₦airaland Forum

Debroslink: yes He was God. no? Tell me how a virgin became pregnant without natural order called sex?

Keep it simple please Yes or no. Was Jesus God in the womb of Mary?

^^^See question above.

benalvino: dude am a Trinidadian you get... I can quote verses for you that Tells you Jesus is God... This one i gave you Phil shows Jesus was God before he became flesh... so How can marry be mother of God when the God was already God from the beginning John 1:1 and he created the world she is in.

Was Jesus God while in the womb of Mary?

alexleo: I preach that it is the Holy Spirit that has a perfect interpretation of the scripture. that any of us can bend the scriptures to suite our selfish interests and desires thats why need to rely on the Holy Spirit who has the perfect interpretation. This is what i preach. Refer me to any place i preached other wise that i may be shamed and publicly apologise here.

Please tell me why you think the people saying the prayer in question(which they got from the bible), did not rely on the Holy Spirit to teach them. And why you think the Holy Spirit is the one teaching you.

benalvino: read phil 2:6.... Jesus is God but if he exist before marry gave birth to him as human how is she the mother of God? you people need to think. cant you ask your self how she is not God but gave birth to God? think man...

So phil2:6 now refutes John1:1,John1:14. Do I believe you've not read it? Or John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am". Is Jesus God? please no buts...Let the truth set you free.

alexleo: Now you ve joined your brother italo to lie against me. Kindly get one place i made such comment as you have said and post it here to shame me and i will apologize. We cant rely on the interpretation of your Pope if thats what you are driving at. We cannot sir.

Please repeat that you do not preach private interpretation of scripture.

benalvino: Can marry be the mother of God who exist long before she was born?
can she be the mother of God who created the earth and her father and mother adam and eve?
why are the other siblings Jesus have not God?

Hahaha, Is Jesus God? Simple question.

alexleo: The old testament was a time of law. A time of do me i do you. When Jesus came with the gospel of grace he taught us to forgive, not seven times but seventy times seven(which means keep forgiving and forgiving). To turn the other cheek when someone slaps you rather than slapping back as it used to be in the old testament, to love your enemy and pray for them that persecute you. Havent you read it in the bible? Did it say we should pray for madness and poverty upon our enemies? If i pray such prayer against you will you clap for me? This is a simple matter but you catholics wants to use it against those of us who preaches against your image worship. Go ahead sir.

I know what I preach. It is what you preach that is haunting you. You say every one can read and privately interprete scripture, today there is chaos, everyone is right while others are wrong due to what you preach. You are now the authority of scripture interpretation.
It is Psalm 109, it is scriptural! They interpreted it in their own way and found no problem with it, in accordance with your preaching. Why condemn them?

benalvino: the bible will only decide if you agree with it... like it says never use a carved object to worship God... but caths do it... they use doll baby to do what the bible says not to do...

One God, 3 distinct persons... father, son and holy spirit.., marry mother of god means mother of the father, mother of the son, mother of the holy spirit.

It is not how much words you speak, but how much sense you make. Please do not lie against the bible.

Simple question, Is Jesus God? Let the truth set you free.

benalvino: Let the bible decide bro...
let the bible be the instrument.
anyone that says their religion is the one truth faith are desperate... all of them.
let the bible decide who is the truth minister...
we are not both right... the bible backs my ministering so what backs yours? show us where marry is called queen of heaven? or mother of God?

If the bible will decide, why do you condemn those who read Psalm 109.

Are you saying Jesus is not God?

Boomark: Ok o. I have not seen your own light. The word of God is light not church candle light.

Is that it? Thought there was going to be an earth shaking revelation from the bible my Church Fathers gave to the world in 393AD.
I gave you my "Ten Thesis", truth as they are, you couldn't even fault any. I ask you again, Is that it?

It seems no other person here is convinced about his religion than Italo. Bro Italo, I am with you in this Conviction.

*Just observation from the posts o*.

Boomark:
Are you now so afraid of me or afraid to be exposed?

