₦airaland Forum

Expanse2020:
Allah give blessing to all his prophet and that why he direct and instruct all Muslims (believers ) to give bless to all of them..that why whenever a prophet is mentioned is a must for a Muslim to say PEACE BE UPON THEM..and the angel say this same thing for us too as return...
What did you say when call a prophet 🤣🤣🤣🤣
White man and Blackman be like
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hell-lle-lluyah....to Your God that so Dem.....

You are not making sense sir!
Can you confirm from the Quran that
The two offending words means prayer and not Blessings?
1. يُصَلُّونَ (yusallūna) - they pray or pray
2. صَلُّوا۟ (ṣallū) - pray

Secondly: Even if we adopt your translation of "Blessing"
If Allah already Blesses a person, what blessing can the angels or you Muslims give in addition to him?

Expanse2020:
Note
Jesus is not God as long as he pray to the supreme being which is ALLAH

So, who does Allah pray too?

Qur'an 33:56
Indeed, Allah and his angels pray to (or for) the Prophet ۚ O you who believe, pray for him and give peace

Who is Allah praying to?

Expanse2020:
JESUS didn't have power or will to Judge anybody, he can't judge me or you talkless of any prophet.. the judgement comes only from supreme being Allah
I guess you don't know bible ur small nyash come de shake here
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

It seems you dont know your religion: this is what your prophet said.

Sahih Muslim Hadith 2937 a
An-Nawwas b. Sam`an reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) made a mention of the Dajjal one day in the morning. He (ﷺ) sometimes described him to be insignificant and sometimes described (his turmoil) as very significant (and we felt) as if he were in the cluster of the date-palm trees. When we went to him (to the Holy Prophet) in the evening and he read (the signs of fear) in our faces, he (ﷺ) said:
.... Then a people whom Allah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur. And then Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope. The first of them would pass the lake of Tiberias and drink out of it. And when the last of them would pass, he would say: There was once water there. Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinars and Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of Bactrian camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will. Then Allah would send rain which no house of clay or (the tent of) camels' hairs would keep out and it would wash away the earth until it could appear to be a mirror. Then the earth would be told to bring forth its fruit and restore its blessing and, as a result thereof, there would grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group of persons would be able to eat that, and seek shelter under its skin and milch cow would give so much milk that a whole party would be able to drink it.
....

Did you read the hadith of your prophet Above?
According to your prophet, the person who will tell you whether you go to Paradise or Hell fire is Jesus and NOT Mohammed.



Sahih bukhari Hadith 3448
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them." (4.159)

Did it say that Jesus will judge Mankind?

Expanse2020:
Tell me why Jesus is coming back to this world after he died for your sin..
Is it coming to die again and again for your lout and sins committed again 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

When a person blind spiritually
He is coming as a judge

Timothy 4:1
“I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

John 5:22
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son (Jesus),

Matthew 25:31-32
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.


Too bad that even Mohammed will be judged by Christ.

Expanse2020:
Who JESUS or your God pray to...a God which has father in heaven...that mean he is a small God🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 powerless one

At least you don't have any problem with what you quoted except this.
Prayer is simply communication and if God is a Trinity, it makes perfect sense if the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit interact in communion and communication.

1. Who does Allah and his angels pray to in blessing Mohammed?
2. If Allah is All-mighty, why is his blessings to Mohammed insufficient and angels still need to add there blessings to that of Allah?
3. Now, why does Allah recite the shahada I. the Qur'an?

Are you afraid of answering to the inconsistencies in your religion?

FxMasterz:
Muslims are supposed to spot the red flag immediately Mohammed assumed 99 names like Allah. It doesn't matter whether he attributed those names to himself or they where given to him by others. It makes the deception even more glaring.

Islam is controlled by the Chief spirit of deception hence Muslims are blinded to the truth: they even despise the truth even when they know it.

It is like spiritual handcuff with the sole aim of misleading them to hell

FxMasterz:
Mohammed's is Allah then.

Of course. Allah and Mohammed are pseudonyms

FxMasterz:
Wow. So, Mohammed also had 99 names?

Yes, just like Allah has 99 names!

https://www.quranfocus.com/blog/99-names-of-muhammad-pbuh/

or

https://salawathub.com/names-of-prophet-muhammad/

FxMasterz:
Very wicked being.

