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CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 3:54pm On Jun 13, 2020
babtoundey:
The guy is a lost course. Seriously, he is. You can see him showing me Edeyoung viewing the thread with Gregboy after he had borrowed his daddy's phone to log in his other moniker. What manner of stupidity can beat that!

He introduce his Edeyoung moniker to redeem his soiled image on Nairaland and make stupid u-turn whenever he is lost roads. There was a time Gregboy admitted oba does not mean king Edo that it means one shinning nonsense. When you lashed him to the extent that he realized his undoings he started shouting oba means king with Edoyoung moniker.

The guy is simply dumP
Flesh & Blood did not reveal these to you.

CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 3:40pm On Jun 13, 2020
MetaPhysical:
TAO12,
CIA dey recruit. grin

You are a natural gifted analyst. I bow!


Gregyboy come and prostrate and salute this wonderful maverick. grin
Hahaha!
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 3:34pm On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
[s]See mumu, if i come into the argument now your brothers will cry heaven and earth for yoursake[/s]
Your hero (whom you admitted as such) ran away.

Are you claiming to be greater than your professed hero?? grin
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 3:25pm On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
TAO11 stupidity don enter una head
If you push me to the edge, I will present even more damaging evidence to expose you as one and the same person.

gregyboy:
Mumu
Now, you've just pushed me. >: Lol.

(1) The following link relates to a thread you [as "gregyboy"] created on May 18 at 6:38 PM

https://www.nairaland.com/5866543/identify-benin-greetings-here#89693577

[See 1st attached screenshot also for evidence that you created this thread].

(2) As expected, your second moniker ["Edeyoung"] was not cc:ied because at that time you were still acting naturally, as there was no need to copy yourself. grin

[See 1st attached screenshot for evidence for this].

(3) (i) The thread was meant to be an invitation [from "gregyboy"] to all Edos/Binis to identify their native dialectal Edo forms of greeting.

(ii) You [as "gregyboy"] identified your native dialectal form of greeting.

[See 1st attached screenshot for evidence of this].

(iii) In fact, other Edos/Binis who commented on the thread all follwed suit and identified thier own native dialectal forms too -- except for one Edo/Bini monker who commented but didn't identify. Lol.

(v) This Edo/Bini account (who failed to identify) goes by the moniker "Edeyoung".

[See 2nd attached screenshot for this].

Could it be that Edeyoung didn't really pay attention to see the topic of the thread?? Lol.

Well, the context of his comment doesn't seem to support this suggestion.

[See 2nd attached screenshot for this].


(vi) Oh wait a minute!

Could it be that the person behind "Edeyoung" has already identified his native greeting under a different moniker ["gregyboy"], and was simply unintentionally submitting to natural psychological inclinations?? grin cheesy

(vii) As at now, Edeyoung's comment is the only comment on that thread from that moniker.

It is also the last comment on that thread.

[See 2nd attached screenshot for this].

(viii) Let's hope that after reading this, you will go back to that thread and make up some random native dialectal Edo greeting for Edeyoung. grin

Cheers!

cc: babtoundey, MetaPhysical

CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 3:19pm On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
[s]Lol funnny am rolling in the floor laughing hard

Dumb boy/girl

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ihuanedo.ning.com/m/blogpost%3Fid%3D2971192%253ABlogPost%253A64583&ved=2ahUKEwiQ4Kqx5v7pAhUh2uAKHY84C6QQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw36LFVBWxhvJo4nv2TaMyCM&cshid=1592054596678[/s]
Nobody takes Edo blogs seriously anyways.
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 3:18pm On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
[s]Simply say you guys have gregy phobia


......... Lol

BabaRamota1980, macof, lawani,Olu317[/s]
This Benin account is contradicted by both the Lagos account, and the earliest European eyewitness report.
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 3:16pm On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
[s]Nor mind her, she sabi type and lie.....

Just common yes or no, she go write full epistle
Just leave her for me bro make i still use her shine........

Another people come from no were with diff language, diff custom come rule una like that with no fight..... Does it make sense.....
She say na peaceful infiltration.......


TAO11 i know you are bored, bring another topic we already defeated you in this one......

