₦airaland Forum

danowena:
I believe this was before his death. Our sins were yet to be paid for.

you mean all He said before His death are no longer applicable and yet He commanded to teach them all I have said unto you Matt 28:20!

BobUg28:
This got me thinking if anyone could make heaven at all...

Many have and many will. Just ensure Acts 24:16

promise10:
Wow, you just made a lot of sense with the bolded response up there.

God bless you bro!

Amen, Glory to God!

0ubenji:
Lolz...yet again u just showed ur shallow understanding of subject matter...u don't just debate scriptural meanings and What they imply with one translation of the bible. That makes u reek of bigotry or ignorance.
If u're looking for "left"...go read the passage in ESV(english Standard Version), NET(new english translation) and ASV(American Standard Versions) bible Translations to mention a few. #CaseClosed

Well, why didnt you just quote from these? Why use the word in the midst of the KJV especially when the word as used in Matthew 24 is not found in 1 Thessalonians in the same version?

rexben:
Can a sheep shepherd another sheep?

Ask Jesus, He said that. Also edit Peter and Paul's epistles since you finally knew better than them!

0ubenji:
I gave u a detailed comparison of three scriptural references which were indeed prophecies and promises, u're stil askin for cross-examination of scripture with scripture, promise and prophecies..
Kindly open ur dictionary to check the meaning of words b4 u use them..
The funny thing is that u r yet to gimme any scriptural cross examination, u merely quoting various scriptures haphazardly to backup ur claims on rapture. U really have a loose perspective on this.
Not to worry, I'll help separate the RELEVANT seeds from the shaft.

Be humble enough to acknowledge that you dont understand them. Meanwhile, what you gave was a link to a site and some striving on a single word. Whither the highlighted?

0ubenji:
Yet again, u quoted a scriptural reference u got no understanding of.
Sir, that passage actually talks bou the defeat of satan. I fink I'll not give u a cheap and direct answer on this. It'll come in form of a rhetoric
U asked me. Who does satan decieve after the Millenial reign"...I guess u don't want to assume it's the saints satan decieved.
Well, verse 9 tells us how satan was defeated, so on whose behalf was satan defeated by God?
The same sinners that he must have left on earth to suffer chey?

Well, it is NOT the saints but those left behind after the Battle of Armageddon:

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:16
They were not part of the armies of the Beast (Rev 19: 19-21), but are the ones who, for the time of the Millenial reign will be free from deception because the Devil is bound. Once same is loosed, they, not the saints,will be deceived!

This lays to rest your claims of sinners being taken first before the saints!!!

0ubenji:
I never implied directly or indirectly that those that wud meet the lord are sinners. U can quote me on any part of my writing where I said so..
My point is "getting caught up". To meet the lord has nothing to do with ur idea of rapture.
Obviously u'e been speaking but not listening sinx. #Strange

Interesting, what does this imply, 2 raptures isnt it?

Noah and his family — "the good guys". The bad guys
were taken('caught up' in the flood) and the good guys were left behind!

-------------

After Sodom
and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left?

Lot and his
daughters — "the good guys". The bad guys were taken('caught up' in the fire) and
the good guys were left behind!.

And

Ii is only when the bad guys have been taken away unto judgement, then the good guys left behind will be caught up with the lord upon arrival.

0ubenji:
Hold on, sir, b4 u start doin copy and paste of some orthodox theological junk u don't understand. Do u intend to confuse readers with these mumbo-jumbo?
Let the audience learn in layman's terms. All these highly digressive perspectives of urs can't elude me. Keep that in Mind
Now, to the subject matter.

whatever.

1. Enoch's case has nothing to do with rapture...in view of the fact that ur idea of rapture is the trasnport of saints into another state. U seem to forget Enoch wasn't the only saint on earth as at when he was taken up into heaven. So are u telling me there's "selective rapture" ?...lolz

Nothing in my post suggests that. Besides, God, not me, decides if Elijah goes up and Elisha dies.

2. Abeg, give a scriptural reference that implies the transfiguration of Noah and all other saved creatures b4 the flood and another evidence in the case of lot being taken into a figure.

