₦airaland Forum

1Corinthians 16:1-4
(1) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
(2) Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
(3) And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
(4) And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.

Above is a portion in the Bible which Olaadegbu and other tithe advocates use to wrongly justify the practice of tithes in the early church.

Below is a portion from a book about tithes and giving which explains the above portion properly:

Though 2 Corinthians 8-9 is the longest exposition concerning New Testament giving, there are in the Scriptures that are addressed to the body of Christ, more passages about this important topic. One of them is in 1 Corinthians 16:1-5. There we read:



“Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem. But if it is fitting that I go also, they will go with me.”



This passage is very similar in character with 2 Corinthians 8-9. Again the collection is for the (poor) saints in Jerusalem.
They are the same recipients as in 2 Corinthians. It appears that the Jerusalem saints were in great need and the Corinthians, the Macedonians and maybe also the Galatians were contributing to help their needs.
The new in this passage is the reference to storing for the poor on the first day of the week. The Greek text translated here as “the first day of the week”, is “on one of the Sabbaths”.
It is used in some occasions in the New Testament but it is not clear to me what it exactly means. Regardless of this, what Paul says here to the Corinthians is that each one should make a kind of a fund for the poor, storing there on a regular basis (“on one of the Sabbaths”) as he may prosper. Notice the rule here: the rule is not the tithe.
It is not “store up your tithes”. It is “store up as you may prosper”. Both poor and rich were supposed to store up, each one as he may prosper i.e. in accordance to their resources.
2 Corinthians takes this further adding the desire, the cheerful, non-grudging giver plus the other elements we saw there. The reason that Paul mentions for the necessity of the regularity of these contributions is, as he says, “that there be no collections when I come”. This is the reason behind doing the contributions on a regular basis.
Would these contributions continue forever, even after Paul came? No, not at least for this purpose. The contributions were for a specific purpose (“to help the poor saints in Jerusalem”) and were done on a regular basis (“on the first day of the week”) so that they would not be done at haste when Paul would come. After Paul had come they would not continue, at least not for this purpose.
But the principle is there, and the principle is that as Christians we should help our poor brothers. This would not be an erratic giving – though this could happen too – but could also be a giving on a more regular basis, based on the needs.
We could be tipped to it from a church planter (like Paul here) or we could also be brought there directly by the Lord (“the rich and the poor meet together; the Lord is the maker of them all” (Proverbs 22:2).


The complete book is here.

The PDF version can be downloaded here.

Adding to what petres_007 has said:

Titus 2:11-15
(11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
(13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(14) Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(15) These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

2Peter 1:1
(1) Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Heb 1:1-14
(1) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
(2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(3) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(4) Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
(5) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
(6) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
(7) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
( But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
(9) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
(10) And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:(11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
(12) And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
(13) But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
(14) Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

These are just some passages that indicate the true fact that Christ is God; the part of the triune God referred to as the Son.

OLAADEGBU:
Blind Guides

"Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!" (Matthew 23:16)

The 23rd chapter of Matthew contains some harsh denunciations as Jesus delivers the eight "woe's." Even the Greek word is a bit eerie; it is pronounced "oo-ah-ee!" Can you imagine this series of stern admonitions delivered to the faces of these self-righteous manipulators of truth? "Oo-ah-ee you scribes and Pharisees and Sadducees, hypocrites!" It must have given chills to everyone there.

The blindness that Jesus was condemning has both a practical and spiritual impact. Obviously, if one does not understand simple truth, the result is going to be either embarrassing or painful. "They be blind leaders of the blind," Jesus said. "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch" (Matthew 15:14).

The great Creator of the universe knows best how to guide His creation. If we, the stewards (Genesis 1:28), do not know or understand the Creator's instructions, we are bound to get into trouble. That "truth blindness" often results in "blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel," (Matthew 23:24).

But the greater blindness is spiritual. Peter listed attributes on how to grow in faith and gain assurance. Then he advised, "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins" (2 Peter 1:9).