Lets argue on olokun origin.......... Smile grin mumu girl i know say you dey happy now[/s]
Your hero ran away after being crushed and trashed.

Who will now save Benin Kingdom?

I heard you all are still in the search for another Edo hero to face TAO.

CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 3:14pm On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
This is the type of prayers my psstor will recommend for my enemies.....

God give my enemies meaningless duty and curse my enemies into deep and meaningless confusion ... Ijn amen
I already told that if I got your time, then your own don kpuf be dat grin

CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 3:12pm On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
[s]Take this article make you read

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ihuanedo.ning.com/m/blogpost%3Fid%3D2971192%253ABlogPost%253A64583&ved=2ahUKEwiQ4Kqx5v7pAhUh2uAKHY84C6QQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw36LFVBWxhvJo4nv2TaMyCM&cshid=1592054596678

I dont know were you got your account of no military conquest by binis in lagos and we left our territory to be king in your fathers land and your people watched it happen


Mumu talk, be busy tracing edeyoung to me


That link will take you to the edo site that gives total credibility of benin influence influenced on lagos from 15000 till date...... And yes benin armies invaded lagos on war conquest[/s]
Edo blogs? undecided
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
gregyboy:
Mumu
Now, you've just pushed me. >: Lol.

(1) The following link relates to a thread you [as "gregyboy"] created on May 18 at 6:38 PM

https://www.nairaland.com/5866543/identify-benin-greetings-here#89693577

[See also 1st attached screenshots for evidence that you created this thread].

(2) As expected, your second moniker ["Edeyoung"] was not cc:ied because at that time you were still acting naturally, as there was no need to copy yourself. grin

[See 1st attached screenshot for evidence for this].

(3) (i) The thread was meant to be an invitation [from "gregyboy"] to all Edos/Binis to identify their native dialectal Edo forms of greeting.

(ii) You [as "gregyboy"] identified your native dialectal form of greeting.

[See 1st attached screenshot for evidence of this].

(iii) In fact, other Edos/Binis who commented on the thread all follwed suit and identified thier own native dialectal forms too -- except for one Edo/Bini monker who commented but didn't identify[/b]. Lol.

(v) This Edo/Bini account (who failed to identify) goes by the moniker "Edeyoung".

[See 2nd attached screenshot for this].

Could it be that Edeyoung didn't really pay attention to see the topic of the thread?? Lol.

Well, the context of his comment doesn't seem to support this suggestion.

[See 2nd attached screenshot for this].


(vi) Oh wait a minute!

Could it be that the person behind "Edeyoung" has already identified his native greeting under a different moniker ["gregyboy"], and was simply unintentionally submitting to natural psychological inclinations?? grin cheesy

(vii) As at now, Edeyoung's comment is the only comment on that thread from that moniker.

It is also the last comment on that thread.

[See 2nd attached screenshot for this].

(viii) Let's hope that after reading this, you will go back to that thread and make up some random native dialectal Edo greeting for Edeyoung. grin

Cheers!

CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 1:28pm On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
TAO11 stupidity don enter una head
If you push me to the edge, I will present even more damaging evidence to expose you as one and the same person.
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 12:52pm On Jun 13, 2020
babtoundey:
Funny enough, your Gregboy moniker could not differentiate between "dumb" and "dump" and he repeatedly write "dump" instead of dumb. One would expect Edoyoung, a different entity, different person to be able to note the difference. But no. He too writes "dump" for "dumb".

What more evidence do I need to confirm Edoyoung is Gregboy and gregboy is Edoyoung?

Baba, you are the dumPEST to think people are dumb enough to buy into your deceit.
Dont mind that boy. He is just "dump". grin

CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
gregyboy:
.
You're going in circles now perhaps because the issue I've been putting forward is way bigger than you. grin

The account about a certain Aina is even spurious. In order words, it doesn't belong to the official traditional account of either Benin or Lagos.

Moreover, even if we pretend it does, the problem still remains that its theme does not gel with the earliest eyewitness report -- Ulsheimer (1603).

This report indicates that the Binis have settled in Lagos pre-1603, and as such the conflict it talks about can not possibly be an imperial attempt to settle in Lagos and take it.

