₦airaland Forum

Jenwitemi: The bible is not meant to be understood, anyway. It is meant to be interpreted according to each individual's programming which will be vast as different individuals have different programmings, hence causing the confusions.

^^^
error,
the bible is not open to any private interpretation but rather the bible explain itself.

Always ask, show me where the bible says so?

What is recorded in GENESIS its meaning maybe contain in Revelation, this then is calling for the persistent study of the words in the bible and also asking question.

If some one should give you a bible explanation that is not consistent with other part of the bible from GENESIS to Revelation, it means that their are errors in such explanations.

A good student in a class will ask other lecturers even his fellow students Questions on a topic he does not fully understand, how much more so the words contain in the bible?
Matthew 7:7 KEEP on asking......

Callotti: What is there to misunderstand about the Bible. . . . .from the 'Snooze Alarm' aka Genesis to the 'Snooze-Button' aka Revelations?
Even the Christians do not understand the 'so-called' Bible. . .
The main reason you have so many versions of THE BIBLE!!!
Only a 'dofus' will read such a thing more than once!

Like any other literary piece. . .

Do people still read 'religious studies' in any part of this world?

In this age of Ipads and Iphones. . .to watch free p0n0?

seeing that it is your virgi.na that controls your brain how can you have the capacity to understand what is being discuss here?

Even a Hen runs away from sex at time but you, you ant have that capacity/control, i wander then what usefulness your mind can serve if not se.xual fantasy/illusion?

Are you a toy?

Will you RUN?
RUN!!!

musKeeto: And how does this work? How can one be saved, restored? Must one believe in Christ and Christ only to be restored, and why?

1timothy 2:3,4
"for this is fine and good befor God our saviour, whose will it is that all sort of men should come to an accurate knowledge of truth to be save"

what is truth?

John 17:17 (jesus in prayer said) "sanctify them by means of the truth "YOUR WORD IS TRUTH""

so, God's word is "truth"

so, according to that 1timothy 2:3,4 people will be saved by coming to an accurate knowledge of the "TRUTH"

again, John 17:3 says, "this is life eternal, their taking in knowledge of you the only true God and of Jesus christ whom thou has sent"

this knowledge is exactly the opposite of what satan wants human to know/do

Adam took side with satan, God is saying, all those that NEED eternal life must take/ stick to his knowledge and not satan.

In other word, dont stick to your own understanding like satan had suggested to Adam,(deciding for himself independent of God) leading to abandonment.

Reconnecting back to God means sticking to the source of life God, resulting in life eternal.
Peace

musKeeto: Salvation from what exactly?

1John 2:15-17
the world is passing away and so is it desires, but he that does the will of God remain forever.

Key essence of the bible = how to remain forever

musKeeto: If an unbeliever isn't able to understand the Bible, then how is he able to get saved?

Believing blindly or in other words, faith?

Proverbs 2:1-5
matthew 7:7, KEEP on asking (key word is "keep" on)

proverbs 2:5, then you will find the very knowledge of God.

cyrexx: Mr, you are so so wrong.

i can list all the contradictions and absurdities in your bible that you claimed was authored by an omniscient being. a book written by an omniscient being should be clear enough to anyone at any level of "spirituality". the fact that it contains contradictions and the fact that several contradictory doctrines can be equally justified from the same bible shows that they are written by men who are subject to errors (you only turn a blind eye to their errors because you are forced to believe it is god's word by the authors else you lose your salvation. shikena)

But i wont list the absurdities and conradictions here due to space, i will just post the links for anybody to see for themselves.

Check them out on this Skeptic's Annotated Bible website

(there is even a quran version on that same website)


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

^^^
this is false.

Limitation of knowledge or ones inability to fully comprehend a theory does not make that theory invalid on a paticular field.

If you could not comprehend a theory and called it invalid and another was able to comprehend it with extra effort, do we now conclude that his claim to understanding the theory is false owing to your inability/lack?

The bible over and over has stated that it is a book that has to be understood with the aid of other parts put into consideration, but some people will always attempt to take verses out of context.

Even the jewish elders had to learn some truth from the young Jesus in the temple, how much more YOU?

