₦airaland Forum

Sagamite: Faith is hope. To practice it, you do not have to question it, just hope it is right and have hope it would solve your problems.

It is not assurance, it is insurance. You can pay all the premium but there is no guarantee you will need it but it reduces your worry.

Nothing people with faith have achieved or can achieve that those without can or have not.

^^ One of the best quotes on Nairaland ever!

frosbel:
Let us all show respect to each others belief systems , though we are in total disagreement.

<snip>

Let there be peace on the Religious Section , not the Muhammad kind of peace, I mean REAL PEACE !!!!!!!!!!!

. . . . .

RESPONSE:


[quote author=harakiri link=topic=768201.msg9218010#msg9218010 date=1316980785]This is coming from someone whose sole purpose in life is to open dumb a$$ thread insulting other religious people and non-religious people. The 2012 nairaland award for being a bloody deluded unrepentent hypocrite with limitless boundaries goes to you! Congrats man! You did it!

[/quote]

ftb:
Did Gid create Evil? No Sir!

I stopped reading here. Clearly, even you don't know your bible well enough.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (KJV)

sexkillz:
Chei! Wait make i laugh first! CRETIN!

↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓

sexkillz:
^^ I know! But the way you guys do it is very wrong! You can show people facts without forcing them and insulting them in the process! That's all!

Look in the mirror, mister.

^^ Damn! You beat me to it.  I was just about to post the same link.

Flashaldrin:
The person that died for two weeks and ressurected, was a local pastor, and was brought to life by a very prominent american evangelist, reinhard bonnke, here in nigeria. When it happened, it was broadcast worldwide, videos, tapes, documentaries where made out of it containing real live scenes, testimonies and eye witnesses. U can still google it.
But no, u wont see that kind of news, u will only see what u want to see.

Talking of being too lazy to google things up, if only you had taken your own advice first before rushing here to make a post about a story/man that has been proven to be a fraud.  You should check out the link mazaje put up there, read everything carefully, and learn the truth about your dear evangelist.  Reinhard Bonnke is German by the way.

Flashaldrin:
Even the best surgeon in the world, ben carson, attests to miracles!!

This is a fallacious appeal to authority.  Ben Carson is a Christian; what do you expect?

^^ Living up to your reputation, eh? Why am I not surprised?

You and your Christian brethren should sort this one out among yourselves. I'm out!

sexkillz:
NEVER have i come ACROSS the word HELLFIRE, in the BIBLE not to talk of God punishing people in HELLFIRE!

HELLFIRE is NOT even MENTIONED in the BIBLE!

You should read your Bible more often, thou "VERY GOOD Christian"!

Matt 5:22, KJV -

    But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his
    brother without a cause shall be in danger of the
    judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca,
    shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall
    say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

aletheia:
Earlier on there was this quote:And right on cue:^Let it be noted that manmustwac typed some words in ALL CAPS in the post above and yet threatens to ban sexkillz for using the same technique to emphasize his posts.
For shame! What hypocrisy!

I think it's okay to sometimes type some words in ALL CAPS for emphasis.  Almost everyone does that from time to time.  But unnecessarily typing an entire comment in ALL CAPS is against the rules of this forum.  Agreed, he didn't do it on this thread, but he had been doing it on other threads, and as at the time of this ban threat, a thread had just been locked because of him.  Here's the thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-740780.0.html
Though I must be quick to point out that manmustwac himself was guilty of the same offense on page 6 of that thread (his was a one-off though).


[quote author=Nairaland Forum Rules and Regulations]AIM FOR MAXIMUM CLARITY
Always aim for maximum clarity when composing content for the Nairaland, and try your best to adhere to all of the widely acknowledged Internet Posting Guidelines:  avoid unecessary use of all caps, punctuate properly, break your posts into short paragraphs, use clear English (no slangs), et cetera.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-1026.0.html[/quote]

And I heard Peter's shadow healed so many sick people too just by walking past them.  I wonder why that magnificent feat has not been replicated anywhere in today's world by any of the current crop of miracle-performing MOGs.  Afterall, they're supposed to be doing even greater things.

sexkillz:
Yeah! To a lay man, this answer sounds SMART! Now, WHAT is the ATHEISTIC DEFINITION of FAITH?

To the best of my knowledge, "faith" has no atheistic definition (whatever that means).

davidylan:
Just as foolish as you who pander to what you know is merely a theory and has no empirical justification.

You really do enjoy insulting people, don't you? Jesus must be really proud of you.

davidylan:
probably because you already have a narrow-mindset of what constitutes logic and religion isnt one of them.