Moreover, the historical fact of the early begginings of European trade on the coast of Lagos (pre-1600) is an obvious corroboration to the beginnings of Benin's presence (an active participant in the coastal trade) in the region pre-1600. This is true for many other immigrant groups too apart from Benin.

The foregoing consideration of these two facts (i.e. the report of Ulsheimer(1603) and the early beginnings of European trade in Lagos) supports the aspect of the Lagos traditional account (and not the Benin traditional account) which holds that the settling in of the Binis et al. in Lagos [pre-1600s] was via a peaceful infiltration -- trade.

This same consideration also supports another aspect of the Lagos traditional account which holds that the [post-1600 ] conflicts in Lagos [one of which Ulsheimer(1603) talks about] relates simply to trade-induced violence.

Furthermore, while there is nothing in Ulsheimer's(1603) report about the first king of Lagos being a Bini; linguistic clues ("Ashipa" ) indicate that the first king of Lagos is of Yoruba descent. Moreover, an independent 1920s non-Yoruba and non-Bini account also confirms this about Ashipa being a Yoruba royalty from Isheri.

In addition to these, the custom of burying the kings' heads in Lagos and their remaining body in Benin although suggests connection with Benin (i.e. a maternal and a political connection as I have once shown), it does indeed confirm Lagos to be the paternal homeland of Lagos kings.

And the Benin traditional account finally finds its way to the dustbin.
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
Etinosa1234:
(1) Lemme ask u...was Allan Burns present in 1603 or he was told ?

(2) What do u have to say abt Benin having the undisputed right to choose ur next oba and collect tributes with the use of political alliance

I'm tired of all this explanation...I've given u the platform to do so already ...now just answer yes or no...

Now go back and answer it...

Yes or no

https://www.nairaland.com/5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/18#90602178
(1) His account is, at least, the earliest independent account which positively confirms this detail of one of the two traditional accounts -- that is, of the Lagos traditional account.

Can you bring me any independent account which is earlier or around the same time as Allan Burns which says that Ashipa is not Yoruba but Bini??

(2) Your question goes: "What do you have to say...?"

Yet you added, "just answer yes or no".

Are you sure you're normal? cheesy

Moreover, this question and others like it which you've repeatedly asked has been answered in details repeatedly.

I'm not sure why you don't want to engage the response I gave, but would rather re-ask again thus creating a false impression that you didn't see the earlier responses.

Attachments:
1st: The eyewitness account of Ulsheimer does not support this interpretation of the author of that attachment. Refer to my comment at the link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/20#90608096

2nd: This attachment has zero corroboration or confirmation to your Benin traditional account.

3rd: I have addressed this where I showed that it refutes your view that Ashipa is a Bini. It confirms my position that he is Yoruba. You just have to engage my reply to it and not simply pretend not to see it by bringing it up again.

4th: This has been addressed over and over. You need to stop pretending to be unaware that it's been addressed. What you should be doing at this point is to enagage the response I gave and raise reasonable contentions from it (if any).
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
gregyboy:
Keep it short oooh......

I just dey pity Etinosa1234

Keep it short, keep it short.... Ooohhhhhhhbbbb
You will cry blood on this one. grin

I'm glad you later agreed that he should be pitied for being stuck on this one.

Your application for Lagos indigenship has been torn to pieces. I am set to even burn the pieces.

Lagosian wanna-bes.
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
gregyboy:
Lagos account, people when them nor get any form of document prior to to tge British arrive na u dey listen to because thier account sweet you

Babe you mumu abeg..... Na thier account you suppose reason abi the account of early historical document from 1603

Sense you nor get anything when sweet you dey post..... I will be force to entire this discussion and end it once and for all

You too like talk

Or do you think the article we are giving you are authors from benin


So that your brothers will shouting on your behalf
Unfair....... Calling me names like winch
Lagos has had contact with the Portuguese as early as the 1400s when it was named Lago de Curamo. Just putting that out there.

Moreover, I am not aware of any 1603 account which says that Lagos was violently infiltrated and captured for royal conquest by the Binis. In which part of the account does it say that?

