₦airaland Forum

superior1: Bro, do you believe the entirety of the scriptures as infallible inspired word of God upon which every issue on doctrine should be resolved.?

Revelation is written in symbols and signs.

Why go literal ?

what are you saying ?

Did i use my word or i quoted the book of Revelation to show how the bible use the word 'torment' ?

Any way, my post was not directed at you.
Those that appreciate the truth will read and understand.

I have posted the Revelation for others to see how the word torment is used there.

alexleo: This is just your own words and ideas. The bible said they were cast into the lake of fire and tormented there forever and ever. You cant change it with your own words. Its not allowed here. You people talk about sticking to the bible yet when we stick to the bible you import your own words and explanations. It doesnt work that way. I dont need your explanations or what you feel, i need what the bible says.

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:3-10).

alexleo: Bros this are your own descriptions and ideas. The scripture said forever and ever, we will leave at that. The scripture said day and night. We will leave it at that. The scripture said they ll be tormented, we ll leave it at that. The bible did not mention that they ll exist in paradise. No addition or minus by any of us is allowed here sir. Thanks.

But revelation was written in signs ? No ?

Pastor Kun: Even in your so called untouched version she has make up on, her hair is permed, she is carrying a bouquet and wearing a transparent lace gown all of which is against your deluded deeper life doctrines .

Thank you!

MostHigh: Yashua hater

Why not quote the master

Its clear Paul is your stumbling block

What if someone has done all those and later repented nko ?

OLAADEGBU: See how folks fail exams without difficulties. What happened to your comprehension? I said a simple Yes or No to each of the questions would do. Which part of that don't you understand?

Sharrap !

shdemidemi: My answers to your questions

Have I always loved God my Creator with all my heart, mind, soul and strength? ___NO
Have I made a god in my own image? a god to suit myself? ____YES (I idolise money and my flesh sometimes)
Have I ever used God's name in vain? ____YES
Have I kept the Sabbath holy? ___NO
Have I always honoured my parents implicitly? ___NO (I try to the best of my ability though
Have I murdered (God considers hatred as murder)? ____YES (HATED)
Have I committed adultery (including premarital sex and lust)? ____YES
Have I stolen (the value is irrelevant)? ____YES
Have I lied (including fibs and these questions)? ____YES
Have I coveted (been greedy or materialistic)? ____YES


Romans 7---

My condition

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

18[b] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing [/b]

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

My Conflict
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

18b)for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

22 For I delight in the law of God(I really want to be good) after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members(my body members), warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

My Conclusion

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me

24 O wretched man(shdemidemi) that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

why did i even gave a like to that ^ post

think of the two witnesses in Revelation also, there preaching caused torment to the people on the earth.

Where they in fire ?

Read from Revelation 11:3 to 10.

But see verses 3 and 10:

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (Revelation 11:3).

"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:10).
.................

How did this two prophet torment people that were alive ? Was it by fire ? No, but by their preaching befor they were killed.

Read it up.

So also the parable of Jesus about the rich man and lazarus is about the torment that the changed in favour for the common people that followed christ resulted in torment for the rich people(pherisees) due to the preaching of this followers of christ.

We know how they reacted to the preaching of stephen.

They blocked their ears and screamed and pelted him with stones (but stephen and other apostles were fevoured).

But their preaching tormented those pherisees, they made every effort to kill the followers of christ to avert the torment.

The fire for the rich man(pherisees) shows everlasting rejection for him and what he stands for.

The teaching of hell fire is a reproach to Yahweh, the almighty God i love so much.

^^^^

Laughing in 10 languages.













Hypocrites!

Hypocrites of the highest order!

Emusan: I so much like your signature but sometimes the way you interpret scriptures always piss me off on your threads.

John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

You quoted this very verse and bold the last sentence but neglected the first statement with color. This very first statement has ended any arguement about TRINITY.

Imagine Frosbel is in Emusan and Emusan is in Frosbel....does it mean anything to you?