That came from you. If you dont understand that phrase," in a figure", consult its contextual usage here Hebrews 11:19

P.S: Counter my points in context with or without scriptural backings(as u please), but don't come[b] pasting stuffs here u obviously dint read Up b4 pressing the SUBMIT button. Remember, I know how to paste too.[/b]

Another unfortunate assumption!

rexben:
so,what was Jesus saying in John 10:1-16,I know you have an explanation for it.

Exactly what you find there. Not a contradiction to John 21:15-17!

Just as He said:
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you
John 20:21

Perfect unity, no contradiction:

The Father sends Him as the Good Shepherd to give His Life for the sheep
He sends His disciples to feed His sheep

Perfectly agrees with what Peter and Paul said!

Besides, Bible tells us Enoch was translated that he should not see death.

The word translate:

3346. metatithemi ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
carry over, change, translate
From meta and tithemi; to transfer, i.e. (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides

Similar to Elijah!

Before God destroyed the World, Noah and his were taken in a figure; before Sodom was destroyed, Lot and his were taken in a figure.

After His resurrection, Jesus ascended visibly, hence no true believer (even the dead) will be denied this hope, just as none will be denied His resurrection!

God's wrath will be poured out on the earth and its inhabitants during the GT. Since we (the Church) are delivered from wrath through Him, would not the Judge of the Earth do right?

0ubenji:
The “Rapture” being referred to in a passage in 1Thessalonians 4:16-18, where Christians are “caught up” in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” have been largely misconcieved.

Many Christians believe,
and promote, that this being “caught
up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation
sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish(as we've always assumed),
meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him
to Heaven to await the end of time.
But notice, in 1Thessalonians 4:15, Paul says that “…we who are alive,
who are left,” shall be caught up.
This is a very important
point to stress to rapture enthusiasts.
Those who are “left”
get caught up to meet the Lord.

Keep that in mind as we look
at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The "rapture" concept got their ideology from a passage in
Luke 17:22-37( the very one scholar8200 refused to read up for understandable reason)
, and a similar passage in Matthew 24:29-44, which
"strongly compares" the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and
the days of Lot.

unfortunate assumption.

Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the
days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they
ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until
the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the
coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field,
one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill,
one is taken one is left.”

----------------------------

“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right?

Jesus takes
the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!

That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages..

---------------

Well, there are however. Two problems with these "rapture” interpretation:

First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’
coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot.
Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was
left?

Noah and his family — "the good guys". The bad guys
were taken('caught up' in the flood) and the good guys were left behind!

The comparison to Noah and Lot is a reference to the sudden-ness of the destruction! Else, How about Noah? good ones taken and bad ones left?
-------------

After Sodom
and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left?

Lot and his
daughters — "the good guys". The bad guys were taken('caught up' in the fire) and
the good guys were left behind!.

And Noah?
------------------

The second problem with the dogmatic “rapture” interpretation,
has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4
says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air.

-----------------

You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left
behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth.

I dont find the word left in 1 Thessalonians 4! I hope it is not an attempt to confuse the readers as to which group exactly you are referring to?

Again, when
you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and
Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are
the ones left behind to meet Jesus.

Again I would exhort that the reader realises that Matthew 24 was an answer to 3 questions (Matthew 24:3)! Parallel verses and prophecies helps us know which is for which. Hence it will be wrong to attribute all the answers there to only one question!
------------------

And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in
Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal.

Matthew
13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed]
is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the
reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and
burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son
of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His
kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers(the bad guys), and throw them
into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their
teeth. Then the righteous(the ones that remain after the bad ones have been taken and dealt with) will shine like the sun in the
kingdom of their Father.”

This is a description of Revelation 19&20 when the false prophet, beast and armies and finally the post-Millenial reign world would be destroyed. Nothing here shows or suggests that those that will meet the Lord in the air are the sinners!



------------------------------

So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as
it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the
Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the
age(which we have translated to the rapture ideology, as evident in these sermon and xtian films).

Matthew 25 shows how the wise virgins were taken and the others left behind, when the Bridegroom came! Not the other way round! Besides, we know Jesus'Second coming will be to reign as a King with the Saints, not as a Bride Groom( Revelation 19:7-9 shows that there will be a Marriage Supper of the Lamb and this has NO CONNECTION with the Millenial reign!) meaning Matthew 25 depicts the Rapture!

