₦airaland Forum

Most Muslims have been fed with a lie that Mohammed was an uneducated man and so could not read and write.
This is one of the reasons for claiming that the Quran is a miracle because the work is beyond the intellectual capacity of an Illiterate prophet.

Today, I will show us all that the claim of illiteracy of Mohammed is a big Lie created to draw sympathy and make youndrop your guard in accepting Mohammed as a prophet.

Claims Muslims use to insinuate the illiteracy of Mohammed
Qur'an 7:157
Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

Qur'an 29:48
(And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood.)


Evidence:
1. Historical Possibility
Mohammed was more or less the hired manager of Khadija's business AND he was found trustworthy with her trades and money. This task is suitable for one who can keep record of transactions and relay them out whenever needed.
2. What some Islamic Scholars says about Mohammed's illiteracy
The Prophet Muhammad (SAWA) was never illiterate but was from Umm Al-Qura which is one of the names of Makkah, that is why he was called as Ummi.
https://www.al-islam.org/ask/was-it-the-case-that-our-prophet-muhammad-pbuh-was-illiterate-what-is-the-difference-between-illiterate-and-unlettered

Definition of “Ummi”
However, according to Edward Lanes Lexicon, the classical Arabic term ‘Ummi’ refers to a gentile or someone who is not familiar with the Law of Prophet Moses. It is not necessarily someone who is illiterate.

https://medium.com/uncorrupted-islam/prophet-muhammad-196e312f82e5

3. The word Ummiy just simply means NOT a scholar in the scripture (of the Jews and Christians)
The word ummiy (أمي) appears 6 times in the Quran. Two times in the singular in relation to Muhammad himself (verses 7:157-158) and four times in the plural form (verses 2:78, 3:20, 3:75 and 62:2). From these verses quoted below we will see that the word doesn't have to necessarily mean "illiterate", but can also mean "ignorant" or "not given a scripture"

Qur'an 2:78 defines who the unlettered ones are
Quran 2:78
And among them are unlettered ones (أُمِّيُّونَ, ummeeoona) who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming.

Allah refer to the Arabs as Unlettered or Uneducated here even though the Arabs at this time had writings and thus could read and write. Don't forget that Waraqa, the uncle of Khadija (Mohammed's wife) used to write and translate the gospel into Arabic. Of course the Arabs were no Illiterates by the standard of reading and writing. They were Illiterates with respect to the Scripture (the Book).

[/b]
Evidence from the hadiths showed that even though Mohammed had secretaries who helped him in writing, he himself could read and write.

[b]Sahih Muslim 1637 c
Ibn Abbas reported:
When Allah's Messenger was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, 'Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah's Apostle said: Come, I may write for you a document; you would not go astray after that. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah's Messenger is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur'an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah's Messenger may write a document for you and you would never go astray after him And some among them said what 'Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and began to dispute in the presence of Allah's Messenger, he said: Get up (and go away) 'Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: There was a heavy loss, indeed a heavy loss, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah's Messenger could not write (or dictate) the document for them.


Questions :
Part A: If you think Mohammed was Literate
1. Knowing that Mohammed could read and write, why do you think that the preferred Islamic Narrative is that he was Illiterate?

Part B: If you think Mohammed was Illiterate
2. Haven read the hadiths presented, why would you still say that Mohammed was Illiterate?
3. Why did Jibril command Mohammed to read if he cannot read? And how come he still couldn't read after this command




Please let's make the answers short, direct and precise
Cc:
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LordReed:
So how are atheists falling under an illusion if they do not believe in the illusion of a god?

Can you see how confused you've become.

We started with the definition of Atheism : later you discribe yourself not as an Atheist but as Ignostic.

One of your defining claims is that

"3. That Modern Atheists do NOT Disbelieve in any Deity nor even Lack a belief in Deities but only have an illusion that they do."


These are your claims not mine.







Please, e don do me for this back and forth.
Have a nice day ahead!

LordReed:
What does that mean?

Falling under an illusion!

LordReed:
Define delusion.

