₦airaland Forum

Kalu Akanu:
Oh shut up Shango thor.

The Southern people had a chance to join the East and our conflict with the North, but they chose otherwise.

When you sleep with dogs, be prepared to have fleas.

@ Kalu Akanu

So your position is that because Southern people had a chance to join the East and your conflict with the North, but chose otherwise, we should let the Christian peoples residing in Jos get slaughtered. You are so narcissistic it defies logic and belief, and by the way, how is declaring the Republic of Biafra for peoples of the east including minorities an invitation for all people in Southern Nigeria to join you?

[size=18pt]Tribalism is for 'Primitive' minds!

OMG - Southern Nigeria is the original 'Tower of Babel'![/size]

My position : I don't give a flying fu@**ck whether you are from Jupiter, Mars or anywhere else in the cosmos and
I refuse to be held accountable for the deeds of my Father's generation, afterall, I was not born when all of this
unfolded.

I'm only concerned with the present, and like a good parent, I aim to shape the environment and country my kids will
eventually inherit.

I am aware of certain challenges in the country like whats going on in SS (especially the subjugation and pollution);
most importantly, the Jos crises' and the killings of minors, children, women etc. I read somewhere on NL that the
majority of victims of the conflict are Igbo's. I have also seen pictures of minors (under 10 yrs old) with the top
of their heads chopped open exposing their 'brain matter'. The child was chopped by a machette and after viewing this
ghastly disturbing picture, my blood boiled and I could not sleep for days.

My 12 year old daughter actually found the pic on the net in the UK, and she started asking me questions. All we could
see was a butchered pic of a child with a black face, I did not start thinking or wondering if the child was of Igbo or
middle belt descent, because once again, I don't give a flying fu@**ck , apart from the obvious of how I explain
this away to my dauughter, ,

[size=18pt]my quetion is : What do we do about it?[/size]

If you're only answer is based on events that occurred in the 50/60's, then you seriouly need to jump into the River Niger
and drown yourself.

LRNZH:
Past 11 Months: This is more like GEJ credentials since he has been president

So are we to trust that GEJ and the present crop of PDP are going to "fix the state" if "voted" in?

Nope, the people will have to force the issue. But there is no unity amongst the peoples of Nigeria to make the 'Structural changes'.

We the people have to partly accept some responsibility for irresponsible government and decadence.

I tell my father frequently also that I blame his 'independence generation' for what we are about to inherit.

[size=18pt]Fix the State and you will fix the problem![/size]
This is exactly what happens in a system that has its focus on 'distribution' as opposed 'production',
which is how wealth and surplus' are generated.

Structural adjustment is required within the sphere of the State. Fix the State and you will fix the problem!

It's simple!

quest003:
Sentiments apart, whats your own perception about dis woman? What we nid is good governance which i believe she can deliever, those in her constituency and evn kwara as a whole can testify 2 dis. Sen gbemi is a woman wit a highly humble personalty, her scholarship scheme is wow! I so much admire her passionate belief in d youth nd her love 4 d less priviledge, she is a rare breed politician with humanistic ideals, is it her contributn 2 poverty alleviatn in d state u wnt 2 tlk abt? she is someone who believes in touchin d lives of evryone around her evn at her own expnse, she is a leader who sees a leadership positions as an avenue 2 positivly influence d lives of those u represents rather dan milkin d resources and amasin wealth which has become a norm in our society, nd dis re some of d reasons she keeps gaining popularity evryday. Dis is a democratic regime, Gbemi saraki is an individual so is gov bukola, d fact dat her broda is a gov shldnt stop her from contestin neither shld it stop us from voting her if we believe in her. Try find out some dis things i wrote abt her nd let me knw if i ve lied. Kwarans and residnts of kwara d fate of nigerians lies in your hand. A new nigeria is set to begin from your state, register nd cast your vote 4 a leader dat cares nd i believe we'll get there(ameen)

@ quest003 ,

Isn't it true that the main obstacle to Gbemi's ambitions is the male chauvanistic Islamic Northern attitude and view
about the roles women are meant to play.

I have seen articles published about this

SapeleGuy:
True federalism and cultural diversity in an environment of mutual respect is what we must strive for. If a region says that the pace of change is too fast for them, abeg make una leave them.