The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are
the evildoers. The angels will take them and toss them
into the furnace of fire(somewhere else). So, the "rapture ideology" got it
wrong. The ones taken are not the good
guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind
are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet
Jesus in the air(to go nowhere actually) at His Second Coming, when He will bring all
of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new
Heaven and a new earth.

Here, folks, is a mixture that is extra-scriptural!!!

This is the scenario you are painting:
Jesus comes, sinners get caught up and tossed into hell!(who then are the ones satan deceives after millenial reign?)
Saints watch on (hands on head!) and suddenly get caught up too!!!(
Saints that are caught up and Jesus now descend together!!(to reign after 1000 years then why did Paul say the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death?)

This is wrong!!!!!!!!

First, realise that the Second Coming would bring deliverance to Israel from the antichrist and then Jesus and the saints reign. However, even during this time, there will still be people that are sinners (Zechariah 14:16). They are the ones that the devil, after he is loosed (Revelation 20) will go and deceive for the battle of Gog and Magog!

Ii is only when the bad guys have been taken away unto judgement, then the good guys left behind will be caught up with the lord upon arrival.

Caught up on arrival, not in the air? Then just who does satan deceive after the Millenial reign? Revelation 20:7-10)

There's nothing like "the good guys will vanish or get caught up, then the bad guys remain to suffer whatever stuff with the destruction of the earth". That is a misnomer, which in itself nullifies the ideology of rapture, to say, it's not anywhere in the bible.



In other words, there will be no Rapture like the ones you have always believed. The rapture ideology teach the
opposite of what Scripture actually says.


Cc: Scholar8200, honourhim

I perceive you dont understand that Israel has not been eternally cast off and that they have their part in eschatology and many prophecies that will still be fulfilled, prophecies and promises that do not concern the Church in their substance! read Daniel 7-12, Zechariah 12-14 and Revelations 19-22
--------------------------

You both should educate urselves by visiting the link below which has various bible translations of the Luke 17:22-37 and Matthew 24:29-44 where the "rapture" ideology actually came from. 1thessalonians 4:16-18 only buttress the idea, emphasizing on who are "left behind" after the judgment of the bad guys have taken place. Toggle different translations as u please.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+17:22-37

I prefer a cross examination of Scripture with Scripture, promise and prophecies! Not a straining at words to extract self-serving albeit scripture-contradicting meanings!

Jeel:
Woww! brilliant contribution

Glory to God!

Sinkills:
We often hear people shout "God is good!" The natural response is "all the time!". There is no arguing the fact that God is an embodiment of goodness. It is His goodness that made Him send His only begotten Son to die for sinful mankind. It is His goodness that has kept each of us alive till today. It is as a result of His goodness to all, that both the righteous and sinners are enjoying His provisions of air, rain, sunshine good health and other things money cannot buy. However, God's goodness is not all the time for sinners and backsliders who refuse to come back to Him in repentance. He will judge and punish them. Some start tasting it here. Others in eternity. But for you who will humbly listen to and do His will, His goodness will be forever in your life and family now and in eternity in Jesus' name, Amen.

GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME! Would He then be good if He failed to judge the wicked?

Of course, in order to have a conscience void of offence toward God and toward men!

Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Matthew 5:23,24

If we dont do this, Jesus said we are building on sand!

honourhim:
Young man present your case and stop blabbing. U opened a thread and it's left for you to give details of the points you raised.

I wonder!

0ubenji:
Oh..well..just what I needed to know: you aint well read on the concept of "rapture"..u merely presented a cliched bible reference and that's it.
I dint tell u to read my mind, being well read on a subject as vast as dis is evidential when u cud atleast provide anoda scriptural reference either similar in meaning or that complements it. If I tell u adultery is not a sin now, you'll surely bombard me with countless biblical references to tackle me. How is it u come to a debate with a single point(that even ur opponent knows), which U tend to over-emphasize til it is stripped-off of relevant meaning.
Aii..dat aside...I'd lend a helping hand, sinx that 1Thessalonians 4 is wah u got.
Luke 17:22-37.
Read(and understand) that and decipher whether it talks bou the rapture or not., before I proceed.

Still waiting for your explanation on 1 Thessalonian 4:13-17!