In His messages to the seven churches, Jesus warned Laodicea, "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" (Revelation 3:17). His counsel: "Buy of me gold . . . and white raiment . . . and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see" (Revelation 3:18). HMM III

*Sighs and shakes head *

Also, @Olaadegbu,

You keep mentioning Philipians 4:19. Could you do a very honest analysis of what that verse is talking about in the proper context in which it was written so we can see how it aligns with ur belief about tithes?!

OLAADEGBU:
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
-- Matthew 23:23-24

Here we the stamp of Christ's approval of the noble and most rewarding practise of tithing. If it was wrong or questionable, Christ would not have approved of it. Backed by His knowledge of the counsel and mind of God in all matters, tithing inclusive, Jesus said what is quoted above. He did not condemn the Far-to-see for tithing but for their hypocrisy. Now, see the verse 24, you will see the attributes of these Far to see and Sad you see that I was referring to earlier, how they will like to point out the minutest sin which in itself may not be sinful and yet secretly swallow a carmel. That is what I call the Psalm 41:9 mentality. Read up on how these gangs operate in John 12:1-8.

One should note that the practise of tithes and offering was continued in the early church as you can see in the verse below:

"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." -- 1 Cor. 16:2

So, we can see that this pivotal, yet much misunderstood subject enjoys mention in practically every section of the Bible. This is an outstanding proof for all sincere seekers (Philipians 4:19 ) worshippers of God. This is a challenge to those who think that the truth of the Word of God concerning tithe and offering is alien to the New Testament! (Psalms 41:9).

@Olaadegbu,
Matthew 23:23 was not talking about Christ approving tithes for Christianity.
Tithes then were expected to be paid during the period of the law which was in force.
Christ only was telling those people that he expected that they should keep all aspects of the law and not leave others undone.
Tithes were part of the law and were expected to be kept by all during that dispensation/time period. Especialy the pharisees who were supposed to be leaders who lead by example.

The dispensation of the law came to an end after Christ's death on the cross.So, all those requirements went with the law; after its fulfilment.
The fulfilment of the law was complete with Christ's death on the cross.

1 Corinthians 16:2 was a request of Paul to the people/Christians in that place for a specific purpose. it wasn't the laying down of a practice to be continued forever.He made that request of the people to gather their offerings on the first day of a particular week(not every week for life) so that he could have everything ready for him to take to those who needed them.
Tithes were definitely not part of those offerings.All those offerings were offered as the people decided they could ;in varying amounts and percentages,no specific stipulations.

Please be honest in ur analysis of scripture.

JPot:
And yea, I knew that there weren't three of them and that they came a year late. The point is that there is nothing wrong with giving presents, or celebrating. Jesus celebrated all the time, and utilized those opportunities to preach to laymen.

@JPot, I'm not against birthday celebrations.
People who make a deal out of them have a lot of time on their hands.
I was just pointing out something because ur earlier comment seemed to indicate that the wise men were there on the day of Jesus's birth.

JPot:
I laugh at all of your ramblings.

Almost all of the apostles made note of how Jesus came on the earth, and how he was born. We even read that the wise men came and gave PRESENTS to Jesus on his day of birth. They celebrated His birthday.

JPot:
I laugh at all of your ramblings.

Almost all of the apostles made note of how Jesus came on the earth, and how he was born. We even read that the wise men came and gave PRESENTS to Jesus on his day of birth. They celebrated His birthday.

So why is it wrong to celebrate birthdays? Personally I don't know why. I think it is a good occasion to come together with friends and family to be happy about life, sing hymns to God, pray to God, and enjoy life like God made life to be enjoyed. God didn't say THOU SHALT NOT ENJOY LIFE. THOU SHALT NOT CELEBRATE. He made exceptions and listed out sins that shouldn't be committed when "enjoying life", but He never said it was wrong. Neither should we.

Think about it.

If we really check out the story of Jesus' birth, the wise men were not numbered at all and also,they didn't come on the day of Jesus's birth but some time(maybe some days, a year or two)after. Just thought I should point that out.

