₦airaland Forum

EzeUche_:
No one discusses what is in our DNA. There is only one race and that is the human race. However, there are DIFFERENCES in our identity, which is influenced by our ethnicity & cultural beliefs. That is where our differences come from. We all look through different lens that are shaped by our cultural beliefs. Now enough with you bolded statement.

Well we all have different "obsessions." You can continue with your "Non Islamic Alliance" even though the Yoruba have a large Muslim population, but I am in full support of a united East. You can pursue your "Southern Nigerian" route and I will pursue my Eastern Nigerian route. Just do not get in the way.

@ EzeUche, why would I stand in your way. Don't try to make out that I'm your enemy, why not try to punch holes in my
arguments instead of trying to make out that I'm an obstacle or enemy?

If you read my posts I have merely tried to reason with you by discerning the various ways that certain objectives can be achieved.

I note that you did not answer my question: Do you really believe that the Yoruba in the West would be willing to fight a War
to keep peoples of the East in a UNION of Southern Nigeria?

EzeUche_:
ShangoThor,

Your post were at first amusing, but now they are starting to pisss me off. Sorry to burst your bubble, but a Southern Nigeria federation will never work, because of the mistrust of the Yoruba by Eastern groups. Biafra is more feasible, with the exception of the Ijaw. The Ogoni, Ibibio/Efik/Annang and Cross River community are perfectly fine in joining the Igbo with a nation. That is why Biafra can be likened to Southern Sudan.

Plus, Southeastern Nigeria is majority Christian. The same cannot cannot be said of the South-West. That is why we cannnot say it is a "NON ISLAMIC ALLIANCE."

I would have thought you would have known that already.

[size=14pt]Once again, tribalism is for primitive minds, there are no major differences in our DNA.[/size]

@ EzeUche, if there was a referendum amongst the minority groups that you have discerned, and they accepted to be incorporated
into a Biafran State, I would agree whole heartedly with you, and I genuinely mean that.

My obsession with creating a broad "NON ISLAMIC ALLIANCE" is only because I believe it is more feasible, with a chance for
international support. If after Southern Nigeria has successfully split Ndigbo insist on forming their own state, don't you
think that this can be done amicably, or do you really believe that the Yoruba in the West would be willing to fight a War
to keep the UNION going. All I am saying is that there are many ways to skin a cat. Think strategically.

Reality is that the Southern Nigerian route is still the best way to achieve the Biafran dream.

[size=20pt]I don't mean to burst your bubble but , [/size]

The Southern Sudan scenario is not the same as the Biafra scenario.

The country will not be split along ethnic lines as the attempt to form Biafra was.
In Southern Sudan there are all of these ethnic groups(Dinka, Nuer, Bari, Lotuko, Kuku, Zande, Mundari,
Kakwa, Pojulu, Shilluk, Moru, Acholi, Madi, Lulubo, Lokoya, Toposa, Lango, Didinga, Murle, Anuak, Makaraka,
Mundu, Jur, Kaliko, and others.) of which the Dinka have the largest population (approx. 3 million strong).

If the Dinka, the largest minority group (approx. 3 million strong) decided to declare an ethnically based
Nation State, with the inclusion of a few minority groups then the UN would not have sanctioned a referendum.

What exists in Southern Sudan today is a broad "NON ISLAMIC ALLIANCE".

[size=14pt]Once again, tribalism is for primitive minds, there are no major differences in our DNA.[/size]

ezeagu:
This is the dream, we're talking about reality.

Yes you are right, a dream, but I was in Nigeria in the early 80's and the standard of living was very high.
Europeans create their own living and social conditions, and so can we.

But the bottom line is that you will either stretch out your hand to other Southerners so we can form an
alliance for our common interests, or you will not. The Arabs are setting themselves on fire to take a stand
and we are not prepared to do that, the least we can do is to achieve objectives peacefully and legally.

ezeagu:
With 'Southern Nigeria', Ghana and Cameroon will continue to send back Nigerians and introduce new laws to discourage them from entering their country. With smaller countries, Ghana and Cameroon will continue to send back Nigerians and introduce new laws to discourage them from entering their country.

So why are the people in Lagos more important than the people up North? And have you considered whether everyone in southern Nigeria would want to be in a Southern Nigeria?

@ ezeagu, Southern Nigeria will end up being the most populous, most prosperous Black African country in the world.
Abuja is no comparison to the "New City's" and Trade zones that will start sprouting up in Southern Nigeria. The economy
will be focused on production, building a surplus and profits. Other Black nationals will flock to the new State, and because
security will be of paramount importance, it will be a lot easier to encourage tourism. There will be no starving mouths in
the new State, but this is the big one, we can invent a new currency for the New state which will be more valuable than the
Naira and could alleviate poverty.