Which interpretations do you want believe, the one from your church fathers? That is why are not sure of yourself. You can invite one of your fathers so we can discuss those verses while you watch. ie if you are not capable?

hahahaha, I have lit a lamp! I have lit a lamp! Why all this shout, If you have lit a lamp, says Syncan to Boomark,let it shine to the world to see (Lk11:33), why do you need a prodding.

Boomark: You cannot hate me. The one that corrects should be shown more love.

I have already seen how out-of-context your quotes in 9 are. Quote them with your explanations and i will show you what actually pleases our beloved. You must not switch to Paul's handky or shadow untill you get them(no 9) right.

I hear say you wan connect to God through an image. That means, what Jesus said about worshiping God in spirit no complete without images of unknown people?

Now you want to give me your own interpretation to what my beloved said, yet you told there is no qualm in my hearing his words and interpreting it on my own. Why are you so shifty? I am happy my beloved is not like you, oh "Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee. ..." song of solomon4:7.

striktlymi: Morning Sync,



Okay, cool!



I agree to some degree but the society did not just tolerate, they see it as not being against morals. I have learnt to appreciate various cultures and their sense of morality...

What the Christian might call fornication might just be what the next culture esteem as perfectly good.

In our sample society, we should realize that there would be kids who would be brought up to believe that there is nothing wrong with being gay.

We know only too well the level of influence a society can exert on children and their belief system...considering this, it won't be out of place to say that there would be people who would practice the gay act without knowing that it is wrong.



The case for the unmarried women is really not peculiar to gays only as I have pointed out before. We can't say that heterosexuals should stop getting married because some persons feel jealous and resentful...its just normal.

I agree that the historian called it fashion but you should realize that fashion is still part of culture...culture is the way of life of a people...we can't rule out the way the people view fashion as not being part of their culture or way of life.



Okay, cool!

Ignorance of the law is no excuse for those who are old enough to get a copy of this law and read them. But do note that what one society considers to be good laws might be frowned at by another society.

The law in itself is a subjective measure...like for our sample community, being gay is not against the law or any moral...so when one performs the act, he or she is not against any known law.

Anyways, Jesus himself has given us reasons to believe that ignorance can be an excuse in God's way of judging.

"Father forgive them for they know not what they do". Though some of your arguments I can puncture quite easily,I will not deny that I understand you very well as you can see from the bold. However I have understood that not all laws can a man be Ignorant of, except through his own fault,for St. Paul says it is written in our hearts (Rom2:14). Case includes "Honour your father and mother", "Thou shall not commit Adultery" etc. It indeed still remains academic to me that a person could have same sex with clear conscience, and never having heard or known it to be wrong. If such exists,I hope God forgives, "for they know not what they do". Thanks.

Boomark: Paul never tied his handkerchief on any thing to bow and kneel before it just because God worked through it.

Why can't you make images of the bronze snake and mount it in your church or home for healing purposes?

All your comparisons made no sense. Our God hates idol worship, whether you are doing it in a modern way or with style. Idol worship is idol worship. Very different from worship in spirit.

Dearest Brethren. The Gospel preached today by the Holy Catholic Church, is a Gospel that has Love(Agape) as it's key. We love God above all things and we love our neighbors too.

1.No one can accuse a lover, physically absent from the beloved, of not having Love because the lover does not have the beloved Images, nor does the presence of the Images in the lover's possession, signify a greater love at all times.

2. It is however erroneous to accuse a lover of cheating or creating a new beloved by his/her possession of the Image of the beloved.

3. The beloved have never been known to be disapproval of the possession of their Images by their lover

4. Hugging and kissing are acceptable public show of affection to a beloved. (I surprised my beloved once, met her sleeping, a framed Image of me just a few inches from her body, I knew she must have been clutching it close to her heart. I guess you know how I felt...I was definitely not angry). It is no qualm when applied to their Images.

5. Bowing, kneeling etc are things we do to fellow men, do I understand that it is allowed to worship men?

6. You ask why don't we make Images of snake, I answer that We make images of our beloved once.

7. When I say that the Image of my beloved does not replace my beloved, and I am not at rest till I meet my beloved face to face, please believe me.