Falling to an illusion

Sahih Muslim 821 a
Ubayy b. Ka'b reported that the Messenger of Allah was near the tank of Banu Ghifar that Gabriel came to him and said:

Allah has commanded you to recite to your people the Qur'an in one dialect. Upon this he said: I ask from Allah pardon and forgiveness. My people are not capable of doing it. He then came for the second time and said: Allah has commanded you that you should recite the Qur'an to your people in two dialects. Upon this he (the Holy prophet) again said: I seek pardon and forgiveness from Allah, my people would not be able to do so. He (Gabriel) came for the third time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in three dialects. Upon this he said: I ask pardon and forgiveness from Allah. My people would not be able to do it. He then came to him for the fourth time and said: Allah has commanded you to recite the Qur'an to your people in seven dialects, and in whichever dialect they would recite, they would be right.

honesttalk21:
Written or not leads to other questions which I beleve you will provide answers to.

1. Did the compillation rely only on written documents?

No

honesttalk21:
2. What was the main mode of transmitting or learning the Quran in the life of Prophet Muhammad? Remember that he himself could neither read nor write.

Mohammed could read and write: this is a lie Muslims tell to sell him. I will prove that to you in another post.

Recitation was the main mode but Mohammed also had secretaries who helped him to write. Also the Sahaba wrote on every kind of material available to them.

Musnad Ahmad 57
It was narrated that Zaid bin Thabit said:
Abu Bakr sent for me when many of the people of al-Yamamah were killed. Abu Bakr said: O Zaid bin Thabit, you are a wise young man and we trust you; you used to write down the Revelation for the Messenger of Allah. Seek out the Qur'an and collect it.

honesttalk21:
3. What percentage of the companions and arabians could read or write at this time?

Not even Muslims clerics know this answer. What we have reported that after a certain battle, most of those who know the Qur'an by heart were killed

honesttalk21:
4. Why was recitation allowed in 7 ways, forms, styles or dialects?

The Arabs definitely had different dialects of word pronunciation. This is your preferred Narrative.

The truth:
Mohammed kept forgetting the Qur'an. The one he recited for one group is slightly different from the one he recites to another group of Sahaba.
This differences he resolved by saying that all the recitations were correct.

honesttalk21:
The first question is answered thus:

أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ
وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ

Did he automatically decide to burn without consulting with the Sahaba? Did they not conclude to write only in the Qureysh dialect because this is the primary language of revelation and the language of Muhammad pbuh?

أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ
وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ Translates to
"O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you.

1. Is Uthman now a prophet of Islam?
2. Did Mohammed give any instructions as per the burning of variant Qur'an?
3. Did any of your Hadiths give this same reason for burning the various Qur'an?




Allah gave Mohammed one Qur'an dialect. It was Mohammed who requested for more. He was given 6 additional dialects.

Did Mohammed make a mistake in requesting for more dialects of the Arabic Qur'an?

honesttalk21:
You must be a Nigerian policeman! I haven't finished answering the trinity and you are bamboozling me with others. Is this what? Shock attack! Calm down! What's the hurry?

The Quran without following a traditional definition refers to them in Quran 5: 73 & 116.

Jesus (Isa ibn Maryam pbuh) is a man haven been born by Maryam, on the command of Allah to be off the spirit of Allah which was sent by another Spirit of Allah, Jibril to inform and pass the spirit. Jibril also strengthening him on his mission.

I have asked you this question almost ten times now as you aren't seeing it for the first time.
You have NOT answered the Question as it is about HOW it is possible!


The QUESTION AGAIN
If Jesus is not a trinity in The Qur'an, can you explain how
1. Jesus is a Human being and Messanger of Allah
2. Jesus is the Spirit of Allah
3. Jesus is the Word of Allah

Note:
A spirit is not a human being and the Word of Allah is not the same as the Spirit of Allah!

honesttalk21:
I have replied you. As stated in earlier discussions you cannot just singularly pick words in arabic sentences without considering others to make an accurate interpretation.

It is one thing to translate the Qur'an into exactly what it says AND it is another thing to translate the Qur'an to whatever we want it to say.

