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Purist's Posts

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Christianity EtcVideo: Being Good Without God by Purist(op):
In the following 11-minute video, Alan Dershowitz talks about the irrelevance of stone age laws and the apparent double standards of modern-day Christians who only obey biblical laws selectively.

He talks about morality and the redundancy of religion in the aspect that people CAN be good without God. People CAN be moral and ACT morally without having on the back of their minds incentives such as divine rewards in the afterlife or the avoidance eternal damnation.

Finally, he totally destroys the much touted Pascal's wager, which quite honestly, has become hackneyed on this forum. Enjoy this well-articulated argument by the Harvard law professor.

[flash=450,350]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0bGFiKNMms[/flash]

"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion." - Arthur C. Clarke
Christianity EtcRe: Why Do People Disrespect GOD By Browsing During Church Service?!!!! by Purist(m): 4:26pm On May 19, 2012
Probably because they've heard it all. The pastor probably preaches the same thing week in, week out. There's nothing new to be preached. Maybe the bible needs to be updated. They need new stories. They're getting bored.
Christianity EtcRe: Discussion Between Professor And Student About God, Faith And Science. by Purist(m): 1:33am On May 18, 2012
PapaBrowne: How do you know that people from ancient times were buried with ancient artifacts?? Please tell me how you came to that conclusion, because you weren't there when they claimed that happened. So how come you know for sure that people were buried with ancient artifacts? For all I care they could just be rock formations that looked like skeletons and it could all just be coincidental. I'm surprised you believed that- something you never sensed!!

Carbon Dating? You believe that stuff?? Seriously??
Definition
Radiocarbon dating (sometimes simply known as carbon dating) is a radiometric dating method that uses the naturally occurring radioisotope carbon-14 (14C) to estimate the age of carbon-bearing materials up to about 58,000 to 62,000 years.

What the heck is radioisotope. Whats that definition up there?? Someone just came up with something from his head and named it Radioisotope, a group of people [b]believed [/b]him and today are using what they [b]believe [/b]to ascertain the age of materials?? No exact measure to test the authenticity since nobody was present thousands of years ago to verify for us if carbon dating is accurate?? And yet without that full proof accuracy, you [b]believe [/b]in carbon dating??

Can you explain how different are you from all them Christians who go around [b]believing [/b]stuff they have no proof or sensory based evidence about?
https://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/808andy/803205-holy_facepalm_super.jpg
Christianity EtcRe: Discussion Between Professor And Student About God, Faith And Science. by Purist(m): 1:23am On May 18, 2012
Oh god. Not THIS story again!

Seriously, you guys need to start being creative, instead of recycling old and FALSE stories all over the world wide web. Only those with a poor understanding of science will be wowed by the so-called argument in this story. I have not the time to go into arguments, so I'll simply provide you a link with a pretty decent rebuttal. Here you go: http://www.rationalresponders.com/debunking_an_urban_legend_evil_is_a_lack_of_something
Christianity EtcRe: Funny Cartoons - No Sacred Cows Here . . . by Purist(m): 2:55pm On May 09, 2012
FamilyRe: Am I Supposed To Pay For My Wedding? by Purist(m): 6:43pm On May 04, 2012
Sugardiva: @ purist ur definition of marriage is certainly admirable, but bliv me u don't knw my definition of marriage so don't judge ok? The definition I gave u is the general perception in Nigeria today. Call it archaic but dats hw Nigerians think 2day. There is almost no man in Nig who wld cuk n clean 50 percent of d time in a marriage. Evn u who is saying this I only give u the benefit of the doubt believing u since I don't knw u.

I am nt arguing based on my opinion of wat marriage shld be, I am arguing based on wat most peeps think it to be. For ur 50 50 sharing idea to work evry1 wld av to hv ur ideology but evry1 doesn't. So its gud for u, but nt a gud premise upon which to base ur advice to the OP.
Okay, I understand you now. And about my own views on marriage, well, let's just say that I only preach what I practice myself. wink
FamilyRe: Am I Supposed To Pay For My Wedding? by Purist(m): 4:49pm On May 04, 2012
Sugardiva: But i still maintain my stand that its a man's responsiblity to provide. A man who doesnt feel so is not mentally ready for marriage. u talking abt equality?
Good thing it is YOUR stand. Such stands are archaic and do not apply in the modern world. In a marriage, it is the responsibility of BOTH partners to provide financially for the family, unless one of them is financially handicapped.

