₦airaland Forum

tempem:
John 17:3 sheds light, bro..

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
There is one true God.
Notice what apostle Paul said here too:
1 Corinthians 8:6:
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

So, I agree with these that there is just one Almighty God.
Cc: Scholar8200.

Tempem, Who is the Alpha and Omega?

tempem:
Great, don't forget am not arguing out the fact that Jesus isn't a God. The bible said that.

bro, pls where did your Bible say He is 'a' God? Mine tells me He is The Mighty God, the Alpha and Omega (Revelations 22:13)

But, what am seeing from the Scripture is that, there is a higher God other than Jesus.
Look at what John 17:3 says: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Note. Jesus addressed someone as the only true God, later, he mentioned that he was sent by that true God.

That was spoken after the Word had bben made flesh and took on Him the form of a Servant hence that manner of speaking befits that temporary condescension.

tempem:
If there is a saperate true God, that means the title of that true God will be Almighty.
And the one lesser than the only true God, will be mighty.

Is that right?

Wrong Bro

Who is this King of glory?
The Lord strong and mighty,
the Lord mighty in battle.
Psalm 24:8

The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken,
and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
Psalm 50:1

The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty;
he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy;
he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing
Zephaniah 3:17

tempem:
Okay, fine!

That place, says Of "God" and "Jesus". And that shows that Jesus isn't the true God, but he came to declare the true God we can't see, right?

He isnt the true God yet Isaiah 9:6 was Inspired by His Spirit? Was He lying? Or was it mere flattery?

tempem:
Am not disputing the fact that Jesus is being referred to as a mighty God.
At least, there are many Lords and God, but there should be one true God.

And how many of them did God approve of like He did in Isaiah 9:6?

But what am concerned about is this,
Is Jesus the only true God?

Your answer is in John 1:1,18.

tempem:
Noted, bro.
Maybe Scholar8200 will check this below.
The use of "God" in John 1:1, don't you think it doesn't harmonize with John 1:18?
Read it carefully.

Then if "god" was used, don't you think that sure fits in what's in John 1:18?

Cc: Scholar8200.

The use of God fits in in John 1:18! Just as the usage in Isaiah 9:6 agrees with both in John 1:1,18. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word was with God not as a lesser god but as Proverbs 8 puts it:

then I was by him{John 1:1 recalls}, as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Proverbs 8:30

This expresses Oneness and Unity.

Note that clause here as it denotes equality:
Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul
Acts 13:1

Vs 18 exposes the relationship between the Word and God viz Father and Son.

Jesus expresses all of the above (not as an errand god to reveal God) but in tandem with the tenor of the above:

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them
John 17:5,10

HE didnt say the glory I had FROM Thee but WITH Thee! Besides, vs 10 underscores the preceding verses that shows the Unity and Oneness.

joyandfaith:
(translated from the 4th-century Latin Vulgate)
1808 "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in An Improved Version, Upon the Basis of
Archbishop Newcome ’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text , London.
1822 "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
1829 "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
1863 "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation Of The New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
1864 "the LOGOS was God, This was in the Beginning with God" – A New Emphatic Version (right hand column)
1864 "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
1867 "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
1879 "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
1885 "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary On The Holy Bible ( R. Young, 1885)
1911 "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
1935 "and the Word was divine" – The Bible — An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
1955 "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield , Aberdeen.
1956 "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation [15]
1958 "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
1962, 1979 "'the word was God.' Or, more literally, 'God was the word.'" – The Four Gospels and the Revelation (R. Lattimore, 1979)
1966, 2001 "...and he was the same as God" – The Good News Bible
1970, 1989 "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible
1975 " and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word " – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1975 "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
1978 "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
1993 "The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one." - The Message , by Eugene H. Peterson .

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The mighty God,...
Isaiah 9:6

This verse alone refutes all those 'translations' that renders it as god!