8. Please understand that any disrespect done to the Image of my beloved hurts me in some way, no matter how small it is.

9. You say my beloved told me not to make any Image and you showed me where(Ex20:4-5), and I say that it meant more than that, for my beloved told me to make Images and I showed you where (Ex25:19,Num7:89).

10. You accuse me, You accuse me, Yet for almost two thousand years, my beloved have shown kindness to me, answering when I call, even with signs and wonders, making me do great things out of love. That's why even though you accuse me unfairly, I still Love You.

^^^You wont believe it, I'm actually Laughing out loud.

Tgirl4real: @ Syncan,

If u can't see the purpose of this thread as it relates to my exchanges with Italo, I laugh @ ur ignorance. Cos he quoted one scripture, does that mean he understands or teach the message of Christ? What you do is selective reading. May be when you read the first post u will understand.

Oh I am Ignorant now, Ok, I see even the Italo has bid you bye, let me also do same. I leave you in peace.

alexleo: You are making noise. Who said they are not bible believing? You ve not contributed to the issue at hand. We are not here to defend catholic or any church. Contribute or back out. Nothing wrong with backing out.

Why are you complaining about a "Bible believing" church reading Psalm 109? Well since you don't want me on your post, I am "backing out".

Tgirl4real: Thanks bruv.

But why didn't u reply directly.

@ Syncan,
It will do you good if you can go back and read clearly and while you are at it, you ask Flourishg to explain his post.

Your question

Tgirl4real: Can you tell us what you teach as the message of the cross?

His answer

italo: Christ has said it all...

Matt 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

And we accept it.

Unlike some who would say "it is not my portion."

Your agreement

Tgirl4real: OK. Good.

Derail begins:

Tgirl4real: Do you get direct access to God through your salvation in Christ Jesus?

Still a simple answer:

italo: Yes.

Now how does this relate to the message at hand, while others have not even given their own message.

Tgirl4real: OK.

Where does Mary come in then?

flourisG gave you an assignment which you accepted...well so I believed by your silence. If you didn't understand him, you should have asked for clarification. Why tell me to ask him? He posted on your thread.

italo: What's wrong with that? I thought you were of the opinion that anybody can interpret the Christian faith any way they please. That's their own interpretation. Why do you declare it "bad?" Who made you a judge or authority over them?

Exactly! Are they no longer a "Bible believing" Church? The last time I checked, they call themselves that.

shdemidemi: My friend, Christ would not come for denomination or Roman Catholic Church at rapture. He would come for the believers of the gospel.

All of these denominations have the scriptures as their guide, if they are missing it, the Word of God remains true. Why don't you check it to know what God is really saying, the scripture says you shall know the truth and the truth you know shall set you free.

Which of the Gospels? According to you there are two, and most of those I know here fall into your category of "Judaizers". Will he come for "Judaizers" as well?

Tgirl4real: Thanks. I was about referring him to read scriptures to know what the real gospel is. Oh! I forgot. We don't have the same bible.

Any objective person will see that your questions/argument are faulty and baseless.

If you can't see the answer in my responses to, then I can't help you. Sorry.

What scriptures are you referring him to? He gave you what his church teaches as the message of the cross didn't he? You did agree with him, did you not? By the way, you who are puffed up in pride, note that your description of the message of the cross did not go down well with flourishG hence he gave you an assignment:

flourishG: ^Go thru all the words of Christ on da cross(7 of them) n let the new testament do exegesis on those words and you will perfectly understand the 'message' of the cross.it is contained in the last words of Christ,revealed to the apostles by the resurrected christ.that's an assignment for u.

It may interest you to note that he and shdemidemi includes you as "Judaizers", you may need to ascertain that before you include yourself among the believers he is talking about. Let me not talk about how quick you moved into chasing shadows so quickly away from the message you started.

striktlymi: Hmmmm...I see your point but let's analyze your findings...