Onlytruth:
I dey laugh o!

Chei!
So power de sweet like dis?

So if these Northerners were Easterners who never tasted power for 40 years until Jonathan showed up, this country would have LONG disintegrated?
I hope our people are learning now!

Power MUST NEVER return to the North!

[size=14pt]@ bold, exactly, but the South have got to be prepared - we have to join forces and form an alliance![/size]

Mcleo007:
I'm one person who believes the North has always been Nigeria's problem and not even corruption. Was it not in IBB's time that corruption got theorised and was even more at its prime? How can zoning be a way out to economic development in modern times? Where then do we place true federalism,that allows for anyone to vote and be voted for not minding the individual's regional,religious or ethnic divide. And if I may ask,when did PDP come up with its zoning policy? Was it before 1999, or after? This is because,our memories are still fresh to Atiku's disloyal attempt to vie for president in 2003. Same was IBB, Buhari and the others, meanwhile Obj was still eligible for a 2nd term.
Please,spare us this zoning or unity crap. Other zones are better off without the north. The most brilliant minds in the country's history are from the south,except Sanusi of recent. North my foot,bunch of retards!

[size=14pt]@ bold - Absolutely blunt and bang on the money! Intelligent Nigerians have lost confidence in the system and we are sick and tired of the crap[/size]

Obiagu1:
Walahi, you lack understanding. Can someone explain to him what I wrote?

@ Obiagu1,

I have learnt more about "tribal prejudice" on NairaLand in the last 6 months than I had done in the whole of my lifetime.
I really am grateful to my parents that they did not indoctrinate me as a kid. I cannot understand blind hatered to the
point where it is detrimental to ones health or security.

Millions of Europeans were killed in WW1 & WW2 but they can still get together and agree, form a consensus in their common
interest to Carve up/demarcate Africa, and eventually form the EEC.

I'm appalled at the levels of ineptitude or passive acceptance without intervention amongst Nigerians, this is why I have
always argued that Nigerians are complicit in maintaining the status quo, and encouraging decadence in Public life.

[size=16pt]I have mapped out a solution that does not involve any violence at all.[/size]

It is up to individuals to read and infer what they want from the information provided.

Obiagu1:
Walahi, you lack understanding. Can someone explain to him what I wrote?

@ Obiagu1, some people are incapable of successfully factoring contingencies into their reasoning.

Reality is a bit@#ch! because it is divine intervention (an act of God), alone that disturbed a non constituional
zoning arrangement, revealed it as unworkable and installed a minority in the office of President.

archive:
now you're just being silly

I'm being silly because my conscience dictates that I make as much noise as possible in defense of innocent minor's/children & women getting butchered and murdered in Jos.

You're based in the UK right? Would it be acceptable in the UK for minors to be butchered with machetes without there being a public
outcry or reaction? Or is it ok because it is only happening to African children?

archive:
We would do so much better if we could find a way of working together and going forward as we are now. A large country like nigeria, which is growing at a rapid rate would be a more powerful force than smaller states. also, this would just not work. we just need to change our mind sight. split nigeria up and the separate states will find something else to fight about within their own borders. ethnic division, as such may cease but this won't get rid of greed and the poor mentality that nigerians across the country have today.

1.Southern Nigerians in the diaspora have the capital and technical expertise, to setup and conduct a credible online petition.

2.Just standing by whilst innocent minor's/children & women get butchered and murdered in not acceptable as collateral damage (Jos).

3.Being a sitting duck, subject to sporadic violence from Northerners because they are seeking grazing lands for their cattle, or
because a Cartoonist in Europe creates a satirical cartoon, or because divine intervention (an act of God) disturbs a non constituional
zoning arrangement, and is revealed as unworkable are not acceptable.

The bottomline is you should either be for Option A or Option B, but to do nothing is a recipe for disaster!

ChinenyeN:
Since your topic is about option B, I'm assuming there is an option A. Mind telling us what that is?

[size=20pt]Solution precis - Fix the State[/size]

1. Start a petition online and all over Nigeria, target Southern Nigeria (cooperate)

2. Publish results, embarass the government internally and globally, use the global media, lobby the UN and Super Powers.

3. Demand the implementation of Political and Economic Structural changes in the State (True Federalism, Separation of Powers
Independence of the Judiciary, Rule of Law, Transparent Government, Independent and entrenched Taxation body with published
figures.

