₦airaland Forum

Gluthatione:
Gbam. God bless you

Amen and you too.

joyjacob002:
woow u r d only sensible person av seen here so far. May God continue to enrich u

If you are a graduate and you typed this, then I pity your education, a thread that a lot of people have dropped their contributions without insulting or hitting out indirectly at others and u now posted that u can see only one sensible person. I wouldn't have replied you but I just pity whosoever will deal with someone like you. Your school didn't train you in character and you didn't have it neither.

Next time, comment only to the post and don't make such disrespectful comment.......

lukaino:
First, I want to thank the OP for this post.
I graduated from a polytechnic 16 years ago with an upper credit. I have been working for about 14yrs now, so I believe I have the necessary background and experience to give some sound advice on this subject.

The discrimination against HND graduates started with the government of Nigeria who rated the Bsc above the HND. This is very evident by the minimum qualifications often set by many government ministries, departments and agencies. For example, an HND holder cannot apply to an agency such as NERC while others who employ HND, make them juniors to Bsc holders regardless of experience.
This simply implies that the HND certificate was created by the government to play second fiddle in the labour market.

In the private sector, the situation is worse. The HND graduates are sought after by mostly Asian/ middle East companies (I. e Chinese, Indians & Lebanese) who give nothing but poor wages with harsh working conditions.

Being an HND graduate, places a limit on your eligibility for employment in blue chip companies. For example, Telecom, banking, IT, etc, have little or no place for you. And even if they employ you, they give you petty roles whereby your highest role would be an Assistant manager.

Trust me, the painful part of being an HND holder is when you find out that you can only apply for 4 out of 15 job openings. It's that bad.

In order to improve our chances of getting good jobs, most HND graduates(myself included) ended up seeking part time admissions into Universities to obtain Bsc certificates. Unilag for instance admits polytechnic graduates with lower credit to 100 level while upper credit HND holders get admitted to 300 level. (HND graduates always outshine others in class)

You can save yourself the trouble by not buying that polytechnic form while the government can save us all the trouble by either scrapping these polytechnics or upgrading them to become degree awarding institutions.

I appreciate you sir for the contributions, Thanks for shedding more light to the matter.

Boscolo:
What the OP is saying is actually the truth. He is not comparing both certificates, but trying to educate those looking forward to obtain the HND certificate in future. Lot of people on here are saying certificate does not determine your success (not in Nigeria), yes they are right, but do you know that if one certificate (BSc) opens a door for you to a big company that pays well, becoming successful will be faster than when you are denied employment because you are having one certificate(HND) that employers feel is "rubbish".

My experience:
I applied for an Engineering job (well, the advert only specified first degree holders to apply, and since HND is "equivalent" to a degree in Nigeria, I applied). I passed the first stage, and at the second stage we were meant to face another interview panel. The interview process was going on well until the last guy (who happens to be the head of the panel) spotted my qualification and the following
ensues.

Interviewer: You are a HND holder
Me: Yes
Interviewer: This position is for BEng/BSc holder, are you aware of that?
Me: Well, the advert stated that only first degree holders should apply, and according to the law HND is "equivalent" to BSc( first degree), hence the reason I applied as the advert never stated BSc/BEng/BTech or a University degree.

Interviewer:Looked at the advert and smiled; you are brilliant. If I may ask, why did you go to a Polytechnic, why not a University?
Me: To be trained as an Engineer/Technologist, which to the best of my knowledge I believe I have acquired what it takes to start a career in the field of Engineering to be precise.

The entire panel: smiled (because that was not the answer they were expecting).

Interviewer: Well, from your reply and result it shows that you are a brilliant guy, but you shouldn't be here because you should have been told last two weeks(at the first stage of the interview) that this job is for a degree holder, and is with regret that despite the fact that you have impress us (other members of the panel nodding their heads in agreement) we cannot employ you, not that you are not brilliant. Among those we have interviewed today I'll say that you are among the best and if not for your certificate (HND) you would have been scheduled to meet with the MD for a final discussion, but is with regret that your application will not be processed further to the final stage(The guy was straight to the point).

This happened in 2008, but do you guys know what? Despite my experience(s) I've never regretted attending or passing through a Polytechnic.

