₦airaland Forum

The Bible makes it clear that Jesus was killed for calling himself the Son of God:

[John 10:36] Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said I am the Son of God?

[John 19:7] The Jews answered him (Pilate), We have a law and by our law, he (Jesus) ought to die BECAUSE he made himself the Son of God.

That the Disciples believed and proclaimed Jesus was the Son of God and doing miracles in His name was the reason they were also killed.

But the quran denies that Jesus was killed and says someone else was killed in his stead:

[Quran 4:157-158 Shakir] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Whether or not he was killed or someone was made to replace him, the fact remains that an attempt was made on his life. This is the big issue as no muslim seems to be asking “why was an attempt to kill Jesus made at all” As earlier stated, the bible tells us the reason he was killed but the quran and the muslims fail to tell us why they wanted to kill him and somebody had to be used to replace him.

If Jesus was attempted to be killed for calling himself the Son of God and yet Allah saved him, doesn’t that show he was saying the truth? Why would Allah save him for saying blasphemy if his claim was truly blasphemous?

Jesus declaring himself as the Son of God is a sin of ‘shirk’, an offence punishable by death in islam. Then, why would allah save him from the death he deserved by committing shirk? Quran says Allah does not forgive the sin of shirk: [Quran 4:116 4:116 Yusufali] Allah forgiveth not (The sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right). If this is true, why did Allah claim he rescued Jesus from death after he had committed an unforgivable sin – shirk, worthy of death?

Unquestionably, Jesus is the Son of God and savior of the world.

ADAMSFMM:
Since September 11, people around the world have been asking this question. The atrocities of that day shocked and astounded. As horrific as they were, Christians must still be guided by the wisdom of our Lord Jesus who said, "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?… You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

My friend, tell the readers how Muhammad was a mercy to the world. If all of you muslims have nothing to substantiate it, throw your quran away as it contains lies.

ADAMSFMM:
Sadly, church history is replete with examples of evil perpetrated in the name of Christianity. There have been far too many times when Christians have blatantly violated the example and teachings of Christ. Perhaps the ugliest, most relevant and well-known example is the Crusades of the Middle Ages, when true Christians and "professing" Christians engaged in "holy" war. They brutally tortured and slaughtered thousands of Muslims to regain a piece of territory both groups deemed holy.

Firstly, your post has nothing to do with quranic lie that Muhammad is a mercy to the world.

Secondly, Jesus didn't enjoin his believers to fight holy or unholy war. If people did that in his name, they are on their own.

Demmzy15:
But it's OK for Joseph to marry Mary at the age of 90, when she was 13. He had sex with her after she gave birth to Jesus probably at the age of 14 years. Hypocrisy at work!!!

So you have nothing to justify your allahh's statement as in the OP?

Why do you still believe him?

Demmzy15:
O boy go school o!

Can an English man speak his own language? Smh!!!

Demmzy15:
Is that a threat?!

Stop the irrelevant talks.
Tell me how Muhammad was a mercy to the world. What did he do to earn that?
Is it the killings of the infidels or the raiding of commercial carravans etc?

Demmzy15:
Lie-lieman2012

No be ya quran talk am?
Put up your defence now if you have any.

OREMUSSANCTUS:
Don't ve much to say, buh lemme leave wif one sentence.
"muhamMAD was a mad camel"

I wonder how anybody can believe the quran, even if only for the fake statement as in the OP.

The terrorist groups wouldn't have existed if not for Muhammad's coming.

Ask the Jews and the Christians of his days, they would say Muhammad had no mercy.

Presidency25:
I want to know, is Allah an English word or Arabic? If it's Arabic, why then do muslims used it while speaking English instead of just saying God? Could it be that Allah is not the same as God?

Allah is a personal name of a deity, one of the gods in Kaaba.

[Quran 21:107 Shakir] And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the worlds.

With all the killings and harshness to those he described as infidels, how was Muhammad a mercy to the world?