OLAADEGBU:
Let us list the examples of those who paid tithes in the Bible and see whether we have principles to follow and appreciate.

Abraham (Genesis 14:20; Heb.7:1-11)

Jacob (Gen.28:22)

Levi in Abraham (Heb.7:9)

Hezekiah and Israel (2 Chronicles 31)

Hypocrites (Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; 18:12)

Christians (1 Corinthians 9:7-14; 16:2; 2 Cor. 8:1-15; Gal. 6:6; 1 Tim. 5:17-18; Heb.7)

There is no where in the Bible that mentions a substitute programme for tithing in the New Testament.

Hmmm,,

@Olaadegbu,

majority of your posts on other issues pertaining to Christianity have been ok from my own point of view;and probably others' too.
But this issue of tithes is where I completely disagree with u.

The verses u indicated above as regards Christians were never indicated in the bible to be tithes. Anybody who is sincerely honest with himself/herself will know that those verses were referring to any form of freewill giving;which has no structure or stipulation.
They are offerings that people determined on their own as regards the amount or definition of what to give; which we all know is not in accordance to the rule of tithes.

You might read them to be tithes because u are partial to tithes;u're viewing them with a partial view, not an honest or impartial/objective view.

I wonder why people still use Jacob's scenario of tithes to promote tithe paying.
Jacob said he would pay the tithe only if God did some particular things for him; meaning that if God did not do those things, he wouldn't pay the tithe.
His promise to tithe was based on a condition being fulfilled.
That negates the rule of tithes which we know everywhere.
In the Christian world today, people don't pay tithes because of any condition they give to God; they pay because they feel they are under obligation to do so.

Hebrews 7 was not talking about tithes to validate them in Christian practice, rather it used the issue of tithes to show the superiority of Christ's priesthood to that of Melchizedek. It was never about the tithes.

[quote author=tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4349550#msg4349550 date=1250237824]@Chukwudi and Jagoon,

If you are very sincere with yourself and unbiased in issues of the scriptures, kindly show to me where it was stated in the OT of titheing being a LAW plainly. If you can , then believe me i'll succomb
[/quote]Heb 7:5
(5) And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Christianity is a way of life for Christians.

Abuzola:
If God died, then he is breathless, how on earth can a dead thing perform any single duty ?

Your signature is terrible, you are of how to die ba ? Why not hang yourself or stab yourself

here u are once again with ur "How can God, ?" statements when u've clearly stated that God has the ability to do anything from ur previous reply.

Ur problem is : U view or interprete God's abilities or actions based on the limited human perspective.
U can't explain or rationalise God based on how human beings operate.

Now I understand why u can't and won't get it.

Abuzola:
@recog. GOD power is unlimited

So what's all ur cry about "How can God, ?"

Abuzola,
this question of urs above is highly/heavily unnecessary because the topic of this thread/initial post on this thread has dealt with it.

Why do you have a knack for ferreting over issues that have been dealt with by the provision of information?

[quote author=petres_007 link=topic=301626.msg4252622#msg4252622 date=1248637681]Thanks for the post ttalks!

I know say Abuzola go soon show, [/quote]No sweat Peter .

Well,, as regards Abuzola, he definitely will have his objections. It's programmed that way for him I guess.

As we should know by now, the life in Jesus Christ is the only life that is worth living. We know in that life, we have an assurance of eternity; a hope of salvation. So, the purpose of this article is to point out some things that are required of the life in Christ.



Some people could mistakenly assume that all that is required from a person who has believed in Christ is just that; believing in Christ. They could go on to continue living life in any way they deem fit because they feel they have that assurance of salvation since they believe in Christ.

But believing in Christ means having faith in him and also living a life according to the doctrine which he set down through his apostles. Living this life is made possible only by the grace of God. And living that life helps us to strengthen our faith in God.



2 Peter  1:1-8 says:-



“From Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith that is as valuable as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

May grace and peace be yours in abundance through the full knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord!

His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through the full knowledge of the one who called us by his own glory and excellence.