4. Start a class action against or sue the FG at the International Court of Justice, Hague for the dereliction of duties
to her citizens regarding not guaranteeing human rights and property (JOS).

5. Assuming all of the above ends up fruitless =====> we opt for "OPTION B", which is point 6 below

6. Form 1 major alliance across the South and parts of the Middle Belt in favour of lobbying the UN for a "UN sponsored referendum"
regarding the secession of Southern Nigeria.

[size=16pt]Five reasons discerning the non-feasability of a Strong centred Western (Yoruba) Odua state.[/size]

1. The lack of support for its creation by the International Community and International bodies such as the UN.

2. The lack of a general consensus amongst the majority of their populace to secede.

3. Minority Yoruba communities might not want to be encorporated within the State.

4. The Largest Yoruba population, spiritual home (Ile Ife) and Largest formed polity (Oyo Empire) exists in Western Nigeria. Majority
populations in a Separate State do not secede from them only to Join up with the minority population in a neighbouring country (Benin Republic).
This would destabilize the Benin Republic as the Yoruba's become the largest ethnic group in the country. Also Benin Republic is a Francophonic
country and the French interest in Africa is questionable especially as they have been implicated in the Genocidal acts that were perpetrated in
Rwanda. [size=14pt](This one is for BecomeRich @!)[/size]

5. The Kwara question?, historical split exixts in that Polity, might present problems if justication to secede is based on ethnicity alone.

[size=20pt]Once again, tribalism is for primitive minds, there are no major differences in our DNA.[/size]

Becomrichn:
good lucky, we Yoruba just want to join Benin republic. Ok. good lucky in your dream world. When they arrest you at airport in many countries for holding fake passport.

ezeagu:
So why would they support 'Southern Nigeria'?

How do you know this?

There are no minorities, it's an Igbo state.

First of all what does this have to do with the present? Second of all you're wrong, and lastly what do you judge as a 'large' state, kingdom, or empire?

Why and how?

If every Igbo community from Owerre and southwards somehow votes out of the Igbo state, it still will not be land locked.

Interesting answers, I'd be interested to hear what other Igbo personalities on this board have to say.

ezeagu:
Option B - Give me an Igbo state or leave Nigeria as it is.

Five reasons discerning the non-feasability of a Strong centred Eastern (Igbo) state.

1. The lack of support for its creation by the International Community and International bodies such as the UN.

2. The lack of a general consensus amongst the majority of their populace to secede.

3. Minorities to be encorporated within the State might not want to be.

4. It is not in the ethnic character of its peoples to form large States, Kingdoms, or Empires.

5. The creation of such a State might end up counter productive to their economic interests by curtailing or confining
trade activities within the confines of the newly created State and might leave the State land locked if certain minority
communities disagree about being encoporated into such a State.

This is a rational discussion and debate, I would like to hear counter arguments.

[size=20pt]Comprehensive detailed Solution[/size]


The ideal solution (which assumes that we are in control of the situation), is to employ different approaches to attaining
'True Federalism' within the borders of Nigeria, the State as it currently exists, where total control is relinquished to
the invidual States on financial, indigenous, mineral resource issues amongst others (loads of detail which can be debated to be discussed here).

The State itself would have to be restructured too with regards to constitutional principles, 'Separation of Powers' with a strong and
independent 'Judiciary' and completely based on the 'rule of law' and guaranteed transparency entrenched by law (Freedom of Information Act);
Independent and entrenched Taxation body with published figures

The problem we have at the moment is that the Majority of Nigerians have completely lost confidence in the apparatus of the State.
This single fact is counter-productive and killing the 'Stake Holding' relationship between the State and her citizens and cannot be simply
argued away by those in favour of 'inaction' or the 'status quo'.

In addition, the economy has to be restructured. We inherited from our colonial vampires a system where we were only allowed to
export raw materials and not refined or manufactured products, (check out the history of the World Trade Agreement), this was the policy
throughout the Empire, and the policy has just been reversed recently under the Obama US Administration. Furthermore, we have a system
where the FG at the centre controls all resources and mineral rights in individual states, and the main focus or emphasis is based on
"Distribution" as opposed to "Production", the distribution of the receipts of mineral or resource sales to all the individual States.
This encourages apathy, greed and lazyness. If the FG were to serve the role as a massive Welfare state, some of the payments should go
directly to individual citizens to alleviate poverty and not to pot-bellied politicians. I do not believe in freebies,
the emphasis should be changed to that of "Production", that's the only way that we can create wealth in the country, a surplus thus
taking advantage of our massive population. A massive population by the way is only advantageous if they are productive.

