₦airaland Forum

So everyone is now pulling a Drake. It's all good though.

PrinceOgun:
I presume you are Igbo, so now because I met an anambra man bearing Okon or Effiong is that enough to say Igbo's are Efik.... Or the other day one of the aspirants of the just concluded anambra election bears Osekola is that enough to say he is and Edo man?.. Even if that is clearly an Edo name!

Like I said earlier get Articulate in your reasoning!

It is Oseloka. How is that an Edo name? What does it mean in Edo? Because you saw 'Ose' (which, I agree was borrowed from an Edoid word for God) in a name then that name must be an Edo name? What about the rest of the name --- what does Eloka mean in Edo?

It is like a Cross River man saying Nwobasi is a Cross River name because he saw Obasi in the name.

That the mods allow these kinds of posts thrive.... SMDH

You shut down YouTube because of porn? Am I missing something here? Is YouTube now a porn site -- or are twerking videos now porn too?

Anyways, shutting down YouTube in a university environment is ill-advised, as there are lots, LOTS, of very educative material on YouTube. YouTube helped me immensely during my post-grad studies. Most of my lecturers would always drop one YouTube link or the other for us to go check out.

Will it be possible for us to correspond by mail? I have a few questions to ask about Igala words, but I do not want to do it here.

IgalaSchool:
Also, Yorubas who understand their second Yoruba dialects well, understand Igala more than Yorubas who speak just plain general Yoruba

Just my opinion.

This is true if their second dialects come from the Eastern Yoruba area.

MayorofLagos:
(1) Before Afonja uprising what role did Ilorin play in history of Yorubaland?

It was the cosmopolitan urban center of Yoruba Culture. The gateway into Yoruba. It was under the ruling authority of Alaafin. It was at a confluence of trade routes into Ashanti, Kordofan, Mali, Yauri, Kano, Nupe....

Naturally, Alaafin placed in there a tax collector.....but because it also housed spies and agents of enemy kingdoms it called for a military outpost as well. The Aare Ona Kakanfo used to domicile in Oyo. The ambitious expeditions of Aare was one too many and on the edge....reason he was relocated to Ilorin.

Now, who were the people in Ilorin? Fulani was amongst the people It was predominantly Yoruba but others lived there as well....citizens of Baruba, Yauri, Tapa, Mali, Hausa and so on but Fulani was there as well. They were Islamic clerics and did not nurse the either of war against Oyo. Afonja was the one who warred against Oyo, he had warriors but not enough number to overrun Oyo...this is where Alimi came in.


(2) The Ilorin warriors were led by Yorubas. They were trained the art of war strategies under the Eso but it just happened they were staged in Ilorin, and not in Oyo itself.

(3) Specific to your referenced period, Ibadan was fighting wars with many different nations simultaneously. The army was stretched and the strategy was defense of Ibadan, not occupation of another land. So what gains were there for them in securing Ilorin? At that point in time, none!

(4) in Jalumi war, which you left out, Ibadan succeeded in pushing Ilorin out completely and back to Ilorin. In hindsight they should have chased after them and complete their retreat out of Ilorin and to the other side of Niger, but that was not expedient at the time tue to their many campaigns against others.

(5) Let's be proud of Ibadan and give credit in recognition of their valour.
What stopped Ijesha, Ijebu, Egba, Offa and others from marching up to Ilorin to chase fulani out? Why does it have to be Ibadan fighting the enemy? Matter of fact while Ibadan was battling Ilorin, other Yoruba nations were battling Ibadan.

The loss of Ilorin is a shame on Yoruba generally, not just Ibadan.

(6) Ilorin never again dared Ibadan or any Yoruba town after Jalumi. In the aftermath and after Afonja had been killed, they created a political class to rule over them and the title was Oba of Ilorin.

(7) The rule by proxy introduced by British did not respect history or ethnic, they pretty much were interested in heirarchy order and how to class that heirarchy for effective control and indirect rule of the grassroot. The heirarchy in Ilorin wore a turban, not a crown as Yoruba Obas do and so Ilorin was classed into turban wearing heirarchies.

Similar thing happened in Epe. They needed to classify the ruler of the town and this led into dispute with Akarigbe of Remo. The British called Ooni to give judgement.