The day I heard he asked that a woman's two legs be tied to two separate camels and caused the camel's to be moved in opposite directions to tear the woman apart, I almost wept for the heartlessness. All because the woman was saying he's not a true prophet. Mohammed was a very wicked man.

And Muslims gave him 99 names exactly as they have given Allah!
Most contemporary Muslims are better in behaviour than their prophet. Only the worst of human beings will shamelessly marry the daughter of their son (adopted or not).

FxMasterz:
I was alarmed when I read about the attrocities Mohammed committed against the Jews as seen in the attached image.

He manufactured a fictitious offence against people who helped him dig trenches during the battle of the trench because they were rich and his greedy self wanted their properties and so he killed 700 men and boys who surrendered to him.

He is a wicked human being.

FxMasterz:
You can just imagine o.

Later on the Muslims would come and tell us that the same Allah who wants to exterminate them is the God of Abraham and Moses and all the prophets.

Islam is simply submission to the will of Mohammed. Allah is just a pseudo name for Mohammed. The greatest conman in the history of the earth. Mohammed is simply one of the major antichrists in existence. His purpose and objective is just two folds.
1. To acquire power, wealth and women
2. To decieve millions away from salvation in Christ to hell fire.

I honestly pray for the freedom of Muslims from the shackles of satan

FxMasterz:
Slightly edited by me.

For those who mock Christians for loving the Jews who hate Christians, note that the hatred of the Jews has been prophesied. The time when the Jews shall embrace the Lordship of Christ has also been prophesied, "For they shall look upon Him whom they pierced". At the moment, they're cut off that we may be grafted in into this grace wherein we now stand.

God bless TemplarLandry for this piece.

Nice writeup.

Basic summary :
God adopted Isaac
Satan Adopted Ishmael

The conflict has been on since then. It is not ordinary that the Allah of the Muslims desire to exterminate the Jews.

FxMasterz:
Amen.

May the Lord reward you abundant for this labour of love. More grace and fresh oil in Jesus name.

Amen!
Have a beautiful week ahead!

FxMasterz:
Truly, Islam is a spirit. The adherents love same things and behave same way.

We appreciate God for showing us His love through His Son Jesus Christ.

More of Christ's Grace, Blessings and Favour to you this new year.
And may you be fruitful and productive all year round in Christ's mighty name.

We shall continue to reach out to them!

FxMasterz:
But we can't keep quiet. We love them and cannot watch them go to hell.

Even a Muslim in hell would blame his Christian neighbor for not telling him the truth. But while here on earth, the take you as enemy for attempting to deliver them from the fire.

Exactly!
We should keep on pushing. We never know when their conviction would lead them to repentance.
Islam is a spirit and that is why they behave alike.

This also make me appreciate the fact that I was blessed enough to know Christ.

Indeed by His Grace we are saved..

Ohyoudidnt:
Is this your reply?

Is there anything that depreciates this Qur'an verse (modified)
Qur'an 17:8
It may be that WE your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the punishment), and We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers.

Is this not perfectly clear in message?
Allah has used "WE" and "YOUR" is there no difference both in English and in Arabic?




Joining your thread following another's earlier response, I made contributions to answers outside your subject which you definitely encourage and decide to dwell on because you are unable to stay focussed and get distracted?

Is the following too not your reply?

I will take this to mean that you are not willing to answer my questions on this thread. Because the argument wasn't about majestic plural (but you insist this is what you want to dwell upon).
Firstly, The argument is about the fact that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob seldom call Himself by WE or US or OURSELF with unlike Allah in the Qur'an.
Secondly, YOUR cannot be MY either in Arabic or English.

But since you insist, Using the same logic of your majestic plural of Allah: these two verses below should be perfectly correct

Qur'an 21:57
And, by Allah, I shall circumvent your OUR idols after ye have gone away and turned your backs.

Qur'an 71:23
And said: 'Do not abandon your OUR gods, and do not abandon Wadda or Suwa', or Yaghuth, Ya'uq or Nasr.'

Please don't complain about these verse o. It's the rule you want us to adopt, so let's be consistent!

Somebody987:
Chemical reactions do not develop consciousness. Consciousness is a complex phenomenon that arises from the functioning of the brain and nervous system in living beings. While consciousness is not fully understood, it is considered an emergent property of highly organized and complex biological systems.

You forget that the brain is just chemicals and the nervous system chemicals.
You are just simply saying that consciousness has is an emergent property of chemical reaction of atoms
SMH

Somebody987:
Atheism is not a belief in one's own god or claiming to know everything. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods due to insufficient evidence or rational justification.