Sugardiva: In a marriage a woman is solely responsible for domestic upkeep of the home all d cleaning, washing n cooking, taking care of the kids and according to u 50 percent of the finances she gets working at a job just as demanding as her hubby's. What does the man contribute? Only 50 percent of the finances. Is it just me or is equality defined differently in ur dictionary?
It seems you and I have different definitions of marriage. And you seem to be taking the role of a mind-reader here, haughtily assuming that you know my stance on marriage. Again, these things are the responsibility of BOTH partners. Yes, domestic upkeep and all that should be done by BOTH the man and the woman. That is what equality means in my dictionary.
FamilyRe: Am I Supposed To Pay For My Wedding? by Purist(m): 1:09pm On May 04, 2012
Sugardiva: @ all the guys talking abt how couples shld foot wedding bills 50 50 una no get shame? That sounds like irresponsibility.
No, it's not. It's simply common sense. Both parties should contribute EQUALLY in all ramifications so that they can both claim EQUAL stakes in their relationship. This is marriage for crying out loud, not a master-slave relationship. By the way, it seems you ladies discard the equality rule ONLY when pecuniary responsibilities are not in your favour. I'm pretty sure you have no troubles earning the SAME salary as your husband, or even more.

Sugardiva: A man's job is to provide! A woman should supplement not provide. Thats by both cultural and biblical standards.
Cultural practices vary from place to place, even within Nigeria. You should be more specific when referring to culture. Besides, as someone has repeatedly mentioned here earlier, culture and tradition should only be sustained in correspondence to their relevance in the times we are living in. The days when men were required to be the SOLE provider are long over. Such traditions only stood and were rightly justified in the past because men were the only ones allowed to work, while the women sat at home. These days, women not only work, they are even beginning to earn much more than the men. As a result, surely, we cannot still continue to hold on to such archaic "cultures", can we? Law was made for man, not the other way round.

And talking of biblical standards, you're certainly being selective here. The same Bible permits women NOT to speak in the church. I'm fairly certain that doesn't go down well with you. And besides, the bible says that the woman should be the helper, isn't it? That is exactly what this woman here is being asked to do. Obey the bible and HELP her husband-to-be out.

Sugardiva: Be there waiting for a woman who will pay ur bils. Mschew!
No one is asking the woman to pay his bills. All we're clamouring for that she contributes as a co-partner in the relationship. Why is this so hard to grasp?
Christianity EtcRe: I Abandoned Religion And God Today. I'm Free. by Purist(m): 8:09pm On May 03, 2012
davidylan: or which may well turn out to the world's largest hoax. What does the "God particle" tell you?
True. But if found, the "God particle" could help explain how the universe came to be. The discovery would change our present worldview, literally.

davidylan: they've been "mighty close" since i was 10 yrs old. Next?
FALSE. Unless you're 14 years old. grin The LHC only began operation in 2008. As I said, keep your fingers crossed.
Christianity EtcRe: I Abandoned Religion And God Today. I'm Free. by Purist(m): 7:49pm On May 03, 2012
davidylan: and what exactly has CERN achieved that has brought us any closer to figuring out how we came to be? Why cant you provide evidence when asked rather than the cowardly approach of asking others to "research" (the refuge of the clueless).
Well, nothing concrete at the moment. But they are getting quite close to finding that elusive "God particle", which may very well turn out to be one of the biggest discoveries of the century. One of the engineers at CERN recently said that the particle may be discovered in a matter of months. Keep your fingers crossed. wink
FamilyRe: Am I Supposed To Pay For My Wedding? by Purist(m): 7:19pm On May 03, 2012
And by the way, I believe jennykadry here is simply trolling. She cannot possibly be serious with her comments on this thread.
FamilyRe: Am I Supposed To Pay For My Wedding? by Purist(m): 7:18pm On May 03, 2012
Man pays for the wedding. In the future, he says, "I bought you with MY money." And then proceeds to maltreat her.

Woman pays for the wedding. In the future, he says, "You pressurized me to marry you." And then proceeds to maltreat her.