1.From the above, we can see that the people do not regard homosexuality in itself as morally wrong...it is accepted by the community...


2.For the case of the single ladies being jealous, I will take that as a none issue because even with heterosexual relationships, we see ladies who are jealous because of the attention being shown to their female friends by males...


3.The above really does not state that Taoist see homosexuality as wrong...Taoists have a god they call 'the rabbit god' who fell in love with a man and is kind of like the patron god for homosexuals.



4.Homosexuality in all its form is WRONG!!! But whether an individual would be punished for this goes beyond what we see as wrong, but what the individual 'know' to be wrong...for some of the cases above, homosexuality is not regarded as a morally unacceptable act.

Thanks for your response.I have tagged the above as still grey since we agreed on the others:

1. What I see in those places are a tolerance for it and not acceptance as right. It's just like the society tolerate what we call fornication in the christian parlance. Not that any tradition supports it as right.

2. Had the unmarried ladies grown up with the acceptance that some men are to be with fellow men, It wouldn't have warranted a situation strong enough to be recorded in history that "Resentful unmarried women became jealous". Be sure to note that the historian called it a "Fashion" and not a "culture", More so note the use of "became" in his narrative.

3. I think the answer to the second question of musKeeto above will take care of this, so I'll wait for that answer.

4. Ignorance of the law under which you are, does not seem an excuse to me. Well...For God I still leave the judgement anyway.

striktlymi: Cool!!!

Bro, here is what I was afraid of:

1. Ancient China- "Writings from the Liu Song Dynasty claimed that homosexuality was as common as heterosexuality in the late 3rd century: All the gentlemen and officials esteemed it. All men in the realm followed this fashion to the extent that husbands and wives were estranged. Resentful unmarried women became jealous".[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_China

2. Ancient Greek- "...however, was seen as demeaning for the passive partner, and outside the socially accepted norm.[6]
"Given the importance in Greek society of cultivating the masculinity of the adult male and the perceived feminizing effect of being the passive partner, relations between adult men of comparable social status were considered highly problematic, and usually associated with social stigma"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece

3. Tao religion - "All major religions in ancient China have some sort of codex, which have traditionally been interpreted as being against exclusive homosexuality when it interferes with continuation of the family lineage..."
http://history.cultural-china.com/en/171History11947.html

The above raises a red flag in my head, it could be a trend at a time but I still doubt if it was ever right.

striktlymi: Afternoon Sync,

Apologies for seemingly 'brushing off' your second post...my intent was different...



You are right, no one has any excuse for not doing what is right because like you suggested, 'natural laws' are firmly entrenched in the heart of every individual.

However, the principles of right or wrong conduct varies in each society and before the evolution of morality there have been some inherently wrong acts which were 'overlooked' by even God himself.

Lets take the case of Abram as an example. He took up another wife at the request of Sarai...God never condemned him for doing that but if we do it today, it would be regarded as adultery and the individual would be in danger of losing his/her soul.


In ancient China and some other communities, homosexuality is not seen as a morally reprehensible act...even some sect in taoism do not see it as a sin against God...

Nah mehn...it's not about being intolerant; I get put off when someone implies a different meaning from my comments.

Lol!!!

You don't need my permission to defer from my views...I also express my disagreements with some viewpoints when it is appropriate.

I will not talk about Abram and his other wife,'cos we all saw God's stand there. But I thank you for the bolded, will do a little study on that.

PhenomenonVFX: ^^^Dude, u I understand. What u are saying in essence is that the OP's assertion is just Striklym's imagination and his own personal sentiment and that he has nothing scriptural to back it up with. I totally get u. That is why I directed my above comment which u quoted to Bizmahn. I dont seem to get the dude. He is just arguing with emotions. Unless u and Bizmahn are one and the same.

As to Striklymi's lack of scriptural backing, I think he has provided one or two passages to back up his sentiments. He is saying that God doesnt deal in white and black like we humans do. There are so many grey areas which God takes into account. Hence the statement: “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."

