chryssanthe: If science is fallible, then how do you suppose it can prove or disprove the existence of gravity with certainty? Hint: Your certainty is a strawman!
Till now, physics is still grappling with what gravity truely is my dear!
Using History to unveil physics or using Chemistry to unveil Sociology is an impossibility! See the person using Strawman arguments calling a refutation a Strawman!? LOL!
Can science prove or disprove God!? It's a question you've not answered!
chryssanthe: Ah yes, your god is conveniently too mysterious for science to detect......but so are invisible leprechauns and mysterious magical fairies!. You're arguing the classic god of the gaps nonsense. Or the other trope you're presenting; a god that is outside of space and time so science can't detect your god in this mysterious place. Amazingly, I have an invisible magical donut outside of space and time which created your god out of powdered sugar and there is no way you could prove or disprove my assertion.
The bible can be interpreted a hundred-thousand different ways, depending on the readers bias. Religious bias is actually the basis of your beliefs as it is with Hindus and Muslims. The bible is a book that claims a god exists, it is certainly NOT a book that proves a god exists. It is a tribal book full of ancient unproven myths and old family lore. It's a book that is a product the time period it was written in. Slavery is condoned. Rape is condoned. Stoning adulterous women is condoned. Stoning disobedient children is condoned. This reflects the dreadful morals of the time period 2500 years ago.
Here you are arguing against science but using a computer which was developed using many scientific theories! probably you drive a car which uses numerous scientific theories, you most likely have taken modern medicines, including anti-biotics or vaccines which directly use the germ theory of disease and the theory of evolution. These medicines would not work at all if evolution were not a fact.
Yeah, you don't seem to know how science works, do you? By the way, nothing you have posted is new. Your arguments are old and tired.
Some people think that Science is anti-religion and religion is anti-science! What ignorance!
These are two different ways of looking at existence my dear.
Nigerians react to a recent video shared online captioning the moment a Man trying to fly a locally made helicopter
Thankfully it didn't take off because this would have been disastrous. I am not saying he didn't try, but he should have added safety mechanisms to protect his life. Imagine if that thing had taken off, how will he land it?
1. He isn't rich and probably financed everything you are seeing with his meagre resources 2. He scratch-built this helicopter. He doesn't have supplies of ready-made components like Engines, Propellers, Gears, Control mechanisms 3. He isn't highly educated: he would have put on Suit and Tie. LOL
People who are no creative will not understand the hurdles he went through to achieve this.
In better climes, he would have been their Elon Musk!
Observation: 1. His helicopter is tail heavy, the CG should move forward 2. He didn't have a pitch control for his main propeller. It would be impossible to fly without a variable pitch control (Swash plate). 3. His engine is Diesel, meaning heavy and slow control response. 4. The engine power can probably lift him off the ground if he perfects the above
Once again, I salute this man.
Only fools will crucify this man! This is still the best helicopter made in Nigeria till date!
budaatum: Adam just named things TenQ, and that is very clearly not science. Looking at things and giving them names is just calling things whatever one wants, and is not the same as the science of testing if what one believes is true!
And Eve being made out of Adam is clearly after "God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them", so I can't see why God would be making a separate female Eve out of some dumb mud Adam unless God needs slaves!
No, I do not believe a single thing about Christ. I test everything myself to know if it is true instead of merely believing without testing because that testing is what knowledge is as opposed to ignorantly believing whatever one is told without checking if it is true or not.
That's why I can quote everything I have quoted in this thread with the confidence with which I have quoted it. It's because there is immense power in the knowledge of the teachings of Jesus Christ which you mere believers have not tested so you may know and have those powers, and why you hate your Muslim neighbour's so much too such that you must twist your beliefs and adopt ignorance to justify your hatred of them as opposed to love your neighbour as Christ taught.
Is the Highlight in RED not a wonderful contradiction!?
Yellow Highlight 1: What is TAXONOMY? Have you heard of Dalton's Atomic theory? How modern is his theory? Does it mean that Dalton is not scientific? I hardly can recall the common names of 200 animals: Adam named probably 7000 species of animals: his IQ must be about 700. LOL!
Yellow Highlight 2: If God created man for His own purpose should He not have His rights over them?