Through these he has given us his precious and wonderful promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, seeing that you have escaped the corruption that is in the world caused by evil desires.

For this very reason, you must make every effort to supplement your faith with moral character, your moral character with knowledge,

your knowledge with self-control, your self-control with endurance, your endurance with godliness,

your godliness with brotherly kindness, and your brotherly kindness with love. 

For if you possess these qualities, and if they continue to increase among you, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in attaining a full knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.”




The verses above are quite clear and it is pretty obvious from those that I made bold, that our faith in Christ is to be supplemented by those attributes, which if when done, would reflect in our day to day activities and would result in our being effective and productive in our knowledge of Jesus Christ.



We, as Christians, were not called for anything on this earth but unto good works. This much is made clear in the following chapters/verses of scripture:



Ephesians 2:8-10:



“For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God

and not the result of works, lest anyone boast.

For we are his masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared long ago to be our way of life.“


2 Timothy 3:16-17:



” All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

so that the man of God may be complete and thoroughly equipped for every good work.”


Titus 2:14:



“He gave himself for us to set us free from every wrong and to cleanse us so that we could be his special people who are enthusiastic about good works.“




As Christians, our way of life is to be full of good works. In other words, a Christian; a person who has faith in Christ Jesus, is fruitful only when his/her life is full of good works.



A person who claims to have faith in Christ and doesn’t have good works to show for his faith; that person definitely is not a follower of Christ’s doctrine and therefore, does not have faith in Christ.

James 2: 18-26 has something to say about this.



James 2: 18-26:



‘But someone may say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without any works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
You believe that there is one God. That’s fine! Even the demons believe that and tremble with fear.
Do you want proof, you foolish person, that faith without works is worthless? Our ancestor Abraham was justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar, wasn’t he?
You see that his faith was active with his works, and by his works faith was made complete. And so the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” And so he was called God’s friend.
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. Likewise, Rahab the prostitute was justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them away on a different road, wasn’t she?
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.’





Pretty glaring isn’t it? Anyone who claims to be a Christian/born again/child of God, and doesn’t have any good works; and thus no good fruit, for his faith, such a person isn’t a Christian and thus, isn’t saved. The verses above made it clear that even the demons believe in God but that doesn’t make them saved.

That means anybody can believe in God and not be saved due to lack of good works to show that he/she is saved.

Any one that is a child of God bears fruits and these fruits are borne out of good works.

A life in the Spirit, that is; a life in Christ, bears fruit.



Matthew 7:18-20:



“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit. Every tree not producing good fruit will be cut down and thrown into a fire. So by their fruit you will know them.”



John 15:4-5:



“Abide in me, and I will abide in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. The one who abides in me while I abide in him produces much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.”



John 15:8:



“This is how my Father is glorified, when you produce a lot of fruit and prove to be my disciples.”



One might ask, “What is the fruit of living the life in the Spirit which children of God of attain through good works and by which they are identified among every other person?”

The answer is very simple. Once again, God’s word; the bible, gives the answer:



Galatians 5:22-23:



“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things.”


And going further down,



Galatians 5:24-25:



“Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also be guided by the Spirit.”



From all said in this article, it is very obvious what is expected of a life in the Spirit, that is; a life in Christ or a life as a Christian.



One other major point to note is this: Our faith in Christ produces the will to live according to the doctrine of Christ, and therefore live a life that is accompanied with good works that bear fruit.

Also, these good works do not have a part to play in giving us our salvation, but rather they are useful in our walk as Christians,they identify us as Christians, and they help us to develop in character.



To make sure one is always in track in the expectations of this life, we have one source to fall back on, and that is the word of God; the Bible, which is God’s inspired word to us to serve as our guide in our walk with him.



Stay blessed.



NB:   All scripture chapters/verses in this article were quoted from the [b]International Standard Version[/b]of the Bible.

Abuzola,

Incase u do not know, becoming a Christian is not just about a person "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and personal savior".
Becoming a Christian is about believing in Jesus Christ/the gospel of Jesus Christ and then living the life he ordained or set for us to live.