Simple solution: BOTH parties should bare the costs 50-50 (or at least, costs should be scaled according to the financial power of each individual).
FamilyRe: Am I Supposed To Pay For My Wedding? by Purist(m): 4:36pm On May 03, 2012
From all I've read here so far (and I've taken my time, believe me), I see that there is an apparent disparity between men and women here on their conceived notions about marriage/wedding. Apparently, the women - for some reason - believe that contributing in huge chunks financially to their own wedding makes them appear desperate. I guess such mentality only thrives in Nigeria/Africa. Many women here now are incredibly quick to tout and promote "culture" because the pecuniary responsibilities here do not seem to favour them. Yet, these same women shout on top of their voices claiming "equal rights". I guess "equal" rights are selective in the women's world.

I must confess that I am beyond shocked that there are women here who proudly beat their chest, proclaiming that they never contributed a dime to their own wedding. Never heard such, honestly. I can understand if they contributed less, but NOTHING at all? Like seriously?? But then, as I have also got to learn on this thread, it is more of a tribal thing, so I'll let that pass.

The situation here seems like all the women on this board are so fixated on ONLY the wedding and its costs, that they now call the man names and even question his love for his woman, conveniently ignoring the FACT that this man bore all the finances for rent and renovation ALONE for BOTH of them.

Okay, let's reverse the scenario.

- If the guy decides to spend all 100% of his money on the wedding, but insists that his wife-to-be contributes 80% of her own money to the housing, would you see things differently?

- Okay, how about if they had split all the costs 50-50 right from the very beginning (from rent, to renovation to wedding)? If you agree to this, then you'd also agree that there's not much difference - from a mathematical and objective point of view - between this instance and the one they're currently facing. So why not encourage this woman to simply contribute to something they will BOTH benefit from? huh
Christianity EtcRe: Are There Any Female Naija Babes That Are Atheists Or Agnostic? by Purist(m): 8:18pm On Apr 22, 2012
You'll be hard-pressed to find any. Although, back in my OAU days, I had two female friends who, though attended church quite regularly, did not entirely subscribe to the idea of God as presented by Christianity or any other religion for that matter.
Christianity EtcRe: I Abandoned Religion And God Today. I'm Free. by Purist(m): 11:55am On Apr 22, 2012
davidylan: It is ironic that fools who whine all day about being insulted think nothing of insulting, making a mockery off and scoffing openly at the most important personality in the lives of others. Respect is earned, dont disrespect others then complain that you're getting none in return.

Sorry dears, the joke is on you.
Oh, come off it, David. You also mock and scoff at Allah, don't you? And you do realize that he/she/it is the most important personality in the lives of some people too, right? Hypocrisy much?
Christianity EtcRe: To Nairaland Atheist. by Purist(m): 11:30am On Apr 22, 2012
davidylan: I'm not interested in the other person's questions, i posed mine which you at least have taken the time to answer.
Look at your definition for "death" in #1, now explain succinctly to me - what is life? Is your existence any different from that of a plant for example?
Well, your initial response suggested that not only were you interested in the guy's questions, you were also able to make sense out of them. Otherwise, how else would you explain this outburst from you:

"You would have been better off saying you have no clue how or what the answers to his questions are rather than hiding behind your finger."

So are we now playing games here or what? First, you asked for the definition of death, now you ask me to define life? What's your point really? Why don't you simply admit that you goofed by jumping to the defense of something quite [b]s[/b]tupid, and we'll quickly move on?
CelebritiesRe: Don Jazzy Addresses The Illuminati Story by Purist(m): 11:00pm On Apr 21, 2012
logica: You mean, why do envious losers always want to give somebody more successful/talented etc bad press?
Beautifully summarized.

logica: Let me also add that it's the same reason why religious people mandate you to attribute your success to a higher being - they are not comfortable with the fact that there are people with better abilities than them. So, if you read your books and being intelligent enough you excel in your exam you better attribute it to Jesus otherwise you will begin to draw attention and envy. You need to completely make yourself appear to be like them - dumb and all. Otherwise you are arrogant. When you attribute your success to God and make yourself ordinary like them (thereby massaging their ego), you are humble.
You're so ON POINT!
CelebritiesRe: Don Jazzy Addresses The Illuminati Story by Purist(m): 9:56pm On Apr 21, 2012
[quote author=9-zeros]OH MA GOD! I tink i need a new social site. 2many teenagers n jambites on NL.[/quote]If being an "adult" and a "graduate" is what you are, then I'd gladly remain a "teenager" and a "jambite". Thank you.