In Phil 2:6-11 ".......9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name(including God's name):
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven(God reside in heaven), and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

in these verses you'll see that God keeps exalting Himself in different forms.

Do you think that 'at the name of Jesus' God should bow?

The word 'Name' itself is an abstract Noun. Someone can have more than one name it doesn't mean the person is splited into many.

More and more to say about the trinity but time will not allow me.

TRINITY simply means GOD: the Father, the Son, and the Holyspirit NOT God of the Father, God of the Son, and God of the Holyspirit-three Gods.

"For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:27-28).

superior1: 2Peter 2:4 is not Gehenna but Tartarus. Anyway, that is not the point. Then do you agree the following about Hell
1. It is still existing and will continue existing
2. It is a place of suffering
3. Immortal spirits delivered into it will suffer for eternity
Just indicate which you do not agree with and if you do with hell, let me know

Hell is a latin word. Think!

It was not the original word used by bible writers.

superior1: Bro, good bible study materials and a quality time spent with the Holy Spirit can make you understand these things better.

Death means separation from two things, when you come across words like this first determine the exact Hebrew or Greek word used as you might have also discover English is actually poor atimes to elucidate and define a word correctly

Death doesn't mean annihilation or removing from existence. Like I said earlier, it means separation eg I can tell you I am dead to football, does it mean any body died?, it just tell you I am separated from the round leather game.

I need to tell you again to study to show yourself to approve to God.

Now consider the following types of death, to further show you what I am trying to explain

Physical death

Eccl 12:7

body and soul

spiritual death

Isa 59:1-2

man and God

second death

Rev 21:8; 22:14-15

man and God

dead to sin

Rom 6:2,11; Heb 7:26

Christians and Sin

dead to law

Rom 7:4
Christians and law

marriage dissolved by death

1 Cor 7:39
man and woman

see what the bible calls death:

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6).

superior1: Then you agree there is Hell then?

Lol. Tatarus means prison.

superior1: Na na, read 2 Thessa 5:23. Paul said I pray God to sanctify your Spirit, Soul and Body.

Job 32:8
New International Version
But it is the spirit in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding.

New Living Translation
But there is a spirit within people, the breath of the Almighty within them, that makes them intelligent.

1Timo6:16 again you take that verse out of context, read the whole chapter!

You are repeating soul two times.

Body and spirit = Soul. Gen 2:7

so, that place is talking about the complete man and his spirituality being kept in God's favour till the end.

alexleo: You are mixing it up. Verse 21 was talking about the new heaven and the new earth. Noo mixing up pls. Lets stick to the scripture. Whose tears will God wipe away? Tears of those in the lake of fire?

Here is the chapter in question. from verses 1-7

21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
[/b]
5 [b]Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me,[b] “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done![c] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

This is completely for those who overcame.

This is after death was cast into the lake of fire in verse 14 of chapter 20 of Revelation.

That is why there is no more death in verse 4 of the next chapter 21.

olumyde: frosbel, truthislight, and co will continue to avoid this my conclusion. Cos what they are trying to do, is to water down God's judgement, so it doesn't look so bad to unbelievers. While Jesus was literaryly scaring ppl, yes, scaring ppl, in Mark 9 with hell or gehena or whatever you call it.

You need to upgrade, Jesus christ did not used the word 'hell' since he did not speak latin.

He used the word Gehenna, a refused dump outside the walls of Jerusalem.

Help yourself and improved your knowledge.

Peace.

Mintayo: You better read d Bible and ask for the Holy Spirit's(if u believ in Him),u v been decieved so well-that Genesis u quote is talking abt abraham's body(corruptible body),not an incorruptible(1 cor 15:42-44) which we will have at d resurection-everybody will die and b buried and become dust= dis is talkin abt our body!
Psalm 9:17=The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

I pray that the Lord will deliver you!