Very stupid and illogical definition of Atheism you've been tricked into believing.
Only less intelligent beings can truly lack a belief in the concept of a Deity Eg. It is true that a dog or cat or baby or an slowpoke can lack a belief in God or Creator. Why!?
Because they can't comprehend it even when you try to explain to them the idea or concept of God

Atheism is a CHOICE to reject the reality of a Creator or Deity or Any Spirit Being!


Can a baby be called an Atheist!?
Can any Animal be called an Atheist!?
Can an insane person be called an Atheist!?

Then Atheism is a CHOICE!

Somebody987:
The ability of a computer to produce itself is not comparable to the self-existence of living beings. Computers are designed and manufactured by intelligent beings using predetermined processes and materials. Living beings, on the other hand, are the result of natural processes such as evolution, where complex organisms have emerged over billions of years through gradual changes and adaptations.

The concept of a biological being producing itself is even far much more impossible.
Why?
A biological being is CONSCIOUS while a computer is NOT.
A Biological Being seeks for its own sustaining Energy by itself, a computer cannot.
You seem not to know that just as a computer, every biological Being is PROGRAMMED (This is the non physical component of their makeup)

Speaking about evolution, do atoms evolve?
Do molecules evolve?
Why would some chemicals reagents start evolving? For what purpose?


Free yourself from the dumbness of Atheism. It leads you nowhere!

Somebody987:
"Me and you are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts

There are 3 types of religious believers

1. The wealthy who just hangs onto their faith to look good and get accepted

2. The donkeys who believe that shit, and will distort facts to fit into their conclusion. Look up The Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy.

3. The poor who needs something to feel good about, be it "I'm going to heaven after this shit" or "that bastard politician is burning in hell". The thing that makes me sad is, none is that is going to happen, the history of people dying and passing on without ever being brought to justice in the hopes that God'll treat them is pathetic and sad at best.

I was NEVER an Atheist and I will never be one.
The only TRUE Atheist is one who knows beyond any iota of Doubt the Creator BUT chooses TO REBEL against Him and be INDEPENDENT from Him.

The rest of you are infected individuals!

Somebody987:
Can I ask you something? Do you remember the time before you existed? No, not your time as a 1 year old. No, not the time when you were in the womb. Do you remember EXISTING? Probably not. That's what death is like. You're not around to bitch about how that politician wasn't brought to justice. Nope, you don't exist.

How can anyone remember the time before he existed. Is this not a fallacy?
What if you open your eyes in DEATH and you realizer that you are Still ALIVE!?


Like I said:
Atheists are not worth my time: it's THEIR CHOICE and CUP OF TEA!

FxMasterz:
Hmm.

The lies have now become their truth. I see.

Only on the anvil of Truth can the captives of Islam be set free. Unfori, they will prefer that Christians keep quiet and not speak of the flaws and deceptions in Islam

Somebody987:
Remember guys, you're fighting over the greatest being to ever exist. Look how stupid and childish you look. Such a great being should be so visible... right? But nah, somehow we have a million year old Bible/Quran as the latest album this great being every dropped.

I didn't know that you are so wise like this.

"If God was made of atoms of Krypton and Silicon" and he is bigger than the biggest known star in the universe UY Scuti : will you not claim that God came to being with the big bang and thus a product of the Universe!?

It doesn't dawn on you that "if God was to exist" and He is the Creator of the Universe, He cannot then be made of matter!? It seems you do not understand that, If God created the laws of Physics and Chemistry, He can not be subject to it!?

You seem not to know that "If God was to exist", our total universe and physical dimensions would be inside Him!?

If there is no intelligence above matter, tell me how chemical reactions can develop consciousness?

I stopped debating the stupidity called atheism from people who are their own gods: who think they know while they are simply gullible stupid.

Tell me how it is possible for a computer to produce itself given every element of its individual component in their right proportion and a trillion years of varying temperatures and pressures : and you think that living beings can self exist!?

Ohyoudidnt:
I put it to you that your questions in the subject of this thread have been adequately answered. You hide your disappointment by bringing other questions in a garrulous manner. If you disagree concisely tell how you haven't been answered and don't cover by diverting your topic.

Have you bothered to find a hebrew language expert to disprove my submissions? Maybe not as you know and see the truth clearly but rather feign a denial.