I gave you a question :

Please translate : وَٱلْمَسِيحَ

LordReed:
I don't consider them delusional since they aren't believing in the illusion, you are delusional when you believe an illusion is real.

I am not defending their position so much as showing that some of your statements are factually incorrect and incongruent with reality.

You just said:

LordReed:
The statements about my position as an Ignostic are correct but still doesn't give credence to your argument against atheism. The atheist is not taking a position based on sufficient knowledge.

If you truly hold on to Ignostism, then Atheists are in delusion.

Did you not just ascribed to the statement
"3. That Modern Atheists do NOT Disbelieve in any Deity nor even Lack a belief in Deities but only have an illusion that they do."


Would you now wish to modify both the definition of Atheism and Ignostism as it applies to you LordReed!?

honesttalk21:
Now this is quite interesting and surely will excite you and many others. Do you however wonder why this translation negates all that has been said about Allah and Isa ibn Maryam in other parts of the Qur'an?

One of the difficulties in selecting a particular translation of the Quran is not the limitations of the translation. It is, rather, that because of their symbolic and figurative language sacred texts are ambiguous even in their original language. This makes recommending any translation that is not accompanied by a more detailed interpretation difficult. 

So an added significance of the markings for vowels; in this case the fatha on the verb A-attakhazu ٱتَّخَذُوٓ will affect the nouns with the fatha;rabbis أَحۡبَارَهُمۡ , monks وَرُهۡبَٰنَهُمۡ and masiha ibn Maryam وَٱلۡمَسِيحَ ٱبۡنَ مَرۡيَمَ but not Allah إِلَّا. This is because the latter has a kesra before it. Had the verb been A-attakhizu ءَأَتَّخِذُ then Allah will be the object.

The appropriate grammatical translation is:
They have taken their rabbis (Jews) and monks
also the Messiah, the son of Mary as lords besides Allah, . And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

Putting the objects of the verb together.

Muslims with lies whenever it comes to whatever they don't like Allah saying.

Where did you see the Word ALSO in the Qur'an. When did Waa become ALSO?



Please translate : وَٱلْمَسِيحَ

I have attached the interlinear translation for you to see that I AM CORRECT in my translation.



Qur'an 9:31
ٱتَّخَذُوٓاْ أَحۡبَارَهُمۡ وَرُهۡبَٰنَهُمۡ أَرۡبَابٗا مِّن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ وَٱلۡمَسِيحَ ٱبۡنَ مَرۡيَمَ وَمَآ أُمِرُوٓاْ إِلَّا لِيَعۡبُدُوٓاْ إِلَٰهٗا وَٰحِدٗاۖ لَّآ إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَۚ سُبۡحَٰنَهُۥ عَمَّا يُشۡرِكُونَ,


Instead,
In Qur'an 9:31, we see Allah implying that people should worship him AND the Messiah. Modern Muslim scholars are trying to hard to misrepresent the Arabic of the verse to read something milder, however in the Arabic, the damage is already done

Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah AND the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.



What does this scripture say:
Instead of the Jews and the Christians worshipping Allah AND the Messiah, they were worshipping their Scholars and Monks


Do you know the meaning of AND (English) or WAA (Arabic)?


Did Allah make a Mistake in this Scripture?

honesttalk21:
I have explained and you have jeered that no muslim will ever know. I have done more investigation to find this which is probably why we can never know.

At least I am spot on about the origin

You didn't explain anything sir

The Question was explain HOW Jesus is a Man, the Word and Spirit of Allah ALL at the same time knowing that A Man is not a Spirit and the Word of Allah is not the same as the Spirit of Allah.


Instead you stated all which we already know from the Qur'an that
1. Jesus is not the Son of God
2. Allah does not have a son
3. Jesus is the word of Allah
4. Jesus is the messanger of Allah
5. Those who say Allah is the Messiah has defied God
6. Those who say Allah is one of three have disbelieved
None of these answers the simple Question

The QUESTION AGAIN
If Jesus is not a trinity in The Qur'an, can you explain how
1. Jesus is a Human being and Messanger of Allah
2. Jesus is the Spirit of Allah
3. Jesus is the Word of Allah

Note:
A spirit is not a human being and the Word of Allah is not the same as the Spirit of Allah!