At the time of the early church when the Epistles were written, Christians were being persecuted etc Yet I am yet to find ANY reference to Peter , James (he was even killed) and John or Paul, confronting Caesar! In fact in the height of the suffering, here's how far they went:

First of all, I ask you to pray much for all men and to give thanks for them. 2 Pray for kings and all others who are in power over us so we might live quiet God-like lives in peace.
1 Timothy 2:1,2


Every person must obey the leaders of the land. There is no power given but from God, and all leaders are allowed by God. 2 The person who does not obey the leaders of the land is working against what God has done. Anyone who does that will be punished.

3 Those who do right do not have to be afraid of the leaders. Those who do wrong are afraid of them. Do you want to be free from fear of them? Then do what is right. You will be respected instead. 4 Leaders are God’s servants to help you. If you do wrong, you should be afraid. They have the power to punish you. They work for God. They do what God wants done to those who do wrong.

5 You must obey the leaders of the land, not only to keep from God’s anger, but so your own heart will have peace. 6 It is right for you to pay taxes because the leaders of the land are servants for God who care for these things. 7 Pay taxes to whom taxes are to be paid. Be afraid of those you should fear. Respect those you should respect.
Romans 13:1-7

Obey the head leader of the country and all other leaders over you. This pleases the Lord. 14 Obey the men who work for them. God sends them to punish those who do wrong and to show respect to those who do right. 15 This is what God wants.
1 Peter 2:13-15a


Hence, expecting Pastors to become social critics and activists is alien to the NT. If you dont agree, kindly bring up the verses that support your expectation.

TrajansKong:
God is a loving God indeed!!

How could he be a just God without torturing humans eternally for their wrong choices!! He did all he could (as God! ) yet they turned away from him. What else but to burn them forever and ever and ever without remission!

Have you [b]no[/b]idea how insanely sadistic you sound

White Jesus has stripped you of all empathy, my broda.

I can just imagine you sitting back in heaven laughing at their torment like this: http://soundbible.com/200-Evil-Laugh.html

ok.

dorox:

Below are some of the issues I have with the answer you gave. I hope you will find time to addres them.

Since we were not consulted before being made alive, should we as sentient beings not be given the choice to seize to exist if we happen not to like the gift of life?

We were not there in existence to be consulted. However, we can choose what course we'll follow after we are born.

If God is just, then how can one justify an everlasting torture for the sins of a few years?

Since God is just, on what grounds should He deny you the consequence of the path you chose? That is the logic behind it all.

If life is a gift from God, why can God not take back His gift from those that choose to misuse it instead of just watching them burn forever?

God's design of man is higher than that of animals. Man was created by an Immortal God for an immortal purpose. Yes the fall has made man unable to serve that purpose, yet Jesus is come to once again make that purpose possible for all who believe in Him.

However, nothing erases/alters that part of immortality.

Let me point this out, God is a Spirit and is Immortal (He can NEVER cease to exist). Man too, is immortal and though he lives in a flesh, he may leave same but does not cease to exist.

If there can be no end to the sufferings of those in hell or hope of redemption, then what other purpose doest it serve other than making God to appear as saddistic monster?

Rather, the place was created for the ones that could not be redeemed - the devil & his angels. But on what grounds would you expect God to exempt those who choose to follow the devil from this destination and still be a Just God? Especially when all that could be done was done to make them turn from following the devil but they rebelled thinking sin was sweet?

lordnicklaus:
Hey friend!!! The Lake of fire is a symbol of eternal death and not eternal torment. The judgement passed will be once and for all and not forever.


" And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" - Revelations 20:14.

How come hell is thrown into hell? The first hell is the grave and the lake of fire stands for the second death which is eternal. The death we all die now is the first death.

This is why I said to always consider other passages. Does Revelation 14:10,11 sound symbolic? If you consider Revelations 20:10, the devil will join the beast and false prophet in the same place after the latter has been there for 1000 years! What then?

lordnicklaus:
@op. There is no mention of a burning hell in the oldest extant manuscripts of bible text.

Infact, the concept was a later addition.


"If your hand offends you, cut it off it is better to enter into life maimed than having two hands and going into hell, into unquencheable fire. Where their worms do not die and the fire is unquenched.
And if your foot is an offence to you, cut it off it is better to enter into life as a crippled than having two feet and thrown into hell, into fire that is unquenched. Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.
If your eye offends you, pluck it out. It is better that you enter into God's kingdom with one eye, than having two eyes and thrown into hell fire. Where their worm does not die and the fire is unquenched." - Mark 9:43-48



The above verse can not be found in the oldest text of Mark. It was a later addition in the text.