Now instead of wasting valuable minutes of your life "researching" who belongs to what "fraternity", I think you'll be more useful in a laboratory where they'll examine your brain for symptoms and causes of stupidity.
CelebritiesRe: Don Jazzy Addresses The Illuminati Story by Purist(m): 9:43pm On Apr 21, 2012
Anyone who still wonders why Nigeria is in such a deep mess should visit this thread and wonder no more.

In Nigeria, we have grown up men and women - ADULTS - who believe that you cannot be successful and popular without belonging to some "occult group". ADULTS who cannot reason critically. ADULTS who believe in fairy tales. In the eyes and mind of a typical Nigerian, every successful person is either Illuminati or Freemason or belongs to "Church of Satan". Every extraordinary act or occurrence is attributed to the supernatural - the "underworld" especially. I trust that the smart pastors are already making these their key sermon points, while milking the congregation in the process. If tomorrow, I become rich and famous worldwide, every single gesture I make will be analyzed. From the movement of my eyes, to the positioning of my feet. People will spend hours and days looking for "signs" and "symbols". And when they coincidentally find one that "looks familiar", GBAM! I am labelled an "Illuminati" as well.

Things like this only make people paranoid, and nothing else. And when you're paranoid, you become vulnerable. Vulnerable to your pastors, vulnerable to the media, and vulnerable even to your own sanity. Please, people, wake up!
Christianity EtcRe: To Nairaland Atheist. by Purist(m): 9:17pm On Apr 21, 2012
lol, David. You too?

davidylan: You would have been better off saying you have no clue how or what the answers to his questions are rather than hiding behind your finger.
And you'd have been better off watching from the stands, as it appears your fingers are running faster than your brain this time.

davidylan: What is death? Pls define.
I typically would have ignored this "question" because I know you're not really interested in my response, but I'll answer you anyway. I'm curious to know why you - an otherwise intelligent person - would jump to the defense of something as stupid as this. Here are some dictionary definitions for you to ingest:

1. the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism.
2. an instance of this
3. the state of being dead

Are you done? Now slowly read the dude's questions again and ask yourself if any one of it makes any sense. I'd be worried for you if you can actually make sense out of it.
Christianity EtcRe: To Nairaland Atheist. by Purist(m): 4:55pm On Apr 21, 2012
brainpulse: Logicmind

Have you seen death before( because all things must be seen before i believe), feel death before, talked to death before, analysed death, empiricalized death.Why do you believe you will die? Is it because some people are dying?( then you must be crazy, death its not real). Do death tell people "he or she or it" is coming? What is the Age of death? Does he,she or it evolve? (because all things must evolve). What principle does death operates on? What is the temperature of death? where does he, she or it stays? what does he, she or it eat? Do he, she or it have a family? what is the population of death"s" ( because he, she or it can't be the only one during all the work)? Will death die? Who gave birth to death?

Pls every question must have an answer.
Hold on a second. Are you implying that 'death' is an entity? Like a "being" of some sort? huh

Regardless of your response, I just want you to realize that your questions are as asinine as they come.
CelebritiesRe: Don Jazzy Addresses The Illuminati Story by Purist(m): 4:47pm On Apr 21, 2012
Nedu31: Bill Gate is already a member of illuminati,Dangote belong somewhere while messi is a member of 1 deity in his home town.google the fact out.
While you waste away hours of your life looking for who belongs to what fraternity, people like Bill Gates, Messi, etc who made their success through sheer hardwork are busy going about their own business, completely oblivious of what YOU think they do in private. And please, you guys should really STOP abusing this Google thing. What "FACT" for heaven's sake?!?! angry
CelebritiesRe: Don Jazzy Addresses The Illuminati Story by Purist(m): 4:37pm On Apr 21, 2012
bittyend: Why do guys like you call everything you can't understand "conspiracy theory"?
Why do you guys attribute every successful AND popular person to some "occult group"? From the days of Celine Dion (Church of Satan) to George Bush (Freemason), and now this?