"Pride" they say goes befor a fall, if that is what happens to the proud and boastfull i dont think it should be a cause for concern to any discerning person when he "falls"

In a class of learning any student that is too proud and refuses to ask question will crash due to his stupidity resulting from pride and as such remain empty headed.

Jesus said, at matthew 7:7 "KEEP on asking"
maybe he was wrong!

Philip was directed to go and explain the scripture to the Ethiopian Unoc though he had the scriptures and has been reading and yet lacks the understanding,
however, he was the opposite of the proud/pride fill person of today that claims "superior head knowledge" and God said he HATE the proud person.

Since God searches the "heart" and knows what we are inside and someone is found dirty and detestable and proud and as such cannot and refuses help to understanding of this knowledge whose fault should this be?

That mr "A" cant understand and mr "B" does understand, should the claim of Mr "B" be discarded because mr "A" says so?

The bible does not contradict itself, but lack of the "full package knowledge" causes some people to ascribed contradictions.

The bible has a purpose and failure to know/understand the purpose for the bible can lead YOU to read into the bushes.

numo86: @snowy, just d way Yahweh & Jesus are one, so also we christians are one with Jesus, so also a husband is 1 with his wife,but 1 always greater than the other,
Just as Jesus is greater than man, so also Yahweh is greater than Jesus, so also a husband is greater than his wife, they are one in unity but never one in strength & abilities & authority
1 corinthians 11:3 , john 17:21-23, Oneness is not a far-fetched ideology, ,
and there's 1 thing i'm so 100% sure of, That d bible we are holding is not exactly what d apostles wrote & had, there definitly has been some discrepancies, but it doesnt make me doubt d bible, but if 1 read d bible witout any external influence from any doctrine,d person will conclude that Jesus is subordinate to his Father, that is why he is called a son,high priest,mediator, he should discard those names if he's equal with his God(Yahweh)

@nuclear boy, if ur confused please pick ya bible & read 1 corinthians 11:3, i'v quoted this same scripture a million times, and guess what??The holy spirit is not even in d chain of headship & those who are subordinates, And mind u that 1corinthians 11:3 was a scripture written after Jesus ascension, infact Jesus was in heaven when apostle paul penned those words,

^^^
beautiful!

Image123: JeSoul, i fine oh. i v.much doubt they were gathered in Jesus' name. The chiding though was from kunle's talk about The program was well attended and more and more people are coming to the knowledge of truth that tithing is not meant for christians. It was a blatant insinuation.

Jesoul seems to appreciate bible truth more than you, since you survive on tith money, your mind is closed to the truth.
Hypocrite!

OLAADEGBU: Now lets look at the verse you keep quoting without understanding its import:

"For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit" (1 Peter 3:18).

The verse here says that Jesus Christ our Lord died in the flesh and not in the spirit which proves immortality of the spirit. His dead body was also resurrected by the Holy Spirit which is confirmed in Romans 8:11

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you"

You can see that you've been twisting this verse by your NWT to mean that Jesus was resurrected in the spirit when it actually means that our Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected by the Holy Spirit. It is now plain how cults twist God's Word to suit their erroneous beliefs.

you quoted and red and entered into the bushes.

Image123: Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Nobody said Jesus does not have a God. the issue under focus is that Jesus is God

to you Jesus = Yahweh

Image123: ^as to the rest of your post, i have no comment. there is no Christian that doesn't know that Jesus is the Son of God, so I'm at a loss as to why you choked your post with that fact, perhaps to add some weight.

compare this to what you had said earlier.

Image123: so the rest of the post and the numerous Bible references should be thrown out the window because plap thinks she has a superior understanding of one Bible verse? like it or hate it, Jesus is God eternally.

this is why you are a hypocrite

Image123: so the rest of the post and the numerous Bible references should be thrown out the window because plap thinks she has a superior understanding of one Bible verse? like it or hate it, Jesus is God eternally.

hypocrite!

haibe: Matthew 4:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Why will jesus tell satan this if he wasnt God?

plain ignorance

frosbel: Trinity doctrine debunked that's for sure.

ah! Frosbel have mercy on them naa!

Do you want them to loose their sources of emploment?