Indeed, you're right.  Religious beliefs, to me, border on the illogical.  Talking snakes and donkeys, walking on water, man wrestling with angel, shadow healing people, turning water into wine, people building a tower to reach heaven that it makes an omnipotent being feel threatened, God having his 'special people' on behalf of whom he instigates wars, etc.  All these things make no sense to me.   But going by your own submission on another thread, it appears you also have this 'narrow mindset' yourself.

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davidylan:
Its illogical, it makes no sense . . . but i firmly believe that Jesus Christ IS LORD of all and His word is TRUTH.
I will be just fine leaving this world with that firm faith, if i'm wrong . . . no problem but you better hope i'm not right. 
Source:  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-747694.0.html#msg9038233

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sexkillz:
So you have FAITH in those things then?

If by 'faith', you mean believing without evidence (Heb 11:1), then my answer is a big NO.

davidylan:
[size=14pt]Most skeptics take pride in their intellectual ability and like to think that they have no "beliefs." However, modern science has shown us that everyone has beliefs, since this is how our brains work.[/size]

I would think that when skeptics declare that they have no 'beliefs', what they actually mean is that they have no religious beliefs. I sure as hell know that I believe in so many things. Religion isn't just one of them.

globexl:
I have repeated myself so many times. I am tired. These people are deaf.Atheism(dont mind the ism) is neither a  belief nor a philosphy, so asking what it is based on is silly (sorry to say that).
I think atheism is about taking a norman rational and sceptic aproach at the religous narrative as espoused by the multitudes of the competing religious bodies. Besides not believing in god, I also dont believe that 1+1+1=1, I aslo dont beleive that you can turn N1m into N10m in one month with any legitimate business, I also dont believe in Mami water, I dont believe that the earth is the center of the universe, I dont believe that witches and wizards are the causes sickness and death .etc. etc.
Sceptism is part and parcel of our mental make up. We employ sceptism in our business dealings, in our dealings with both friends and foes, in our personal and family lives. when sceptism is deployed to dissect ancient  religious myths, then we are called atheist. It is not a unique or peculiar philosophical system. It is just asking: what? who? when? and how? , something both you and I do countless times everyday in other aspects of our lives.   Do you need to be labeled with an ism when you ask those questions? No.
I dont see how by saying that one does not believe your religious narrative, that makes the person silly, a sinner, shallow and spiritually empty.

Absolutely spot on.

Sam Harris put this more succinctly in his book, "Letter to a Christian Nation":

In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist."
We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle.
Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.

davidylan:
Oh please not this boring lie again. Really? the atheist is some scientific genius who only wants "established fact-based truths"? Yeah and i saw pigs fly out of my window.

I didn't know that only scientific geniuses were entitled to 'established fact-based truths'.  My point though, is that if the evolution theory is eventually proven to be true beyond any reasonable doubt, it would indeed be foolish and dishonest to dismiss it simply because it contradicts one's religious beliefs.

InesQor:
@Purist:

I am inclined to pick further arguments in your responses but let's just agree to disagree.

Alright then, man.

Okay.

davidylan:
But science is. and i can guarantee that where evolution to be an established fact-based truth, evolution would be CENTRAL to the atheist claim.

I agree.  But shouldn't it be so ideally?  Afterall, the average atheist out there is only in pursuit of established fact-based truths.  And so should every other rational, honest person.

Wow, wordtalk actually responded far better than I would have.  Thanks man!

@InesQor:

InesQor:
Faith does not necessarily have to do with God or as you say, the God hypothesis.

Since you stated boldly that "An atheist is an atheist by faith, in the same token that a theist is a theist by faith", it is only logical to assume that the faith you refer to here DOES indeed have everything to do with God.  But for the benefit of doubt, that was why I pointed out in my post that your submission above would perhaps depend on how 'faith' itself is defined.  It's always important to put things in their proper context, else, we'd end up being entangled in a "semantic web" (pun intended ).

InesQor:
Do you see that phrase of yours that I outlined in red?

Yes indeed, I see it.  But as wordtalk already explained above, which I'll summarise thus:  The mere element of 'belief' does not suffice to qualify something as 'faith'.  Else, my belief that FSM loves to eat pounded yam would also be a show of faith.  But again, it depends on how you define faith or in which context you apply it.

InesQor:
That is faith. By you, Purist. When you have no tangible proof, so to say, but you make something the reality that you accept.

No, it's not.  It's just a casual remark I use all the time when conversing with people, especially offline.  Could have as well said, "right?" in place of "I believe".  Hope you get the gist.

InesQor:
Atheists are atheists due to beliefs that are not based on proof (whether they believe they can find no empirical proof of God, or they believe he does not exist) and Theists are theists due to beliefs that are not based on proof. This is why I said.

Yes, Yes, I understand this point.  However, my response to this was to show you that this is not always the case, as there are different 'types' of atheists.  See below.