Why don't you revisit your old threads on these to continue or start new ones separately?

No you rather play your confusion card in attempt to hide your actual state? No I don't have time for such indiscipline and implore you to keep me and my family in faith out of your mentions. You can toy with your time but that given us are precious and cannot be wasted.

Can you show me where you answered the questions : for you've been dodging the questions as far as I can remember.

To show you your Escapist strategy:

1. The main subject of this thread is the fact that Allah cannot be the "YOUR LORD" according to Qur'an 17:8

You did not have any argument against this: did you.

2. You changed to subject to Trinity because it is impossible to justify your answer to explain the discrepancy in logic of Qur'an 17:8.

since you change the subject to Trinity AND you were creating a Strawman argument, I asked you:
What is Trinity according to Allah in the Qur'an?
(You will help me well by quoting verses where Allah defined what the trinity is)

I guess you will respond to the question next year.
(You will help me well by quoting verses where Allah defined what the trinity is)

3. The you changed the topic again to majestic plural of the name of God when I reiterated that

In the Bible both the old and New testament, God usually use the pronoun "I" or "ME" or "MYSELF" unlike in the Quran.

To deal with these, I asked you repeatedly


Tell me and don't dodge the question as usual
a. What is Trinity according to Allah in the Qur'an?
b. According to Allah in the Qur'an, who are the partners in Trinity with Allah?


It is you Muslims who have a UNIFIED Deity you call Allah.

Is the meaning of Ahad (أحد) not "One of..." or "One out of.."?
Is Allah is just one out of many gods!?

Is Taoheed (توحيد) not "Unification" or "Unity" or "Unify"?
Is Allah is just a group name for unified gods!?

How many idols used to be inside the Kaaba? Can you prove that they are not the one unified under the umbrella name "Allah"?


You still refuse to respond:
Did Mohammed truely went out heaven on the Al-Barak or it was a vision /dream?

These questions were to address your Trinity Strawman

FxMasterz:
So, there are so many disjointed facts they're unable to explain about their god?

Exactly.
They have told themselves lies to think that Ahad mean ONE and Taoheed mean ONENESS that the reality eludes then completely.

Without Lies, Islam dies

FxMasterz:
What are Ahad and Taoheed?

Allah calls himself Ahad in the Qur'an stolen from the Jewish Shema Echad meaning "Unity" or "One Of..". This makes sense in the light of the Trinity of the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit being ONE. Unfortunately, no muslim can explain why he uses Ahad for God rather than Waheed (ONE).

The most fundamental doctrine in Islam is called Taoheed is also similar. It means UNIFICATION. Muslim want to redefine Taoheed as ONENESS of God, but it isn't. Taoheed is Unification.


Therefore, I ask them:

Is Allah is just one out of many gods!?
And
Is Allah is just a group name for unified gods!?

Ohyoudidnt:
אֶחָֽד e-had seems similar to ahad in anyway?

I don't jump from one question to another Mr.
Get your Hebrew to English expert translator not your research.

Your style of juggling questions should take a rest while we logically and systematically move from one point to the other.

Strawman or not by your definition could you simply answer if what I posted is a lie or not? If it is kindly dismantle the straws in the argument.

Your prophet copied the Jews:
Echad (אֶחָד) means one-ness (unity) in the Jewish religion (Shema Yisrael). This makes proper sense in the Light of the Trinity (the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit).
Unfortunately, it doesn't make an iota of sense in Islam.

My questions are not new to you. I have to repeat and repeat and repeat questions while you try your best to avoid answering them.
Again :
Please respond to your Strawman Argument. It seems that since you cannot beat the original, you make a Strawman that you can bash.

No true Christian Ever define Trinity as three Gods or partnership with God. No Christian has more than ONE SINGLE God.


Tell me and don't dodge the question as usual
1. What is Trinity according to Allah in the Qur'an?
2. According to Allah in the Qur'an, who are the partners in Trinity with Allah?


It is you Muslims who have a UNIFIED Deity you call Allah.

Is the meaning of Ahad (أحد) not "One of..." or "One out of.."?
Is Allah is just one out of many gods!?

Is Taoheed (توحيد) not "Unification" or "Unity" or "Unify"?
Is Allah is just a group name for unified gods!?

How many idols used to be inside the Kaaba? Can you prove that they are not the one unified under the umbrella name "Allah"?