They cant leave the trinity since it will cost them their jobs/living.

frosbel: Jesus is the father of the new and
And he is indeed Almighty and Lord but also a god in his own right.

^^^
Can you give further clarification on this?

In Which bible is Jesus ever refered to as "almighty" God in is own right?

Even of the "new creation" i have not seen any where the bible refers to christ as "almighty"

Hmmm! Wonders shall never end!

@Image123

truthislight: Am curious.


please, are you a tith payer or a tith receiver?

Please say the truth.

Do you make money from tith?

Rememer, if you are for God you will take the side of speaking truth always.

The father of the lie is satan, and liars are his children.

Your answer will either make you to be for either of them, it does not matter whether we know you are lying or not.

Please answer the question: ARE YOU A TITH PAYER OR A TITH RECEIVER?

(do you received tith money and use some to pay your own tith?)
thanks.

it is possible that our bros Image123 has not seen this question yet that is why he has not answered it yet.

If he is a receiver of tith we will then understand why he is defending it for pocket.

But if he is paying his money out it will make sense then for him to stop and find out how he is paying out his money, if he is being duped in the name of God/christianity.

Let us wait for our brother Image123 to come and clear on this issues.

frosbel: The word was with the Father but the word was not yet a being.

However , I do not want us to debate this issue here, let us revert the other thread to discuss this in detail , otherwise we could derail the purpose of this particular thread - thanks.

I dont want to see you as some one that is trying to bend the truth but rather as one that is and has made a lot of ground shifting understanding and i hope that as you continue your search you will sort things out yourself.

I dont wish any banta with you, i only pop in because of that dbosky question.

When i decide to take someone up it is usually due to deliberate twisting and lying against the scriptures,
wish i have not arrived at that conclussion yet concerning you.

And not when you are doing a good work thus far that i should allow pride to blind me to that.

But if you sould kindly see how this fact did address dabosky's question maybe you should start having an open mind on this issues.

The bible from GENESIS to revelation agrees perfectly when the teaching is gotten rightly.

Peace

frosbel: [/quote]this is a simple and easy question directed at you.
[quote author=debosky]@ frosbel do you know who the 'us' in Genesis is referring to?

see how difficult and long it took you to answer a very simple question because you denied that Jesus had lived befor coming to earth.

"the word(Jesus) was with God(father) in the begining" John 1:1

very simple.
Stop ropping yourself.

Peace

frosbel: God is one and the Lord is one.

God meaning Yahweh and the Lord meaning Jesus Christ.

The word was made flesh, God's wisdom/purpose/plan , for the redemption of mankind now made flesh and brought into being , a reality in the person of Christ.

Hence we have the initiation of the plan in Genesis ;

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." - Genesis 3:15

Notice that the verse above is referring to Christ Jesus through God's spoken word even though he did not exist then, and it calls him the offspring of a WOMAN.

There is nowhere in the bible where God is referred to as a Triune being, the source of this doctrine should be a cause for concern, alas the same catholic church that pentecostals condemn is the same church to which their creeds are aligned.

Finally, the 'US' in Genesis either refers to a congregation of higher ranking angelic beings or God in his infinite majesty. The Jewish Encyclopaedia attests to this fact , that the plurality of Elohim when referring to God , does not necessarily mean more than one.

( http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5704-elohim )

Otherwise we have a problem almost immediately with the next verse ( v27 ) which goes like :

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." - Genesis 1:27

Whereas in v26 it says let 'us' , in v27 it concludes exactly as one would expect with the words HIS , HE and HIM.

Obviously these are singular words and cannot by any stretch of the imagination be made to mean the opposite.

debosky: Why do we like to create titles/names and different groups amongst Christians sef?

Trinitarian, Unitarian, Evangelical, etc, etc. . .

The Lord is ONE - what does this mean? Was that a counting exercise or an expression of the only God worthy of worship?

What does it mean to be a 'trinitarian'? Who defined what this means?

John said the Word was with God and the Word was God - does that contradict the Lord is ONE verse or are they simply both sides of the same coin misunderstood by people eager to assign labels to themselves and to others?

@ frosbel do you know who the 'us' in Genesis is referring to?

if the word was with God in the beginning that should not be difficult to do.