I think HND should be scrapped and Polytechnic should be allowed to run National Diploma only or better still , Polytechnics should be allowed to run a straight five years programme and award BEngTech (this is a degree that no institution in Nigeria is awarding right now) and their nomenclature be changed from[b] Polytechnic to University of Applied Technology.[/b].

BEngTech okay Engineering Technician.
However BEng is Bachelor of Engineering and a lot of schools award that in Nigeria. FUTA for example, awards B.Eng for Engineering courses

Fongido:
What about the federal university and state university discrimination?

A topic for another day.
This one is another subject entirely.
But it is not that serious like HND and Bsc wahala.

Ihebu4chelsea:
it's very simple!! Save yourself the stress. Get a degree! Stop celebrating mediocrity.

This is the conclusion of the whole matter.

hotwax:
You guys should stop miss informing the masses as if no one is employing polytechnic graduates.

In computer science, elect elect, civil engineering, mechanical engineering, HND graduates are always preferred there.

A blatant lie, Top multinational companies prefer university graduates, have you wondered why a lot of advertised job offers from construction industries to oil companies prefer Bsc, even for engineering fields, They have the edge. Let me give u solid examples to chill u, Orwell in PH GT was for Engineering graduates and Bsc, Shell Nigeria follow suit, Mobil did the same, and even recently Seplat Petroleum too, JB go for university graduates, I served there and the engineers were university baked. Even setraco in Abuja recruitment was for Young University engineering graduates.

A friend of mine, an HND graduate applied, he wasn't even considered at all. He told me he will get Jamb form and start B.Eng again.

This discussion has generated lot of arguments. I was expecting that, the polytechnic graduates will try a lot to rubbish or equal themselves to their university counterparts. It is normal, it is a psychological Twist just to boost up their own ego. The truth is nobody wakes up early in life and pray to attend polytechnics, it is just a dumping ground for university rejected folks.

Certificate doesn't determine success, it is about your determination, being diligent, dedicated, mindset and prayers. That I know but op has said the right thing, certificate goes a long way too, it is one side of the two sides of a coin and getting it right in that aspect matters. This is Nigeria, The firm I worked during IT, the University engineering graduates were paid far better than the polytechnic engineer (current reality) , I posted an article that explains the difference, a diploma is different from a degree, let that sink in, rarely will u see applications that call for HND graduates in GT. No wonder shell and other top firms equate it to Third class Bsc. My current place of work is an engineering firm, a top one in Abuja and they don't even employ any HND graduates.

The sad truth we can't shy away from, the dichotomy can't end even if the government equates the two today, firms will still go for Bsc over HND. You can't just sit down and compare the two.

Even when it comes to scholarship for undergraduates and postgraduate rarely will u see for HND or poly students, PTDF, shell, Chevron etc are for university students and graduates.


This debate will go on and on, for those trying to rubbish universities first class products, you guys should continue but try remembering you dump to polytechnic because u can't pass the entrance examinations.

To compare HND to BSc is to say the polytechnic is the same as university and that's talking with tongue in one cheek.

spare the debate and let's move on to other things. if you are already in polytechnic, face your studies, graduate with good grade, get professional courses and try to get your masters and come and join the hustle. But if u are just through with ND or just seeking admission.


GET A UNIVERSITY DEGREE......

Whether Education is scam or not, Get a University degree and don't listen to crap.

subzero2:
Keep quiet my friend.
Ranting as if you're the recruiter

No vex sir.
Kindly apply with your third class, PGD, Msc and PHD.

Innoyyyy:
Please why is it that only Bsc are eligible, what of HND?

Welcome to Nigeria where the HND certificate is discriminated against and it is not given consideration. Only GTB can answer your question.... you can mail them.

subzero2:
Can someone with with a third class, but with Pgd and Msc apply too?

I believe you can read the criteria clearly. Nigerians won't always follow instructions, it is ET, they don't need all the PGD and M.Sc certificate just the BSc 2.2 Minimum. But since there is no harm in trial you can apply, but don't come and complain when u don't get mail for invitation. That was how some 2.2 people I know were complaining Union Bank didn't shortlist them when the criteria was clearly 2.1 minimum.
I am not discouraging u but just being factual.

martinsoreoluwa:
but I discovered dat after the application was submitted.....i did not get any message in my mailbox.