I only called your attention because of your earlier post, when he addressed me saying "Never mind". Since you understand, me that's cool. However, I really am not asking for scriptural backing, since he stated it clearly that he is not talking about those bound by the scriptures. I will rather not go into the scripture quoted so as not to waste time on the obvious(which he knows). No, I am taking his cue, so I left scripture and went to nature. The proof I need is for him to show me any society where homosexuality was practiced as what is right to do. It could be common at a time but you need to tell me it was accepted as right. If it was not accepted as right by any societal or natural law,then it is wrong, and any one practicing it is breaking the law. As per not going to heaven,I am not God and will not sentence.

abagoro: Why do we Africans have slave mentality? If it were in a Church or Mosque many of you would write all these. IMHO African religion is more real and adheres to the principle of obedience to law and agreement more than Christianity and Islam.

Oga abeg wetin de my post wey suggest slave mentality?

*note that I toned down my English, lest it is the problem*

Hahaha, The light of the nation never fail to amaze me. Lets leave the booths in the Shrine, after the elections lets know where rigging and ballot box snatching took place, the booths at the shrine or those elsewhere, Lol.

* I can see everything turning around....*

PhenomenonVFX: @bizmahn
What I seem to understand from the OP is that it asserts that every sin committed in ignorance will most likely be forgiven by God. He gave homosexuality as an example to make his point but he extends it to every other sin.
"Any sin committed in ignorance will not be held against the sinner" is what it seems to be saying.
Now I dont believe in biblical folktales, like the story of Soddom and Gomorrah, but indulge me for a moment. In that story, we are NOT told that the people committed their sins in ignorance. It was like they knew what they were doing was wrong and I doubt homosexuality was d only wrong thing they were doing. Even when the angels came to visit Lot, they wanted to r.ape the angels. That means they would have still rap.ed visiting women also. For Lot not wanting to give the angels to them shows that he knew what was right from wrong. That shows that most of the men there knew the same too. They just wanted to r.ape the men. If ra.ping of men had been a usual practice there I dont think Lot would have settled there because they would have raped him too. Or maybe they did
But the OP is talking about a situation when the gays know no better. Such as is the case in some ancient cultures where homosexuality is norm.
So u see u are the one reading this all wrong. Or maybe it is me.

Kindly do me the favor of going through my post again and point out what shows my non comprehension of his position. I fully understand his position but is it not debatable? If he is talking about right and wrong, then he is talking about law.There is what is called natural law, which lies in the heart of men, one cannot be ignorant of this. My Position is that I believe this natural law does not permit homosexuality as right in any society. I asked him to prove to me that it did. I only tired to participate in the debate but he seemed intolerant to a different opinion, so I bounced...until I read yours. Just to clear up things, striktlymi I understand you, I have liked some of your posts else where, but do permit me sometimes to differ from you.

shdemidemi: I believe all these people are connected to you by flesh. The flesh has its emotions through our body members and our five senses. when it comes to the issue of spirituality, only a believer has this spiritual nature in addition with the flesh/natural/adamic nature. Therefore, we as believers can see things from two angles- through flesh or through the spirit.

My question is what is the relationship between you and the image- Is it just from the flesh, that is, no spiritual connotation attached or by the spirit?

In as much as I do not want to make a mince meat of the above statement based on what I understood of it,(I'll rather leave it for now) the ones in bold is your conclusion on my connection with those in my post which includes Jesus and Mary. I wonder what you want me to answer again, or are you asking me my connection with the inanimate "work of art" representing these people?

shdemidemi: Mind your words, answer the question directed to you if you would--

The question is what connects you to these images you reverence?

Flesh or Spirit?

Sorry for any offense, non Intended. Do help me out here, people special to me includes my Dad(late), mum and siblings,Nelson Mandela,Martin Luther king jr.(late), Pope John Paul 11(late),etc. I posses their Images as well as the ones you mentioned. Help me with my connection to these, Is it Flesh or Spirit?

Also note that I added the flag of my nation in my earlier post.