You still refuse to respond:
Did Mohammed truely went out heaven on the Al-Barak or it was a vision /dream?


Grow some balls and answer my questions sir!

Ohyoudidnt:
Remember we are seeking to disprove the use of majesjic plural or royalty in reference to describing God. This is to clarify why your lord and we is used in reference to Allah in Quran 17:8

No Sir. You are chasing shadows
You are the one setting your Strawman question.

We are proving that the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses referred to Himself as I", "ME", "MYSELF" " rather than WE, US and OURSELVES as in the case of Allah.

And I had pointed out to you that even if the God of the Bible call Himselve with the Term WE, US, etc, it makes sense in the Light of the Trinity!

Ohyoudidnt:
This discussion stems from understanding the way Allah refers to himself. How God in the Bible refers to himself with a majestic plural.

The use of the plural in regards to the almighty God is s not limited merely to Elohim, but also applies to other words of profound significance. For instance, Isaiah 19:4 uses ’adonim (“lords”) instead of ’adon (“lord”)

Into the hand of a cruel lord” (literally “lords,” even though referring to one person),1 and Exodus 21:29 reads: “Its owner [literally be‘alav, “its owners”] also shall be put to death.” Thus, we see that the plural of a noun is sometimes used to signify one person, as a mark of honor and distinction or for emphasis.

Is this a lie?

The Bible uses Elohim for gods only when it applies this plural word to pagan deities. The pagan Philistines apply the title elohim to their god Dagon (Judges 16:23-24, 1 Samuel 5:7). The Moabites, likewise, used the word ’elohim to describe their god Chemosh (Judges 11:24)

Is that too a lie?

The effect of the majestic plural is to indicate greatness, power, and prestige. It is normally reserved for use by nobles, kings, popes, and other persons of high rank when speaking in an official capacity or by those of lower rank when speaking of or to their betters.


In Exodus 20:3: You shall have no other gods [Elohim] before me, and in Deuteronomy 13:2: Let us go after other gods [Elohim]. Elohim is the word that is used of the one true God as well as for the many false gods.

Pay attention to the distinction of the pagan gods and God.

Please respond to your Strawman Argument. It seems that since you cannot beat the original, you make a Strawman that you can bash.

No true Christian Ever define Trinity as three Gods or partnership with God. No Christian has more than ONE SINGLE God.


Tell me and don't dodge the question as usual
1. What is Trinity according to Allah in the Qur'an?
2. According to Allah in the Qur'an, who are the partners in Trinity with Allah?


It is you Muslims who have a UNIFIED Deity you call Allah.

Is the meaning of Ahad (أحد) not "One of..." or "One out of.."?
Is Allah is just one out of many gods!?

Is Taoheed (توحيد) not "Unification" or "Unity" or "Unify"?
Is Allah is just a group name for unified gods!?

How many idols used to be inside the Kaaba? Can you prove that they are not the one unified under the umbrella name "Allah"?


You still refuse to respond:
Did Mohammed truely went out heaven on the Al-Barak or it was a vision /dream?

FxMasterz:
It's too obvious that Allah is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Even legalwolf cannot deny that.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob taught their children the ways of their God whose name they later got to know to be Yahweh. Moses and all the prophets worshipped Yahweh. They did not know anyone called Allah. All is a deceiver .

The Entity called Allah is trying hard to sound bigger than he truely is. This is why Muslims are embarrassed to define properly the words Ahad and Taoheed without fabricating new meanings!

Ohyoudidnt:
Seriously! Language is a huge barrier and there are limitations learning from translation.



וַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהוָה֙ אֶל־מֹשֶׁ֔ה רְאֵ֛ה נְתַתִּ֥יךָ אֱלֹהִ֖ים לְפַרְעֹ֑ה וְאַהֲרֹ֥ן אָחִ֖יךָ יִהְיֶ֥ה נְבִיאֶֽךָ׃
And the Lord said to Moses: See, I have made you a God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your spokesman.

Obviously, Moses was one person, but the plural Elohim ( אֱלֹהִ֖ים) is still used.

In Biblical Hebrew, the plural can be used to denote a position of authority.

Candid advice seek experts in hebrew translation from your fold to explain to you.

אֱלהִים is grammatically plural but is often treated as though it is singular such as with a singular verb.

The issue is this:
The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses has never been know to address Himself by WE, US or OURSELF like Allah.