InesQor:
And as for Purist, who believes that a person born into an atheist home will have no evidence of God in his purview, this belief is likewise NOT based on proof. It's not like he knows for sure. In fact, the definition above uses a somewhat similar example in parentheses.

I think you misunderstood me. I was illustrating a hypothetical situation (which is not so hypothetical if we look around) which invalidates your claim that I quoted above.  What I meant was this:  If a child who is born to atheist parents (and is therefore incognizant of the God hypothesis) attains adulthood with this incognizance, his lack of belief in a God would NOT be in the same token as the 'faith' expressed by the theists around him, but will instead be because he simply has no idea what "God" even means.  Surely, it is impossible to disbelieve what one has not even comprehended in the first place.  Hope you understand now.


P.S.  George Smith did quite well in explaining the various meanings and varieties of atheism in his book, "Atheism - The Case Against God".  You may want to have a look.

Funny how the OP (and many others like him) seem to know God so much that they are able to tell exactly WHY God allows evil.  Yet, in the not-so-distant future, when asked to elucidate the nature of this God, they will come here and tell us that God is incomprehensible.

On God and the problem of evil, I share Epicurus's sentiments -

                "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
                     Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
                     Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
                     Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

InesQor:
An atheist is an atheist by faith, in the same token that a theist is a theist by faith.

That's all folks,   

Hi InesQor,

Your submission here largely depends on how one defines atheism, and perhaps, faith too.  For instance, a child born into an atheistic household, growing up with absolutely no idea of the God hypothesis would certainly not fall into this 'faith' category, I believe.

davidylan:
you would then think atheists also believe the same thing? On this thread we have atheists who think evolution is nonsense too.

And could that be because evolution is NOT central to atheism?

Lately, there seems to be this rampant misconception here on Nairaland that every atheist (or non-religious person) is an evolutionist (or believes in evolution) by default.  I wonder where that came from.

I, for one, unsubscribed from religion long before I had any idea what the theory of evolution was even about.  That being said, the evolution theory is indeed substantially more plausible than any of the creationist cock and bull I've seen in religious texts.

^^  Davidylan is quite an intelligent fellow everywhere on Nairaland except the Religion board.  I oft wonder how he manages to achieve this feat.  As for sexkillz, that one is just a clown that deserves no serious mention anywhere.

@topic:  Apparently, this is one question no single theist anywhere in the world is able to answer.  But instead of doing the honourable thing by admitting that they do not know (atheists have no trouble admitting that their knowledge is limited), they'd rather go about in circles, dodging questions and asking utterly stupid questions in return.  Pathetic indeed.

mazaje:
Because science has disproved many Gods and religious assertions and it will continue to do so. . .Humans have always invented Gods or other invisible entities and supernatural explanations to explain that which they don't understand.  But then science comes along and tells them to stop sacrificing virgins to please some imaginary fertility Gods, science has shown people that there are no weather Gods that need pleasing, and we can do better by using irrigation and planting weather resistant crops instead of wasting time sacrificing animals to please the weather Gods. . .When sick science has provided us with drugs to cure and help us out instead of praying to some Gods for healing or sprinkling the bloods of some animals on sick people to heal them. . . Science has provided the best explanations for most things. . .The rainbow use to be explained as a necklace of some Goddess or a covenant between some Jewish tribal God and  his chosen people, but science came along and showed that its simply a fraction of light waves in the earth's atmosphere. . .Where are the Gods of thunder and lighting? Once the scientific explanation was provided for these two phenomenon the Gods of thunder and lighting all died natural deaths , no?. . . .Our ignorance is God, what we know is science. . . .

To buttress your point, here's something I just copied off some page on Facebook:

Reason always wins when logic and evidence are revered standards. Science has answered so many questions that religion used to try and explain (earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, volcanoes, the tides, planets, stars, birth, death, disease, seasons, etc.) yet people still fill in the blanks science hasn't gotten to yet with "god". Why? What's one thing that we used to answer with science that religion now gives the best explanation for?

@thehomer:

The sooner you realize sexkillz is not here for a debate, the better for you.  His penultimate response on this thread just pretty much sums up his reasoning capacity. Save yourself some precious time, seriously.

I like this one so much:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

Evangelical Atheist (sense 3):

A term often used by frustrated theists as a slur against atheists. The term is a contradiction since atheism is not a belief system or a cause, nor does it have any dogmas or requirements. An atheist doesn't convert people.

"That guy thinks I'm an evangelical atheist because he can't defeat my arguments rationally"

Same link: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=evangelical%20atheist

davidylan:
Makes no sense. The christian faith rests on the belief that God is omniscient i.e. was not created by any.

Of course it does make sense. Asking the OP to read the book of Genesis to get answers to his questions suggests that the answers lie somewhere in the pages of the first book of the Bible. And besides, I thought omniscient means 'all-knowing'?