So, explain HOW this is possible!

[quote author=honesttalk21 post=125141405][/quote]The Spirit controlling Mohammed seems to be controlling all you Muslims. Just like Till today Mohammed has not been able to explain what "Spirit" is.


The question was:

Please answer the Question : Is Jesus not a Trinity in the, Qur'an ?

If Jesus is not a trinity in The Qur'an, can you explain how
1. Jesus is a Human being and Messanger of Allah
2. Jesus is the Spirit of Allah
3. Jesus is the Word of Allah

Note:
A spirit is not a human being and the Word of Allah is not the same as the Spirit of Allah!


What is your response?
Even you don't know!

LordReed:
The statements about my position as an Ignostic are correct but still doesn't give credence to your argument against atheism. The atheist is not taking a position based on sufficient knowledge.

Do you think it makes sense to defend the position of people you consider as delusional (Illusion of disbelief)!?


"3. That Modern Atheists do NOT Disbelieve in any Deity nor even Lack a belief in Deities but only have an illusion that they do."

honesttalk21:
During the Patristic period, early Church established intellectual framework, defining Christian orthodoxy through ecumenical councils, establishing the Trinity and Incarnation doctrines. At the councils of Nicaea (325 CE), Constantinople (381), and Chalcedon (451).
These meetings were not entirely free from the influence of pagan beliefs and practices.
This influence can be seen in various aspects of these councils, including the involvement of emperors and the blending of pagan symbols with Christian imagery.
The transition from Palestine villages to Eastern Roman provinces is challenging to explain, as Christianity rapidly spreads to urban centers and crosses the boundary between the local Jewish community and the general population. The challenge lies in how the message was adapted to make sense to these diverse groups. It seems Christianity was able to sort of spread and succeed and survive, partly because it more and more took on - it kind of imitated, in a sense perhaps, some of the practices of the Empire.
Emperor Constantine significantly influenced the debate on Jesus' nature, leading to the orthodox Christian position. He incorporated pagan beliefs into the council's decisions, showcasing the intertwining of political power and religious authority. Emperor Theodosius I also played a role in the Council of Constantinople, where discussions on the Holy Spirit drew heavily from Greek philosophy and Neoplatonic ideas. The Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD faced conflicts over Jesus' nature, leading to the Chalcedonian Creed, which declared Jesus perfect in divinity and humanity. Despite attempting to establish orthodox doctrine, early Christian churches were unable to completely separate themselves from the pagan world.

The question was simple, what is the meaning of Trinity according to the Qur'an?
If Allah cannot define what Trinity is, what gives you the standing to say how the doctrine amongst Christians was formulated.

The more reason how NO muslim in this universe can explain the Trinity of Jesus Christ in the Quran.
Can you?

Explain the Trinity of Jesus in your Qur'an first.

honesttalk21:
Didn't everything come from God? When Adam was created, did God not breath into him of himself?

And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration.

You must have heared the phrase from God we come and to God we return?

God inspired the Prophet Muhammad with the Spirit

The Spirit both descends from God and ascends to God

God sends down the Spirit from His Command upon his Servants

The Spirit is from God's Command and we know little about it

Jesus is called the "Spirit from Him

The Spirit is from God's Command and we know little about it


Mark 13:32, in which Jesus says, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven nor the Son, but only the Father." This verse states that Jesus, as the Son of God, does not possess the omniscience typically associated with a divine being. It suggests that Jesus is separate from God and therefore cannot be God himself.

John 17:3 where Jesus himself says, "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

In Matthew 26:39, Jesus is depicted as praying to God the Father, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.
How is it that the will of one of the three in one doesn't know what the controlling one in the triune wills?




9:31 They have taken their rabbis (Jews) and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him."