MrPresident1:
Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Jesus is described as the son of a carpenter to show that he descended from the highest level of nobility, and also that he had the best kind of education, the one reserved for the ruling class from which he descended. And Jesus Christ descended from the House of David, the house of David is the ruling class in Israel

At a time when it made no difference per se! Else, Joseph wouldnt need to flee from place to place when Herod etc did what they did. Besides,

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
carpenter.
From the base of timoria; an artificer (as producer of fabrics), i.e. (specially), a craftsman in wood -- carpenter.

Hence carpenter has NOTHING to do with nobility at that time! Besides, your claims to best of education is debunked by this:

And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

John 7:15

0ubenji:
This is the very strong point that we xtians have held onto NARROWLY. Don't get me wrong, I dint dispute the meaning of this passage, but most of us av refused to look at d big picture somehow.

What meaning are you not disputing?

Despite the fact that u've refused to consider my perspective at all on this delicate but technical passage that talks bou the rapture.
However, there r 2 or more bible references that are akin to this. Kindly quote them here(if u can) and make some comparison(in context) to 1 Thesalonians 4:16-18 that u pasted above. We r slowly attempting a close examination of the big picture now.

I cannot read your mind, you quote the passages you are referring to!

#YouAreEntitled2UrOpinion

Rather, I have quoted a Bible passage that is clear enough, not opinions!

0ubenji:
Aii..the whole concept that the "good ones" are gonna be "raptured" and the "bad ones" left behind, to be subjected to whatever suffering that follows, is totally false.
Enuf videos, movies and sermon circulating this misunderstood concept made it viral.
That's it.. U don't av to be interested in the article. I understand. Bigotry is not easy to deal with, when religion is involved.

Now consider this in the light of this and kindly show me what there underscores your position:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to [size=13pt]meet the Lord in the air[/size]: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thesalonians 4:16-18
This was to happen only to those in Christ.

0ubenji:
Th piece I'm talking bou also examined 1thessalonians 4 in detail emphasizing on something u missed in that passage. Thrz an angle of understandin to that passage that eludes most peeps. That's my point

Kindly point it out since you have read the article.

0ubenji:
I like u broda...it Interests me to see som1 come 4ward with an opposing view. It means we both or one of us will surely learn.
Erm, so do u mind I dish u spicy piece that supports my "no rapture"(as we think) theory in the bible?
It's obvious u only read the bible passage u quoted above, but u dint understand it in context.

P.S: if u don't exactly av some patience(at dis time) to read
and understand a sort of long, but time-worthy write-up
detailing why what we understand as "rapture" aint in the
bible. To save ourselves some productive time; Kindly don't
Request it from me. Tnx

Just explain the text in 1Thessalonians 4 viz a viz other parallel verses from Scripture that appear to support your view. However, note that 1 Thess talks about meeting the Lord in the air.

HCpaul, even science/scientific method does not support that sort of sweeping generalisation contained in your opening paragraph! Sorry but it smacks off ignorance! It appears to be an attempt at feeding one of the inner pillars of atheism - conceitedness.

0ubenji:
ADAM & EVE

Contrary to popular belief, Adam and Eve were expelled
from Eden not because they ate the forbidden fruit of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil, but in order to prevent
them from eating from the tree of life (both forbidden trees
are in Genesis 2:9) which would have made them eternal.
God doesn’t like competition! Here is the verse (Genesis
3:22-23): “And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us,
knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put
forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and
live for ever. [23] And the Lord God sent him out of the
paradise of pleasure, to till the earth from which he was
taken.”

That is Love in display!!!!! If Adam and Eve had taken from that tree after the fall, there would be NO possibility of Redemption! They would have sealed their fate, hence God Who loved them prevented that from happening! Perfect Love you cant resist!!!

----------------------

JONAH WAS NOT SWALLOWED UP BY A WHALE


We all know the tale of Jonah and the whale(since we were kids)… but how well
do we know it?
Well enough to know that he wasn’t eaten by
a whale? It was no mammal that ate Jonah – it was a huge
fish – though its type is not mentioned. Of course, I am
presuming that any smart xtian reading this list would wanna question my assertion.

Well, here is the eye opener: the book of jonah recorded it was a fish(tho of an unmentioned type). This confusing "whale" term came from the book of Matthew 12 vs 40 where it was used with reference to that story. The bone of contention here is the translation errors involved.