What methods should we employ in order to implement such Political and Economic structural change in the polity??

Organize, collaborate and cooperate, grassroots action, for the purpose of starting a 'Petition', collect signatures all over Nigeria,
(particualrly Southern Nigeria) and the diaspora by using the internet, digital media and other methods, this can be used to embarass
the Government internally, abroad amongst the Western Media (because its time to use them). In relation to Jos and the implication
of "State sponsored murders", we would be able to use such a petition to take action against or sue the FG at the International Court of Justice,
Hague for the dereliction of duties to her citizens regarding guaranteeing human rights and property.


We would lobby all the Super Powers,
and present it to the UN, which would eventually pave the way for a "UN sponsored referendum" regarding the secession of
Southern Nigeria (OPTION B).

(OPTION B).

If structural changes mentioned above cannot be achieved because our Northern Countrymen block this (after all it would force them to
make their citizens productive), then we would have to push the UN to conduct a "UN sponsored referendum"
regarding the secession of Southern Nigeria (OPTION B). The formation of Southern Nigeria would be a lot more successful if we
enshrined all of the principles mentioned above under a 'Secular Constitution').

Most importantly, the formation of 'Southern Nigeria' (could be called something else) would receive the backing of all the
'Major World Powers', whilst China would sit on the fence.


[size=20pt]Once again, tribalism is for primitive minds, there are no major differences in our DNA.[/size]

[size=20pt]Solution precis - Last Option B - Creation of Southern Nigerian State[/size]

[size=15pt]Once again, tribalism is for primitive minds, there are no major differences in our DNA.[/size]

A proposal to form a State consisting of a massive Christian block, a tolerant Polity and Society toward the more progressive Muslims
of the South and traditional religions.

It would range from Lagos and the Benin Republic border in the West to the Cameroon border in the East. It would also extend to
parts of Kwara in the North and spread across parts of the Middle Belt up to Jos.

The peoples of the middle belt would have a choice via a a "UN sponsored referendum" regarding which part of the country they
would like to Join and the secession of Southern Nigeria.

Ironically, the push for the implementation of Sharia Law in some Northern States might have made the Job easier (map included below).

We can relinquish control of, or claims to Abuja, or split it depending on the wishes of the indigenes (even though Abuja is well planned
and modern, we would be able to do better, in the South).

The New country of Southern Nigeria could be called something else (because I believe so much irreparable damage has been done to Nigeria
that it can't be successfully rebranded).

The setup of the New State would ensure that no single Polity or Group of peoples would dominate and ensure minorities will never be dominated
by implementing Political and Economic Structural changes in the State (True Federalism, Separation of Powers
Independence of the Judiciary, Rule of Law, Transparent Government, Independent and entrenched Taxation body with published figures.

In addition, the economy has to be restructured. We inherited from our colonial vampires a system where we were only allowed to
export raw materials and not refined or manufactured products, (check out the history of the World Trade Agreement), this was the policy
throughout the Empire, and the policy has just been reversed recently under the Obama US Administration. Furthermore, we have a system
where the FG at the centre controls all resources and mineral rights in individual states, and the main focus or emphasis is based on
"Distribution" as opposed to "Production", the distribution of the receipts of mineral or resource sales to all the individual States.
This encourages apathy, greed and lazyness. If the FG were to serve the role as a massive Welfare state, some of the payments should go
directly to individual citizens to alleviate poverty and not to pot-bellied politicians. I do not believe in freebies,
the emphasis should be changed to that of "Production", that's the only way that we can create wealth in the country, a surplus thus
taking advantage of our massive population. A massive population by the way is only advantageous if they are productive.

[size=20pt]Solution precis - Last Option B - Creation of Southern Nigerian State[/size]

[size=20pt]Once again, tribalism is for primitive minds, there are no major differences in our DNA.[/size]

A massive Christian block, a tolerant Polity and Society towards the more progressive Muslims of the South and traditional religions.

It would range from Lagos and the Benin Republic border in the West to the Cameroon border in the East. It would also extend to
parts of Kwara in the North and spread across parts of the Middle Belt up to Jos.

The peoples of the middle belt would have a choice via a a "UN sponsored referendum" regarding which part of the country they
would like to Join and the secession of Southern Nigeria.

Ironically, the push for the implementation of Sharia Law in some Northern States might have made the Job easier (map included below).

We can relinquish control of, or claims to Abuja, or split it depending on the wishes of the indigenes (even though Abuja is well planned
and modern, we would be able to do better, in the South).