Furthermore, I am not aware of any 1603 account which says that an Edo man was imposed by Benin as king of Lagos.
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 5:02am On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
Says Yoruba revisionists media
Nope! That was the so-called interview by Gabriel Omonhimin.

And I have shown that this so-called interview is a made-up fraud by this Edo man (Gabriel Omonhimin) to whip up the emotion of gullible Edos like yourself.

Refer to the following comment wherein I have already demonstrated this:


*Having said that, even your link which was supposed to go to a one-to-one interview with Oba Akiolu shows that his supposed responses cannot possibly be from a one-to-one interview context.

This is in light of the fact of the perfect lexis & structure of the responses, as well as their absolute lack of spontaneity. These observations are evidently anomalous to one-to-one interview responses.

In fact, the delineation between the king’s supposed responses and the author’s own analyses was deliberately blurred. And the reason why the author engaged in all these foul-plays is not far-fetched at all. He is an Edo man – Gabriel Omonhimin.*
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 4:59am On Jun 13, 2020
gregyboy:
.
The eyewitness account of Ulsheimer does not support this interpretation of the author of that attachment. Refer to my comment at the link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/20#90608096
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
gregyboy:
(1) So you mean the urhobo king have Edoid names

(2) Again what your understanding by ediod names

(3) You're becoming too emotional now, i never even tackle you ooh

(4) Respect your licking mouth there

(5) f you equate ediod by people having thesame geneology then lagos, ondo, ekiti and the others have ediod geneology too and thier names maybe sounding yorubas but it is still edo

(6) Asikpa was a benin man his name was initially asikpaka meaning a very slim fellow
(1) Yes!

(2) What makes you believe that every knowledge you will acquire in life must come from me?

(3) undecided

(4) huh

(5) Why did you begin with "if"? Are you stylishly asking me what "Edoid" means?

Can you explain what you mean by the phrase "Edoid genealogy" because such phrase is absurd and incoherent. It doesn't exist, and it's meaningless.

(6) In order words, we can call him Mr "Very Slim"? And he will answer?? grin grin grin

Attachment: The eyewitness account of Ulsheimer does not support this interpretation of the author of your attachment. Refer to my comment at the link below:

https://www.nairaland.com/5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/20#90608096
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
gregyboy:
Ooh can you point out the edo names from the kings of urhobo people or do you need the names presented to you
I think you're dyslexic. Again I wrote Edoid not Edo.

So the challenge is still there for you to meet below:

Which of the following is Edoid:?

Rilwan, Aremu, Osuolale, or Akiolu.
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 4:33am On Jun 13, 2020
Etinosa1234:
U keep denying the fact that ur forefathers paid tributes to us ...is this how u want to collect it back grin
Even oba Akitoye was trying to establish the fact that he was approved by the Benin to rule Lagos inorder to prove his legitimacy...
if u think I'm lieing ..see the letter here https://https-www-nairaland-com./5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/18?iorg_service_id_internal=1646953538912597%3BAfpO0sNZfVFSuWT9#90604252

what sort of political alliance does thatgrin
On this matter,akintoye is ur only authority and it was not corroborated by any European who were present around that period. low self-esteem now makes u say that Josua account corroborates the Lagos account(u are so druuuunnnk).. I know u lack understanding so I'll quote the Benin account for u one more time
Egharevba said" the oba set a A WAR CAMP in Lagos to extend his control over the area... Hope ur brain gets this
Then in the same page 73( that shame didn't allow you to post).. it was said that there is an early corroborative account by Josua Ulsheimer who said Lagos was A MILITARY CAMP with soldiers of the Benin kingdom governed by by four generals

See definition of camp
A base of a military group


So does that in anywhere state that Benin pple had settled down b4 1603.. its only ur Brown roof historian that has made such claims that Benin settled prior to 1603

There is no proof anywhere that Benin had been dwelling in Lagos b4 1603. Ur only authority is an Akintoye who was born 300yrs later and documented only what he was told

For ur info.. Josua was a German serving in the Benin army and there is every possibility that if Benin was residing there prior 1603 he would have included it in his account...but he didn't Because it never happened...stop taking in Akintoye tales by moonlight..
Besides the other professors are useless in this topic because...they didn't witness it and would be relying on oral stories to create their history

Once again...I have established the fact that ur Maggi historian called Akintoye only wrote what was told to him by the elders of the village...and his story is not in any way backed by any evidence of Europeans present as at that time...