Yet again, I know some religious fanatic reading this( the types that would refuse to fault the bible for anything) would still disagree, in an attempt to debate that both bible references mean the same thing.
Just chill, Sir/Ma, A whale is not a fish. #Q.E.D

But it is an acquatic animal! Besides, this shows the original- http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/12-40.htm. Before you scream, remember they were translating,not transliterating.
----------------

THERE's NO SUCH THING AS RAPTURE

The “Rapture” is not in the Bible! Despite being believed by a
large number of christians (many of whom also believe
that only that , which is in the Bible can be true; Yea rite! "Rapture" aint in the bible.)

it was actually invented in the 1600s by one Cotton Mather –
otherwise famous for murdering women by strangling them
to death (by hanging) in the Salem witch trials. The term in
the Bible commonly mistranslated to the word “rapture”
actually comes from the Greek ἁρπάζω (harpazo) which
actually means “caught up” or “taken away” and it refers to
one person only (Philip).

----------------

P.S: Opposing views are welcomed. Atleast open your bible and read thoroughly(and understand in context) before coming forward with a debate.

Read 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-17 There the rapture is described. Call it any name, that is the description. Just like some call it communion, holy communion, sacrament,Lord's supper but still all refer to the same thing!

AmenRa1:

Jesus, in all his “God incarnate” wisdom, contradicts himself:
[b]
Jesus consistently contradicts himself concerning his Godly status. “I and my father are one.” (John 14:28) Also see Philippians 2:5-6 Those verses lead us to believe that he is a part of the trinity and equal to his father being a manifestation of him. Yet, Jesus also made many statements that deny he is the perfect men, much less God incarnate. Take the following for example: “Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God” (Matthew 19:17). “My father if greater then I.” (John 14:28) Also see Matthew 24:26 Clearly, Jesus is denouncing the possibility of him being the Messiah in those three verses.

Jesus said, “whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matthew 5:22). Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as Matthew 23:17-19 and Luke 11:40 & 12:20 show. Clearly Jesus should be in danger of hell too?

Does Jesus support peace, or war? Matthew 5:39 “Resist not evil, but whoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Also note Matthew 6:38-42 & 26:52 where Jesus teaches non-resistance, Non-violence. Now read (Luke 22:36-37) Where Jesus commands people to take arms for a coming conflict. (John 2:15) Jesus uses a whip to physically drive people out of the temple.

Matthew 15:24 Jesus said, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of lsrael,”. This would of course mean that he is here only to save the Jews. The scriptures repeatedly back up this notion that Christ is savior to the Jews and not the gentiles (see Romans 16:17, Revelations 14:3-4 & John 10). The contradiction lies in what Jesus later tells his followers: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations” (Matthew 28:19).

Can we hate our kindred? Luke 14:26 Jesus says “If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brother, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he can not be my disciple.” John 3:15 “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer.” Also see Ephesians 6:22, 5:25, & Matthew 15:4

Even many of the staunchest defenders of Jesus admit that his comment in Matthew 10:34 (“I came not to send peace but a sword”) contradicts verses such as Matthew 26:52 (“Put up again thy sword into his place: for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword”). [/b]

I should expect you to misunderstand these.

Staunchest defenders of Jesus ! Mention their names!

Anyway Matthew verse 35-37 describes what 34 meant!

AmenRa1:
[b]
In Luke 23:43 Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” This obviously has to be false, for Jesus was supposed to lay dead in the tomb for three days following his crucifixion.

This is what happens when we venture into that of which we have no knowledge. Paradise and Hell are separated by a big gulf. After death, Jesus went to both.

Jesus says : “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy” (Matthew 5:43). This statement does not exist in the OT either. In fact, Proverbs 24:17 says, “Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth…”

Did Jesus quote the commandments or refer to a statement popular to the pharisees who were the religious leaders of His day? Mark 7 gives another such thrashing out of their erroneous additions!

Jesus is reported to say: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it” (Luke 16:16). Certainly every man is not pressing to enter the kingdom of God. The very fact that I am an atheist (one third of the world’s population does not believe in a god) proves this verse to be false.

Jesus clearly knew of Judas and the jews that forsook Him when He said this, what then? Not every one presses according to knowledge!

“Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?” (Matthew 12:5) Nowhere does the OT state that the priests in the temple profaned the Sabbath and were considered blameless.