Meanwhile, I asked a question earlier. If you'd scroll up and kindly respond, that would be appreciated.
CelebritiesRe: Don Jazzy Addresses The Illuminati Story by Purist(m): 3:57pm On Apr 21, 2012
Let us - for the sake of argument - accept for a moment that Illuminati (as presented to us by the media) does exist and that these guys are members, can someone kindly explain what visible threat that this "group" pose to the humanity and the world at large?
Christianity EtcRe: I Abandoned Religion And God Today. I'm Free. by Purist(m):
seunajia: @Purist,
I suppose it was apparent from my tone and a part of the post- "PS: I'm not sure if that student was really Albert, just did[n't] wanna alter the post."- that I did not compose the "professor-Einstein" conversion myself, I rather sited it.
I later discovered you uncannily and conspicuously left out that part when quoting, probably to score cheap points.
In case you failed to notice, I was only concerned about the veracity of your so-called story, hence, the reason why I left out the other parts of your post. That false story has been making the rounds on the internet for years now. In fact, there's even a Muslim version of it as I write. And please, don't give the usual BS about the content not being important, but that it's the message in it that really counts.

seunajia: As far as am concerned, nobody wins arguments, except of course in the law courts. We're only exchanging views here, so cut the "Lies" accusations. There is no "carrying" 1st here.
You do not "exchange views" with falsehood. That destroys your credibility, and almost automatically renders the rest of your argument invalid.

seunajia: BTW, your action alludes that-Einstein or not-the facts stated in the there are sacred. And thus broke the backbone of your arguments, making you result to "cheap points" just to save face.
There is NOT a single fact in that story, much less, sacred. The author does a terrible job in his/her portrayal of the "Professor", as he/she only succeeds in painting a picture of a cocky and ignorant person. It would have been better if he/she had just mentioned "atheist teacher" instead, as the man in the story appears too ignorant to be a professor. No actual professor will be bought by such cheap questions about heat and cold, darkness and light, etc. Perhaps, only those that have zero or little knowledge about science would be wowed by such arguments. Educate yourself here and see for yourself that what you consider to be "facts", are in fact, just gibberish: http://www.rationalresponders.com/debunking_an_urban_legend_evil_is_a_lack_of_something

As someone once noted, "If you need to insert Albert Einstein into a story, then it shows a clear lack of confidence in the merit of the argument itself."

seunajia: On a final note, I leave you in God's hands. I have tried to the best of my abilities and there is no compulsion in religion
So, Peace brother!
I leave you in hands of The Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster. May His Noodly Appendage touch and bless you. Peace to you too, brother!
Christianity EtcRe: I Abandoned Religion And God Today. I'm Free. by Purist(m): 11:43am On Apr 17, 2012
@seunaija:

seunajia: Hi all,
TAKE TIME TO READ IT. It's worth reading. Trust me smiley


Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Professor : Is GOD good ?

Student : Sure.

Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?

Student : Yes.

Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

(Student was silent.)

Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Is satan good ?

Student : No.

Professor: Where does satan come from ?

Student : From … GOD …

Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Professor: So who created evil ?

(Student did not answer.)

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, who created them ?

(Student had no answer.)

Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?

Student : No, sir.

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?

Student : No , sir.

Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Professor: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Professor: Yes.

Student : No, sir. There isn’t.

(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class was in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

(The class broke out into laughter. )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.

P.S.

I believe you have enjoyed the conversation. And if so, you’ll probably want your friends / colleagues to enjoy the same, won’t you?

Forward this to increase their knowledge … or FAITH.

By the way, that student was EINSTEIN.
Your "Einstein story" is exceedingly FALSE and has been debunked several times. In fact, this fictional student's "argument" is so puerile and so refutable that it should not be taken seriously by any right-thinking person.

See here:
- http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
- http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/religion/a/einstein_god.htm

Is your God so impotent that you need LIES to defend/promote him/her/it?
PoliticsRe: Your Thoughts On The Banning Of Same-sex Marriage In Nigeria by Purist(m):
Sagamite: The universal concept of marriage in 1948 was between a man and a woman.

