It's only in extremely rare cases that parent languages survive alongside the daughter languages they gave rise to. Eg, Latin surviving (mostly in Catholic liturgy) alongside its daughter languages Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian, etc.
1. Oko + uwa. Oko is Igbo for man or male. Uwa is Edo for wealth. So it would mean man of wealth or wealthy man. I disagree with this explanation because Ika people do not say uwa but uwe. If the name was wealthy man, it would have been Okowe or Okuwe.
2. The second explanation which makes more sense to me is Oko + Owa, where Oko is still Igbo for man, and Owa is the name of the town. So that Okowa would mean man from Owa.
TAO11: That boy is a circus clown. Ask if he has eaten today to want to send people money??
Even Samuel Johnson's "The History of the Yorubas" was completed by 1897.
His illiteracy is just too loud.
Roupell who was involved in the invasion of 1897 also wrote that the Palace Officials told him that Benin people sent to Ife for a king and Eweka was sent to them.
samuk: The challenge is very simple. Anybody interested should go through the various libraries and archives of Benin history written between 1475 to 1897, a 400 years period and believe me there are thousands of pages covering every rulers and people Benin came into contact with. All I am asking is to point out the names Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan from any of those written accounts.
The thread has gone quiet since I throw up the challenge.
I am certain there will be nothing to point to because Benin/Ife relationship was created after the end of Benin empire in 1897.
The Yoruba are trying to create Ife out of the ashes of Benin empire and claim Benin history for themselves, but Benin is not completely dead, buried or cremated yet.
I am throwing an open challenge to anyone here to provide any mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Benin written history between 1475 to 1987, a 400 years period. I will send that person $1000, yes one thousand dollars to cushion the effects of these lockdown.
J U Egharevba's work counts as written history between 1475 and 1987 oh. I'm just telling you now make them no chop your 1K.
samuk: Benin have nothing to do with south east, just let south southerners be who they want to be. You can't come to south south and want to dominate the people.
It was this same altitude of the Igbo trying to greedily appropriate everything for themselves that partly lead to the Nigeria civil way and you guys losing your top position in Nigeria.
After your boys killed the Sarduana and other top Northerners to have their way to every section of Nigeria, Ironsi, changed the regional system of government to the current unitary system and the Igbo quickly moved to the North, asked all the expatriates to leave their jobs and they took the jobs for themselves.
The North had no choice but to fight back, till now the North is still very suspicious of the Igbo man, will anyone really blame them.
As chronicled by Prince Chris Afumata Akeh- Osu in The History of Great Isi-Ile-Uku (Issele-Uku) Kingdom
Isi-Ile-Uku, “Issele-Uku” Kingdom was founded by the Binis in about 1230 AD by Oba Eweka 1 of Benin Empire and first Ogie of the kingdom was Prince Uwadiaie who was the second son of Oba Eweka 1.
The original name of the new kingdom carved out of Benin Empire “Isi-Ile-Uku” signifies relationship with the Benis and Oba of Benin-City ‘Uku akpolokpolo Omonoba n’edo’.
When Oba Eweka 1 created the new Benin outpost of Isi-Ile-Uku now pronounced Issele-Uku, his main objectives was to check and stop the influx of the movement of people from East of the River Niger, and people from Igala land into the Edo land West of the River Niger, for farming and fishing operations. Also to use Isi-Ile-Uku, the new outpost and kingdom, as a defensive outpost to the Benin Empire and moreover for expansion purposes.
Prince Uwadiaie, the second son of Oba Eweka 1, was crowned Ogie ‘King’ by his father Oba Eweka1 of Benin Empire about 1230 A.D. and sent to rule the Bini new kingdom of ISI-ILE-UKU in company of a group of Binis, worriors, administrators, chiefs and other princes of the royal family of Benin from Ogbe, Ehaekpen, Idumu Inaleibiwe, idumu Igun, Idumu Iken, Idumu Isama and Idumu Ugboka. Members of the royal family of Benin were settled at Ehaekpen of Issele-Uku.
These Bini quarters – Ogbe and Idumu are now called Isheakpe, Ogbidibo, Idumu-Inele Ebigwe, Idumu Uzu, Idumu Ikem, Idumu Ozoma, Idumu Onishe, Idumu Ihama, Idumu Isama and Idumu Edemoka “Umu edomoka” at Ogboli. The present language of the people of Issele-Uku has changed slightly the original pronounciations.