That is not a must, as long as you saw it on their website that your application is successful then you are safe.

Even the ongoing Diamond Bank recruitment, people didn't get a mail after application. As long as you saw the pop up page of "successful application", you have applied and safe.

Done. Thanks op
The Hustle continues, Victoria ascerta

Since a lot of people will view this thread, I copied this article from nairaland concerning d same dichotomy, it answers the reason for the discrimination and the difference between HND and BSc certificate.

Read painstakingly;

Re: Shell Discrimination Of HND Holders, Equating Them
With Bsc Third Class. by fratermathy ( m): 2:10pm On Nov
10 , 2015
This is getting too old and stale.
While I do not support totally embarrassing HND graduates
and denying them of promotions, appointments and a
chance to make a successful career, it should be noted that
HND and B.Sc/B.A/B.Agric/B.Tech/LL.B/B.Fisheries/MBBS/
DVM are different and the dichotomy must be emphasised.
HND is a technical diploma. It is technically not even a
Degree but a National Diploma. B.Sc and its other
appellations are the recognised standard for academic,
theoretical and career based jobs and appointments. That is
not to say HND cannot be used. It is just that HND is better
off for handy middle-levelled and technical jobs/careers.
The whole essence of HND is to make sure that there are
middle-levelled skilled people in the society that can be
called upon and relied on for their technical expertise.
University graduates are seen as having done a theoretical
study with much intellectual rigour and are, thus, deemed to
have a high intellectual acuity for certain professions and
careers. This must be known and not relegated. No matter
how much sentiments come in and no matter how much we
try to equate these certifications, the sacrosanct fact is that
they are not the same. As long as one is a "Diploma" and
another is a "Degree", they can NEVER be treated equal and
same.
On the issue of Shell equating HND with Third Class, I have
iterated in the previous paragraph that HND is not seen as an
intellectually inclined degree but rather as a technically
inclined diploma. Having a Distinction in HND only proves
that you have an excellent technical expertise, perhaps even
beyond that of University Degree holders. However, this
does not translate into the fact that you are intellectually
buoyant enough to stand a University First Class product. It
doesn't add up. For one, our Nigerian Polytechnics operate a
4 points GPA system as opposed to the 5 Points used in our
Nigerian varsities. Secondly, the units of courses taken in
HND programmes are far lower, both individually and
cumulatively, when compared with a University. Thirdly, the
course contents in Polytechnics are peripheral and
elementary as opposed to that of a University! Fourthly, the
calibre of academic staff and their standing is much lower
than that of a University. For one, a Polytechnic cannot have
a Professorial Cadre! Polytechnics usually have substandard
facilities and make-shift labs and instruments. All these
come together to haunt the graduates of Nigerian
Polytechnics!
The solution to all these bifurcations is easy. Polytechnics
should be made to award a B.Tech rather than an "Ordinary"
or "Higher" diploma. Polytechnic facilities should be
overhauled and made to standards. The Professorial Cadre,
alongside its competitive and cumbersome "floating"
process, should be introduced to the Polytechnics.
Polytechnics should employ the 5 or more Points GPA
system and courses should be well developed, standard and
carry higher units! In fact, the term "Polytechnic" should be
hijacked from parlance and replaced with University of
Technology or any other soothing appellation. We should
always strive to follow the UK pattern in our technological
pedagogical system.
Finally, on the issue of ostracization and stigmatization, I
believe it is only Nigerian Legislative Bodies that can end
this once and for all. As long as they are comfortable with it,
nothing will change! Let's just stop flogging this issue and
look forward to better things! This issue has been discussed,
ignited and quenched severally since Nigerian employers'
decisions to employ preferential treatments! It is time we
either take drastic measures or simply let it go as we have
always done.



To save yourself of future headache, get a university degree.

HND certificate, That Shell said the certificate is equivalent to Third class BSc.... The dichotomy is unending, It is better to go to the University and save yourself of future stress and stigmatization. That was how in the Ondo state Judiciary, the Chief Judge created a policy and the Bsc were to head all departments and stations, one man who is an HND holder for years in one of the courts retired, guess why, his son Bsc Holder who he helped process the job and who has spent barely three years in the system will now be heading the station where he is working.....Tufiakwa

To save yourself from drama, long stories, stigmatization and a whole lot, get a university degree.