[size=18pt]@ Sapele Guy, you're also right on the money here![/size]

How do you modernize a country, when leaders in a region within the country have not challenged prevailing attitutes and trends.
Where education in a pro-modernity context is seen as western and corruptible, where the foundations of their comfort zone is based
on an 'agrarian society'; where more zeal and passion is displayed for implementing Sharia law as opposed to educating their masses;
or alleviating/eradicating poverty from their midst;

Then the political discourse contribution they are willing to make is to converse about 'zoning' (because they believe they've got a
God given right to rule the country, when in fact the privilege was setup and granted by the British colonialists)
or 'sharing' the proceeds of 'oil sale receipts',in other words a system that has its focus on 'distribution' as opposed 'production',
which is how wealth and surplus' are generated.

Enough is enough, what you get in this country should depend on what you are willing to contribute ,  stop expecting freebies.
If the FG agrees that part of its remit should be to act as a massive Welfare State, the recipients should directly be the citizens
of the country and not fat pot bellied politicians controlling individual states, a factor greatly influenced by the Northern
Caucas.

Nobody is entitled to anything free of charge. You get out of it what you contribute. Say no to freebies.

So when Onno Ruhl claimed that some States in the FR are displaying signs of being able to grow and fend for themselves, ask yourselves
where are those states, is it a coincidence that those states are in the Southern Nigeria? Is there any oil in Lagos?

Let true Federalism prevail, let SS keep their oil, and develop their lands, all peoples of Southern Nigeria are capable to producing
something, capable of contributing towards a surplus, generating wealth ,  tribalism is for primitive minds ,  lets create our Utopia

Do you know how efficient the economy of Southern Nigeria was prior to amalgamation? Check the archives ,

Fix the State, and you will fix the problem.

[size=18pt]Legalize it all the way - the worlds oldest profession![/size]

I commend the starter of this thread for your honesty? Thank you

Reality is truly a bit@*ch -

[size=18pt]@ cashful, I believe tribalism is for primitive minds[/size]

I never talk about ethic minorities in a derogatory manner.
I wish you luck with your pursuit for a 'Sovereign National Conference', but can we agree on a cut off date, i.e. if
you can't achieve this in the next five years we can start to pursue 'option b', Southern region seccession like
the Southern Sudanese have done? Shouldn't we let the people ultimately decide? Does this make me a bigot, because
I believe in the 'sovereignty of the people' or 'formulating and implementing a workable solution to our problem?

Talk is cheap, some people talk, and other peole 'act'.

[size=18pt]Fix the State, and you will fix the problem.[/size]

Beaf:
Corruption is not Nigeria's problem, structure is. The way to fix things is to opt for true federalism, with that will come a definition for every single point in the list above.

[size=18pt]Beaf is actually bang on the money here,  he mentions 'Structure' of the State , [/size]

However, according to my logical trail of thought, the opposition to true Federalism in Nigeria stems from the
Northern element due to receipts of Oil sales.
I do not believe there is huge opposition to true Federalism amongst the various polities of Southern Nigeria,
hence in order to realise true Federalism Southern Nigeria might have to pursue the option to secede, or accept
that our children will be having this same conversation in 50 years time

Fix the State and you will fix the problem,

Katsumoto:
There are approximately 150m Nigerians; those that have looted this country are not up to 1 million. I am sure we can find more citizens who happen to be more competent that the current and past bunch. You don't have to lock them all up but certainly lock up the more brazen and greedy ones amongst them. Why would we negotiate with them? What leverage do they have? Seizing their assets and locking some up will serve as a deterrent to those coming in. Also new officials who turn out to be corrupt wont be able to argue precedence if you don't pardon these looters.

[size=18pt]Same point I reiterate ,  even though its a hot potato that Nigerians hate addressing it.[/size]

IBB, a known looter and poised for running for the office of president,
An OBJ govt wouldn't dare arrest him because that move would upset the North/South Schism,  this is a fact

And people are talking about seizeing assets of perpetrators,  understand the nature of the problem


Basically, fix the State and you will fix the problem,

Katsumoto:
You asked for solutions, I gave you a detailed breakdown but you failed to respond? Is it because you are afraid of the ideas to deal with looters?

ndu_chucks:
@ShangoThor, you destroyed an otherwise adequate post with the statement "But we cannot rectify the 'State' because our Northern country men have a vested interest in the setup of the status quo, "

If you don't know by now that those "looters" who have a vested interest in the staus quo hail from East, West, South, and North, then if one must not assume that you are silly, one would have to conclude that you are bigoted.

ndu Chuks, you miss my point. Read my thread again, I did not say that only Northerners loot funds from the coffers of the State.

I said that we have an 'ineffectual state', and yes I do blame this on the fact that there is a schism between North and South.
The only reason why there is no political will to tackle corruption is because there is no unity. In addition, it is not me that fought
for the implentation of Sharia law which has an implication of distinguishing states.