Meaning that God(father) was talking to the word(Jesus)

debosky: @ frosbel do you know who the 'us' in Genesis is referring to?

tidytim: Very true

why will the followers of christ burn people in fire and fellow believers at that?

Why should the followers of christ Behead people for expressing their views of the scriptures?

The fruitage of God's spirit cannot accept such act, the christian ways are peaceful.

Image123: you're wasting people's bandwidth and time. imagine someone with mtn daily one MB coming to such a thread to waste his time, they can curse you more. I'm just advising you sha. on tithe, it appears you're so pained not to have discussed it with me, that's if you ever discuss BTW. I can't wait to give God my next tithe.

Am curious.

Image123: I can't wait to give God my next tithe.

please, are you a tith payer or a tith receiver?

Please say the truth.

Do you make money from tith?

Rememer, if you are for God you will take the side of speaking truth always.

The father of the lie is satan, and liars are his children.

Your answer will either make you to be for either of them, it does not matter whether we know you are lying or not.

Please answer the question: ARE YOU A TITH PAYER OR A TITH RECEIVER?

(do you receive tith money and use some to pay your own tith?)
thanks.

Kirinwa: Each one is accountable for his utterances.I just made my case which I know is true.This does not call for church bashing or misleading assumptions.Morale of the lesson is as long as we are in the world we will meet people who hide under religion to perpetrate evil.

Moderator you may now officially close this thread.Thanks.

close which thread?

Manmuswac made a very pertinent observation concerning a place call "house of God" and you started shouting "close this thread"

is that place called house of thieves or house of God?

You mean thieves go there and after listening to the sermon they continue stealing even right there in the church?

Then of what use is the churches sprouting all over if it is not having the desired remolding effect on people?

There are thousands of churches coming up by the day and the society is continually getting more and more corrupt, why?

The effects of Jesus preaching was that it changes the minds of those that listened to him but that of the churches are having the opposite result, why?

Is it because they are not passing on the message of christ?

If they are not then people should know and run for their life and money.

Dont be afraid of those fraud stars and think that God will be happy/angry with you, cause even Jesus was very angry with those that turned God's temple to caves of robbers.

Yahweh will surely be furiouse with them.

Thank you Manmuswac.

[quote author=i.chuka]The concept of Salvation involves two parties only,God and man.so its either our Lord Jesus Christ is God or He is merely a man.
So the choice is yours to chose who He is in your life.[/quote]what about the mediator?

Did you forget that moses was the mediator of the ABrahamic covanant and Jesus is the mediator of the new covent?

Your bible knowledge needs upgrade,
add honesty and sincerity to it.

Only the pure in heart and not the dishonest heart will ..........

davidylan: Always good to read the bible first before making an authoritative comment such as the above.

"This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme" (I Timothy 1:18-20).

"And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some" (II Timothy 2:17-18).

good it came from you.

LagosShia: You are going in circles.

When I ask how come the disciples could touch an alleged resurrected body,you claim he can "materilize" and "dematerialize".when I ask you to prove he could materialize and dematerialize,you still go back to tell me he was a resurrected spirit.as in common,think! When I asked you how could he have eaten as a spirit,you claim he could materialize! As in seriously are you convincing yourself?

I presented you two verses earlier where the disciples are promised bread and wine to dine in heaven.

Please prove to me spirits or resurrected human bodies can eat and drink.what are you making of the christian belief in a spiritual paradise with no food? Based on what you're explaining resurrected bodies can be physical as well as spiritualized.what happens to "flesh cannot reside in heaven"? Won't the disciples eat and drink in heaven with Jesus (as)?

Like I said when I started contributing to this topic,this topic is a thorn for christians and confusing to even them because your bible mixed things up on this.

you are actually the one mixing things up, the bible words are very clear on this.

The question that he is trying to explain to you is also what is being discuss here, how jesus was resurected.
When one question is being answered you mixe it up with another question.

Is the issue about food in heaven?

He has shown to you that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person as such he was behaving as a spirit person as it is consistent with the behavioural parent for SPIRIT person in the OT,

he also showed to you the words of peter that shows that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit person, but you will not respect the bible but started talking about food, did the angels that came to lot not eat food with him?

