₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus:
as i said, so many quotable words, no definite position taken.

His position is that of the synod. That speech was an admonition from a watchman.

Ubenedictus:
technicaly, they are still catholics in a sense.

I am not necessarily inclined toward sedesvacantism, actually i reject the ideology, but i'm gradually learning that there is a gem of truth in most lie, crude oil is black and totally useless in itself. The most stupid stuff people believe are usually important to them and most times it is important you look at things from their skewed glassed so you can show them why you are sure your own glass is clearer.

See as you mouth de shake @ bold.

jnrbayano:
I wanted to shout but something gagged me.

No mind them.

Kamsified:
Seconded. Or at least they live close to each other

Na your own be that, supporter, nke obuna you'll support. E nwero m okwu where you de.

babestell:
SalC and Syncan are husband and wife.

O kwa gi bu babestell, guerrilla fighter, throw bomb and run away is your style, i tupula this one. If I vex now, you'll hear your complete name announced in mater for a mass you didn't book.

hurricaneChris:
I'm choosing 26th! It's a very significant day.

Looking forward to that day.

"But all who listen to me will live in peace, untroubled by fear of harm"-----Prov 1:33

As we unite in prayers for you today, may God's love cover you like a mantle.

SalC:
I no get strength for you this early morning, on a very good day.....

To sing na wahala again?

italo:
No worry. Time go come for you to talk, no be now.

*singing* Surulere...

SalC:
Did she? If she tries that again just let me know and I will deal with her

hmmm...my first encounter with split personality.

SalC:
It's too early for me to spread mat atop your matter,

Shey you know say your dey find my wahala

See as she threatens me this early morning.

MariaGoretti:
ok.....I pick 25th

"He gives power to the weak and strength to the powerless. Even youths will become weak and tired, and young men will fall in exhaustion.
But those who trust in the Lord will find new strength.They will soar high on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary.They will walk and not faint"---Jer 40:29-31

As we unite in prayers for you today, may the Lord uphold you with His right arm.

italo:
Your own na to spread mat for other people tori.

If na you now you no go talk anything.

Good morning.

No mind am jare.

italo:
There was a crowd...but I'm finally zooming in on someone. It's looking good.

I hope it goes well, if it's God's will.

Your steps will be guided by Divine light.

italo:
Lol.

Guy, I once recommended someone for you, how far na?

italo:
Ah! Allow me to rephrase.

They are being uncatholic in those actions.

Just like I consider myself uncatholic in my actions when I contravene the precepts of the Church.

Hope I'm free now. Lol.

bros.

italo:
I agree. It must be very painful for such a parent. But a Catholic mind should not remaim brooding over anything.

I agree. As humans, we are susceptible to making rash and often wrong decisions and actions when we are wounded. But a Catholic mind should not persist in wrong.

I have heard of parents who insist on ostracizing such a child even when their priest advices them to love and pray for the child.

To err is not the problem, but to be obstinate in error.

A Catholic mind knows that a sincere non-Catholic is more pleasing to God than an insincere Catholic. So if that Child is sincere in his faith, he/she could be closer to God/heaven than the other child who follows you to daily mass but is insincere in his faith.

We are talking about abandoning the faith.

Peter abandoned, even denied the Lord. The prodigal son abandoned, even rejected the father.

How did Jesus and the Father react?

God can help everybody with similar circumstances react like him, if they allow him. Of this I'm sure.

May God help us.

I am glad you talked about "remain brooding" and "persist in wrong", that's why being quick to use it as an example of what makes one "uncatholic" isn't the best.

"This is the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and composed of sinners, needful of God’s mercy. This is the Church, the true bride of Christ, who seeks to be faithful to her spouse and to her doctrine"....Pope Francis.

elampiro:
So what have you been saying since? So now you want to admit that there could be a false Pope that will lead many faithful astray? Is this not what I told you the bible said and I gave your verses?

Arguing with you is waste of time because you are not steady.

Again no proof. Liar!

SalC:
May the Holy Spirit lead.

Amen Amen, let's continue to pray for God's direction on the Pope, and listen to him, he is the shepherd, the vicar of Christ.

elampiro:
LOL. You are redefining my questions. You have lost it completely. Shame on you.

It's your choice to defend gospel truth or falsity. We all have souls that will have to answer to God in accordance to His commandments.

What does the bold even mean, with respect to my post? I think am done with you at this point, 'cos am becoming suspicious of your mental state now.

elampiro:
How could it happen that a validly-elected Pope could become the false prophet (an invalid pope or an anti-pope)?

Pope Paul IV’s Papal Bull Cum ex Apostolatus Officio teaches that if anyone was a heretic before the Papal election, he could not be a valid Pope, even if he is (validly) elected unanimously by the Cardinals.