*sighs deeply* They worked on the sabbath contrary to the laws of the Sabbath of no work! Mr, face your thread on some high sounding nothings!

“Yea; have ye never read, ‘Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise'” (Matthew 21:16). Jesus is quoting Psalm 8:2, which says, “Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies…”. “Perfect praise” has little to do with “ordaining strength because of thine enemies.” Another misquotation!

Indeed, praise is where our strength lies, the Wall of Jericho fell at the sound of praise/triumph! Implication? Jesus, the Teacher come from God, was here quoting that verse in application.[/b]

“But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him” (Mark 9:13). There are no prophecies in the OT of things that were to happen to Elijah.
]

The highlighted was just a personal commentary see Matthew 17:12

AmenRa1:
Statements Jesus Made Which Are False:
[b]Jesus in John 14:12 & Mark 16:17-18 said: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth in me, the works that I do shall he also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” This implies that Jesus’ true followers should be able to routinely perform the following tricks:
1) cast out devils
2) speak in tongues
3) take up serpents
4) drink poisons without harm, and
5) cure the sick by touching them and MANY other of Jesus’ “works”. Curiously I have yet to see a Christian that can do any of the above on demand.

Even Jesus did not do them on demand! Ask Herod Luke 23:8 and the Pharisees who asked for a sign!

In John 14:13-14 Jesus stated: “And whatsoever ye ask in my name I do, that the Father may be glorified in the son. If ye ask any thing in my name, I will do it.” In reality, millions of people have made millions of requests in Jesus’ name and failed to receive satisfaction. This promise or prophecy has failed completely.

This is no ' close your eyes,make a wish' issue! Did you notice the phrase, "In My Name"? Do you know the implication? Study that phrase in John.(Jesus came in The Father's Name, what does this imply?)

Paul says Christianity lives or dies on the Resurrection (1 Corinthian 15:14-17). Yet Jesus said in Matthew 12:40 that he would be buried three days and three nights as Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights. Friday afternoon to early Sunday morning is only one and a half days, so he could not have been the messiah by his own and Paul’s admission.

In Jewish parlance morning is counted as a full day. That is why though Esther commanded a 3 days and 3 nights fast before approaching the king for her people, she went to him on the third day (not third night) hence the audience there knew perfectly what He meant.

Jesus’ prophecy in John 13:38 (“The cock shall not crow, till thou [Peter] hast denied me three times”) is false. Mark 14:66-68 shows the cock crowed after the first denial, not the third.

Irrelevant to the substance and purpose of the Gospels.

In Mark 10:19 Jesus said: “Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.” Jesus needs to re-read the Ten Commandments. There is no Old Testament commandment against defrauding. The only relevant statement about defrauding is in Leviticus 19:13 , which says : “Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor.” This is an OT law, but is not listed with the Ten Commandments. Surely, if Jesus was god incarnate he would know the commandments.

And where did Jesus indicate He was quoting the 10 commandments? Read the Pentateuch and see that there were MANY commandments apart from the ones Moses received called the Ten commandments!

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven” (John 3:13). If Jesus is in heaven, how can he be down on earth speaking? Moreover, according to 2 Kings 2:11 (“and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven”) Jesus was not the only person to ascend into heaven, nor was he the first. Elijah preceded him and apparently Enoch did also (“And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him”–Genesis 5:24). [/b]

Do search NL, this matter has been over thrashed.

AmenRa1:

“Bethlehem Ephratah” in Micah 5:2 refers not to a town, but to a clan: the clan of Bethlehem, who was the son of Caleb’s second wife, Ephrathah (1 Chronicles 2:18, 2:50-52 & 4:4).

The prophecy (if that is what it is) does not refer to the Messiah, but rather to a military leader, as can be seen from Micah 5:6. This leader is supposed to defeat the Assyrians, which, of course, Jesus never did. It should also be noted that Matthew altered the text of Micah 5:2 by saying: “And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah” rather than “Bethlehem Ephratah” as is said in Micah 5:2. He did this, intentionally no doubt, to make this verse appear to refer to the town of Bethlehem rather than the family clan.

Indeed, Matthew is on Nairaland isnt it? and his audience where 21st centuries ignoramuses as far as history is concerned, am i right?