The Oba of Benin in the days of old had real suzerainty over the kingdom of ISI-ILE-UKU. The new kingdom of ISI-ILE-UKU was gladly hailed in Benin then as an Eastern extension of Benin empire. In fact, the kings of ISI-ILE-UKU have paraphernalia and relics of kingly office as the Oba of Benin and performs the same yearly festival – Ugie ro ‘Oba – “Uje ine Aho Obi” at Issele-Uku.
The kings of ISI-ILE-UKU “ISSELE-UKU” are the true representatives of the Oba of Benin in the area lying to the West of the River Niger and as such the Obi “king” of Issele-Uku has a position of authority as the oba’s authentic representative in the Eastern extremeties of the great Benin Empire
The custom and tradition of Benin is the same at Issele-Uku and the influence of Bini language can be noticed or traced in the Ika-Ibo language of the people of ISI-ILE-UKU “ISSELE-UKU”.
The Oba of Benin continues to crown the Obis of Issele-Uku until presently when he sends Chiefs to officiate for him on the crowning of any new Obi “king” of ISI-ILE-UKU “ISSELE-UKU”. Although the Ika-Ibo Language predominates at Issele-Uku nowadays and it was due mainly to the fact that there were more interactions with the later Ibo founded towns around Issele-Uku than Benin-City which is situated a long distance away
How is this relevant to the question asked about Ukwuani? Is Issele-Uku in Ukwuaniland?
samuk: To answered your question about why will a Benin bears Chime.
I already told you that there are Benin people in today Benin city that neither bear Benin names or even speak Benin language and that doesn't deny them of Benin ancestry.
To your second question of alternative history that disproved and tribe Benin oral history.
My answers to that in my post, is you will hardly see Benin people claiming anyone, but when any tribe traces their root to Benin we acknowledge them.
As to your claim that there was centuries old tradition of Benin Bronze being influenced from Ife.
That is a big fact lie, there is no centuries old tradition of Benin art coming from Ife. Show me any written accounts that says so before the end of Benin empire in 1897. All the fabrications some of you are regurgitating as Benin history started after 1897.
There is nothing written, recorded and documented about Benin/Ife for the first 500 years of Benin history.
The current Benin/Ife history was written in 1930, but Benin/Lagos relationship was documented as far back as 1603.
The Igbos are having the same problem as the Yorubas. There was no such thing as a unified Igbo ethnicity or the word Igbo until recently. There are still people in Anioma that denies being Igbo. The Dein of Agbor being one of them. He even changed his title from Obi to Dein.
There are people in Rivers state that doesn't see themselves as Igbo.
Igbo is a political creation to bring various independent tribes together under one umbrella called Igbo.
You don't force your Igboness on people that are not comfortable with it. We are on this thread debating because the Dein of Agbor is not happy that his people culture is being Igbonised.
Benin doesn't force itself on people by fire by force, you guys should learn the same thing, that it's not by force to be Igbo.
You asked about what Zik wrote, who am I to say Zik lied, why would Zik lie about his history, what was he going to gain by claiming Benin ancestry.
I also reference another Anambra man Olaudah Equiano that wrote and described himself as the subject of Benin in 1776.
Benin empire is not the same as Benin city, Benin empire comprises of various tribes. A unified language was not imposed on the subject the way the Igbos are forcing and blackmailing everyone from Anioma to Ekpeye and Ikwerre in Rivers to become Igbo. I doubt if the average Igbo man from Okar understand must Ika dialects.
Long before the words Yoruba and Igbo were coined, there was Benin. Benin empire also had people from various tribes the way current Igbo and Yoruba comprises of various tribes today. If Benin had forced the various tribes within it's influence to speak Benin, you all and must tribes in today's south south would have been speaking and answering Benin names.
I was not even talking about whether Anioma should be Igbo or not, but about the variety within oral traditions.
This is a very deflective response. But it's okay.
samuk: I wasn't referring to you but the so called anthropologists and those feeding on their nonsense. The people clearly told them their oral history and who was their overlord, it's not in place of the writer to doubt the people's history.
After the British sacked Benin in 1897, they went all out to diminished the influence of Benin across the region. Even after the monarchy was restored, the British discouraged traditional rulers that w 2ere part of old Benin empire from paying homage to the new Oba of Benin.
Today, there are traditional rulers in Anioma and across south south that still claim Benin ancestry over 120 years after the empire ended. Benin is not the one claiming these people, but we will not reject but acknowledge them. Benin ancestry is not the monopoly of those that live in Benin alone.