You will never be able to get any of my posts where I state that I hate Northerners and  that is because they are fellow Africans,
however, I am realistic enough to recognize that a part of the country sees themselves as different to the rest of the polity. Did I invent zoning?

Fix the State, you fix the problem!

[size=18pt]Too much talking,  and very little action ,  the situation is simple , think of it this way.[/size]

Is corruption a bigger problem than our inability as a nation to stem or curb it?

or

How is it in 50 years of independence that Nigeria has not been able to devise systems that prevent corruption and capital flight?

or

Nigeria's inability to find solutions to problems and challenges such as 'corruption' is a much bigger problem than the highlighted problems.


Hence, yes Nigeria has a myriad of problems, and at the top of that apex of problems is corruption, but you cannot curb it because you have
an 'ineffectual State'. Nigeria was formed as an asset of a commercial company. Unfortunately, traits of this still exists. The FG (as a vessel)
is more interested in enforcing the rights of Multinationals and their ability to violate the country (and of course they get paid handsomely for doing so)
than it is in enforcing the rights of Nigerian citizens.

If we rectify the 'State', we solve the problem. But we cannot rectify the 'State' because our Northern country men have a vested interest in the
setup of the status quo, where the post independence policy (via Lugard) was to 'extract the funds for developing the Northern region from funds
and capital raised in the South.

Basically, fix the State and you will fix the problem,

answer: the signing of the "Bi-National Commission" by the Obama Administration and Nigeria during the interim period between GEJ taking over from the incapacitated Yar'adua propping cabal.

[size=18pt]Human Rights in Africa is a farce![/size]

[size=18pt]Mr Onno Ruhl of the world bank was absolutely spot on.[/size]

Our ability and confidence as a Nation to formulate and implement solutions has been sapped,

Jos crisis = north/south issue = no resolution = no moving forward
Ailing & incapacitated president Yar'adua, Goodluck couldn't assume powers = north/south issue
Poor infrastructure = north/south issue = unresolved
Corruption = north/south issue = unresolved (OBJ could not in a million years have arrested IBB)
Armed Forces problem = north/south issue = imbalance in composition = unresolved
Federation Formulation problem = north/south issue = forcefully resolved = citizen resentment
Oil revenue problem = north/south issue = unresolved


and the list goes on and on,

Dede1: Nigeria number one problem is tribalism and sectional differences both mentally and spiritually. Disintegration of Nigeria will usher new approach to politics and create healthy competition as well as mutual respect among new countries.

[size=18pt]The problem with Nigeria is mostly to do with regions. [/size]

Tribalism is a colonial construct. The Igbos were never one people and neither were the Yorubas.
What hitherto existed were loosely affiliated Polities through language.

The rivalry and competing element between the regions stems from our colonial setup (please do your historical research).

There is north and south period. What we call tribalism and religion just compounds the issue. For instance, thats why
the more progressive southern muslims are not clamouring for the implentation of Sharia law in the south.

Nigeria is already logically split. There is a massive difference between that which exists (reality); and the way things ought to be.

^^^^ that isn't my map, it's a graphical illustration of the States in the North that have implemented Sharia Law.

It supports my argument that Nigeria is already logically split.

[size=18pt]Southern Nigeria referendum[/size]

Is this the begining of the end of the dyfunctional colonial constructed State in Africa

Southern Nigerians should also be given a choice to vote on separation because Nigeria is already
logically split.

Moreover, it should not be the preserve of the relatively few bourgeois within
the country to deprive the masses from voting on the issue. LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE !!!

[size=18pt]Nothing to do with sentiments or rhetoric, just results: Fashola . . . . all the way![/size]

[size=18pt]The problem with Nigeria is mostly to do with regions. [/size]

Tribalism is a colonial construct. The Igbos were never one people and neither were the Yorubas.
What hitherto existed were loosely affiliated Polities through language.

The rivalry and competing element between the regions stems from our colonial setup (please do your historical research).

There is north and south period. What we call tribalism and religion just compounds the issue. For instance, thats why
the more progressive southern muslims are not clamouring for the implentation of Sharia law in the south.

Nigeria is already logically split. There is a massive difference between that which exists (reality); and the way things ought to be.

[size=18pt]Constantly Updated results of Southern Sudan referendum! [/size]


Source link below.

http://southernsudan2011.com/

It is also worth noting that all citizens in the diaspora could participate in the democratic process. Wow - we are talking about Southern Sudan Check out the out of the country voting registration page below, it looks sooooooo complex 

http://www.goss-online.org/

asha 80:
you have to understand the a lot of nigerians do not like facing the truth and facts about situations.a lot like burying their heads in the sand rather than confront situations bothering on their existence in the country or how the country is strucutred.the belief is that by an act of 'miracle' things will turn itself around.