As well, Canon 188.4 (1917 Code of Canon Law) states that if a cleric (pope, bishop, etc.) becomes a heretic, he loses his office, without any declaration, by operation of law.

St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Antonius, St. Francis de Sales, St. Alphonsus Liguori, and many other theologians all taught that a heretic cannot be a valid pope.

“If however, God were to permit a pope to become

a notoriously and contumacious heretic,

he would by such fact cease to be pope,

and the apostolic chair would be vacant.”

St. Alphonsus Liguori, Church Doctor





...........................


And the ITK Syncan told us lies that it is not possible for a Pope to be heretic. That whatever a Pope says is scripture even if it deviates from bible.

Syncan appalling appetite to defend Pope has made him to be blinded to the basic gospel truth. Syncan telling lies since time immemorial. Sycan, are you a born liar?

Please prove the bold. It seems lying is like breathing to you.

elampiro:

Your likes thought so about Fatima children and Divine Mercy which Vatican banned and later realized they made a grave mistake

The False Prophet the bible said will cause the most wicked deceit is the one that will take over the church as stated in Mathew 24 and other scripture passages.

Innumerable are the souls deceived by false prophets, the church as a careful mother, tests every spirit as commanded in the Scripture. Staying with her, you run no risk of "try your luck" with your life.

elampiro:
I dismantled you position everywhere. Your position is nothing but defence of Pope Francis who is dismantling the Catholic church layer by layer. The whole world know him for the Pope who wants to change the church teachings.

Ok. so it is with you. The readers should decide, I am here to expose lies.

elampiro:
Number 2 as explained by the CCC said it's a disorder. But Francis said it's not a problem. The church is talking about treating the tendencies, but Bergoglio is saying it's fine.

You are yet to answer why Pope Francis open a Synod to try and change the number 1.

Stop telling lies. The readers are not daft.

elampiro:
You are blinded by blind obedience to anything from the Vatican.

You avoided the questions because you know the answers will expose your falsity and Pope Francis desire to change the church teachings on communion for the divorce, cohabitation and homosexuality.

The Pope did not address the confusion of the Synod. He allowed the the confusion and bad proposals to be carried on for a year unto next next Synod even though they were voted down. Did he not suppose to clarify and defend the faith as well as deleting the immoral issues.

I don't like lumping up my posts in this manners, it's a very good escape tatics to hide your confusion.

I am obedient to the Church, the Pillar and foundation of truth, not to false prophets like you do.

If I avoided your question, will I ask you to repeat them properly?

What is the next synod about?

elampiro:
Now let me expose Pope 'Who am I to judge'.


Behind closed doors, pope supported civil unions in Argentina, activist says
By Rafael Romo, Jose Manuel Rodriguez and Catherine E. Shoichet,
March 21, 2013 -- Updated 1822 GMT (0222 HKT)

Buenos Aires (CNN) -- Less than an hour after he fired off an angry letter to Catholic Church leaders about their handling of Argentina's same-sex marriage debate, Marcelo Marquez says his phone rang.
He was surprised to hear the voice on the other end of the line. It was Jorge Mario Bergoglio, then the archbishop of Buenos Aires, and now the pope.

What Bergoglio said to him at a meeting soon afterward that year, 2010, was even more surprising, Marquez said.
For months, church officials had made sharp, public criticisms of the push to legalize same-sex marriage in the South American country. But privately, Bergoglio seemed to be more open to discussion, according to Marquez. "He told me. ... 'I'm in favor of gay rights and in any case, I also favor civil unions for homosexuals, but I believe that Argentina is not yet ready for a gay marriage law," said Marquez, a gay rights activist, a self-described devout Catholic and a former theology professor at a Catholic seminary.

The pope's reported willingness behind-the-scenes to accept civil unions as a compromise may offer new insight into how he will lead the world's 1.2 billion Catholics.

A public battle
As archbishop of Buenos Aires, Bergoglio was one of the leaders of the Catholic Church's public charge against legalizing same-sex marriage in Argentina. He engaged in a notorious war of words with the government of President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, who supported the measure.
Bergoglio put himself in the middle of the fight, calling the proposed legislation "a destructive attack on God's plan."

With a front-page counterpunch, the president said the church possessed "attitudes reminiscent of medieval times and the Inquisition."
Some point to the public battle as evidence of Bergoglio's traditionalist views.
But behind closed doors, Marquez said, the man who would become pope appeared to be more open to discussion of the issue. In another meeting, Bergoglio told him he had always treated gay people with respect and dignity.