These texts were then found out to be spurious......

And Revelations 20:15 too was an addition Before making claims, weigh it against the backdrop of other passages.

dorox:
How is hell a just punishment for sin? You can start by answering the questions i asked the op.

I believe it is more a case of landing in the destination of a path a person chose to follow. Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels.
I didnt see you asking op any questions.

goodforsomthing:
I have been thinking about this how will a loving father feel seeing his children burning in fire forever,as a human being we can't let that happen to our children. God is our father and not just father but a loving father,please I need your views on this issue.

God is a loving Father indeed. But right from Genesis Abraham(and other men{I can prove this}) realised that He was also the Judge of the Whole Earth Who, the average man expects,would always do right and Justice.

Hence, if we rebel against all warnings and reject His offer of salvation, follow the devil and end in the latter's destination, do we still blame God?

Or do we expect that He ought to deny us the consequences of our decisions even after we spurned all pleadings/warnings (that came in love) to do the right?



SermonIndex.net
Page Liked · July 6 ·

“Beware of manufacturing a God of your own: a God who is all mercy, but not just; a God who is all love, but not holy.” - J.C. Ryle #beware #god #manufacturing

tempem:
Haven't people seen God( Jesus)?

I believe you speak in reference to the highlighted below

tempem:
Let's check further, this time around, we will be journeying down to John 1: 18 it reads: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Now what does this mean?
Which other God is John talking about? Who declared God?
Have people not seen God?
What's incorrect about Kjv rendering here?

*Note, if the holy spirit would make us understand something, it should be in line what's written in the Holy Book and not totally out of it.

Well the passage makes it clear that The So has revealed the Father!Reference to John 14:9,10

Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say on My own authority and of My own accord; but the Father Who lives continually in Me does the ([a]His) works (His own miracles, deeds of power).

For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,...
Isaiah 9:6

There you have it, straight from the Father! The Son spoken of in John 1:18 is here called the Mighty God by the Father Himself!

tempem:
[color=black]Let's check further, this time around, we will be journeying down to John 1: 18 it reads: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Now what does this mean?
Which other God is John talking about? Who declared God?
Have people not seen God?
What's incorrect about Kjv rendering here?

*Note, if the holy spirit would make us understand something, it should be in line what's written in the Holy Book and not totally out of it.[/color]

Op, a quick one:

1. Does God send the sinner to hell as an act of Divine fiat or is it the consequence of the choices the sinner made?

Now, alfarouq, are you aware that David was not the author of the 150 psalms? And that he authored just 73 of them? Other authors include Moses, Asaph etc. I used the word authored to show that the people mentioned were the ones inspired.

1.Why were the other authors not mentioned as part of those that received the Psalms?Especially considering the fact that David did not author up to half of the Psalms!

2. Since David wrote Psalm 38 & 51, why then do some muslims deny that David ever did any wrong doing?

The discourse below was a question I asked and the answer given by alfarouq. However, I could not continue because the thread was moved to the Islamic section. Hence I copied it here so that the respondent (and others who may want to join in) can bring their input.




Scholar8200:
alfarouq, pls answer, according to the Quran, who did God give the Psalms?

alfarouq:
One of the divine Books that Allah (Glory be to Him) revealed, which contains light and guidance, is the Zaboor (Psalms). The Zaboor is a Book of God which He (Glory be to Him) revealed to Prophet Dawood (David). Allah (Glory be to Him) has said in the Holy Quran, (وأتينا داود زبورا) “Wa atayna Dawood Zaboora” (And to David we gave the Psalms) [4:163] So what is the Zaboor (Psalms)? How does it look like? And where can we find it?