A person can't claim to be a Christian(a rapist for example) and continue with the very same lifestyle he used to live before his supposed conversion.
Doing such would mean he never was saved/never became a christian.

This passage describes such a person:

(Tit 1:15) Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

(Tit 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Jesus Christ saved people so as to enable them to exhibit the following:

(Mat 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Eph 2:10
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2Ti 3:16-17
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Tit 2:14
(14) Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Maybe I'll post one of my old articles(living the life) from a blog of mine so you can understand what is expected of the Christian life.

Abuzola:
Marvellous ! Christians are holier than abraham, if a thief, rapist and murderer accept jesus as his Lord and personal saviour then he is a christian therefore holier than father Abraham, do you see why christianity is a stupid religion, giving an avenue to criminality. Lol i can't stop laughing.

That's just the beauty of the grace of God and also the highlight of your limited understanding.
Our faith(we Christians) is what makes us righteous before God; not our works(which is the case of other religions).
By faith(in Jesus Christ) are we saved.

Galatians 2:16

Concerning paragraph, you said it can also be used for , Hence am right, it means there are different ways of using it. creks

Which is why you cannot make the earlier conclusions you made earlier about paragraphs in the bible. 

Abuzola:
@ttalk, stop fooling yourself, you certainly know that it will be a cause for alarm when you dare proceed to say 'christians are more faithful than Abraham'. You know this thats why you absconded. Hahaha, weak excuse ! Why don't you tell us what a paragraph is and see who is the ignorant one between i and you

Abuzola,

You want it in full detail?

Here goes:

First of all your question "Are Christians holier than Abraham?" is a wrong one in the sense that Abraham is not presently alive so you can't ask a question about him using the present tense.
Rather your question should have been "Do Christians possess a holier state than Abraham did?"

Answer:
Christians possess a holy state which Abraham never had all through his life time and this is due to the fact that the Holy Spirit dwells within Christians.
It is the presence of the Holy Spirit in Christians that provides this Holy State.
The Holy Spirit did not reside in Abraham,so Christians possess a holier state than Abraham(Infact, we can say that Abraham was not Holy since he didn't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).

Now to ur question about Paragraphs:

You cannot limit the meaning or use of paragraphs to highlighting a new point or idea.
Paragraphs are also used to give more or clearer details about points/ideas highlighted in earlier paragraphs; meaning that a number of paragraphs can still be elaborating on one/ the initial paragraph.

Guess that puts paid to ur ignorant assumption.

Abuzola:
@ttalk, don't tell me you are sick thats why you didn't read the last post of the thread BIG CALAMITY CHURCH IS NOT HOLY. You absconded, me abscond ke?

Abuzola,

Is that how you interpreted the situation?
I absconded?

You are really a case study!

But how on earth did you expect me to answer a question which I and others had clearly given you enough answers and information for you to make conclusions on?
I played my part; and so did others. Enough info was provided for u to make conclusions and yet you still kept asking the same question.
You're really funny.

Abuzola:
@peter, in paul's original letters, a comma and full stop is now transformed into verse, anywhere you see a comma or full stop is frequently followed by inscription of verse something, you can confirm my word.


What is the purpose of 'paragraph' ? Paragraph is used when you want to talk on another issue, the paragraph is transformed into chapter in this contemporary bible, you can as well confirm it from your bible

More display of ignorance.

Abuzola,

You might not know it now or believe it as i say it but a whole lot of what you've been saying and concluding highlight the fact that ur use and interpretation of the english language require a major overhaul.

It is playing a major role in the blunders u've been making all over this forum as regards ur conclusions on the message of the bible.
You urself just have to admit that fact as we both know that the last debate we had highlighted the fact that u had a lot of misconceptions about the whole 'church' issue.
You admitted to the misconceptions.
Your fellow muslim brothers should know that u are making a lot of blunders but their bias against Christians/Christianity would not allow them to speak up.

Don't u think the same thing is playing itself out right now?  