"I have accompanied many homosexual people during my career to tend to their spiritual needs," Bergoglio said at the time, according to Marquez. Pope was 'very open, very frank'
Bergoglio, who chose the name Pope Francis after he was elected pontiff last week, may have voiced his support for civil unions in other circles.

Andres Albertsen, a former pastor of the Danish Church in Buenos Aires, said Bergoglio made similar comments about civil unions to him in a private meeting.
"In this conversation that we had, he showed himself to be very open, very frank with me," Albertsen told CNN en Español on Wednesday. "He told me that he would have accepted a civil union."[/b]

According to a story published by The New York Times on Wednesday, Bergoglio also told bishops at a 2010 meeting that the church should support civil unions for gay couples.
CNN could not independently confirm the details of the Argentine bishops' meeting, which was also described[b] in a July 2010 article published by Argentina's Clarin newspaper.
"Bergoglio -- faithful to his moderate position -- proposed continuing measured actions. ... He would suggest, also, that the church discreetly accept the intermediate alternative of the civil union -- authorizing a series of rights (inheritance, social work) -- that would not equate to marriage nor permit adoption," wrote journalist Sergio Rubin -- now Bergoglio's biographer.[/b]
But that proposal was rejected by bishops, who voted instead to begin a high-profile, public battle against same-sex marriage, Rubin wrote.
Pushing for dialogue
A senior Vatican official said he could neither confirm nor deny The New York Times report at this point, adding that while Pope Francis might have expressed such a view while he was a cardinal, he should be given time to develop his policy position as pontiff.
Alejandro Russo, the rector of the Metropolitan Cathedral in Buenos Aires, said it was unlikely the pope had ever expressed such a view, even in private.
In 2007, Bergoglio publicly criticized Buenos Aires' government for allowing civil unions, Russo said. His relationship with the mayor of Buenos Aires soured over the matter.
Gay rights advocates in Argentina later argued that civil unions, allowed in a several states, were a positive step that conferred some benefits to same-sex couples, but didn't go far enough. The same-sex marriage measure, they said, would treat homosexual and heterosexual relationships equally before the law. It would permit gay couples to adopt, and also allow the inheritance of property.
Argentina approved a law legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide in July 2010.
Even though Bergoglio was one of the law's most well known opponents, Marquez said on Wednesday that he hopes the pontiff will remain open to discussion, just as he appeared to be several years ago in Buenos Aires.
"We are going to try to have a dialogue with the pope," said Marquez, who works for Argentina's National Institute Against Discrimination. "It's frightening, but I think it must be done."
'He's really moderate on this issue'
Word of the pope's reported support for civil unions in Argentina sparked debate, with some praising his stance and saying it was a hopeful sign of possible reforms.
"He wanted to respect human rights. That's the real surprise here, that people say, well he's anti-gay. You can be anti-gay marriage and not be anti-gay, and I think there's a distinction here," said the Rev. Edward Beck, a CNN contributor and host of "The Sunday Mass" on ABC Family. "He's really moderate on this issue, it seems."
Others, though, were more skeptical.
One Argentine journalist said Wednesday that he wasn't quite ready to celebrate.
In an article titled, "Francis, the pope that declares war on us and later calls us on the phone," journalist Bruno Bimbi said it wasn't clear how the pope will handle the issue of same-sex unions.
"Maybe the lion has become a lamb. Maybe, as a priest told me the day his election was announced, maybe he is worried about his biography and wants to go down in history. I do not know," Bimbi wrote. "Whatever he does, this time he won't be able to blame others for the pressures. Now he's in charge."
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/20/world/americas/argentina-pope-civil-unions/


.......................................

Mr Syncan will still come and defend Bergolio even though the whole world knows his support for gay union.

Nonesense. You've raised this before somewhere else. Dem say, Dem say, slandering the Pope on Dem say. My Position still remains Same as:

https://www.nairaland.com/1446664/exclusive-interview-pope-francis/4#18416263

and

https://www.nairaland.com/1446664/exclusive-interview-pope-francis/4#18419704

SalC:
Is there really much to elaborate? From his beautiful speech up there, one would think the matter is settled but why retaining it for next year's synod? Isn't there other issues to be discussed? Isn't this issue discussed and voted on? That part is where I tend to think he's hoping for something else. Btw we know he too have been singing the mercy song too

Isn't it going to be a dead and buried subject if the general synod turns it down once and for all? Being where he is and knowing the pressures from all corners why wont he trust the Holy Spirit who spoke in this synod to speak in the general? Even if he hopes, let the Holy Spirit lead. Did Jesus not sing the mercy song too?