Demmzy15:
So I can't be vulgar to you as a person, but you can come and abuse and curse my religion for free?! You must be sick, like I said earlier deactivate your account because you're nothing but a loser. You think this job of yours could do you any God?! It's better for you to leave so as your "sins" won't pile-up.

You are so desirous that I leave. Smh!!!

My presence is intimidating you and your allahh. For wanting me to leave, I will not leave. I will keep pricking your heart with the truth.

Demmzy15:
Ode!!! Deactivate your account shap shap jor, this humiliation is too much!!!

See your choice of words. Islam doesn't have morals. Abuses, killings etc are the trademark of the evil religion and that shows the true nature of your god (satan in disguise).

May God deliver you from islamic/satanic deception.

Empiree:
Bla bla bla bla. You are under pressure mister. Dont suffer panic attack over this. Talks are not enough. All you have to do is provide "Muhammad's(SAW) words" in the Quran. Hadith remains secondary source. Whether it's a daif or fabricated hadith is another story.

See, if you think you can be smart, you have got smarter muslims ready to confont your nonsnse allegations. You are done like dinner.

Trash!!

Why do you need a secondary source if the quran is complete?

Empiree:
You have confirmed Quran's allegations to be true. You are like a christian guy I met before who said bible is word of God, word of Satan, word of man, word of Angel

Whose words is the quran? There are clear evidences from the qupan that Muhammad's words are clearly manifested in it.

Besides, the quran is incomplete without the words of Muhammad, a mortal man, which you call hadiths. Why is it that the quran doesn't contain everything about islam and have to largely depend on Muhammad who came from idolaterous background?

9jaforlife:
[size=14pt] Where

These are the words of the Quran, revealed to Prophet Muhammad himself (PBUH)...

Q6:103
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things"


Q7:143
"And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, ‘My Lord, show me (Yourself) that I may look at You.’ (God) said, ‘You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me.’ But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, ‘Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."

---

Even when the Prophet (PBUH) made a miraculous journey through the heavens in which he spoke to Allah, he was asked by a companion, Abu Dahrr, whether he also saw God, the Prophet's reply (PBUH) was...

"There was only light, how could I see Him?” (Saheeh Muslim)

You don't have to resort to lies, Mr truthman!
[/size]

Huum!!

How much of islam do you know?

Muhammad claimed he saw allahh who reduced your salat to 5 from 50 per day. Isn't it?

I swear by the star
when it goes
down.Your
companion does not
err, nor does he go
astray; Nor does he
speak out of desire.
It is naught but
revelation that is
revealed, The Lord
of Mighty Power has
taught him, The
Lord of Strength; so
he attained
completion, And he
is in the highest
part of the horizon.
Then he drew near,
then he bowed. So
he was the measure
of two bows or
closer still. And He
revealed to His
servant what He
revealed. The heart
was not untrue in
(making him see)
what he saw. WHAT! DO YOU THEN DISPUTE WITH HIM AS TO WHAT HE SAW?
And
certainly he SAW HIM
in another
descent, At the
farthest lote-tree;
Near which is the
garden, the place to
be resorted to.
When that which
covers covered the
lote-tree; The eye
did not turn aside,
nor did it exceed
the limit. Certainly
he saw of the
greatest signs of his
Lord.
Qur'an 53:1-18

Therefore Muhammad must have contradicted the quran for seeing your allah who it says no vision can grasp.

malvisguy212:
Weldon my good friend.

Hi bro, God bless you.

lepasharon:
Daniel saw God too.

Muhammad said he saw allah too.

Empiree:
Exactly what I was expecting AT-TAQQIYA in action!.


To even think that God Almighty spoke these words is blasphemy. These are men's inputs; blaspheming against God. Nonsense!

These are just few of what Quran and hadith said that people of the Book corrupted their scriptures and you sit their telling me these are analogies? Joke!

What are you saying?

Was it God who spoke the words you are talking about?

Did any Jew or Christian claim the Bible contains only the words from the mouth of God? If a king or anybody said or did anything wrong and it was so recorded in the Bible, is that what you call corruption of it?