The above statement is a very popular one in the Christian world, but the problem is the meaning that has been generally ascribed to it.

The general meaning ascribed to the statement is as follows:



There is a claim that there is a letter of the word (logos) and the Spirit of the word (rhema); meaning that the understanding one gets from reading the words of the scripture is different from a supposed meaning gotten from the Spirit of God.

Also, it isn’t the understanding gotten from the logos that should be applied but that gotten from the rhema.

It is on the basis of this meaning ascribed to the statement that the popular belief among a lot of Christians that a particular verse of scripture can mean different things to different people in different situations is so rampant.



But understanding the word of God properly, such meanings are wrong. Such meanings are gotten when  the verse is being read in isolation and not within the context in which it was written.



Looking at the verse in isolation:



2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV)

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.



Such meanings could easily be gotten from isolated reading of this verse, but let’s look at the verse in it’s proper context:



2 Corinthians 3:2-9 (KJV)

(2)  Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

(3)  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

(4)  And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

(5)  Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

(6)  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

(7)  But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(8 )  How shall not the[b] ministration of the spirit[/b] be rather glorious?

(9)  For if the[b] ministration of condemnation[/b] be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.



2 Corinthians 3:2-9 (ISV)

(2)  You are our letter, written in our hearts and known and read by everyone.

(3)  You are demonstrating that you are Christ’s letter, produced by our service, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

(4)  Such is the confidence that we have in God through Christ.

(5)  By ourselves we are not qualified to claim that anything comes from us. Rather, our credentials come from God,

(6)  who has also qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, which is not written but spiritual, because the written text brings death, but the Spirit gives life.

(7)  Now if the[b] ministry of death[/b] that was inscribed in letters of stone came with such glory that the people of Israel could not gaze on Moses’ face (because the glory was fading away from it),

(8 )  will not the[b] Spirit’s ministry[/b] have even more glory?

(9)  For if the[b] ministry of condemnation[/b] has glory, then the ministry of justification has an overwhelming glory.



2 Corinthians 3:2-9 (CEV)

(2)  But you are our letter, and you are in our hearts for everyone to read and understand.

(3)  You are like a letter written by Christ and delivered by us. But you are not written with pen and ink or on tablets made of stone. You are written in our hearts by the Spirit of the living God.

(4)  We are sure about all this. Christ makes us sure in the very presence of God.

(5)  We don’t have the right to claim that we have done anything on our own. God gives us what it takes to do all that we do.

(6)  He makes us worthy to be the servants of his new agreement that comes from the Holy Spirit and not from a written Law. After all, the Law brings death, but the Spirit brings life.
(7)  The[b] Law of Moses[/b] brought only the promise of death, even though it was carved on stones and given in a wonderful way. Still the Law made Moses’ face shine so brightly that the people of Israel could not look at it, even though it was a fading glory.

(8 )  So won’t the agreement that the Spirit brings to us be even more wonderful?

(9)  If something that brings the death sentence is glorious, won’t something that makes us acceptable to God be even more glorious?





We can see clearly from the verses above displayed in three different translations of the bible that the statement saying: “…the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life.” simply means that the old testament/covenant (the letter) kills while the new testament/covenant (the Spirit) gives life.

This can be seen through the verses that follow the verse where the statement was made (although it is already clear in verse 6 in the Contemporary English Version). This is because the verses following the verse in question further elaborate on the statement in it.

In verse 7, the letter was referred to as ministration of death/ministry of death/law of Moses.

In verse 8, the Spirit; which refers to the new testament in this context, is referred to as ministration of the Spirit/Spirit’s ministry/agreement that the Spirit brings to us.

In verse 9, the letter was referred to as ministration of condemnation/ministry of condemnation/something that brings the death sentence, while the Spirit was referred to as ministration of righteousness/ministry of justification/something that makes us acceptable to God.



These points gathered from the verses show that the letter is in reference to the law/old testament and the Spirit is in reference to the new testament. 