It is not just the trinity but all association of others

Ex 34:14 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God

Qur'an 9:37
ٱتَّخَذُوٓاْ أَحۡبَارَهُمۡ وَرُهۡبَٰنَهُمۡ أَرۡبَابٗا مِّن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ وَٱلۡمَسِيحَ ٱبۡنَ مَرۡيَمَ وَمَآ أُمِرُوٓاْ إِلَّا لِيَعۡبُدُوٓاْ إِلَٰهٗا وَٰحِدٗاۖ لَّآ إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَۚ سُبۡحَٰنَهُۥ عَمَّا يُشۡرِكُونَ,

Muslims and lies is 5 & 6.
Show me where the word ALSO appear in the Arabic Qur'an?



Instead,
In Qur'an 9:37, we see Allah implying that people should worship him AND the Messiah. Modern Muslim scholars are trying to hard to misrepresent the Arabic of the verse to read something milder, however in the Arabic, the damage is already done

Qur'an 9:31
They (Jews and Christians) have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah AND the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.



What does this scripture say:
Instead of the Jews and the Christians worshipping Allah AND the Messiah, they were worshipping their Scholars and Monks


Do you know the meaning of AND (English) or WAA (Arabic)?


Did Allah make a Mistake in this Scripture?

honesttalk21:
Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allāh is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.

Is Be not the word of Allah?

Have the people been amazed that We revealed [revelation] to a man from among them, [saying], "Warn mankind and give good tidings to those who believe that they will have a precedence of honor with their Lord"?

And nothing prevented men from believing when the guidance came to them, except that they said: "Has Allah sent a man as Messenger" Say: "If there were on the earth, angels walking about in peace and security, We should certainly have sent down for them from the heaven an angel as a Messenger (like is for like)

"And they did not appraise Allah with true appraisal when they said, "Allah did not reveal to a human being anything." Say, "Who revealed the Scripture that Moses brought as light and guidance to the people? You [Jews] make it into pages, disclosing [some of] it and concealing much. And you were taught that which you knew not - neither you nor your fathers." Say, "Allah [revealed it]." Then leave them in their [empty] discourse, amusing themselves."

[i19[/b]30. [b]He said, “I am the servant of God. He has given me the Scripture, and made me a prophet.

31. And has made me blessed wherever I may be; and has enjoined on me prayer and charity, so long as I live.

32. And kind to my mother, and He did not make me a disobedient rebel.

33. So Peace is upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the Day I get resurrected alive.”

34. That is Jesus son of Mary—the Word of truth about which they doubt.

And on what is truth or true, Allah says:
Of the believers are men who are true to the covenant which they made with Allah… (Surah ( 33:23)

Who is then more unjust than he who utters a lie against Allah and (he who) gives the lie to the truth when it comes to him; is there not in hell an abode for the unbelievers? And he who brings the truth and (he who) accepts it as the truth… these are they that guard (against evil). (39: 32-33)

O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and be with the true ones. ( 9:119)

My Question was simple and you never once answered it.

Again :

If Jesus is not a trinity in The Qur'an, can you explain how
1. Jesus is a Human being and Messanger of Allah
2. Jesus is the Spirit of Allah
3. Jesus is the Word of Allah

Note:
A spirit is not a human being and the Word of Allah is not the same as the Spirit of Allah!


1. Allah NEVER created Jesus by BE.
He created Jesus by blowing into Mary's private part. True or False?
2. You NEVER once answered the Question of HOW Jesus is the Word , the Spirit and a Man all at the same time. This is Trinity if you lack knowledge.

Let me help you out: To disprove it is two ways
A. Show that Man=Spirit =Word
That is these three words are synonyms
B. Show that when Jesus became a man, he ceased being the Word and Spirit of Allah.


Please answer the Question : Is Jesus not a Trinity in the, Qur'an ?

LordReed:
Here you go.

Everything started with the definition of ATHEIST/ATHEISM

TenQ:
Like I said:
I wasn't defining atheism : atheists can't even define themselves successfully!

The earlier post was a pun.

You said:
"Atheists are simply people who lack the belief in a god. That's about it."

This definition is nonsensical at best.
To lack a belief is only possible if
1. The concept of "Deity" is far above your intellectual capacity to understand /comprehend
Examples
A Baby can truly be said to lack a belief.