So as u can see I have squashed ur false talk that the Benin lived in Lagos prior to 1603 except u can prove it with evidence of Europeans living during that period

By the way are u able answer my yes or no question or u want the Benin to re-brainwash u again like we did ur forefathers(if ur claim that it was by political alliance has a 1% truth attached to it lmaoooi)

Gregyboy...we don reduce am to the extent that she now writes a 20 page essay of lies that no one understands and then declare herself winner out of low self-esteem... Yunno this must be hard to deal with especially when u remember the fact that her forefathers were easily brainwashed by the Benin to be paying tributes and also give the Benin undisputed right to dictate who becomes the next oba....

Omo those Awori nor Smart at all my guy!!!! grin

Tao wake me up when u are brave enough to answer my questions with just yes or no
And this too!

cc: gregyboy

CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
Etinosa1234:
U keep denying the fact that ur forefathers paid tributes to us ...is this how u want to collect it back grin
Even oba Akitoye was trying to establish the fact that he was approved by the Benin to rule Lagos inorder to prove his legitimacy...
if u think I'm lieing ..see the letter here https://https-www-nairaland-com./5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/18?iorg_service_id_internal=1646953538912597%3BAfpO0sNZfVFSuWT9#90604252

what sort of political alliance does thatgrin
On this matter,akintoye is ur only authority and it was not corroborated by any European who were present around that period. low self-esteem now makes u say that Josua account corroborates the Lagos account(u are so druuuunnnk).. I know u lack understanding so I'll quote the Benin account for u one more time
Egharevba said" the oba set a A WAR CAMP in Lagos to extend his control over the area... Hope ur brain gets this
Then in the same page 73( that shame didn't allow you to post).. it was said that there is an early corroborative account by Josua Ulsheimer who said Lagos was A MILITARY CAMP with soldiers of the Benin kingdom governed by by four generals

See definition of camp
A base of a military group


So does that in anywhere state that Benin pple had settled down b4 1603.. its only ur Brown roof historian that has made such claims that Benin settled prior to 1603

There is no proof anywhere that Benin had been dwelling in Lagos b4 1603. Ur only authority is an Akintoye who was born 300yrs later and documented only what he was told

For ur info.. Josua was a German serving in the Benin army and there is every possibility that if Benin was residing there prior 1603 he would have included it in his account...but he didn't Because it never happened...stop taking in Akintoye tales by moonlight..
Besides the other professors are useless in this topic because...they didn't witness it and would be relying on oral stories to create their history

Once again...I have established the fact that ur Maggi historian called Akintoye only wrote what was told to him by the elders of the village...and his story is not in any way backed by any evidence of Europeans present as at that time...

So as u can see I have squashed ur false talk that the Benin lived in Lagos prior to 1603 except u can prove it with evidence of Europeans living during that period

By the way are u able answer my yes or no question or u want the Benin to re-brainwash u again like we did ur forefathers(if ur claim that it was by political alliance has a 1% truth attached to it lmaoooi)

Gregyboy...we don reduce am to the extent that she now writes a 20 page essay of lies that no one understands and then declare herself winner out of low self-esteem... Yunno this must be hard to deal with especially when u remember the fact that her forefathers were easily brainwashed by the Benin to be paying tributes and also give the Benin undisputed right to dictate who becomes the next oba....

Omo those Awori nor Smart at all my guy!!!! grin

Tao wake me up when u are brave enough to answer my questions with just yes or no
Refer to the attached for your replies. I have broken them into chunks for you, so you won't have to give the excuse of it's long.