Sorry, the Genesis is talking about Adam.

olumyde: All you wrote are assumptions and i'm not obliged to answer your questions, cos we are not debating logic. We are looking at a verse and interpreting it. It says "d devil...was THROWN INTO the lake of burning sulphur". How can this be more clearer? and also that "they will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER" not that "what the fire will do is like forever and ever". Its THEY WILL BE TORMENTED FOR DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER. Its a simple sentence

The devil is a spirit, will literal fire burn a spirit being without a material body ?

If you like dont answer questions, thats your call.

Believe what you like, those that know that God is not foolish will search more into what is written.

true2god: U have come again with ur skewed reasoning. Have u seen the word TV in the bible before? I have been watching TV since i was a kid, so reason well.

The topic at hand has norring to do with TV but a sensitive subject Jesus tot over and over again. There is no prophet or teacher that mentioned hell fire as much as Jesus. If u agree with me that Jesus created all things den u wont argue\twist wat Jesus taught extensively on with illustations (the richman and lazarus). Jesus said the richman asked Lazarus to be raised back to life (cos he had died on the earthly realm) so that he can warn his five brothers in the world (still alive) to change\amend their ways so that they wont suffer wat hes seriosly passing thru after ge had died.

It is either u accept wat christ taught or u dnt. The explanation to this verse is simple enof for a primary sch pupil to understand let alone a mature student. If ur organization teach otherwise thats their problem.

Before Frosbel went reprobate he believe all wat Jesus taught. Even if he changes\rebels against the word of christ dat wont change the foundation of the word of God.

Since you say you know, i leave you to your knowledge.

Peace.

Compare this scriptures as well:

"And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou may be my salvation unto the end of the earth." (Isaiah 49:6).

As such, the apostle paul can say this below to the Gentiles and Jews he was preaching to:


"But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth." (Acts 13:45-47).
...................

This below was the Original promise to Abraham:

"And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." (Genesis 22:18).

this is not to say that the OT is useless, because without OT there will be no NT.

However, we cannot ignore what is in the OT itself as being the purpose of the NT.

Abraham was told that by means of "his seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themself"

plaetton: @Goshen360


Did god divide himself into two, one for Judaism and the other for Christianity?

No, God did not divide himself into two.
But that God set out the way he wants things done in the future.

The former routine was geared toward extracting the seed/messiah from Israel.
Hence, the messiah will lead the way forward.
See:

"Behold, there are days coming, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jeremiah 31:31-33).
..............

Yahweh himself said that ^.

Should we ignore it ?

And the messiah later did this:

"Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new Covenant in behalf of my blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:20).
............

Hence, the messiah sets the way forward, which he did with the two commandments on love of God and love of neighbour.

plaetton: What is the origin of this new covenant?
Who formulated it?

I just shown it to you up ^ there.

plaetton: By the same token can we say that Islam is the new and third covenant that replaced the second covenant ?

Islam has a very seriouse problem,

to help you understand it, an illustration will serve:

Consider a student in a class writing a test, student A is the brain that knows what the question is all about and knows the answers, and to that end, he is solving accordingly.

Meanwhile, student B just happen to like student A work and started copying without knowing the head and tail of what student A is writing.
When student A on his way to summit his test finds out some solving needs to change and he on the way made necessary corrections on the way befor summiting his test will student B know what and how student A has corrected on his test ? No.

Islam copied Judaism without noting the significance of the messiah and the adjustment the messiah has done to the laws of moses.

But Islam is still killing their perent their brothers, their children and any that speak against their god as the Law of moses said, not knowing that the modus oparandi has been changed via the promised messiah.

That ^ is what copying can cause.

hence, the problem with Islam having its laws commanding killing while the NT does not.

Those are the changed laws that @Alfa posted on the op.

plaetton: Isn't it the so-called new covenant more like the wishful thinking of the followers of a new religion?

No

think of the two witnesses in Revelation also, there preaching caused torment to the people on the earth.

Where they in fire ?

Read from Revelation 11:3 to 10.

But see verses 3 and 10:

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (Revelation 11:3).

"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:10).
.................