If Yoruba had raised objection about the turban wearing Oba of Ilorin being grouoed with other turban wearing kings Ilorin title might have remained Oba. No one objected.

The Northern Emirate changed the title from Oba to Emir.

Ilorin, as at 1966, was the capital of North Western State. The Yorubas still had a chance to recover it and bring it back politically into a full Western State. The different political ambitions and complete raype of the country by successive military administration chipped away at references of Ilorin to West or Yoruba.

( Over the years attempts have been made to reverse the loss of Ilorin. The problem of regaining it lie within Yoruba itself.

Governor Mohammed Alabi Lawal, former Governor of Kwara State was an opponent of the Emir of Ilorin. Yoruba knew this yet made no political moves to support and sustain the efforts of the Governor.

In Moro Local Govt of Kwara State, where the town of Jebba is, there is an Oba. The Northerners do not want any Oba in Kwara and particularly that Adebara claims that as the longest reigning dynasty in Kwara, he is independent and should not be chaired by the Emir. Emir of Ilorin however wants to subdue the Oba crown under his domain and ultimately erase it. Jebba is North of Ilorin. Oba Adebara has been fighting this battle alone. What is Yoruba doing in support of Oba Adebara against to Sulu Gambari and the North?

Few years ago OPC invaded Ilorin with the single action to raid the palace, depose the King and install an Oba. Along the route heading to Kwara their movement in such large number and convoy was suspected and the Police command in Ilorin was notified. When they got to border to Kwara they met tanks and battle ready army and police, they were denied entry into Kwara. No confrontation, they turned back.

Early this year we got news that the Jebba bridge had collapsed. The link between North and South on the Western flank is that bridge crossing. All the traffic that passes through that bridge is a boost to economy of Jebba. The town is a resting spot for travellers. Without the bridge the economy will collapse. Travellers have been forced to reroute away from Jebba since the bridge went down. Did the bridge collapse, or was that an act of sabotage by pro Emir elements to destroy the economy of Jebba and shame the Oba?

Now, we cannot count on Senate President Saraki, being a Senator from Kwara to see the economic impact to the different layers of production in the Supply and Distribution chain that use this bridge or the suffering their absence would bring on the community, because Olusola Saraki was one of those that plotted the downfall and ultimately the death of Governor Lawal. In fact Bukola Saraki was Governor and it is still believed in Ilorin till today that he and his fatjer had a hand in Governor Lawal's death. Saraki is an avid pro Emir, they are trying to destroy Jebba and erase its Yoruba link.

The VP is Yoruba, Minister of Works is Yoruba....what actions are they taking to see to it that a new bridge is constructed and the economic lifeline of Jebba returns? That would be a victory for Oba Adedara to lift up his head and remain poised against Emir and his agents of hate.

This Ilorin issue is a collective Yoruba challenge, not just Ibadan. Ibadan has done its part.

I left out the Jalumi War? Apparently you just skimmed through my post.

Anyway this was quite a lot to take in. Thanks for the perspective.

MayorofLagos:
Radiocarbon dating itself is not conclusive and final on excavated archives.

There is an element of assumption in radiocarbon methods. It is a protocol adopted for advancing theories....pending discovery of a more definite physical evidence to yield facts.

Please let us be mindful and not supersede valid oral history with assumed calculations.

There is a measure of error in radiocarbon-dating, which archaeologists try to account for with the +- X years.

But dates obtained from oral genealogy are infinitely more flawed than radiocarbon-dating. And the longer the time-period between the event and the oral retelling the greater the risk of error.

Any scholar presented with different dates for an ancient event --- one obtained from oral genealogy and the other obtained from dated archaeological sites will definitely pick the radiocarbon-dating as being more accurate.

MayorofLagos:
If we could fight off British sailors in boats and over waters in 1850, what stopped us from decimating Fulani horseriders galloping in open view across the plains....or into dangerous terrains of the forest where tree canopies can aid our concealment and assist ambush with the lethal fire power of guns?

This is a question you should try to answer. Why? Why didn't they dislodge the Fulani from Ilorin? There were at least three attempts to do so that ended in failure. The Battle of Ogele, the Mugba Mugba War, the Kanla War. Why did those attempts fail? It isn't Bower's fault that they failed.