In the screenshot you posted, it wasn't the people that said they weren't from Benin, it was the anthropologists that said he couldn't find the basis for the people's claim to Benin or you didn't read it before you posted it. You submission said there was an annual message being sent between the Anioma/Onitsha and Benin until around 1840.
Okay. Any comment on what Azikiwe himself wrote in 1930?
Mind you, the tradition that Ezechime came from near Benin, but not from Benin itself, persists till today in some Umuezechime towns. Obomkpa, for example, will tell you that he came from a kingdom called Ogidi which was destroyed by Benin.
What I've been trying to let you understand is that there are other traditions that contradict the Benin-emigration account, and if we want to be objective students of history, we should take those traditions too into account and not simply focus on the one that has gained popularity.
We should also ask such questions as: Why did a Benin man have a name like Chima? Why did a Benin man leave Benin with an Ufie? Benin people have no Ufie. Ufie is an Igbo thing.
Today, Benin scholars are countering the story that brass-casting was introduced from Ife. Despite the fact that there are centuries-old recorded traditions that the craft came from Ife. They point out, for example, that Iguegha is not a Yoruba name. I think other historians working in other fields ahould be afforded the same leeway to question traditions that are questionable.
Traditions are not sacrosant. If they were there wouldn't be more than one version the same story. Yet we find various versions existing side by side. Anyone attempting to reconstruct the past from these oral traditions must place all the versions side by side and criticise them, applying logic where it should.
samuk: Too many ignorant bigoted latterday revisionist from the Biafra south east. Everyone now have to have Nri ancestry. Old history of the various people that make up the south east have to be replaced with new fabrications.
This is not "latter day". This is from 1912.
This is not from a Biafran. This is from the respected British anthropologist Northcote Thomas.
ChinenyeN: I don't know about the python cult part. I don't recall coming across any notes or observations on the artifacts that revealed snake worship. Granted, I'm not thoroughly familiar with the particulars of python worship, so there might have been small details that I could not have caught while reading through their findings.
The python motif is ubiquitous in Igbo Ukwu art, from the pottery to the bronze work.
samuk: Excerpt: “One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word ‘Onitsha’. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins, “ “I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N’Idu, , ” “As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc, ” SOURCE – Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) “My Genealogy and Nativity” p 11 – 12
Lol. Go and read 'Fragments of Onitsha History', an essay that Zik wrote in 1930, 40 years before his autobiography came out. Zik wrote there that his people migrated from a kingdom which was close to and under the shadow of the Benin Empire. He called the kingdom Ado n'Idu and said it was "a subordinate district of the empire of Benin", and also that "The Ado n'Idus were a sort of ally to Benin", and that "relations between the two kingdoms were close."
Clearly, in 1930, Zik believed his people came, not from Benin, but from somewhere close to and under Benin's influence, probably the present-day Anioma; and that they moved out because of hostilities from the expanding empire of Benin.
I'm just throwing it out there so people know there are other traditions apart from the Benin emigration story that has now drowned out the other (more logical) tradition.
ChinenyeN: There's evidence to suggest that the Igbo Ukwu artifacts likely do not belong to either Nri or Igbo Ukwu. It's far more likely to have belonged to a now forgotten group or community that inhabited the area prior.
Probably belonged to an older culture centered around the worship of the python cult (Idemmili).
RedboneSmith bam waiting for your next counter Am doing a vigorous research on benin-ife possibilities so i wont you to bring fact thats is new but well documented to ascertain discussion so when am writing i can point out this fact
Lmao. I got four mentions for just this one small comment?
You're really bored sha. Looking for an argument anyhow. What is your evidence that Ebowani is the same as Ewuare? The names don't even look or sound similar. That the writer of that article (Stefan Eisenhofer) assumed they were the same person and put the names side by side isn't proof enough that it was the same person.
And on the issue of Oranmiyan, given the fact that it was said by some that he didn't reign but only gave birth to the first ruler of the second dynasty (Eweka), it is understandable why his name would be absent in some kinglists.
By the way, the current Oba has affirmed that Oranmiyan indeed is the founder of the current dynasty. Are you calling your oba a liar? Please answer this question. Very important.
The greatest of the Benin Oba, Oba Ewuare I is also missing from Roupell's list. Which means Ewuare I too was concocted by Talbot and never existed, abi?
Culture › Re: Aniomas And Ikwerre People Have Not Learned From History So Sad. by RedboneSmith(m): 8:38pm On May 13, 2020