Again, I ask

Can you help me understand this verse of the Qur'an?
Qur'an 21:17
"If We had intended to take a diversion, We would have taken it from ourselves, if We were to do so."

Who is the OURSELVES Allah refer to here?

Ohyoudidnt:
Adonai and Elohim are plural nouns and though these names are written in the plural form, they regularly employ singular verbs in Hebrew grammar and are singular in usage. Therefore, acting in usage as singular nouns with singular verbs, many Bible scholars believe instead that these names represent a plural of majesty

Adonai and Elohim are plural nouns which also support the idea of Trinity sir.
My take is that the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses do not need to call Himself WE or US or OURSELVES to be majestic. By His nature He is!

This is why God is the "I AM!" and not "WE ARE"

Can you help me understand this verse of the Qur'an?
Qur'an 21:17
"If We had intended to take a diversion, We would have taken it from ourselves, if We were to do so."

Who is the OURSELVES Allah refer to here?

Gen 15:7:
"And he said to him, I am the LORD that brought you out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give you this land to inherit it."

Gen 28:13:
"And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac: the land where on you lie, to you will I give it, and to your seed;"

Exo 6:2:
"And God spoke to Moses, and said to him, I am the LORD:"

Exo 6:8:
"And I will bring you in to the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD."

This above is how the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses calls Himself. He doesn't use" WE", "US" or "OURSELF" like the Allah of the Qur'an!
QED!

Even if He did, it makes sense in the light of the Trinity!


You just copy things on the Internet whether it makes sense or not.
The adonim in Isaiah 19:4 does not refer to God but human masters (Lords) plural.
Is be‘alav also the name of God in Exodus 21:29?
The word Elohim simply means Deity in case you don't know: any personality that is worshipped is a Deity sir.

Ohyoudidnt:
This discussion stems from understanding the way Allah refers to himself. How God in the Bible refers to himself with a majestic plural.

The use of the plural in regards to the almighty God is s not limited merely to Elohim, but also applies to other words of profound significance. For instance, Isaiah 19:4 uses ’adonim (“lords”) instead of ’adon (“lord”)

Into the hand of a cruel lord” (literally “lords,” even though referring to one person),1 and Exodus 21:29 reads: “Its owner [literally be‘alav, “its owners”] also shall be put to death.” Thus, we see that the plural of a noun is sometimes used to signify one person, as a mark of honor and distinction or for emphasis.

Is this a lie?

The Bible uses Elohim for gods only when it applies this plural word to pagan deities. The pagan Philistines apply the title elohim to their god Dagon (Judges 16:23-24, 1 Samuel 5:7). The Moabites, likewise, used the word ’elohim to describe their god Chemosh (Judges 11:24)

Is that too a lie?

The effect of the majestic plural is to indicate greatness, power, and prestige. It is normally reserved for use by nobles, kings, popes, and other persons of high rank when speaking in an official capacity or by those of lower rank when speaking of or to their betters.


In Exodus 20:3: You shall have no other gods [Elohim] before me, and in Deuteronomy 13:2: Let us go after other gods [Elohim]. Elohim is the word that is used of the one true God as well as for the many false gods.

Pay attention to the distinction of the pagan gods and God.

Please respond to your Strawman Argument. It seems that since you cannot beat the original, you make a Strawman that you can bash.

No true Christian Ever define Trinity as three Gods or partnership with God. No Christian has more than ONE SINGLE God.


Tell me and don't dodge the question as usual
1. What is Trinity according to Allah in the Qur'an?
2. According to Allah in the Qur'an, who are the partners in Trinity with Allah?


It is you Muslims who have a UNIFIED Deity you call Allah.

Is the meaning of Ahad (أحد) not "One of..." or "One out of.."?
Is Allah is just one out of many gods!?

Is Taoheed (توحيد) not "Unification" or "Unity" or "Unify"?
Is Allah is just a group name for unified gods!?

How many idols used to be inside the Kaaba? Can you prove that they are not the one unified under the umbrella name "Allah"?


You still refuse to respond:
Did Mohammed truely went out heaven on the Al-Barak or it was a vision /dream?

Elohim is not used exclusively for God in the Bible sir.
1. Elohim can refer to gods (idols of other nations) as in
Psalm 82:1
"God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the ‘gods’ (Elohim)

2. Elohim can also refer to judges or those in authority as in
Exodus 21:6
"then his master must take him before the judges (Elohim). He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life."