The Ibadan inflicted a heavy defeat on Ilorin at Osogbo in 1840. Why did they not pursue that victory by trying to carry the war to them in Ilorin? The same happened at the Jalumi War where they beat Ilorin forces. Again they didn't match on to Ilorin to engage them there. Why? It can't be the fault of the British.

I have tried to analyse why, and my opinion is: they knew the Ilorin cavalry was a formidable force at home on the open plains of Ilorin and they weren't prepared to engage them in pitched battle there. If you have an alternative theory present it. But don't tell me na Bower cause am. The Yoruba had over 60 years to deal with Ilorin before the British put an end to all Wars in Yorubaland. If the job couldn't be done in that time it wasn't because of the British.

macof:
Either of those or oranmiyan wasnt the founder of Oyo

Do the math

Did the math a long time ago. The Oranmiyan story get K-leg. This is why it is dangerous to place too much faith in oral traditions. Thank god for the little corrections we are able to make in the light of archaeological evidence.

MayorofLagos:
That is not accurate. Ibadan itself was a relocation into the forest, from an earlier geographical settlement in the open plains in higher latitude than Ilorin. Oyo Ile was geographically North of Ilorin, and they kept cavalry in Oyo Ile. There are no fulani fighting on the Yoruba side but there were Yoruba warriors on the Ilorin side. This is why we remind that it was not a jihadi that took Ilorin....rather it was act of rebellion by the Yorubas in outposts.

Fulani would not have had a chance were there no Yoruba warriors pushing the front south into the territories.

We are not discussing Old Oyo here, which everyone knows had a cavalry. We are discussing the 19th century martial state of Ibadan and its chances against Ilorin, given mid-to-late 19th century realities.

I did not "adduce" Ilorin with "such glory". You people on this site are too emotional. What I said about Ilorin is what every student of history knows, i.e., Ilorin had the stronger cavalry and was the superior when it comes to fighting in the open plains; the Ibadan army was largely infantry and was superior when it comes to fighting in wooden country. Shikenan. I gave both states their due --- I wasn't "adducing" undue glory to either of them. Stop being unduly emotional.

macof:
and by the 12th century Oranmiyan wasnt even born. there is no dating of such in oral tradition

Do the math

Are you saying that the radiocarbon-dating of Luwo's pavements which yielded dates from the 12th century is wrong?

Or are you saying that associating the pavements with Luwo is wrong?

macof:
It's historical fallacy to say Oduduwa came before Christ. I assume you mean the King oduduwa and not the mythical one that is talked about in Yoruba creation stories.
Because, the King Oduduwa must have lived in the 12th/13th century. 51 kings of Ife, Oyo founded by his son etc.. do the math

By the 12th century, the 21st Ooni was already reigning in Ile-Ife, if the radiocarbon-dating for the Luwo pavements match the oral tradition.

The 'Oduduwa Era' must have begun by the 9th or 10th century.

People who think Ibadan would have driven the Fulani from Ilorin if the British hadn't stepped in forget that Ibadan had ample time to do so - and failed - before the British stepped in in the 1890s.

The reason Ibadan didn't/couldn't do it is largely strategic/military and geographic. Ilorin had a powerful cavalry and were unbeatable in the open plains (which is where Ilorin was located.) Ibadan on the other hand had no cavalry force -- whatever horses they had were mainly for civil transportation. Any engagements in the plains between the Ibadan infantry and the Ilorin cavalry was most likely to end in Ilorin's favour.

It was in the southern forest lands that Ibadan proved superior to the Ilorin forces, as the latter could not effectively use its cavalry in forested country. Hence the reason why Ibadan could halt Ilorin's expansion south, but could not present a challenge to Ilorin in the open plains to the north.

Don't blame the British for that. Blame geography and the failure of Ibadan to build a strong cavalry.

The meaning of 'curvy' has really changed. It used to mean small waist and wide hips. Now I don't even know

'Chubby' too politically incorrect, I guess.

Probz:
I see. And what about those Aro communities scattered across Igboland (aka not just Arochikwu)? Birds of the same feather?

They were founded by traders from Arochukwu.

The painter did not take the crown seriously.

The Uruan subgroup of the Ibibios were there first. Then the Igbo under Eze Agwu came next. The Igbo clashed with the Ibibios and brought an Edda native doctor Oke Nnachi to make war medicine for them. The Edda doctor in turn recruited the Akpa mercenary warriors under the command of Akuma Nnubi. After the war which expelled the Ibibios (except for a small remnant that integrated into the new emerging Aro society) Akuma became king, but after a while, the kingship passed from the Akuma (Akpa) line to the Oke Nnachi (Edda) line.