Tamaratonye1: That's true given specific assumptions and definitions. Given a different but equally reasonable set of the same it's not true. So you are begging the question.
You probably don't understand my point. Let me illustrate if for you.
Suppose we don't know any history of civilizations, can we by science alone accurately reconstruct the empires and civilizations that has existed before us?
History is in the frame of reference of Art, Story, past time. Science is in the frame of reference to Science, matter, energy, reactions of matter.
Just as History alone cannot decrypt science, science alone cannot decrypt history.
Same with Religion/ Spiritism and Science. It's a parallel world of view which may cross once in a while.
Tamaratonye1: Which single or collective group of Christians are you asking about? The world would probably not change much, but if some religious assholes did, it might refocus their assholishness toward more innocuous behaviors than they engage in under their religious presumptions.
Throwing out the baby with the dirty bathwater!? LOL! Have you heard this before: "All humans are wicked and destructive therefore for nature to survive, humans need to be eliminated"!
Your point is highly synonymous!!
Tamaratonye1: Fallibility is a sliding scale, with much of science tending toward one side, and most of religion tending toward the other. That science is subject to bias is a canard unless you mean to say that science is more readily prone to the effects of bias than any other human endeavor, and for which I'd like to see some evidence. Quite the contrary, science, as much as any other human pursuit, has developed habits, norms, conventions, and practices which minimize the impact of bias on its conclusions. You want to know what's at the other end of the spectrum? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.
Discard God, morality becomes subjective and there would be nothing that is wrong. Bestiality, Necromancers, Cannibalism, Incest etc. You'll be forced to replace God with your government as a standard by which all will live. I cringe at your offering
Tamaratonye1: FYI, TenQ, there's no such thing as "converting to atheism" - it is not a belief. To be atheist is to live life without faith in the existence of a god or, gods.
So you have swallowed the bait that Atheism is NOT a belief system?
Can one sincerely belief or lack a belief something you know completely?
Using your exact definition here: "To be atheist is to live life without faith in the existence of a god or, gods." By your definition, Atheism is godlessness!
Faith is a TRUST in the integrity of a PERSONALITY!
It is impossible to lack trust in the integrity of a personality who doesn't exist! In other words, Atheism is a Rejection of an Uncaused First-Cause of Everything! This makes Atheists godless! This covers both Gnostic -Atheists and Agnostic -Atheists.
budaatum: First. If you as far as you know, Adam was the first to do taxonomy, you might easily see that Eve was the first person to do science by using her senses to check what she'd been told instead of just ignorantly believing it.
Second. Knowledge of Good and Evil is indeed the knowledge of everything, TenQ, and only those intending to enslave one would deprive one of it least one be free to use one's senses like them. It is a fact that is glaringly obvious that those who eat the fruits of knowledge would be the lords of those who don't.
I know this is all impossible for you to consider because it sounds like I am telling you to worship a serpent, especially after centurys of you believing what you've been told instead of what you can see and read with your own eyes. This is why Jesus was very focused on opening eyes so you may use your own senses to check so you may know instead of making or allowing crap to be made up in your head for you to believe.
Fact is, Adam and Eve did not die when they ate the fruit they'd been told not to eat. And I bet if I told you you would surely die if you did something, and then you do that thing and do not die, you will certainly call me a liar. The question then becomes, who lied. Is it God, or is it those who wrote the book? Or would you want to claim evil doers are not capable of twisting things to their advantage despite claiming that is what I am doing?
God can not possibly be a slave owner. And a God who created humans in its own image to be fruitful and rule and subdue the earth would not demote said humans to slaves in a tiny garden. And sensible humans demoted in such a way would most certainly rebel unless they like being slaves.
Do know that belief is not the same as knowledge. And if you believe anything I have said in this thread then I have failed. Please first become as a child as Christ adviced, by which he meant abandon what you've been told to believe, and then go read the wonderful story of Adam and Eve as written in Genesis 1-5, and you might find that God is not asking you to be an ignorant slave but to be the God that God created you to be before some sneaky evil buggers demoted you to gardeners in their tiny garden and who can not say "Let there be light" without crying NEPA!