From the explanations given, the conclusion is that the word of God is to be understood as it is written. The only meaning to be gotten from it is that which comes from what is seen in the bible. The words written in the bible; particularly the new testament, are what are needed for a Christian to live by. We do not need any further enlightenment by any “spirit” on what has been presented to us in the bible.

The scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit, so it is only sensible to say that when you read them, you are reading what the Spirit has said.



John 6:63 (KJV)

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)

(16)  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

(17)  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

macIB:
Probably maybe, just maybe; but the ability to discern good from evil is not a function of being a christian or unbeliever. The God of Abraham, Jacob, Moses (who were all Jews and not Christians) during creation breath into us His Spirit (which I know to be the Holy spirit). It is now up to us as human beings to listen to this spirit of God in us or ignore it. God gave us the free will to be whatever we want. So therefore, to sin or not is not a function of being an unbeliever or a Christian, but a function of listening to the Spirit of God within us, the Spirit God gave us all (black, white, yellow, half-cast, Nigerians, Europeans, Ameriacans, Caribbeans, Asians, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Christians, Muslims, traditionalist,, etc) during creation.

(Rom 3:10)  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

(Rom 3:11)  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

(Rom 3:12)  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This was the state of people before Christ came and the state of those without Christ currently.

The Holy Spirit never resided in any person before Christ came.The breath of life from God to Adam was just that; the breath of life and not the Holy spirit residing in him.
The holy Spirit only came upon a few indidviduals once in a while in the old days for specific purposes but never resided in them.
Without Christ, u don't have the Holy Spirit. Simple!

(Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

(Eph 1:14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Doing all the good in this world without Christ doesn't make anyone right or acceptable before God.Such people;no matter the good they do or live,without Christ,are still in sin.
That's not my opinion but what God's opinion states.

(Rom 3:20)  God doesn't accept people simply because they obey the Law. No, indeed! All the Law does is to point out our sin.

(Rom 3:21)  Now we see how God does make us acceptable to him. The Law and the Prophets tell how we become acceptable, and it isn't by obeying the Law of Moses.

(Rom 3:22)  God treats everyone alike. He accepts people only because they have faith in Jesus Christ.

(Rom 3:23)  All of us have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.

(Rom 3:24)  But God treats us much better than we deserve, and because of Christ Jesus, he freely accepts us and sets us free from our sins.

(Rom 3:25)  God sent Christ to be our sacrifice. Christ offered his life's blood, so that by faith in him we could come to God. And God did this to show that in the past he was right to be patient and forgive sinners. This also shows that God is right when he accepts people who have faith in Jesus.

macIB:
I see your point, but DO NOT AGREE with it though! you do not need to be a christian to be free from the tendency to sin. The best person I have met in my life is a Sikh and the worst person I have met in my life is a christian who attends a "living church", how about that!

Most probably, that "christian" is not a Christian but a very probable church-goer.

Chrisbenogor:
Do you ever post your own opinions?

I guess he shares the same opinion as the owner of the article.Nothing wrong there as long as he cites his source.

Chrisbenogor:
How about you do something wrong without knowing it?

Well, as a Christian, when we do something wrong or sin, our conciences judge us.This is due to the holy Spirit within.
So i guess it's quite unlikely to sin without knowing it.

But if that does become the case, we can still seek forgiveness of all known and unknown sins when we pray.

macIB:
@poster

An unbeliever has no choice; he would always give in to the promptings of sin because he is completely controlled by his sinful nature which is embedded in his flesh.


Do you mind explaining further this your quote, because I can point to numerous "unbelievers" and they are better in behavior and morals than 'christians" I know around me and in the public generally.

The unbelievers being better in morals and behaviour than 'christians' does not mean they are free from the clutches of sin. they still sin one way or the other.it's just a function of the human nature.
The Christian possesses a nature that enables him to be able to overcome the normal human  tendency to sin.

You know, what u might see in public doesn't guarantee that it's all rosy in private.

Chrisbenogor:
Ok so the only time is just as soon as you finish praying right?

No, between that time and the next sin.  