This is the summary of a complicated foundation tradition that has many versions. If Odumchi is still here he may have a thing or two to add or correct. He is a son of the soil.

Hati13:
Yes

Is there a connection between the Zagwes and the kings of Aksum like Ezana?

I read the Zagwe dynasty also traces descent from Moses, but that claim is probably mythical too.

zenmaster:
here is a picture of the coin

cc RedboneSmith

Who hasn't seen this coin? Why are you showing me what I have known and seen all my life? Why can't you show me what I asked for --- the solid bronze Star that the British purportedly dug up in 1917.

This coin was used in all British colonies in West Africa, from Gambia to Ghana to Sierra Leone and then Nigeria. What is your proof that the hexagram there had anything to do with a discovery made in Igboland?

Ekykool:
Seek for knowledge and you would find it. Don't close your heart to learning. Ask questions.

That very palace of Eri, Obu-Gad, was initially built with stones and clay soil. The inscription on the ground was shot with a camera and then removed before the ground was plastered with cement. It was installed in like manner to stick with the cement to the floor.

Cool story, bro. Can we see a pre-cement picture of the inscription?

Let me guess: you don't have it. Nobody has it.

Ekykool:
Finally, to answer your questions about the star of David seen on Eze Eri's clothes and many other Igbos:


In 1917 the British discovered, about 500 feet below the soil on the palace grounds a solid bronze Star of David indicating the Igbo people may have migrated from the ancient city of David. To commemorate this event, Nigerian kobo coins were minted with a Star of David on it.

LOL. It is amazing how some of you people believe things that have absolutely no proof.

1. What is the name of the lead archaeologist that made this discovery?

2. Where is the paper or group of papers published on this important discovery? Papers are always published about such discoveries. A Star of David found in what to the British of that age must have been a most unlikely site? That's huge - there should be publications; where are they?

3. Where is that solid bronze star today? Is it in a museum or a private collection? Does anyone have a picture?

4. How come all the references to the hexagram on British Colonial coins do not say anything about some bronze star that was dug up in Igboland?

5. Who told you this fib and why didn't you ask him these questions I am asking you now?

zenmaster:
see bronze serpents, the type made by Moses
Go and study

Oh yes! Look at the very staff Moses used to strike the Red Sea in front of this young man. Profound!

zenmaster:
Tell that to the Jewish Rabbis that continue to flock to Nri

Ask the old man standing beside that European-descent wannabe Jew why he didn't wear that Star of David for his coronation in 1976.

zenmaster:
But you conveniently ignore the Paleo-Hebrew writing on the floor of Obu Gad

Show me a picture of that paleo-nonsense from 1967.

Something that some prankster just arranged recently. Tah! Only fools are taken in by this.


And is that floor cement? Gad and his people were making German floors in 2000 kpiridim BC?

zenmaster:
ok
You need to study more

The same Eze Chukwuemeka-Eri that had no Star of David in 1976. Fast forward to the present day. And whoa! What a transformation --- Star of David and Hebrew inscriptions everywhere.

Elders are not supposed to tell lies o!

zenmaster:
ok
You need to study more

Ancient, obsolete,outdated, debunked book. I believe the Enugu State Library has thrown out the copy that used to be on their shelf, along with other dinosaurs.

Ezeora Chukwuemeka-Eri during his coronation in 1976. See any Star of David in sight? Neither do I.

zenmaster:
The Hebrew people are much older than David, and the star of David.

Focus. 1890s. 1890s.
Same Eze Idigo of Aguleri in the 1890s.

Again, no Star of David, anywhere.

zenmaster:
Ok
Show me ONE sentence in it about anybody NOT COMING FROM ISRAEL

Flipping troll!

Can't prove anything so you gonna just troll abi. Ngwanu.

Eze Idigo of Aguleri in the 1890s. No Star of David in sight. Just his okpensi lying about.

zenmaster:
Go and study, my brother.
Igbo amaka

You are making an ass of yourself at this point.

I have read the two volumes of this book. There is not even a sentence in it about anybody coming Israel. Find me one picture na. Bikozianu.