Unfortunately for you, well before Eve ate of the fruit, Adam was doing science! Well before Eve was created from Adam, Adam was versed in knowledge
Gen 2:19-20: "And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them: and whatever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."
If the words of Christ meant anything to you, you wouldn't be an atheist: you would be a "little Christ "!
If you believed one tenth what you preach about Christ, the fruit would have been evident!
gameova: I really don't see any difference because they were all Europeans. You really think they wanted to save us from hell fire or what? Why they Introduced the religion was to mess with our minds with the Jesus story to make them philander our resources easily. Think! Don't be a brainwashed sheeple.
I think I concur with you: like all Nigerians are fraudsters!
GodsOwnMan: Use your brain. The colonial masters where working hand in hand with the missionaries. The colonial masters needed a an agreeable society so the missionaries came in to teach Christianity. Christianity teaches 'slaves obey your masters,' 'Your reward is in heaven,' etc. Christianity is a religion that makes the oppressed feel like their oppression is okay as long as their is some vague hope in 'heaven.' Christianity and Islam were very powerful tools in the subjugation of Africans and many indigenous people around the world.
1. Mention the name of one missionary that held a government position in Nigeria? 2. Missionaries from Canada, America, Great Britain cooperated to colonize Nigeria for Britain!?
You awaken tomorrow to find headlines around the world: Science has definitively proven that no god exists - anywhere in the universe. All the religious leaders concur.
How would your life be different?
Would you lose your job? Would your friends abandon you, or would you abandon friends? In what ways would how you spend your time change? Would your expectations for your future change - for the next day, next week, next month, next year, next decade? Would you suddenly lose talents?
Etc.
Brushing the question aside by claiming such a proof is impossible only ducks the question. Millions of atheists around the world enjoy fulfilling lives without needing a god in it, while many millions cannot envision a life without a god in it. What is it that a god adds that cannot be lived without?
1. It would be impossible for science to prove or disprove God because the frame of reference or operations are completely different. 2. What would be your gain if a Christian converts to Atheism? 3. You seem to believe in the infallibility of science to your peril. Science is subject to the bias of the interpreter of available data.
gameova: Imagine Nigeria without Christianity Or Knowledge Of Anybody Called Jesus still practicing Our traditional Religion without any Colonial Interference. Will we all (now Christians) have gone to hell when we died?
Colonial masters didn't introduce Christianity, Christian Missionaries did!
budaatum: I guess you do not understand that you are gods since you were created in God's image, so it's easy for you to accept you are Adam and Eve created from mud and enslaved in a Garden and unable to rule or subdue or be fruitful.
Take time to consider those who brought you this same Bible. They too were descendants of Adam and Eve until they acquired knowledge and learnt to be fruitful and rule over and subdue the earth. They are currently on the way to rule over and subdue the moon and Mars, while we refuse to eat the fruits of knowledge that would teach us to say "let there be light", and there is light.
It's a time thing, thankfully. We will abandon our childish ways one day and stop fearing death.
So to you, knowledge of Good and Evil is exactly the same as knowledge of Science and technology?
As far as I know, Adam was the first to do taxonomy even without eating of the forbidden fruit!
Quran 33:56 إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ وَمَلَـٰٓئِكَتَهُۥ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى ٱلنَّبِىِّ ۚ يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ صَلُّوا۟ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمُوا۟ تَسْلِيمًا Google Translate: Indeed, God and His angels send blessings upon the Prophet, O you who have believed, pray upon him, peace and blessings be upon him.
Composition101: إِنَّ الشيطان وَمَلَائِكَتَهُ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ ۚ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا صَلُّوا عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا Google Translate: Indeed, Satan and his angels pray to the Prophet ۚ O you who believe, pray for him and give peace The only difference between the two is the change of one word highlighted.
Suddenly, the meaning changed!? Who paid Google to mistranslate the Holy Quran? Who is fooling who? What then is the correct translation?
Can muslims explain why or how? What other things are Muslim Apologists hiding under the elusive perfect language (Arabic)?
For your comment if you love the truth: AntiChristian:.. compton11: haekymbahd: mhmsadyq: alfarouq: ictplotter: Watinani:
I've known what you now know! What is hidden would be unveiled!!