As we mentioned, the Psalms is a Book from God which He (Glory be to Him) revealed to His Prophet David (Peace be upon Him). As for how this book looks like, it is divided into parts or chapters referred to as “Mazameer” [single tense is Mazmoor (Psalm)]. Each Mazmoor (Psalm) is designated a number, beginning at one and ending at 150. As for why these chapters were named Mazameer (Psalms), it is because Prophet David (Peace be upon Him) used to intone the Mazameer (Psalms) in a regulated tone and in a clear and beautiful voice that was filled with sorrow, while he was weeping out of humility. The mountains and birds used to recite Tasbeeh (glorification) and submit to Allah (Glory be to Him) along with him, as Allah (Glory be to Him) states in the Quran:

(ولقد أتينا داود منا فضلً يا جبال أوبي معه والطير وألنا له الحديد) “Wa laqad atayna Dawood menna fadlan ya jebaal aweby ma’aho wal tayr wa Alana laho al hadeed” (We endowed David with blessings from us: ‘O mountains, submit with him, and you too, O birds.’ We softened the iron for him.) [34:10] He (Glory be to Him) also said, إنا سخرنا الجبال معه يُسبحن بالعشي والإشراق. والطير محشورة كلٌ له أوابُ) (“Inna sakharna al jebaal ma’aho yosabehna bil ashey wal eshraaq. Wal tayr mahshooraton kolon laho awaab” (We committed the mountains in his service, glorifying with him night and day. Also the birds were committed to serve him; all were obedient to him.” [38:18-19]

As for the Zaboor (Psalms), it composed of a collection of prayers, supplications, invocation, in addition to wisdom, admonition, teachings, glorification, veneration, and grateful praise to Allah (Glory be to Him). It also mentions and enumerates His signs and bounties, as well as containing some stories of past events and prophecies to come. As is the tradition of divine inspirations in every Book, these prophecies are not direct and they are mysterious and vague to a certain degree. They take the form of hints, clues, pointers, metaphors, and allegories. It often requires a lot of analysis, thought, comprehension, intelligence, religious, historical, and common knowledge in order to fully understand these prophecies and make correct deductions from them. This applies to all the prophecies of divine revelations. It is not permissible to simply imitate and copy others without recognition, deep understanding, and study that is based on the intellect, knowledge, and logical reasoning. If you successfully analyze a prophecy and reach the correct conclusion, if the prophecy was already fulfilled in the past, this should increase your faith in Allah (Glory be to Him), His Messengers, His Revelations, and the Day of Judgment. This will be a great blessing from Allah (Glory be to Him) upon you. On the other hand, if the prophecy was not fulfilled until now, then you are waiting and anticipating its occurrence during the days of your life. And if the prophecy does take place while you are alive and you were able to recognize and believe in it, then you have surely attained a great bounty from Allah (Glory be to Him) that is unlimited. However, if you do not live long enough to see the fulfillment of that prophecy, then you will attain the reward of those who are waiting and anticipating the fulfillment of the prophecies, and you will be among those who believed in the unseen.

AllIDoIsWin:
thanks for your response. Enoch and Elijah are the exception rather than the rule when it comes to Adamic sin. Okay, let me ask this question, why do we die? when God created Adam and Eve, was it his intention for Adam and his descendants to die?

No, death was just a result of the fall of man. Note the uniqueness of the man that fell, Adam. He was to be the prototype of others hence his fall and subjection to corruption were transferred to the others. However, the Second Man (the Last Adam) 1 corinth 15:45,47 has come to
-bear the consequences of the fall of the first, and
- deliver all that believe on Him from those consequences by His Life.

Why then do Believers still die?
Scripture reveals that God has a time frame when the fullness of all that Jesus did will be revealed. Daniel 9:24-27 shows this. That is why it is written that the last enemy that will be destroyed is death 1Corinth 15:26, Revelations 20 :12-15 proves this.

i do not understand your second point clearly, pls elucidate.

That passage shows that as man by the fall became a servant of corruption, same happened to the animals. And when man shall finally be liberated, they also will be liberated.

I would readily agree to the claim that babies are amoral, if you can back it up properly. but what about 2 year olds? they aren't babies, you see them do something wrong and then run away when you try to scold them. they're intelligent enough for that I think but i doubt if they're mentally developed enough to grasp the concept of asking for forgiveness.

11 (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;
Romans 9:11
Note the highlighted and the reference to deeds not nature.