Fell free to chose which part to read and focus on at any time "t". grin

Good luck!

cc: gregyboy

CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 9:53am On Jun 11, 2020
gregyboy:
[s]When its come to benin - ife relationship quote me an article dating frim 1475 to 1897 apart from that the rest are rubbish they are author that never experienced the account they are detailing about.....
So take your D. M. Bondarenko account off my mention i still stand with the fact thst benin-ife never had any relationship, and oduduwa was just a diety and the yorubas were never under ife at anytime

So stop quoting me works of new era scholars

Putting that aside.... You didn't bring me archaeological evidence showing ada and eben was also used in ife or atleast a written document From samuel johnson account or samuel Crowther account supporting it since they were Yoruba earliest scholars , if we cant establish the fact that both party used ada and eben at a time how can we now ascertain its originality between both party

I gave you an archaeological evidence dating 15c supporting it was used in benin i was expecting yours but instead you gave me rant......[/s]
You must first demonstrate that the criterion you requested is not as shitty as you yourself before you ask others to meet it.

Your claim is that Benin and not Ife originally owned the royal emblems. You have to prove your own claim first.

A picture or plaque showing the emblems proves absolutely nothing about your claim of original invention.

I will be waiting on you.

While waiting on you to get out of the trap you've set for yourself, be reminded that the Benin account makes it clear that the royal emblems were introduced to "Benin" by Ogiso Ere.

However, we know from the works of the most prominent and prolific historian of Benin Kingdom alive -- D. M. Bondarenko -- that Ogiso Ere was an Ode-Yoruba sent from Ife to oversee the administration of "Benin".
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 9:26am On Jun 11, 2020
gregyboy:
Lol, the current oba of lagos is the guy on the picture below and he dressed in his benin royal regalia.....

Ok lawani you were missed you left TAO11 to be battered by Etinosa1234

Anyway if i have to take your word serious post an article or statement from the current oba of lagos claiming ijesha heriage
https://www.nairaland.com/5846195/benins-owners-ogboni-confraternity-olokun/14#90540671
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
gregyboy:
[s]Lol, atleast support it first with archeological fact that it was also used in ife..... Before we can trace its invention[/s]
You must first demonstrate that the criterion you requested is not as shitty as you yourself before you ask others to meet it.

Your claim is that Benin and not Ife originally owned the royal emblems. You have to prove your own claim first.

A picture or plaque showing the emblems proves absolutely nothing about your claim of original invention.

I will be waiting on you.

While waiting on you to get out of the trap you've set for yourself, be reminded that the Benin account makes it clear that the royal emblems were introduced to "Benin" by Ogiso Ere.

However, we know from the works of the most prominent and prolific historian of Benin Kingdom alive -- D. M. Bondarenko -- that Ogiso Ere was an Ife-Yoruba sent from Ife to oversee the administration of "Benin".

cc: RuggedSniper, lawani, MetaPhysical, gomojam
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 8:53am On Jun 11, 2020
gregyboy:
[s]Lol, i will give you archeological evidence when i have my spare time i will also give you European documented account too

Learn to watch your tongue

Achaeological evidence dating from the 15c

Mumu lady......[/s]
This is no proof of invention.

Try harder or keep saving face. grin
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
Etinosa1234:
nothing like dealt with...if u claim the words of josua ulsheimer are false ...then equally the words of father Columbine is also false

pls cry very more
I am not sure where you got the idea from that I claimed Ulsheimer's words to be false. cheesy I can, however, understand your frustration about Father Columbine's account though.

Etinosa1234:
[s]Crying Awori gal... show us the one that says otherwise...

u dey fear[/s]
Just as I always advice gregyboy, you need to always read your own screenshots before posting them to avoid embarrassing moments like this.

Your own screenshot cited the Lagos account to the effect that the Binis settled into Lagos peacefully and not by conquest.

Yet, you're supposedly still yearning to see an evidence which says that the Binis did not settle in by conquest.

Who did this to you? cheesy

cc: gomojam MetaPhysical, lawani, RuggedSniper
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
gregyboy:
I need an article from 1475 to 1914 supporting the ownership of ada and eben to ife or archaeological evidence
I need an article from 1475 to 1914 which says that Ada and Akpe were invented by Benin. Mumu boy!

Binis be adducing their dumbness as supporting evidence for their pathetic positions.

bleeped up people. grin


... So, as I was saying before I was rudely interrupted by a scum... grin
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
gregyboy:
(1)Its a transgendered bro

(2)You should know something about TAO11 she has read all articles youre even going to sort out next against her, bro she is keeping quiet now because she is looking for an article to ridicule your screenshot, if she does not find she will draw you to a different subject matter......