The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, etc usually refer to Himself as "I", "ME", "MYSELF" as He doesn't need to feign bigger than he is.
YHWH is a name and it carries no notion of singular or plural


Jesus came to correct the misunderstanding of the scriptures to the Jews!

Ohyoudidnt:
You say the Biblical use of the majestical plural in describing God was just once? Are you certain of this?

In Gen 1:26

The One God is speaking of Himself in plural form with the pronoun our. This is a perfect example of the majestic plural. God’s divine greatness and transcendence are emphasized through the simple use of pronoun.

What is the primary thematic here? Do you say the ancient Hebrew had a conception of a trinity? Elohim is plural of Eloah but in the use in reference to false gods but when used in reference to the true God it is singular.

You shall have no other gods before me" (Deuteronomy 5:7) but In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1) this Elohim is singular isn't it?

Is YHWH plural?

You Muslims don't even understand courtesy of Allah and Mohammed. Allah you can do is to define your own Trinity then try to bash it.

It is called Strawman Argument. Because you cannot beat the original, you make a Strawman that you can bash.

No true Christian Ever define Trinity as three Gods or partnership with God. No Christian has more than ONE SINGLE God.




Tell me and don't dodge the question as usual
1. What is Trinity according to Allah in the Qur'an?
2. According to Allah in the Qur'an, who are the partners in Trinity with Allah?


It is you Muslims who have a UNIFIED Deity you call Allah.

Is the meaning of Ahad (أحد) not "One of..." or "One out of.."?
Is Allah is just one out of many gods!?

Is Taoheed (توحيد) not "Unification" or "Unity" or "Unify"?
Is Allah is just a group name for unified gods!?

How many idols used to be inside the Kaaba? Can you prove that they are not the one unified under the umbrella name "Allah"?


You still refuse to respond:
Did Mohammed truely went out heaven on the Al-Barak or it was a vision /dream?

SIRTeee15:
Still thinking of how to respond.
Here's another verse we need to dissect to understand who is Jesus Christ.

John 20
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, [f]“Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed

Ask yourself why would someone call Jesus God right in his face and he didn't reject the claim. Instead reprimanded him for not believing.

Why did Jesus accept to be called God in the presence of his disciples if we are to assume Jesus is a honest and righteous person.

Thomas called him God and he did not correct him.
Why?
What do U think? Is this another ambiguous verse?

Ohyoudidn't u are free to join the ring. I'm happy to enlighten you all. This is not to make u Christians but to understand the person of Jesus.

He has gone into ghost mode.
They have no answer to anything spiritual as they can only repeat meaningless chants and rhetorics to clould their mental faculties.

Ask the best of Muslims if they can answer this questions
1. Why did Allah send Prophet Isa to the world through a virgin mother?
2. Why is Prophet Isa the only human being who the the Word and Spirit of Allah?
3. Why is prophet Isa the only human who was taken to heaven bodily so that he's still alive 2000 years after?
4. Why is prophet Isa the only prophet who is a Co-Creator of life with Allah?
5. What was Allah trying to achieve by deceiving Mary the mother of Jesus, the Apostles and other Disciples of Christ that Jesus was crucified and died on the cross?


They don't have the answer and it doesn't bother them one bit: they are spiritually blind and deaf.

SIRTeee15:
Happy new year my brother in Christ.
This year is a call to defeat Taqiya and misinformation being spread by Muslims. We must intensify our effort to defeat false hood and teach the truth.
The message should also go to some of our Christian brothers and sisters who are naive and oblivious of the machination of the evil one.

This is a year of truth.

This is indeed the Year of Truth my brother and only with the weapon of truth can the Lies of Islam be demolished.

I pray that the Lord will open the ears and eyes and minds of those enslaved by the spirit of Mohammed in Jesus name.

Ohyoudidnt:
Are you familiar with the Majestic and royal plural used in reference to the almighty? Is it used in your Biblical scripture? Does it confuse you in the scripture?

In the Bible both the old and New testament, God usually use the pronoun "I" or "ME" or "MYSELF" unlike in the Quran. The only time God used the plural pronoun for Himself in the Bible is in Genesis 1:26 and this is understood by Christians to reference the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit in the creation of the universe!

God cannot become bigger by using Majestic or Royal plural for Himself as it changes NOTHING about His nature. An impostor may need to claim this to feel bigger.