Once a person has an intellectual capacity to hold a opinion, such CANNOT lack a belief on the subject
OR
An Animal CANNOT have a belief on the subject of a Deity.
2. You are unconscious.
3. You are inanimate or a vegetable


Holding any kind of Belief is a function of acting on available information. This information could be right or wrong but it forms the basis for a position to be taken on the basis of probability or likelihood of correctness.

Do you have ANY good reason for your LACK of Belief in a Deity?

This lead to further questioning and assertions by me to prove the nonsensical definition of Atheism.

TenQ:
1. Is it true that A Baby can truly be said to lack a belief.
WHY or WHY NOT?
2. Is it true that An Animal CANNOT have a belief on the subject of a Deity.
WHY or WHY NOT?
3. Is it true that Once a person has an intellectual capacity to hold a opinion, such CANNOT lack a belief on the subject
WHY or WHY NOT?
4. Apart from the subject of Deity or God/gods, give me an example of something else you lack a belief in and state WHY you lack a belief? in such?

Thanks

Question 4 was where you jumped in with your Arsenal and UEFA cup illustration.

TenQ:
Cc: budaatum


You have tried. At least better than Buda and Mainman.

There exist just FOUR Possible positions anyone can take
1. Position of Perfect Knowing
Examples :
*I know that 2+16=18
*I know that Bola Ahmed Tinubu is the President of Nigeria
This is a position of certainty. You don't even need to believe because you know

2. Position of Positive Imperfect Knowledge
Examples :
*I believe that Nigeria would still be great
*I belief that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups
*I believe in one Deity
This position of belief is positive because you have reasons based on your limited knowledge to take such an optimistic position

3. Position of Negative Imperfect Knowledge
Examples :
*I do NOT believe that the Nigerian Judiciary is impartial
*I do NOT believe that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups
*I do not believe in ANY Deity

This position of belief is negative because you have reasons based on your limited knowledge to take such a negative optimistic position

4. Position of Ignorance and lack of Knowledge
Examples :
*I lack a belief that the planet Jumongo's core contain molten iron
*I lack a belief that the square root of 865,234,638,124,879,007 gives the surface area of Pluto in meter square.


The position of ignorance does not take any position positive or negative. He just doesn't have enough knowledge or information to believe or disbelieve a position. This one is a position of PERFECT AGNOSTICISM!

Like , With respect to Religion or Deities,
*A Baby is a perfect Agnostics
*A dog is a Perfect Agnostics
With respect to Science
The uneducated Farmer in the village is perfectly agnostic to believing that the Equation E=mc^2 is a True statement.


The problem with even those who call themselves Agnostics is that they have taken a NON-NEUTRAL position BY taking a position of knowledge.



You said :
I lack the belief that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups because I do not have sufficient knowledge to form such a belief.
If this was true, then you cannot argue FOR or AGAINST the fact that Arsenal will win both the UEFA and English Premiership Cups

Once you take ANY position, it means you actually have sufficient knowledge to take take such position.

Only for you to come up with a New definition of who you are as an Ignostics.

Remember that I said that
I wasn't defining atheism : atheists can't even define themselves successfully!

This is another instance of it.

Now, as an Ignostic (another self delusion)
1. Lack of Belief that "the Creator and Designer of the Universe is a Coherently" defined phrase
2. That modern religionists do NOT believe in any Deity BUT only have an illusion that they do
3. That Modern Atheists do NOT Disbelieve in any Deity nor even Lack a belief in Deities but only have an illusion that they do.


Before I help you tear down the illogically of this your definition,
Is this set of statements about you now correct AND you accept that my argument against Atheism had been correct all along?


Cc: budaatum

LordReed:
Ignostic.

Ignostic!?

Please what is your accepted proper definition of an Ignostic?

honesttalk21:
Oh oh! Jesus is not said to be trinity.

You asked if Taoheed is mentioned in the Quran. No it is not.

If Jesus is not a trinity in The Qur'an, can you explain how
1. Jesus is a Human being and Messanger of Allah
2. Jesus is the Spirit of Allah
3. Jesus is the Word of Allah

Note:
A spirit is not a human being and the Word of Allah is not the same as the Spirit of Allah!


Can you explain this?