How did this two prophet torment people that were alive ? Was it by fire ? No, but by their preaching befor they were killed.

Read it up.

So also the parable of Jesus about the rich man and lazarus is about the torment that the changed in favour for the common people that followed christ resulted in torment for the rich people(pherisees) due to the preaching of this followers of christ.

We know how they reacted to the preaching of stephen.

They blocked their ears and screamed and pelted him with stones (but stephen and other apostles were fevoured).

But their preaching tormented those pherisees, they made every effort to kill the followers of christ to avert the torment.

The fire for the rich man(pherisees) shows everlasting rejection for him and what he stands for = the permanent rejection of the Jewish religious system for the new system that christ brought.

Peace

About the rich and lazarus, it is is = a parable.

Christ said:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13).

No man has ascended into heaven. Simple.

There was no Abraham in heaven and no body in hell fire no where.

Fire and torment means rejection and disgraced to the Jews also.

mcfynest: so based on what you typed above you are saying that if i die as a sinner i will be raised up again. right? ok i believe that one. so i will be given another opportunity to either accept Jesus or satan? if yes is your ans, then whats the essense of preaching the gospel? why should i do good when i know i would be given another opportunity?

The siners that are to be resurrected are to be taught about christ since they never had an opurtunity to hear about christ.

Some of them died befor the gospel about the christ got to where they are.

For those that had heard and refused it, why should they be resurrected for what they had rejected befor ? Is it by force ? No.

Those that have heard, the witness have been served:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14)..

Those that that ^ have reached have been served, if they rejected it and then die they die for good hevent rejected christ, the source of hope for further life for mankind.

But when the dead are resurrected and taught about christ and they still reject it, they will die a second death = a death without resurrection symbolised by fire in the bible:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Revelation 20:14).

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15).

benalvino: Same with your point you couldnt tell me where Jesus was called michael so no need to go on... my last respond on this

a lot of evidence have been shown on this thread and others, your denial is in your head.

BERNIMOORE: truthislight

friend, benalvino is not making a case of who is wrong, he said 'even if you are wrong'(a subordinate clause) anyway how is your sunday?




i think i like benalvino for his consistency, others fled with nothing to contribute at least on this tread.

Am well, my sunday is ok.

Saying the truth for the sake of the truth is pleasing to God and men.

He likes to dodge the truth.

I only hope the point that has been made so far is not wasted on him.

Thanks though.

benalvino: Am asking to provide a scripture that says Michael is another name for Jesus or Jesus called by the name Michael... till then adius.

Question for you.
https://www.nairaland.com/1358087/jesus-not-mediator-everyone

You that dont even know who is called "Angel of the church" in Revelation, how can you be an authority that we or people should take you seriousely ?

Is it anything that you dont know that you call a lie ?

Smh for you.

Nascimento: When you humble yourselves you'll learn deep things of God. God is love. Hell is just a fabricated story in christaindom and not a Bible teaching. It has a pagan origin. In christaindom you'll see the paganism in Christianity.
Nobody Don reconcile those scriptures wen I post above o.

The word hell is a latin word and has a latin meaning to the latin people that worship satan.

The Jews that wrote the bible did not use that word.

That word found its way into the bible when the bible was translated from greek to latin.

The words that the Jews used was sheol, fire and Gehenna.

The greek used hedes for grave.

Hell and it meaning is a confusion by satan himself.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23).

that ^ is the truth taught in the bible, that the wages of sin is death.

But hell fire teaching has changed it to mean that the wages of sin is eternal life with torment, but this is simply supporting the lie that satan told Eve in eden, that she "positively will not die na !

Now, Yahweh is the wicked one that will torment mankind forever and ever abi !

What a deceit !

Meanwhile, see what God told Adam the cause of the problem:

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of dust was thou taken, for dust thou art, and unto dust shall thou return." (Genesis 3:19).

That ^ is what God told Adam the number one offender that lived for 930yrs.

So, eternal torment is from who ?

God or satan ?

You be the judge.