Spylord48:
I applied for Npower two times yet I wasn't selected.
I applied for Diamond bank again yet nothing plus numerous others. This 2017 came with hope for me but as it stands now i will end it empty handed with the hope all but lost.But I know 2018 won't be like this 2017, all these lost hopes must surely be restored back.

Don't give up bro, better days ahead. Winners don't quit.

RealityShot:
just heard of a school where staff are paid 15k..

Now they are owing them november salary and telling them that no pay till january ending...!!

how do dey expect those people to survive from nov to february 1st with 15k?!

heartless people everywhere in nigeria!

This is barbaric, atrocious and uncalled for.
How did we arrive at this point??, most of these jobs are just modern day slavery....A failed and shambolic system.

Religion has brainwashed a lot of folks, it is slavery, it is inhumane and it takes away the human rationale, the belief in one deity and living life based on one outdated and irrelevant principle makes it bad. Am surprised even the educated and civilised human being are held under its captive, primitive folks will live their entirety on the fables and lies. It is ignominy and despicable.

She knows the rule before venturing there and now she is wailing under the auspices of a concocted and archaic religion principles.

Total crap.....

mydas01:
If thats the case,what will you say of first bank...after the exam ,i know people who just decided to forget about it...its been about 12 months now.

12 Months, This Job wahala na die

RealityShot:
lol.. Wow!

but thats quite possible..some business owners a just too greedy.

thing is..they have the yam and the knife; you have none... What precarious situation Nigerians are in daily

Exactly imagine a company that generates millions of naira but staff are underpaid due to the owner greediness. This country is a den, it takes a lot to survive.

lavenjcrown:
Facing same issue here, have been working here for the past two years with salary of 13,200. NNPC for that matter. God please let your will be done.

13,200 keh, what is your qualifications??

deewhydoski:
Which kind of thread is this....na birthday den dey celebrate for here

Hahahahahahahahahaha, from a job thread to birthday wishes thread, make una continue.

Man Utd 2 Man City 1

Anyone with the recent GMAT can help send to busayobb2016@gmail.com. I will appreciate that a lot. Thanks

Khalifa22:
From my own perception, i think there are some basic data they need and some requirements for the Graduate trainee programme.
I once worked in a bank and i get to know they don't shortlist State Universities graduate.

So this might be the same...Maybe The schools you graduate from, age..class of degree....Experience or so

What's the reason for not shortlisting State University graduates? Those guys are good too now.

Jesusgirl92:
Ehen.... Ogun standard ke . Collecting 10k from job seekers is what OGUN STANDARD is all about......?? Nna mennn!!! I hail o.

I tire dear, I tire. Job that pays really well sef na Free of charge not to talk of civil service job. 10k OGUN standard. That's pathetic.

So are we saying everything Is a scam and the recruitment is a ponzi scheme....

itsmeurLady:
Please someone help out with this question of mine, I studied biochemistry so wat should I put as my specialization... should it be the healthcare/pharmacy one or something different... I saw QA/QC there also please help me out , it's urgent as I need to submit my application today

Hello, I can't find Biochemistry among the listed courses in the job advert, however you can give it a trial so long u have the required grade, You don't need a specialization. It is a graduate trainee job, they will fit you into the department where you will be trained. I hope this helps.

omotola123:
They keep extending the deadline... is it that people didn't submit for the vacancy?? May God help us

Amen dear. From 15th to 23rd to 30th. It is quite clear, people are getting tired of job applications and Dragnet are a bit slow in Job processing.

itsmeurLady:
Already sent my qualifications to the mail... Which one am I seeing dragnet again??

Don't too worry, the firm should send your details to dragnet. Anyway I send my CV first to the company but later applied via dragnet. They are now in charge of the recruitment.

Enkay12:
I got another invite for their test.

Is it for the same EcoBank or another firm??

martinsfm:
Do people get paid for being whatsapp admins?

Who knows if they are adding that to their CV profile.
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