Face one thing at a time, will you?

ijawkid: My point in all of this is that::::

Only spirit creatures can materialize and de-materialize..

That has being my point all along...

If we cling to the fact that Jesus was raised up in the flesh ofcus which is contrary to peters inspired words @ 1 peter 3:18,then we'll have to agree that Jesus never went back to heaven......

Because flesh cannot reside in heaven.....

How many times do I have to make this statement.....??

For Jesus to ascend to heaven and live there means he is a spirit as we speak.....

I'm speaking from d bibles view point....

Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit just like the angels b4 descending to the earth......

Now he's back to where he came from...

U expect him to be a flesh up there??

Please let me quote 1 corinthians 15:44 $ 45

New International
Version (NIV)
44 it is sown a
natural body, it is
raised a spiritual
body.
If there is a natural
body, there is also a
spiritual body. 45 So
it is written: “The
first man Adam
became a living
being”[a]; the last
Adam, a life-giving
""spirit"".

Jesus is a spirit in the heaven....

Only spirits leave in heaven....

If u agree to that then u shuld knw Jesus did materialize to appear to his freinds and later ascended to heaven.....

additionally, we have two places of inheritance, heavenly and earthly matthew 5:3,5. And psalm 37:29

So, how one resurects is a function of his inheritance/dwelling.

We have the first resurrection and the second resurrection. Revelation 20:5,6 and Revelation 20:12,13

so, if the resurrection is to heaven the heavenly body will be given accordingly, but if the resurrection is for earthly dwelling, the earthly body will be given accordingly.

LagosShia: John 3:13 (KJV)
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven

This doesn't prove Jesus (as) pre-existed in heaven.this is a narration apparently written after Jesus (as) has "ascended"."Came down from heaven" can be understood as an idiom refering to Jesus (as) being fatherless.

John 6:38 also doesn't say he lived or pre-existed in heaven but that he descended from heaven.

John 6:62 when understood figuratively and taken in context with other verses it clearly doesn't say Jesus (as) pre-existed.let's take a look at this:

John 6:42
They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"

Jesus (as) is also known as the "word of God" because God made him through His word/command "BE" and "he became".so the "word" (logos) is from heaven and descended upon Mary (as).

You need to understand something here: Jesus (as) is the "word of God" figuratively.but the "word of God" which is God's command and manifestation of God that God continue to use to command and create is not Jesus (as).Jesus (as) was a product of the word.

^^^
it is actually something very bad/wrong for someone to come out with Preconceived idears about CHRIST and wishes to sell such irrespective of what the bible says, it can only show that such a person is a deceit.

Lagoshia, has not done any thing other than trying to prove that Jesus and muhamad are equal and just prophet that have never existed befor.

Let us see how deceitful he is.

LagosShia: John 6:38 also doesn't say he lived or pre-existed in heaven but that he descended from heaven.

here is a clear statment by Jesus showing that he had existed befor in heaven, but he refuses to quote that scripture out since it clearly expose him, rather he wrote out the bible portion and made an unrelated statment.

What does that John 6:38 that he is trying to hide says:
"because i have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me"

that is a clear statement that you refered to as an idiomatic expression.

And you will not quote it out else it will expose you for what you are. A "liarq"

LagosShia: John 6:38 also doesn't say he lived or pre-existed in heaven but that he descended from heaven.

John 6:62 when understood figuratively

LagosShia: John 3:13 (KJV)
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven

This doesn't prove Jesus (as) pre-existed in heaven.this is a narration apparently written after Jesus (as) has "ascended"."Came down from heaven" can be understood as an idiom refering to Jesus (as) being fatherless.

does that scripture needs an explanation?

Now, as regard that obvious Statement, you say it an idiomatic express what other thing will you not say about Jesus words as such?

Was that really an idiomatic expression? No
lets here him again, John 6:62:

"what therefor if you should behold the son of man ascending to where he was befor?"
and that was what Jesus did, he ascended into heaven in the presence of his disciples. But the muslim dont like this and will not accept this since they want to teach that islam is the one only true religion, should your folly be my pain? No.