(3) She once argued with me in the past that benins never waged wars against aworis because aworis were just farmers and fishermen and she said who did benin waged war with... That the aworis allowed benin settle in peaceful as they saw us as one oduduwa family ....
Now here she goe again going totally against those words.
(1) Lmao at trans. Anyway, you forgot to tell him that you're gay. At least that was confirmed by you yourself when you were once describing gay joints.

(2) Why are you so dead-scared of me? Is it because of how I tear Benin Kingdom apart? cheesy Don't worry I will soon leave Nairaland. I know Binis will hold a fest if I eventually leave. Anyways, I will be here for a long time. Year 2030 will only be the beginning. grin cheesy

(3) You smelly-mouthed, janus-faced, fatuous, pathetic lair. Where did I ever have such discussion as the bolded with you. Attach a screenshot, or a link or both to where I discusses the bolded with you. Olodo. Atoole. Benin Kingdom obviously needs pathetic liars like you.

I was already considering your application to be naturalized as a Lagosian, but you just ruined your chance with this big lie. You lie through your teeth shamelessly. Scum of the earth.

gregyboy:
[s]After twisting the account to favour the aworis, we still have a benin monarchy ruling lagos, i guessed the binis begged the aworis to allow a benin monarchy rule them......lastly the British acccount also recognized the fact that lagos was under benin rule and they paid tribute to benin... Before the British took over lagos.....

Sense bro, sense..... TAO11 has gone mad dont follow suit.[/s]
There wasn't a single time when a Bini became king in Lagos. Not once. The first king of the present Lagos dynasty is Yoruba. The claim of the Benin account is unfounded. Refer above to see the latest spanking received by your Lagosian-wanna-be brother.

The relationship between the Lagos royalty and the Benin royalty is completely different from what you Edos wish it was. It began purely as a political alliance and then got consolidated through marriage. You all must stop dreaming. grin

Moreover, the royal emblem which Oba Akiolu is holding is an indigenous Yoruba emblem of office called Akpe by the Yorubas. They are originally despatched from Ife in ancient times alongside the Ada/Ida another ceremonial 'sword'.

The Ada & Eben, as the Binis call them, were first introduced to Benin from Ife by Ogiso Ere who is an Ife-Yoruba emissary sent to oversee Igodomigodo. I have beaten you black and blue on this before.

To be fair, it is not impossible that the present Lagos dynasty obtained its own from Benin considering the political and familial connection that later played out.

This is however by no means the same thing as your shallow conclusion that Ada & Eben (as the Binis call it) was invented by Benin. No, ifor the umpteenth time time it was introduced to Benin itself from the Yoruba center of civilization -- Ife.

And the Lagos' use could have survived from the earlier Lagos dynasty prior to Ashipa himself, it could also have been the result of cultural accretion from Benin.

For a certainty, however, the present Lagos dynasty is purely of Yoruba patrilineal blood from Ashipa himself (an Awori), and so on to Olokun-Kutere (an Ijesa), and so on till date. There is no Benin patrilineal blood whatsoever in that royal line anywhere from the beginning till date.

These ceremonial emblems are originally known throughout Yorubaland as Ada-Ogun & Akpe with the Ada-Ogun coming later to be associated with another later war personage in Yoruba history, i.e. Oranmiyan. Thus these emblems came to be know as Ida-Oranmiyan & Akpe.

Other Yoruba kingdoms have variant names for the "Ada"/"Ida" such as "Agada" or "Ele" as is popular among the Ijebus. Samples of the Ada Ogun ceremonial sword can be seen in Museums across the world.

Refer to the attachment below to behold the despatch of Ada & Akpe from Ife to Sir Kesington A. Adebutu of Ijebu-IperuRemo during his installation as the Odole Oodua.

cc: RuggedSniper, lawani, MetaPhysical, BabaRamota1980, gomojam

CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12: 6:41am On Jun 11, 2020
Etinosa1234:
But talk true...this thin pain u Sha...nor cry
Doubtful account because it talks about ur village... lemme see ur own page 73 of u are really sure
In summary, the above examination and careful analysis of the sources reveal the following:

(1) There is not just only one official traditional account describing these Lagos events of around the 1600s, rather there are two of such accounts. While there is the Benin account, there is also the Lagos account.