That's because you watch as an assessor. They do not discern these things. Though after doing an act, they learn to note your reactions and their instinct records what might happen and what to do to avoid pain of being spanked.

about no pre-existence, let me ask, where then do we come from.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Eccl 12:7
Shows where we came from and where we head for judgement Hebrews 9:27 after death.

how can there be an after-life, yet no before-life. like i mentioned earlier, why should i go through an afterlife when i had no say in how i came into being.

Well, that's how it is and is immutable!

I'm just really concerned, i suffered the loss of a close relative and it has just set me off.

Very sorry for that! May God give you the fortitude to bear the loss.

i have prayed enough times, asking for forgiveness of sin, salvation, sanctification and baptism of the holy spirit. but it just hasn't worked for me. i still need more help and clarification on this.

In seeking God for these and other gifts of grace, seeking should start from the word. When this starts, faith that cannot be denied comes and underpins efforts in prayer!

teelaw4life:
I guess it's been coming. Having been raised as a christian, i have accepted the religion without qualms early on, but as i grew older and reflected more on the whole purpose of a person's life, my scepticism deepened. Of great interest to me is the issue of life and death and christianity's take on it. I mean some things just don't add up or make proper sense to me.
I'll begin by highlighting some some of these things from a biblical angle.

1) Through Adam sin came into the world: by virtue of this, I'm made to understand that whatever predicament i face here on earth is as a result of some inherited sin i know nothing about which happened years ago. I won't elucidate further on this but I'll go on to say after so many millenia, punishing me for the sin of someone i don't even know is a tad over-reactive.

Enoch, Abel etc had the same thing but he chose to live to please God and he was not punished. My point is, I am yet to see any one in the Bible punished simply because they were Adam's descendants. The choices we make is what justifies or condemn us.

2) The wages of Sin: now i understand wages in this context to mean reward or more specifically, punishment. You might be wondering what this has to do with anything but it actually leads to my next point. Personally if mortality is punishment for inherited sin no problem, I'll embrace it wholeheartedly. Instead i find that I'm in for a shocker!
N.B By the way anyone noticed how animals die too, did they also inherit Adam's sin or have they been sinners right from creation?

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God
Romans 8:20,21

3) The hell-fire and heaven: as if dying and earthly anguish werent punishment enough, if i don't ask for for forgiveness from the sin i inherited from Adam, I'll be judged after death and tossed into a burning lake where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". This is yet another punishment for inherited sin.

Refer to first response.

N.B: I have a question here too, when a baby is born and then dies shortly after probably due to some complications, the baby goes to hell due to inherited sin right? Okay, a baby is not conscious of its actions, how about a 2 year old who is able to decipher the difference good and bad but has not been able to grasp the idea of praying for forgiveness? Then again, since we do not control who births us, what happen to those born to pagan worshipping parents and have no idea of repentance and consequences of sin?

babies are amoral, are not yet able to discern good and evil and are not yet able to intelligently choose one or the other. Judgement is for those who are able to do these things.

4) The whole concept of living on earth and dying: this is the one that really blows my mind. Based on the notion of after-life, i think I'll be correct to assume that there is a before-life or pre-existence of some form. If I'll be conscious of my post-existence experience, why am i unable to recall my pre-existence experience? Surely, i must have signed up at some point before i was conceived to come to earth, go through hardship, die before finally facing judgement. Or am i just a random creation in the creator's scheme of things?

I still have so much more to write, but i don't want to bore you guys out. These are just my thoughts it may not make any sense to you but please to those who at least get what I'm trying to drive at, help me out. My plea is desperate. Thank you.

There is NOTHING like a pre-existence!

alfarouq, pls answer, according to the Quran, who did God give the Psalms?

Lilbrown007:
Were Is This Fool Getting His Theory From!! Oh I see The Weed Ain't Worn Out Yet

My, my , my, keep 'em coming!

Lilbrown007:
[size=22pt]CHRISTIANS ARE LIARS[/size]

Opinion of 1 man out of over 7 billion!!! Never mind, its his entitlement anyway.