That's why you all cannot decrypt simple Arabic.
What else are they hiding in that book you claim? For your information please: AntiChristian:.. compton11: haekymbahd: mhmsadyq: alfarouq: ictplotter: Watinani:
budaatum: So, God did not write the Bible, but God instructed Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
I'm happy you merely believe it, instead of like much else in the Bible, actually doing what it says in it. If you did do what it says, and refuse to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you'd not have bothered to go to school to get knowledge, and you wouldn't educate your children if or when you get any.
The consequence of eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is very clearly not death, since we clearly read that Adam and Eve did not die after eating it but lived another 800 years. And it is clearly stated in the Bible that it is ignorance, and not eating the fruits of trees of knowledge, that kills.
We are saying exactly the same thing: your advocacy is inline with Islam!
Just like satan said: "You shall not surely DIE...!" "...you will become gods (as God doesn't want competition)....!! "you'll know everything to become independent of God!!!"
Do you know that to poison rodents doesn't take a lot of poison. It takes 99.9% delicious inviting food and 0.01% Poison.
budaatum: What a pity, TenQ. Perhaps you assume God wrote the Bible just as many Muslims ignorantly believe Mohammed got his Qur'an from God, when in fact both are written by human beings.
Islam, in Nigeria at least, uses the "You shall not eat of every tree of the garden", to oppress its people far more than Christians do, for at least Christianity translates the Bible into local languages, but Islam mostly hides what's in the Qur'an in the Arabic that most do not understand, just as the early Church insisted the Bible be read in their translation. That is precisely how they create Alimanjeris, by depriving them of knowledge and therefore it's fruits.
That said. If I am told not to eat of one tree, then I understand that to mean I must not eat of every tree, because "every tree" means "every tree", and not "every tree bar one".
Besides, there is no way I could possibly “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground", unless I eat the Fruits of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and when non-eating of the Fruits of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil say, Let there be Light", what would follow is NEPA!, instead of "and there was light", as is rather very obvious.
Did I tell you that God wrote the bible!? The bible consists of a Libra or collections of books written by human beings like you and I.
If eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is what you advocate, it reinforces my claim that Atheism and Islam are brothers and sisters in the same business of going against God's instructions and will while bringing in a pseudo-knowledge as a replacement.
The Petrol engine manufacturer says: use only Petrol and some wise people says diesel actually contains higher power density that petrol (a fact): they now say use diesel instead of petrol. You can see how their pseudo -knowledge has helped in destroying a perfectly built engine.
The consequence of eating of the fruit is worse that DEATH itself and that is what you advocate! SMH!
gshsj: There are temporary contraceptive....use Google ..don't stress me with the ignorance of one Aunt...young gals do reversible contraceptive in abroad like normal
It was a case in a thousand but it happened anyway. It is called adverse drug reaction .
Some people cannot even take the common Athemether Lumefantrine (Lornart, Amalar etc) that we all take for Malaria because of adverse drug reaction.
I am not saying that chemical contraceptives are dangerous (based on statistics): I am just saying that it is better to be safe than sorry especially in a country where child bearing is extremely important.
I hope you know that every drug has its contraindications
budaatum: No, TenQ. Love is not "being a passive onlooker as events pass by".
If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you would find that I, buda, have not been a "passive onlooker as events pass by", because if I had been a "passive onlooker as events pass by", I would clearly not have been here "within the preview of love to correct, nurture, warn, chastise, push or even pull a person (you and the op) away from danger" of your ignorance, which is very clearly what I have been doing precisely because I love you.
With respect to Islam, that has been your charge to me. To keep quiet about them, not to expose them but to mind my Christ Jesus.
I think you point would have been okay iff 1. I speak lies about their Quran, Hadiths and Tafsirs 2. I distort what Islam truely represent 3. I have been abusive or disrespectful of the manner I present my words to them.
Kindly press these Muslims on if they will enter the Jannah that allah created or another.
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: Allah created Adam when He had to create him and He struck his right shoulder and there emitted from it white offspring as if they were white ants. He struck his left shoulder and there emitted from it the black offspring as if they were charcoal. He then said (to those who had been emitted) from the right (shoulder): For Paradise and I do not mind. Then He said to those (who had been emitted) from his left shoulder: They are for Hell and I do not mind
Islam is an expensive joke designed to take people away from God.
