. I've just gone through Wikipedia on the Book of St. Cyprian and discovered that even the Catholic Church forbids its members fro reading it. You can check it out for yourself below:

The Great Book of Saint Cyprian
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

estimate:
St. Cyprian of Carthage (Thaschus Cyprianus) III century BC
Bishop and saint of the Catholic Church, besides Mage and Warlock ,
Since Wilkipedia been consulted, we should read the history of this "holy".
The Catholic Church forbids many things, but in this case canonized a magician and sorcerer.
I just did what I meant ,
My respects.

dave247:
Ptolomess!!! Are you a Catholic Christian or u just dey talk? Plz, speak of what you believe, catholics do not believe in "Horoscope"!!! It make you feel Bad when your is being decide by predictions. That stuff is Associated wit fortune tellers n d Bible kick against dat, so live ur life 2 honour God n believe his ur everything, No hard Feelins Man, Thanx Always!

That's your opinion and I respect it.
But I forgive you if I do not agree.

emöfine:
Thank you dear friend.

If you don't mind me asking, where are you from by the way?

Dear friend emöfine:
I live in Montevideo, Uruguay, South America.
I am a humble researcher of African traditions, particularly the Yoruba.
I also practice the cult of Orisá done here with the name "Batuque".
As you know, many reasons including the great persecution forced in America, in the various expressions, the cult of Orisá should be adapted in terms of some materials, as to some fundamentals, but its root is the same.
If you wish, with the greatest pleasure, I am at your service to give you the information you want.
I repeat my unconditional friendship and respect for you, and I am at your service.
A friendly greeting!

ghostofsparta:
@Ptolomeus
Polytheism, monotheism or any type of theism still remain as a concept of the white people, to fit ours into any of the theism spectrum is difficult but I strongly think IFA to some extent can be viewed in 'terms of structure' with Henotheism regarding the deities or 401 IRUNMOLES OR ORISHAS.

Dear friend.
Thank you very much for your kind and clear answer.
I also understand that Judaism (as well as religions pray) in its origins can be defined as henotheism, to then lead to changes in concepts.
My sincere thanks and my best wishes!

olyivy:
Book of St. Cyprian? In which Bible version?

Fool!!!

If only you can live your own life and quit peddling lies and also leave Catholics out of your shortcomings, the world will be a better place.

Dear Madam.
I regret that you did not read correctly. It ubeno think when you read something.
I did not say that the book of St. Cyprian is in the Bible ,
Please read, then give reasons, and then write.
Some people have the fastest hands the brain and that's not good.
I too am very sorry that you disqualify me ,
I do not answer such things, I put forward my point of view with respect and courtesy.
No one has to coincide with me, but I do not speak on the forum to offend anyone.
Peace be with you.

Rossikk:
GODSON 2009, I've read all the colonial mentality driven horse manure you've typed so far. Here's what I need to know. Are you able to justify these mass killings in the bible ordered by your imported ''God''?

And please throw away that colonial officer's book of ignorant smears given to you by your dad.

I share his opinion and that of dear friend Pastor AIO.
The problem is that there are people whose fanaticism prevents them from reasoning.
Godson has written extensively , quoted the Bible in several passages, but the same Bible says that "whoever has ears to hear, and who have eyes, see"
As we say in my city, "there are none so deaf as those who did not want to hear.
The general fanaticism deafness and blindness.
My best wishes to you.

I do not believe horoscope predictions are true.
But I do know that the vast majority of Catholics read the horoscope and resort to means of divination múltipes and many also resort to witchcraft ,
Anyone know what is the book of Saint Cyprian , ??

goshen360:
can i have some more please?

Yes.
According to the Bible, arrogance and pride are sins.
Is not it?

I would like to know that someone is addressing you.
I do not think google search is the best way to study the Bible.
I do not think that a Bible international translation is guarantee of anything.
I expressed that here, in the forum, there are people who cite biblical passages changing context and content.
Do not think anyone here eat with a spoon and I think me and expressed with absolute courtesy and respect.
My greetings