Lilbrown007:
What Issue Did U Raise?? Did U know The Book Of Revelation Took The Last Hour B4 The Catholic Decided To Add It To The New Testament?? Apocalypse of Peter Would Be What U Will Be Reading Now!! Do More Research Bro Scholar My Foot

Well, that apocalypse is another contraption of somebody's assumption of what Heaven is, no correlation with what we find in either the OT and NT, neither correlation with Jesus' description of hell in the story of Lazarus and Rich man.

Revelations agrees with many OT prophesies hence it is in order. Besides, you appear to know almost NOTHING outside the catholic church's version of christianity and church history!!!

Lilbrown007:
[size=16pt]Now The Christians Are Trying To Interpret The Jewish Bibe For The Jews!!!!![/size]

Why not? You sound bitter? Hope nothing?
Any way, hear a Jew who was also a high ranking pharisee:

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:25

This was the consequence of this action of theirs described by the prophets and alluded to by Jesus:

for this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Matthew 13:15

Lilbrown007:
And U Call Yourself A Scholar Yet U Don't Know How The New Testament Was Compiled?? Its A Big Shame On You!!

[size=15pt]Interesting how quick you are to attack the person rather than the issues raised?[/size]

Lilbrown007:
None of these prophecies have been fulfilled, and all of them speak of the time when Yeshua, the son (prince) of David, becomes the one shepherd, king, and priest of Israel. At that time, much to the shock of Christians who believe they have been delivered from the "curse of the Law" God's Law will be established! Every Christian should read Galatians 3:10-13 right after readi

That time will come when these and other will be fulfilled but not before the antichrist has wrecked his havoc in Israel. Besides, before the antichrist, the Messiah will come and will be killed:

Lilbrown007:

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks [size=17pt]shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of [size=17pt]the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary[/size]; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
[/size]

The prince that comes after (not before) the Messiah is the antichrist.

Lilbrown007:
The Infancy Of James Was Talking About Jesus As A Little Kid With Miraculous Powers Using For Either Good Or Evil

This shows that it was another forgery! Jesus did NO miracles till the Spirit came on Him at age 30!

For example, why would His townsmen be surprised in Matthew 13:54 if He had been doing same as a kid??

So, most of these things could not have a place in the BIble

AnonyNymous:
You've shown that you don't understand probability. I have nothing more to say to you.

farewell.

AnonyNymous:
No no don't get it mixed up man, I defined omniscience as not being absolute, no complete certainty of the future, just complete knowledge of the past and present. That's the definition by wikipedia.
It is our Christian scholar above that said omniscience is absolute and knows the future, 100%. Then I gave an analogy to show how ridiculous that is when you say that.

Well, gentleman, I got a quote from the Bible hence those were not my claims.

Yes God knows the future,

He knows the heart of man whence the choices originate,

He knows what choices are to be expected from he that rejects the Truth and cleaves to depravity,

He knows the end i.e. the consequence of choices we make either good or bad and the chain reactions those choices and their consequences will trigger and how those to be affected thereby will react if they were those who have also chosen depravity or Him as Master and likewise the consequences the choices of the latter category. And of course what could happen if someone in the link chooses to make a change along the line.

Finally, He also knows that depravity is just a regent of the serpent, and the serpent has an organised kingdom and a plan that has its goal as what led to his ouster from Heaven. Hence as long as man hates the Light and cleaves to depravity, his every choices under this master will lead to the fulfillment of the purposes of he for whom depravity is just a regent.


Kindly correct me where I am wrong (do quote the Scriptures in your corrections).

AnonyNymous:
As long as there's free will, probability of ANYTHING can never be 0.
You even completely ignored the diagrams

Rather, as long as there's free will with a confirmed pattern of choices and reactions as a result of the motions of depravity being the true master chosen by freewill; probability will be 0 since there is no neutral ground-there are two parts and the rejection of one automatically implies the choice of the other and P(all will choose good)=0. This much was known by Omniscience.

Now to your diagrams:

Diagram3: As long as mankind chooses servitude to depravity by rejecting possible deliverance therefrom through God,
P(man will exercise freewill against his chosen master - depravity- and refuse to kill Jesus )=0

Reason: he cannot act contrary to his master's wish except as he avails himself of the possibility of deliverance through God which he chooses not to do!

Last Diagram: But the majority chose not to be free! Why?

19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
John 3:19