@ asha 80, my big fear apart from the obvious of delaying the inevitable is that if we do not make an attempt to determine our destinies, external
forces such as the Yanks, Iranians or al qaeda will.

I've been monitoring the results of the vote in Sudan and all indications are that the South have voted to secede. It will be so demoralizing if whilst
we are still pondering about our situation, the Southern Sudanese form their new country, and start developing a credible Utopia ,

asha 80:
well nigerians will tell you that power to change is in the ballot but honestly i feel we have past that stage now.

@ asha 80, I agree with you actually, however I am not trying to come across as a revolutionary, but merely
trying to appeal to the 'reasonable citizen'.

There are tensions and paradoxes in the Nigerian 'arrangement' that have to be resolved before we can move forward.

Irrespective of what happens with regards to fragmentation, I will never hate those that choose to secede because
the bottom line is that we are all Africans; will always be neighbours; and will have to devise mechanisms to promote
co-existence.


1. The North/South divide schism exists whether we like it or not. Sharia law (adopted by the Northern states)
contradicts, contravenes and challenges the Constitution. This is simply a matter of core values. The North have
every right to implement Sharia, but they have to accept that they have to form a separate country in the interest
of all. Hopefully, we will be able to do this amicably. Moreover, there is no other country in the world where
Sharia is adopted by virtually half of the country, it is unworkable and why experiment with a scenario that is
already fragile.

2. More Independent and stronger Judiciary - there is no point in discussing this without firstly dicussing a
complete overhaul, a structural adjustment of the State, the apparatus of the State and the concept of 'the Separation
of Powers'.

Until the above issues are addressed, we are just delaying the inevitable.

[size=18pt]What makes a king out of a slave? Courage![/size]

I really admire 'courage', I think it is the most pivotal virtue that a lot of Nigerians lack, 

If we think about the act of setting one's self on fire, it is perhaps the ultimate act of 'self sacrifice'
and cannot be compared to a suicide bombing, because there is no desire to injure or kill other individuals.
It is also a very deep psychological statement, one that displays complete contempt for the authorities.

@ Rossicke, I really respect and share a lot of your views on history and the current state of affairs,
however, as weak as you perceive the act to be, it has provoked a nation wide reaction that is forcing
change, at least in Tunisia. I have toured Tunisia and it is a relatively modern country with a strong
economy and the standard of living was very cheap, that is perhaps why Tunisians endured 2 decades of
mis-party rule. Nevertheless, history will read ,  eventually the people rebelled and the catalyst
was a 17 year old boy that defiantly set himself ablaze.

At what point do we draw a line in the sand as citizens when certain universal standards of decency
are encroached upon; what do we say to our children when they ask us in the future what we did when
we were confronted by these challenges; what if we do not have anything worthwhile regarding heritage
to pass down to our children. It is never always feasible to 'live in hope' or 'wait and see'.

I asked the question of the post thread title because I was playing devil's advocate.

My take on Nigeria, the erosion of civil liberties, under-development and developmental regression since
the early 80's is that 'we' as Nigerian citizens are complicit in holding her back if not in her demise.

There are no unifying threads of common decency that have trancended all geo-polities in Nigeria, hence
we are all culpable regarding how we arrived at the status quo.

The right of a Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, Edo, Ijaw citizen to freedom of movement with guaranteed security
(not being robbed); to state protection from extortion (especially not by the Police at check points);
to protection of pollution of ones community; to protection from exploitation of MultiNational companies
is all about common decency which should apply to all. These are natural inalienable rights that should
not be compromised irrespective of having had Military Dictatorships in the past.

I have never known Nigerians to draw a line in the sand and take a stand, those that do are earmarked
as being fringe or radical movements. Fela tried and sacrificed so much for the cause, and when he was
being battered and bruised despite losing millions of $$$ in the process of trying to awaken our
consciousness to the fact that the 'State' belongs to, or represents an embodiment of the spirit of the people.

All I'm saying is that in my humble opinion, we as citizens have to take some responsibility for the scenario
that we have today.

If all citizens in every state of all ages peacefully engaged in civil disobedience measures aimed at the
government to stop the killings in Jos, or Police bribery at check points, or the pollution in the Niger
Delta, amongst other causes, the State would find the political will to act.

^^^^^^ Touche , Rossike, but very true