Hardy123:
Okay Jesus created the ants and his father Yahweh programmed it @OP

Happy now?

Humble yourself and think: don't be misled by atheist professors of science who cannot even define who a woman is

Image123:
They are dishonest liars like devil their father. It's obvious.

Of course!

It pains them that a faceless identity on Nairaland can deflate the definition of Atheism as a Lack of Belief in a Deity!

Their only option rather than admitting the truth is to behave like their father the devil

LordReed:
LoLz. You didn't consider that in now means I no longer will use that label did you? Bwahahahahaha.

So what label are you labelled with and what is the proper definition?

Waiting!!!!!

LordReed:
Lemme make it clearer for you since my grammar was too complicated for you. If we cannot resolve what a god is then the question of what an atheist is is similarly unravelled, it becomes a meaningless label in short (at least for me). Do you get it now? LoLz.

You can't resolve what God is, yet the definition of who you claim to be cannot be resolved without this Same God.

Who then are you fooling?

Can you define atheism without mentioning the word God?

Image123:
The biggest fool has defined God with his mouth and writings, God didn't fit into his definition, therefore there is no God.

You can see how Dishonest these people are. Atheism cannot be defined without God and yet this people say they don't understand the concept of God!

So, its either they are being Dishonest, Liars or incredibly Dumb.

Lutherblaq:
They say Forgiveness is the firs step to fixing relationship issues. It gives you a window to understand the reason behind your partner’s actions.

Being cheated on is one of the most traumatic feelings one can go through in any relationship. There are times when the love and affection between two people decrease due to various factors.

Cuddles, romance, and communication become less frequent with time. It is in times like these either of the partners may search for love outside.

As a man/woman, tell us;
Can You Leave A Good Woman/Man Because They Slept With
Someone By Mistake?

Is it possible to have sex with someone by mistake?

LordReed:
LoLz. Yes even such concepts as atheism take on a strange hue when the question of what a god is cannot be resolved.

You understand the definition of Atheism!
But you don't understand what your disbelieving is about!?


Just see yourself caught like a lizard in a net!

LordReed:
I posted links to show you this is a recent development. Going forward however my discussions on the subject will be very limited.

You can view it anyway you wish.

Of course!
If you don't understand the concept of God as most theists define him as primarily the Creator, it is either you are being Dishonest, a Liar or incredibly Dumb.

But you understand the definition of Atheism!

Have your pick!

honesttalk21:
What is Taoheed?

You may think to argue that this means unification but are wrong because the Prophet has never stated anything about Allah being a unification of others.

The testimony of faith and several verses of the Quran point that Allah is one and asks muslims to worship one.

Funny a quick check shows two Christians with opposing views on praying to the holy spirit. One for and the other against. Problem!

You brought forth this kind of argument on yourself as I didn't ask you for the definition of Taoheed.

Again :

The more reason how NO muslim in this universe can explain the Trinity of Jesus Christ in the Quran.

Can you?

Is Jesus not a Trinity in the Qur'an?

honesttalk21:
Interesting logic. Did Jesus Christ state and define the trinity?

Is Taoheed not the most central in Islam?

Is the word Taoheed anywhere in the Qur'an?


You were the one who brought this kind of argument into the discussion

LordReed:
I don't understand what a god is so I don't understand how it has any attributes or performs any actions. You can either choose to engage me based on that or believe it indicates anything you like.

Too bad you don't understand this and you are 99% of the time wasting everyones time on the Religious section of Nairaland. Have you ever thought of this? What are you doing here?

Is there need for further explanation?


And that's why I said:
Only a Liar or an incredibly dumb adult will not understand this concept.

LordReed:
No I don't.

Only a Liar or an incredibly dumb adult will not understand this concept.

You have conveniently put yourself in one of these two categories!

honesttalk21:
Expressed or categorically defined?

An expression, by its very nature, cannot be considered a clear definition.

While an expression may contain a general understanding of a concept or idea, it lacks the precision and specificity necessary for a comprehensive and unambiguous definition.

The more reason how NO muslim in this universe can explain the Trinity of Jesus Christ in the Quran.

Can you?