Is it not a lie that God wrote any book with His own hands and given to Moses and Jesus as the quran claims? Where are the Books today? Even the quran was written by Muhammad's scribes, not allahh.

The fact that the Bible records everything as it was, good or bad shows the truthfulness of the Holy Book.

Empiree:
Of course they are not because your God shaves his beard and private part or feet. Read

International Standard Version
At that time, the LORD will hire a barber to come from beyond the Euphrates River—that is, the king of Assyria—and he will shave your heads, your leg hair, and your beards, too. Isaiah 7:20


Or this one where bible God was staggering after waking from sleep. Read

Then the Lord awoke as if from sleep, Like a warrior overcome by wine. Psalm 78:65


Also bible addresses God as foolish (astagfurllah)

New International Version
For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. 1 Corinthians 1:25

And finally 2 Samuel 22:7-9 Bible says smoke ose from his nostrils like Sango and fire also comes from his mouth. Read


“In my distress I called to the Lord;
I called out to my God.
From his temple he heard my voice;
my cry came to his ears.
The earth trembled and quaked,
the foundations of the heavens shook;
they trembled because he was angry.
Smoke rose from his nostrils;
consuming fire came from his mouth,
burning coals blazed out of it.

These are blasphemies. I am glad you reconfirmed moses saw God face to face

Those are not blasphemies, they are analogies. But even if they are, do you hold God responsible for them or the speakers?

Rilwayne001:
How many of your thread have they deleted? Do you complain to them? Are they the one that told you that some people threatened them? Why are you lying?




If you are not interested in this forum, you should simply deactivate your account, its as simple as that. As long as you are online, I will always mention your moniker. You can always ban me if your not satisfied.

Old man.

Thank you. May you get old as well.

How do you know whether or not my moniker has been deactivated? I know it will gladen many of you if I leave. Am not leaving completely but will not be active as usual since you muslims are not ready for the truth.

I am surprised that you muslim guys could still open a thread trying to find fault with the bible. If same is said about islam you start spewing fire and brimestone that forces owners of nairaland to be quickly deleting any thread against islam.

Islam can only survive by threats and killings. That shows the deity behind the religion. Smh!!!

Please don't mention my username again because I have lost keen interest in the forum. I only came to see this thread by chance.

Rilwayne001:



[size=15pt] THE BIBLE SAID NO. [/size]

1Ti 6:15-16 …………--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Exo 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

The question is: How true is this using the same bible?

Cc; allnaijablogger, malviguy, truthman2012, ifeann, true2god, jagoon, jcross, proffdada macelliot, bingbagbo, prophetudeme

God is the ALMIGHTY who cannot be fully or entirely understood by man. In fact, what makes Him God is that He is beyond human comrehension.

God can appear to people in different forms. He can appear as an angel or a man. He can reveal Himself in a way that man can have the capacity to withstand. He also has a glorious form that is beyond man's ability to behold with the natural eyes.

In those occasions God revealed Himself to Moses and others, He decided to do so in a form that man's eyes could behold. But Moses requested specifically to see God in His full glory: ''And he (Moses) said, I beseech thee, shew me thy GLORY'' (Exodus 33:18). In this case, God had to develop a strategy for Moses to see a part of His GLORY.

Please note that earlier in the same book of Exodus, the bible records that Moses and some others saw God in a form man can see Him:

Exo 24:9-11 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and SAW THE GOD OF ISRAEL . Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; THEY SAW GOD , and they ate and drank.

The fact that Moses requested to see God in His GLORY proves he did not see Him in His completeness the first time he saw Him.

Therefore, when Timothy and John said no one can see God as in the New Testament, they must have been talking about seeing His completeness as they were aware of the Old Testament events where some people saw Him in a form.

May God grant you muslim guys divine understanding.