It will be interesting to see you produce evidence of Same-sex marriage you referred to though.
Hi Sagamite, for some reason, I missed this part of our 4-month old discourse. There are historical texts that actually confirm that your universal "man-woman" union has not always been the case. If you'd go back to page 5, you'd see that I mentioned that same-sex marriage was very common in many Native American tribes before the advent of Christianity. There are quite a number of authors that wrote about this. Perhaps, the most notable was the man who witnessed this first hand way back in the 16th century. In 1542, Alvar Nuñez Cabeza de Vaca, from where he was held captive for 5 years, wrote the following:

During the time I was among them I saw something very repulsive, namely, a man married to another. Such are impotent and womanish beings, who dress like women and perform the office of women, but use the bow and carry big loads. Among these Indians we saw many of them; they are more robust than the other men, taller,and can bear heavy burdens.
Source: The Journey of Alvar Nuñez Cabeza De Vaca (1542) Translated by Fanny Bandelier(1905)
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/native-homo.asp
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/index-am.asp#c17

There are quite a number of other sources - anthropologists, et al, who have written extensively about the "Two-Spirit People" of Native America. Here's a few:

* A History of Same-Sex Marriage by William N. Eskridge Jr.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1073379?uid=3737976&uid=2&uid=4&sid=56044290963

* The origins and role of same-sex relations in human societies by James Neill
http://books.google.fi/books?id=1ha9GgWNmy0C&pg=PT267&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

* Becoming Two-spirit: Gay Identity And Social Acceptance in Indian Country by Brian Joseph Gilley
http://books.google.fi/books?id=cTKo-6SUUVoC&hl=no&redir_esc=y

* Another mother tongue: gay words, gay worlds by Judy Grahn
http://books.google.fi/books/about/Another_mother_tongue.html?id=fyROOZySzR8C&redir_esc=y

* Two-Spirit People: Native American Gender Identity, Sexuality, and Spirituality by Sue-Ellen Jacobs
http://books.google.fi/books/about/Two_Spirit_People.html?id=Z_ThIx97yw8C&redir_esc=y

There are also other news articles that corroborate this as well:

* Gay Native Americans Reclaim Two-Spirit Culture
http://news.change.org/stories/gay-native-americans-reclaim-two-spirit-culture

* A Spirit of Belonging, Inside and Out
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/fashion/08SPIRIT.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all

* The Berdache Spirit by Wendy Susan Parker
http://www.nu-woman.com/berdache.htm

So, I hope these suffice. smiley
Christianity EtcRe: To Nairaland Atheist. by Purist(m): 7:03pm On Apr 15, 2012
maclatunji: Fatie, there is no amount of books you read that will divorce you from God. It is impossible, you know it in the deepest part of the bottom of your heart.
Lol. I find it amusing whenever I see theists make statements like this. Do you guys seriously believe these things you spew at times?
Christianity EtcRe: Still Doubting That God Exists? Here Is A One Line Proof! by Purist(m): 3:36pm On Apr 15, 2012
cooltrycia: thanks 4 d advice bt i tink u learn 2 read if u cnt decipher simple text language.
You're welcome. But, are you suggesting that I learn to read, because you're too lazy to write sentences in full? Again, learn to type properly. This is a discussion forum where you are supposed to communicate your points in a coherent manner. These abbreviations strain the eyes, you know?
Christianity EtcRe: I Abandoned Religion And God Today. I'm Free. by Purist(m): 2:38pm On Apr 15, 2012
Martian: Sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't teach rastarat right. The parachute is the GREAT LEPRECHAUN. jESUS AND ZEUS ARE JUST FAIRYTALES. I have proof!!!!
All hail the GREAT LEPRECHAUN! grin
Christianity EtcRe: Still Doubting That God Exists? Here Is A One Line Proof! by Purist(m): 2:31pm On Apr 15, 2012
cooltrycia: dnt get worked and YES I KNOW HIM,IF U DOuBT HIS EXISTENCE Y DO U CONTEST MY KNOWING,Y DO U ASK WHO AM I TO KNW HIM? Bt i'l tel u cos HE'S MY FATHER,THE CREATOR,ELSHADAI,ALPHA AND OMEGA,I AM THAT I AM,LION OF JUDAH,THE ONE WHO WAS,IS AND IS TO COME! Yes i know my father and i knw he lives u cn gt angry all u wnt IT WILL NEVER CHANGE GOD NEVER..I SPEAK TO HIM,HE ANSWERS UNCOUNTABLE TIMES. Thats my God take it or leav it floater cs dts wt u r neither here no there jst floating or try JUJU mayb u wuld bliev dat one.
Young woman, this is not Twitter. Learn to type properly, okay?

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