(2) The Benin account and the Lagos account differ in a number of important respects. While the Benin account lays claim to an outright conquest, the Lagos account talks of a peaceful settling in of greener-pastures seekers.

(3) The Lagos account notes that sometimes after the peaceful settling of the Binis and the rest, some trade conflicts broke out leading the immigrants to be pitched against their host.

(4) This foregoing description of a later conflict, by the Lagos account, is corroborated by Andreas Josua Ulsheimer’s account to the effect that the Bini side to a certain conflict was camped in one of the islands of the then Lagos.

(5) Historians do not know with certainty whether the name “Eko” is purely from Edo or purely from Yoruba. From my careful consideration of the contexts, however, I am drawn to the conclusion that it is not simply one of the two, but both. A phono-semantic matching to be precise.

(6) While the Benin account claims that Ashipa (i.e. the first king of the present dynasty) is a grandson of the then Oba of Benin, the Lagos account identifies him clearly as an Awori-Yoruba of Ife royalty, from Isheri.

(7) While Egharevba’s link of the name “Ashipa” to Edo language is rough (or absurd), a link of the same name to Yoruba language is clear, direct, widespread, and ancient. In fact, it means “one who paves the path (for others)” – i.e. “the leader”.

(8 ) Not only does the above account of Ulsheimer not corroborate the Benin account of royal conquest or colonization, the Benin account of royal conquest is also not supported by the key indicator of such conquests – that is, linguistic indicator.

In other words, there is absolutely no account (oral or documented) of Edo language being spoken in the Lagos palace (or in any part of Lagos for that matter) at any period of history.

(10) Finally, I should add here -- for the sake of completeness -- that the Benin Kingdom later came to be very much involved in the royal family of Lagos.

The first step towards this involvement was initiated by prince Ashipa himself when he sought political alliance with the then Oba of Benin.

The second (and perhaps the sealing step) was also initiated by Ashipa when he got married to a Benin princess.

I appreciate your strong desire to be a Lagosian, but such desire should not be sought desperately by hook or by crook. Doing that only bares your inferiority even further. Take care of yourself.
CultureRe: Benins Are The Owners Of Ogboni Confraternity and olokun worship by TAO12:
Etinosa1234:
But talk true...this thin pain u Sha...nor cry
Doubtful account because it talks about ur village... lemme see ur own page 73 of u are really sure
(b) Regarding the identity and citizenship of the first king of the present dynasty (i.e. Ashipa also spelt Asipa) whom the anonymous author of your second screenshot called a “Benin warrior”, the Lagos account is again radically different from the Benin account on this.

The Benin traditions as documented by Chief Egharevba notes that Ashipa is a grandson of the then Oba of Benin.

However, Chief Egharevba himself recognized the absence of such name in the Benin lexicon, he thus suggested that this name is the same as the word “Esikpa” from the Edo phrase Aisika-hienbore (meaning “we shall not desert this place” ).

On the other hand, the Lagos account notes that Ashipa (the first king of the present dynasty) is an Awori chief from Isheri. In relation to the Lagos account on Ashipa’s identity, Robert Smith writes on page 74 that:

Ashipa [is] an Isheri chief … (like Ogunfunminire and the Olofin before him) of the Ife royalty".

Similarly, Professor S.A. Akintoye too took note of this Lagos account on page 221 of his “A History of the Yoruba People” as follows:

“a certain Awori man named Asipa, described in Lagos traditions as an Iseri chief of Ife royal descent.

Having said that, it is important that I add at this point that while the name “Ashipa” is conspicuously absent from the Edo lexicon, it is widespread among the Yorubas since earlier times.

For example, one of the high nobles of the Oyo Empire (by the 1500s or prior) is known as Ashipa (also spelt Asipa). Refer to page 33 of Robert Smith’s “The Kingdoms of the Yoruba”.

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