KellamLeTorneau:
Ooh! Sorry for that. I thought you said your own as in ours. And yes, we agree as well. Part of the articles of faith in islam is believing in all the books sent before the Quran, the injeel (bible) included. But we are required to believe in the true gospel, that which doesn't go against the teachings of the Quran. Because the true gospel is in harmony with the teachings of the Quran, like if you accept the bible did speak of Muhammads coming, and believe that to be part of the bible, then that is in perfect harmony with the teachings of Muhammad and the Quran.

Do you know the teachings of the Gospel?

Jesus says '' I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, nobody can come unto the Father but by ME'' (John 14:6).
Then, what is the need for Muhammad?

Jesus said '' Whatever you ask of me, that I will do.'' Do you ask in the name of Jesus?

Do you accept God as the Father?

Do you accept Jesus as the Son of God?

Those are some of what the Gospel entails.

Like I said before, I may not respond to you again, having stated the truth. I am not into a debate of who wins or loses.

KellamLeTorneau:
But there's no sign of tampering is there? The Dead Sea scrolls passed all tests to prove its originality. But your claims about pagan practices in islam, EzioAuditore created a thread that explained all that to you. A thread I can remember seeing you in before you escaped after he dealt with you. Why then are you recycling? But indeed, you christians have no explanation for why you worship a pagan god.

The fact that the dead sea scroll was discovered by muslims and that it contains some verses that approve islam shows something is fishy.

Besides, who conducted the tests you claim it passed?

About EzioAditore, I wish to inform you that am not into a debate of who wins or loses. Once I have stated the truth, it is left to you to accept or reject it.

The truth remains that it is the Devil's ambition to be worshiped as God and he has achieved that through islam, hence the similarities between paganism and islam.

KellamLeTorneau:
Verse?

It shows you didn't read my earlier posts with comprehension. This is the verse again:

And this GOSPEL of the kingdom
shall be preached in ALL the
WORLD for a witness unto ALL
NATIONS and then SHALL THE
END COME (Mat. 24:14)

KellamLeTorneau:
Hmm. If we quote from the Quran, will you believe it? Is it not better if we quote out of your own book?

God said in our own book that Jesus Gospel is to be preached till the end of the world, then who sent Muhammad to bring islam?

KellamLeTorneau:
The dead sea scroll is still existing, and the name Ahmad was found in It, just as the Quran tells,

And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"

The Quran said exactly the name that was found in the dead sea scrolls years later. And Jesus did claim he was here to confirm the laws of past prophets in the book of matthew, and jesus did say he was sent only to the lost sheep of israel in your bible did he not?

As for the jews, there are various hadiths that confirm the jews in arabia had knowledge of Muhammads arrival. Here's the two I could dig up.

"Bring forward the most learned among you before me."  When that man came forward, he and Muhammad spoke in private.  Finally Muhammad asked him, "Do you know that I am the Apostle of Allah?"  The rabbi answered, "By Allah! Yes, and the people know what I know.  Verily your attributes and qualities are clearly mentioned in the Torah, but they are jealous of you."  (History of Muhammad Ibn Sa'd, Volume I, Pages 188)
  
"...and he is the Prophet of these people; he is an Arab and the Jews are jealous of him wishing that he should have been an Israelite..."  (History of Muhammad Ibn Sa'd, Volume I, Pages 177)

The Dead Sea Scroll was discovered by muslims, making it unacceptable to support islam. It is only in muslims' countries they discover different bibles that approve islam. Who says those were not the handiwork of muslims trying hard to legitimise islam?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

Muhammad never came to confirm the laws of the earlier Scriptures. He came to introduce paganism in the name of worshiping the true God.

Everything the pagans were doing in Mecca before islam was incorporated into islam by allah:

[Quran 2:158 Pickthal] Lo! (the mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to go around them (AS THE PAGAN CUSTOM IS). And he who doeth good of his own accord, (for him) lo! Allah is Responsive, Aware.

How would God prophesy of Muhammad in the bible to return the world to paganism?

Islamic Allah is not the true God and that is why they worship him as they do to idols.