For one writing to a jewish audience, no alterations would be attempted because the audience were unlike us, more knowledgeable about these things.

AmenRa1:

Prophecies Christians Use to Verify Jesus as the Messiah, Yet Clearly Fail: [b]

The gospels (especially Matthew 21:4 and John 12:14-15) claim that Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9. But the next few verses (Zechariah 9:10-13) show that the person referred to in this verse is a military king that would rule “from sea to sea”. Since Jesus had neither an army nor a kingdom, he could not have fulfilled this prophecy.

Indeed He would reign at His second coming. Revelations 20 and Zechariah 13,14 says more on this.
First His death prophesied in Daniel 9/Isaiah 53 had to be fulfilled.

Matthew (Matthew 2:17-18) quotes Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:15), claiming that it was a prophecy of King Herod’s alleged slaughter of the children in and around Bethlehem after the birth of Jesus. But this passage refers to the Babylonian captivity, as is clear by reading the next two verses (Jeremiah 31:16-17), and, thus, has nothing to do with Herod’s massacre.

Meaning you dont understand the manner of prophesy fulfillment. We have the Types before the Substance. This is why we have passages were the Messiah was described variously as David or the Son of David.

John 19:33 says that during Jesus’ crucifixion, the soldiers didn’t break his legs because he was already dead. Verse John 19:36 claims that this fulfilled a prophecy: “Not a bone of him shall be broken.” But there is no such prophecy. It is sometimes said that the prophecy appears in Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12 & Psalm 34:20. This is not correct. Exodus 12:46 & Numbers 9:12 are not prophecies, they are commandments. The Israelites are told not to break the bones of the Passover lamb, and this is all it is about. And Psalm 34:20 seems to refer to righteous people in general (see verse Psalm 34:19, where a plural is used), not to make a prophecy about a specific person.

The Passover pointed to Him. Passover was the Type, He is the Substance! Clearly, you have ventured to the wrong area!

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.” Hosea 11:1. Matthew (Matthew 2:15) claims that the flight of Jesus’ family to Egypt is a fulfillment of this verse. But Hosea 11:1 is not a prophecy at all. It is a reference to the Hebrew exodus from Egypt and has nothing to do with Jesus. Matthew tries to hide this fact by quoting only the last part of the verse (“Out of Egypt I have called my son”).

It is a height of conceitedness interpreting a Book Whose Author you know NOTHING about!

“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” Micah 5:2 The gospel of Matthew (Matthew 2:5-6) claims that Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem fulfils this prophecy. But this is unlikely for two reasons.
[/b]

Jesus was born in Bethlehem!

AmenRa1:
Jesus is a False Messiah [b]
According to Jesus’ admissions, as well as the Bible’s prophecies, Jesus of Nazareth could not have been the Messiah. This of course, would invalidate Christianity as we know it.

Prophecies to Identify the Messiah, Which Jesus Does Not Fulfill:

Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus (the messiah) would be called Immanuel, which means “God with us.” Yet no one, not even his parents, call him Immanuel at any point in the bible.

Indeed, we must look for a Messiah with the compound name - Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, The Everlasting Father!Isaiah 9:6
Mr, you know nothing about what you are writing!

The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30). Yet, how could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth. Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.

and Mary was a biological descendant of Nathan, David's son!

Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Yet there is no mention of this prophecy being fulfilled in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus, hence this is another Messiah prophecy not fulfilled. [/b]

The child spoken of in that vs 16 is the one that was Isaiah's son connected to both kings in the beginning of the chapter:
Then said the Lord unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;
v3

AmenRa1:

I didnt wanted to start this thread with this. But for the sake of Anas09 And other Christians who refer to themself as "Christ Like" meaning jesus like which is wrong I find it Rather funny So M Gonna use this first section to educate u on what "christ" means!!


So now u get the point christ is not a name but a title meaning the messiah so saying "christlike" is Invalid Why?? Cause they are many christ(messiah) in the Bible!! so u should quit refrane from using that cause it could mean different things to different people! Saying "Christ like" is Like saying "Messiah like"

We know this. To be Christ-like means to live after the Likeness of Jesus the Christ!

Godhelect:
This Question Goes To Everybody(both Muslim And Christian)....
Where Was Jesus(isa)when John The Baptist Was Preaching The Gospel?

He was among the crowd that came to John but He needed no baptism.