The bible at john 3:13 clearly said that Jesus descended from heaven, that your region and quran does not agree/teach that does not concern christianity it is your own concern and we accept what the bible says as final and when the bible says something we do not need a muslim to come explain to us what a clear scriture like this is saying.
Stick to your quran and we shall stick to our bible and whatever comes from it we ACCEPT.

LagosShia: John 6:42
They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"

your deceit is very glaring, you accepted the reaction of the pherise that says that Jesus parent and brothers are with us as a real statement but the statement of Jesus you say it is an "idiom", why not also say that the pharisees got the idea wrong also and as such there reply was wrong? No, you quoted their statement as factual but that of Jesus you called "idiom", hypocrite you,

"by there fruit we will recognise them"
is this statement also an idiom?
Cause it is having a fulfilment in YOU.

LagosShia: Jesus (as) is the "word of God" figuratively.but the "word of God" which is God's command and manifestation of God that God continue to use to command and create is not Jesus (as).Jesus (as) was a product of the word

lets see John 17:4,5
Jesus says, father i have glorify you on earth, having finish the work you sent me, so now you, father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that i had alongside you befor the world was.
Was this also an idiomatic expression?
HYPOCRITE!
You quoted two bible and use your hands to cover it so that you can explain what you dont even understand away as to deceive people like you.
No wander you succeed in sending people on sucide missions.

What do i have to benefit in misrepresenting or wat the bible say? Nothing, all i can do is give out the truth just the way it is, at least at the end of the the God will find out that i was a honest man.
Isaiah 5:20

ijawkid: Wasn't that child ressurected still a sinner and a mortal??

Now that ressurection is different from the ressurection Jesus under-went......

May I ask u::::

Knowing that ressurection of dead persons had occured in the past.....the instance u gave,Jesus ressurecting lazarus,peter ressurecting tabitha,etc....why do u think Jesus is called the first born from d dead??...

Jesus's ressurection was d 1st of its kind....

Jesus was d 1st person to be ressurected with a heavenly body.....a ressurection to immortality,.....ressurection to heaven......

The truth is::::::::::.....

Flesh can't reside in d heavens......

^^^
the plain truth agrees with the scriptures from start to finish(GENESIS to Revelation)

LagosShia: My friend using emotional outburst to reply with the aim to warn and threaten people not to air their beliefs will not validate your claims.

The verses presented thus far make two point:

1. Jesus descended from heaven
2. He was there "before".Jesus (as) is even recorded as saying "before Abraham was I was".

I explained those two points by talking about Jesus (as) being "the word of God".but I equally stated that the "word of God" is not Jesus (as).when the word/command of God descended upon Mary (as) she conceived.now that is the power and spirit of God Almighty to create.now you cannot say the "word" is in Mary (as) literally because you cannot render God "wordless".God will continue commanding "BE" and His command will manifest.His "word" will keep working and descending from heaven even after Jesus (as) was made and living on earth.

By no means does all that prove that Jesus (as) was in heaven as a living being created/uncreated by God just the way he was on earth.

Now I would ask you to stop your emotional outburst and stop sounding like a nagging woman pleading for something she's deprived of.it doesn't validate your claims.if you want to convince me Jesus (as) pre-existed in heaven as a living being,there is a small challenge or rather christian belief you got to prove using the words of Jesus (as) from the bible.

christians believe Jesus (as) was the one who quelled satan's rebellion in heaven,in the belief that Jesus (as) pre-existed.Jehovah's witnesses have even gone a step further to say Jesus (as) in his "heavenly days" was the angel Michael.now prove to me that Jesus (as) actually pre-existed by proving to me what he did in heaven.validate from Jesus' words in the bible that there was a rebellion in heaven and he was the one who quelled it.

you cannot prove that because it is "christian mythology" formed to fill in a gap and prove a point on Jesus' (as) "divinity" the early church fathers attributed to Jesus (as) to prove he was a "pre-existing god" before he was born by Mary (as).