Allah created Adam by saying "be!", yet it took him 40 years to create Adam. Is that not a contradiction?
Kobojunkie: 1. I would say in pretending to understand what contraceptive methods would work best for couples as opposed to others. . 2. Well, barrier methods are not 100% effective hence the reason why hormonal methods are suggested. According to research, 16 out of 100 users will get pregnant per year. So your suggesting to your clients that they stick to using barrier methods alone is wrong, when there are other more effective methods that could also work better for them.
3. So long as you are using it yourself, sure you can tell others of it. But to suggest that it seems to work well for you and that it will work exactly the same for others is wrong.
I guess it seems you know only of barrier methods!? 1. I haven't insinuated or suggested "a best contraceptive" method 2. I have not stressed any use of barrier methods: you can check my earlier posts 3. I don't know where you got this!
budaatum: You don't have to become a Muslim! I, an atheist, have been quoting Bible and that does not make me a Christian. After all, I don't believe any of it.
What I do is read so I have an understanding instead of ignorantly letting my lack of belief bar me from learning from the wonderful teaching therein. And I can assure you that if you slap me on one cheek and I turn the other cheek and you slap, you will at some point tire of slapping me if you are a sensible person, but even if you don't stop, you may kill my cheek with your slapping but you most certainly can not kill my spirit. And apart from that, I have the power invested in me by my learning from Christ to say "Peace of the Lord unto you", and remove my cheek from your slapping presence.
After all, I may claim God does not exist, but I would be very stupid to claim the Bible, a book, does not exist, when I can see for myself that it does exist and can be read and can teach me quite a lot, like to love my neighbour even if they have different beliefs and knowledge to my own.
If you are a Christian, it is your duty to read the Qur'an, but first you must become as a child, abandoning all the nonsense you have been told to believe and read it with fresh unpolluted eyes, or you might be like those Christians who believe that eating the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil will kill them even though it is very clearly written that Adam lived another 800 years after eating the fruit and then he died.
I can understand why you stand as an advocate of Islam: after all, the difference between Atheism and Islam is not that far! It's the same cause you serve and the tactics you use is the same old one
Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, Yes, has God said, You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"
Disinformation and Misinformation of the words of God is the tactic of both Atheism and Islam: I am not one bit surprised!
budaatum: The history of how the Islamic section got an oath is somewhere here in NL. It was constant ignorant attacks as expressed in this thread that was the cause of it. And while Seun's oath does not stop those attacks, those unwilling to take it are left preaching to the choir here while the Islamic section now has peace.
Personally, I find that those meant to be the salt of the earth are the one's spreading unlove of their neighbours, which indicates the lack of power in such people who claim Jesus is their Lord though it is obvious they have lost their saltiness. If Jesus is one's Lord, one will use the power invested in one to love one's neighbour so much that after they slap and slap and slap one on both cheeks they will eventually tire and ask one where one's power to still be standing comes from, to which one gets to say, "from Jesus Christ the Messiah, and you want some of that power, accept him as your Lord and Saviour".
Love to you means something very different from what love truly is. It is within the preview of love to correct, nurture, warn, chastise, push or even pull a person away from danger.
To you, love is being a passive onlooker as events pass by. Sorry, that was not what Jesus taught us.
We mean exactly two different things when it concerns love.
Sixfiguresmart: The nerve 9f some asking me to read the quran baffles me. The confidence with which they say it and then the organic realisation that what you are showing them is actual the quran remains the 9th wonder in the world to me.
Do not ever believe anyone who tells you that he is athiest. That is a dawah tactic to hinder you. Smite hard cos muslims are raised with violence. Only violence with facts and logical reasoning humbles them. Smite really hard with logical facts and make their knees touch the ground.
It's the spirit of Islam: it possesses to make a person unreasonable, ignorant and violent: Otherwise, every Moslem commits shirk by associating a human being ( Mohammed) with Allah! You can't even become a Muslim without pledging allegiance to Mohammed!
Christianity Etc › Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 10:10am On Sep 18, 2022