KellamLeTorneau:
Jealous of the Arabs. Their rivalry started out a long time ago. And I'm quite sure the bible spoke of how the kingdom of God will be taken away from the JEWS. And spoke of how it will be given to someone, not one of them, not from amongst them but from their brethren. Of course the promise has been fulfilled, Muhammad is the promise. It was indeed Hajar that was sent away, but that is not of importance, Sarah was the first wife and therefore deserved the utmost respect, the fact that hajar was sent away doesn't mean Abraham doesn't love them or that he abandoned the, as according to you, that is not where the story ends.

Now the story of Isaac and Ishmael in the bible has contradictions, You called Ishmael the son of a bond woman and that he was cast out. Is that anyway to speak of a wife of a prophet?

let us look at Genesis 16:3, “So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 16:3)” Clearly this tells us Abraham (PBUH) Married Hagar.

You blatantly reject this but yet you can't defend it, like I said, JEWS, jealous.

The Bible Genesis 22:2

"Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains".

The Bible Genesis 22:12

"Since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me."

Ishmael the eldest son or Isaac the second son? Christians have placed the name of Isaac in the blank space above. Muslims believe Ishmael was around thirteen years old when Abraham was asked to sacrifice him. In both the above quotations the Lord uses the word your only son. Obviously, the logical answer is that the incident must have taken place before the birth of Isaac, the second son of Abraham. So, what could be the reason that the name of Isaac appears in the blank space, as the only son of Abraham?

So, is it out of tribal rivalry that the descendants of Isaac (Jews) are concealing these facts and depriving the preeminence due to the descendants of Ishmael (Arabs)? In Encyclopaedia Judaica Jerusalem, volume 9, under the heading Ishmael it is written:

"It is related that a renowned traditionalist of Jewish origin, from Qurayza tribe and another Jewish scholar who converted to Islam, told Caliph Omar ibn Abd al-Aziz (717-20) that the Jews were well informed that Ismail (Ishmael) was the one who was bound (sacrificed), but they concealed this out of jealousy.

But you guys say the quran is complete and both man and jinns cannot produce the like of it. If so, why is it that you need all the information about Hajar and Ishmael from the bible? Why didn't the quran talk about them? Is it still complete? In fact, the quran is incomplete without the words of man, Muhammad, which you call hadith.

True, the kingdom of God was taken away from the Pharisees and Saducees who were incharge of priesthood of Judaism and was handed over to the Christian Nation, not the Arab nation.

"But you (i.e the Christians) are a chosen
generation, a royal
PRIESTHOOD, a holy
NATION, His own special
people, that you may
proclaim the praises of
Him who called you out
of darkness into His
marvelous light; who
once were not a people
but are now the people
of God, who had not
obtained mercy but now
have obtained mercy" ( II
Peter 2:9-10 ).

There is no trace of Muhammad in the bible because he was not from the God of the bible. Quran 109:1-6 makes us to know the God Muhammad and muslims serve is not Yahweh, the true God known in the bible.

Besides, the following verses from the bible prove Muhammad was not and could not have been prophesised in the bible:

Philip findeth Nathanael and
saith unto him, We have found
him, of whom MOSES in the law
and the prophets did write, Jesus
of Nazareth, the son of Joseph
(John 1:45).

That is talking about Moses prophecy in the Book of Deuteronomy.

And he (Jesus) said unto them,
These are the words which I
spake unto you while I was yet
with you, that all things must be
fulfilled, which were written in
the law of MOSES and in the
PROPHETS and in PSALMS,
concerning ME (Luke 24:44).
The above passages are a
pointer to the fact that all bible
prophecies by MOSES and other
PROPHETS are referring to Jesus.

Muhammad has no record in the
bible.
Islam is not in God's plan as
Jesus Gospel is God's final
message to the world:

And this GOSPEL of the kingdom
shall be preached in ALL the
WORLD for a witness unto ALL
NATIONS and then SHALL THE
END COME (Mat. 24:14).

God's plan is that it is the
GOSPEL that will be preached till
the end of the world, then who
sent Muhammad to bring islam?