The New country of Southern Nigeria could be called something else (because I believe so much irreparable damage has been done to Nigeria
that it can't be successfully rebranded).

The setup of the New State would ensure that no single Polity or Group of peoples would dominate and ensure minorities will never be dominated
by implementing Political and Economic Structural changes in the State (True Federalism, Separation of Powers
Independence of the Judiciary, Rule of Law, Transparent Government, Independent and entrenched Taxation body with published figures.

In addition, the economy has to be restructured. We inherited from our colonial vampires a system where we were only allowed to
export raw materials and not refined or manufactured products, (check out the history of the World Trade Agreement), this was the policy
throughout the Empire, and the policy has just been reversed recently under the Obama US Administration. Furthermore, we have a system
where the FG at the centre controls all resources and mineral rights in individual states, and the main focus or emphasis is based on
"Distribution" as opposed to "Production", the distribution of the receipts of mineral or resource sales to all the individual States.
This encourages apathy, greed and lazyness. If the FG were to serve the role as a massive Welfare state, some of the payments should go
directly to individual citizens to alleviate poverty and not to pot-bellied politicians. I do not believe in freebies,
the emphasis should be changed to that of "Production", that's the only way that we can create wealth in the country, a surplus thus
taking advantage of our massive population. A massive population by the way is only advantageous if they are productive.

I remain a student of History

[size=20pt]Once again, tribalism is for primitive minds, there are no major differences in our DNA.[/size]

Five reasons discerning the non-feasability of a Strong centred Eastern state.

1. The lack of support for its creation by the International Community and International bodies such as the UN.

2. The lack of a general consensus amongst the majority of their populace to secede.

3. Minorities to be encorporated within the State might not want to be.

4. It is not in the ethnic character of its peoples to form large States, Kingdoms, or Empires.

5. The creation of such a State might end up counter productive to their economic interests by curtailing or confining
trade activities within the confines of the newly created State and might leave the State land locked if certain minority
communities disagree about being encoporated into such a State.

This is a rational discussion and debate, I would like to hear counter arguments.

houvest:
US by such activities is carrying out acts of sabotage on a friendly sovereign Country. I wager that they are not using only Shell but other Multinationals. This is espionage gone crazy. Germany could be using Berger, Uk,France, China, and all these seeming friendly Nations could all be doing same. They are all looking out for themselves. Nigeria save thyself. Do not ever think that your salvation will come from elsewhere.

[size=18pt]Neo-Slavery: Phase 2 . Bluntly put, they are doing it, and so what is anybody going to do about it?[/size]

The main question for me is will the next generation actually have a nation they own, or by that time would the country
have been sold or mortgaged off to the Indians, Chinese and MultiNationals ? ? ? ?

jay_getta:
I cry for Nigeria. Everyday I think to myself, I dream, and I envision a place in Africa, in Nigeria, where the black world can call her own! A place where people from all over the world would flock to because it is prosperous. A place where people would dream of one day emigrating to. A place where people would dream of one day being "Nigerian Citizens". . . Nigeria doesn't know the black race is betting on its success. Nigeria gets it right, and the black man is finally free, for real. Why these politicians haven't been murdered and hung upside down (a la Mussolini) is the very description of "astonishment". Until blood is shed Nigeria will never be free. If Nigeria is not free then exploitation of the black race will continue forever. . .

Recently, I have come to the conclusion that "most Nigerians" do not believe in or care about the notion of a 'BLACK RACE'
Think about it, if citizens are continually willing to accept 'Butchered women and children' as part of collateral damage
due to the conflict in Jos, do they really give a flying fu@*ck about the 'BLACK RACE'.

[size=20pt]Solution precis - Fix the State[/size]

1. Start a petition online and all over Nigeria, target Southern Nigeria (cooperate)

2. Publish results, embarass the government internally and globally, use the global media, lobby the UN and Super Powers.

3. Demand the implementation of Political and Economic Structural changes in the State (True Federalism, Separation of Powers
Independence of the Judiciary, Rule of Law, Transparent Government, Independent and entrenched Taxation body with published
figures.

4. Start a class action against or sue the FG at the International Court of Justice, Hague for the dereliction of duties
to her citizens regarding not guaranteeing human rights and property (JOS).

5. Assuming all of the above ends up fruitless =====> we opt for "OPTION B", which is point 6 below

6. Form 1 major alliance across the South and parts of the Middle Belt in favour of lobbying the UN for a "UN sponsored referendum"
regarding the secession of Southern Nigeria.


Fix the State and we will fix the problem!