Ohyoudidnt:
Unitarians reject the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent God who reveals himself through three distinct persons. Rather they view God as one singular entity without division or plurality.

And they are wrong.

I can prove it to you if you wouldn't dodge answering my questions as usual.

When Mohammed rode to heaven on Al-Burak, was it real or a vision?

Ohyoudidnt:
Did the almighty appoint you to determine who is and who isn't a Christian?

Didn't your prophet claim that you Muslims would be divided into 73 sects and only one would enter Paradise?

I asked you questions about some sects of Islam, why did you dodge it?

Again:
Are Boko Harams Muslims?
Are Ahmadiyya true Muslims?
Are Shias true Muslims?
Are the Zaidi true Muslims?
Are the Ismail is true Muslims?

Are you saying truly that only Allah knows!?

Ohyoudidnt:
Can you sincerely answer when the belief in a triune god or the concept of trinity become a part of Christianity?

From the time of the Disciples of Christ immediately after they saw Jesus after His resurrection.

John 20:28:
"Thomas replied to Him (Jesus), "My Lord and my God.""

Tit 2:13:
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"

The council of Nicaea only ratified the doctrine just as your prophet NEVER mentioned the word Taoheed. It was after his death that your scholars formed the word Taoheed to describe the doctrine of the oneness of Allah.

Ohyoudidnt:
DID JESUS EXPLICITLY SAY TRINITY WHEN HE WAS ON EARTH? Do show where!

Did Mohammed ever once mention the word Taoheed!?

Is Taoheed a wrong doctrine?

Ohyoudidnt:
The Sahih Hadith, which refers to the authentic and reliable sayings of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), is considered highly reliable, but it is not completely infallible.

Is the Hadith a revelation from Allah?
Funny I ask one who doesn't believe in Allah and detests his majesty.

But the Quran is also a Hadith of Mohammed: did you forget!? Why is it better than the other Hadiths of Mohammed?

How do you know that the Quran is a revelation of Allah? Is it not from your Hadiths?

Qasim6:
There is nothing you can come up with except ambiguous verses like the ones you quoted up there when there are clear cut verses like mark 10:28, John 17:28, John 5:30 and the likes that clearly point to the fact that he is not God Almighty.

If he is truly God then he did a bad job telling us he is.

My friend you just need to throw away that trinitarian lenses you are using to read those verses.

What is Trinity according to Allah in the Qur'an?
(You will help me well by quoting verses where Allah defined what the trinity is)

We can start from there!

SIRTeee15:
Who is Jesus? What did he say about himself.
I'm happy to teach you about Jesus if u willing to learn.
I will also prove to you using the Koran that Jesus is not a Muslim and can never be a Muslim.
Ohyoudidn't u are also free to join this debate.

I sincerely hope u guys will not change the goalpost midway and start shouting the bible is corrupt...which is the national anthem of Muslim apologetics when debate isn't going their way.

Now let's start with this verses

John 14
If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Why did Jesus say whoever has seen him has seen the father. What exactly does he mean by that statement.

Happy New year to you my brother in Christ.

The Qur'an is supposed to be
1. In clear Arabic : but it isn't
2. The Qur'an is supposed to be free of errors: but it isn't
3. The Qur'an is supposed to be free of contradictions: but it isn't


Yet, they wouldn't consider that it is the words of an Arabian man Mohammed

Qasim6:
Why will I be annoyed at a trinitarian that see multiple Gods every where they look, only a trinitarian will look at that verse and see multiple Gods.

U wey look at these verses from ur scripture and still conclude Jesus is God

I and Father are one..John 10:30

I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me. John 17:21

Now this is eternal life: that they know YOU, the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ, whom YOU have SENT. John 17:3

Father is GREATER than I. John 14:28.

You see these verses and you still believe Jesus is co-eternal and co-equal with the Father. I can only pity you, I'm not annoyed.

Who invited trinitarians to Quran 2:62? You lot have failed in the most basic things a believer in God should have which is
Hear o Israel the lord our God is one.
You have shared the glory of God with other beings because of a man made doctrine of trinity.

I see you wish to change the topic of discussion! LOL!!

Unfortunately, just as your prophet could not understand what the spirit is, how can he understand what Trinity is.

Let me ask you a question as I see that you cannot answer the questions I posed to you.


What is Trinity according to Allah in the Qur'an?
(You will help me well by quoting verses where Allah defined what the trinity is)

We can start from there!