As for Prophet Muhammad (sa) and also Imam Ali (as) and as a Shia myself,all the twelve holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) we have a belief recorded in Sunni texts that they were pre-existing in the form of the light God created to make them.but we do not claim at all they were living beings in heaven as they were on earth.here is a narration for you to see:

the Prophet (sa): "I and Ali were created of the same Divine Light 14,000 years before Adam was created".(Ahmad Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, Mir Seyyed Ali Hamadani in Mawaddatu'l-Qurba, Ibn Maghazili Shafi'i in Manaqib, and Dailami in Firdaus have quoted the Prophet s.a. )

*sigh*

Ishilove: His name is FXking2012,and no, don't mind 'em bad belle peeps, he is not my lover. He is my friend

o yes! Thats his name.

He and atheist wont enter the same boat.

Ishilove: he is not my lover. He is my friend

and thanks for the clarification, cause some of us have been hoping to get a wedding invite!

frosbel: 4 things :


1. Jesus Christ is the SON of the living GOD

2. He did not pre-exist as a being

3. He was begotten by the Father , through his Spirit

4. God's Spirit is HIM and not another Spirit.


To deny these 4 items is to bring in damnable heresies such as re-incarnation , where a spirit being comes back to earth in bodily form , or even worse polytheism which says that there is ONE God but then he is 3 persons which in my opinion means 3 gods.

Why is it so hard to stick to the bible, or are you afraid of offending your church leaders more than offending God.

When you deny Jesus his 100% humanity , you remove him far from us , and almost make it impossible for MAN to relate with him, his sufferings , love and sacrifice for mankind.

Furthermore, the bible says that God cannot be tempted , yet we have some 'know it alls' trying to interject other meanings into the words of God thereby adding to his word , by saying that God can be tempted.

Jesus was tempted, he was tired, he slept, or do you not remember that God neither sleeps nor slumbers .

Guys stop this mess, go back to your bibles and read.

Love !!

guy, dot contradict what the bible and Jesus has said to make your wrong opinion stand.

Did you not read that John 3:13?

Must we bend to agree with islam and you teach?

Can you show a scripture that says that Jesus has never existed befor?

If you wish to show absolute respect for God's word or not is your BUSINESS.

But dont denied a clear statement to denied a clear bible teaching.

If you twist scriptures to deny that Jesus was the first person that God created/first bone of all creation i hope you can also rewad yourself with everlasting life.

If you dont have all the facts of what the bible teach why not humble and continue reading?

On this you will only keep on contradicting scriptures.

For any teaching to be biblical it has to agree in the bible from GENESIS to revelation

frosbel: Why is it so hard to stick to the bible, or are you afraid of offending your church leaders more than offending God.

stop whining,
dont go beyond what is written.
No body is teaching reincarnation, unless you dont know what reincarnation is.

Reincarnation is a process that does not terminate, but the bible said that God sent his son from heaven to earth a one off process and you shout reincanation, what?

Is the hand of God tied like that of Frosbel? That he can not send his son from heaven?

Start learning to have deep respect for God's word the bible and all you can do is ensure you dont contradict the bible GENESIS to revelation instead of twisting it.

Isaiah 9:6 said he shall be called mighty God, did God made a mistake and Frosbel is right?

Dont go beyond what is written.

God cannot be tempted means that almighty God Yahweh cannot be tempted.

LagosShia: This doesn't prove Jesus (as) pre-existed in heaven.this is a narration apparently written after Jesus (as) has "ascended"."Came down from heaven" can be understood as an idiom refering to Jesus (as) being fatherless.

guy, are you ok?
who made you a judge of what is an idiom and what is a plane statement here?

Must you twist the words of the bible to suit your quran?

That statement is very clear if you dont like it the way it is Thats your cup of tea, please, dont attempt that act of misrepresenting the bible again.

LagosShia: John 3:13 (KJV)
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven

that is a very clear statement in the bible that your religion does not agree with, but this is not islam but christianity and has nothing to do with what islam teach and belive in.

You teach that muhamad and jesus are just prophet and that they have never never existed befor, well, if that is the case with your muhamad note, it is not so with christ.

While you are here you better not try to twist the scriptures all you can do is ask question or quote a counter scripture from bible if you have any and not to lie and say that the words of Jesus was an idiomatic statement just to suit your islamic stance.

Dont attempt that again please.