And since it is a journey of human beings, with the consolations there were also moments of desolation, of tensions and temptations, of which a few possibilities could be mentioned:


- One, a temptation to hostile inflexibility, that is, wanting to close oneself within the written word, (the letter) and not allowing oneself to be surprised by God, by the God of surprises, (the spirit); within the law, within the certitude of what we know and not of what we still need to learn and to achieve. From the time of Christ, it is the temptation of the zealous, of the scrupulous, of the solicitous and of the so-called – today – “traditionalists” and also of the intellectuals.

-The temptation to a destructive tendency to goodness [it. buonismo], that in the name of a deceptive mercy binds the wounds without first curing them and treating them; that treats the symptoms and not the causes and the roots. It is the temptation of the “do-gooders,” of the fearful, and also of the so-called “progressives and liberals.”

- The temptation to transform stones into bread to break the long, heavy, and painful fast (cf. Lk 4:1-4); and also to transform the bread into a stone and cast it against the sinners, the weak, and the sick (cf Jn 8:7), that is, to transform it into unbearable burdens (Lk 11:46).

- The temptation to come down off the Cross, to please the people, and not stay there, in order to fulfil the will of the Father; to bow down to a worldly spirit instead of purifying it and bending it to the Spirit of God.

- The temptation to neglect the “depositum fidei” [the deposit of faith], not thinking of themselves as guardians but as owners or masters [of it]; or, on the other hand, the temptation to neglect reality, making use of meticulous language and a language of smoothing to say so many things and to say nothing! They call them “byzantinisms,” I think, these things…

Golden words from a shepherd.

elampiro:
^
The above might be useful to some.

"And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them"---Lk 17:23.

"And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:" Mk13:20

"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders"----Mk13:22

Beware...the words of the Master.

MissMeiya:
Just to clarify.

"If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?" ----Pope Francis in line with Elampiro's Number 2.

"The problem is not having this orientation," he said. "We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem."-----Pope Francis in line with Elampiro's Number 1.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23489702

Just tell me why elampiro, accuser of the brethren, is slandering the Pope.

elampiro:
Stop asking me useless questions. Go and read the CCC. The number 2 are not in contention at the Synod. The church have never rejected them, so they arent the ones Pope Francis want to welcome. It's the number 1 being talked about.

It is not useless, however, even for humor sake let's know what they are called? Please show me a proof that suggests what you now accuse the pope of.


"When Bergoglio celebrated Mass at the Cathedral for the 2004 First National Government holiday, President Néstor Kirchner attended and heard Bergoglio request more political dialogue, reject intolerance, and criticize exhibitionism and strident announcements. Kirchner celebrated the national day elsewhere the following year and the Mass in the Cathedral was suspended.Kirchner considered Bergoglio as a political rival to the day he died in October 2010. Bergoglio's relations with Kirchner's widow and successor, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, have been similarly tense. In 2008, Bergoglio called for national reconciliation during disturbances in the country's agricultural regions, which the government interpreted as a support for anti-government demonstrators.The campaign to enact same-sex marriage legislation was a particularly tense period in their relations.

"In 2006, Bergoglio publicly opposed an attempt by the Argentine government to legalize some cases of abortion. In 2007, after the government intervened to allow an abortion for a mentally handicapped woman who had been Molested, Bergoglio said that "in Argentina we have the death penalty. A child conceived by the molest of a mentally ill or slow woman can be condemned to death."

"Pope Francis has affirmed Catholic teachings on intimate morality. He said that while homosexual acts were sinful, the homosexual orientation was not".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis


This is the Pope that elampiro has been saying all sorts of lies against.

SalC:
I did, his speech and action doesn't seem same

Do you mind elaborating on this?

elampiro:
Do you realize that you are the one who cant do anything right? You asks question s and I have answered all your questions and now you cant answer my own questions.

How do you mean that I lied about Pope Francis? If he didn't want to change the teachings why did he call the Synod where there are already catechism on the subjects? Why did he appoint radical Cardinal Kapser to propose the way forward at the February consistory? Why did he praised Kapser proposal?

The whole world knows Pope Francis is in support of changing the church teachings in communion for divorce, cohabitation and welcoming people who are active homosexually.





I need to log out now. I should be back in 4 hours to respond to anything thing your write about.

If you aren't blinded by false prophecy, you'll have noticed that I answered a question just as you requested and not three. If you want answers to the other two, then make similar request and be specific, "let your yes be yes" says the Lord.

Again, a barrage of false claims, unfounded hear says..."the whole world knows bla bla bla...like I am not a part of the whole world. " The Pope applauded karsper", was he the only one that received applause from the Pope? even if it is the Pope's opinion, have I not told you enough that Peter's own view in Acts 15 synod was wrong? Yet at the end of the synod in acts 15 and vatican 2014, the Holy Spirit took Control.