Sin is no longer a major issue in a Christian's life as regards getting forgiveness for it. That has been done by Christ.
But, when a Christian still falls into the petty clutches of daily/regular sin, there is a bite to the conscience which can only be relieved by tapping into the grace provided by God through Christ which provides forgiveness of sins.
This is achieved by genuine repentance of the act which is regarded as sin.

That would be when the sins have been forgiven and thereby wiped off. 

 

When a person believes on Jesus Christ and what he did and what he is yet to do, the person becomes saved. He gets his sins washed away and forgiven.

Jesus Christ has paid the price for his sins so the person does not have to pay the ultimate price of sin which is death.

His old and sinful nature is changed and he gets a new nature.



Look at what  1 John 3:1-10 says:



1 John 3:1-10

(1)  Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

(2)  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

(3)  And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

(4)  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

(5)  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

(6)  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

(7)  Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

(8 )  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

(9)  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

(10)  In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Now, we see what the bible says about those who are born of God. So, does it mean from what was specifically mentioned in verse 9 of the above chapter that a Christian is perfect and not prone to sin?

Of course not!!

Christians are people who are striving towards perfection; they are not yet perfect. Perfection is only attained when it is no longer possible for them to sin anymore and that is only when Christ shall come the second time.

But for now that Christ is yet to come, the sinful nature which is embedded in human flesh will always continue to war with the new nature that is of Christ within the Christian.

That is why Christians are prone to fall into sin once in a while. This is expressly communicated by apostle Paul in:



Romans 7:14-25

(14)  For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am mere flesh, sold as a slave to sin.

(15)  I don’t understand what I am doing. For I don’t do what I want to do, but instead do what I hate.

(16)  Now if I do what I don’t want to do, I agree that the law is good.

(17)  As it is, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.

(18)  For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but I cannot carry it out.

(19)  For I don’t do the good I want to do, but instead do the evil that I don’t want to do.

(20)  But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.

(21)  So I find this to be a law: when I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me.

(22)  For I delight in the law of God in my inner being,

(23)  but I see in my body a different law waging war with the law in my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin that exists in my body.
(24)  What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

(25)  Thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.



As long as we inhabit this human flesh, we will always war with the sinful nature imbedded in it. But the difference between the Christian and the unsaved person is that, the Christian now possesses the nature to do the things of God and that provides him with a choice to either accept the prompting of the sinful nature or to overcome them with the nature of Christ within.



Therefore, this is to show that the statement saying, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” does not mean a Christian is not prone to sin, but it means that a Christian does not live a life of continual sin or continue a life of sin habitually.

It means that a Christian would definitely make effort not to give in to sin’s demands. It means that a Christian will live a different life from that when he was not yet saved. It means that sin will not habitually be a part of his life like before.

It means that if sin does find its way one way or the other into his life, he would be convicted by his conscience(through the Holy Spirit), he would be grieved in his spirit, he would be remorseful. And he would make effort to repent of that sin and be forgiven by God.

A Christian possesses the ability to either choose to give in to sin or to resist the promptings of sin because of his new nature.

An unbeliever has no choice; he would always give in to the promptings of sin because he is completely controlled by his sinful nature which is embedded in his flesh.

A Christian will always want to obey the instructions of the word of God and that would make him curtail his desire to sin. That is why it was stated in Romans 12:1-2 that:



Romans 12:1-2

(1)  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(2)  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.



By renewing his mind with the word of God constantly, the Christian is able to build stronger resolve against the promptings of sin. With this as a constant practice in the life of the Christian, resisting sin will become very easy ; thereby cutting down the occasion of falling into sin into a very bare minimum.



Also, it is also worthy to note that even if the Christian does fall into sin; which is supposed to be a rare occurrence, he has the assurance of having that sin forgiven and wiped out by God when he repents and asks God for forgiveness. But this is not an excuse to practice sin willfully;…… Romans 6:1-23 has enough information on this.



Now another point to note is this:

If a person claims to be a Christian and sin is a constant and habitual feature in his life, it is very possible that that person is not saved and is not a Christian;…, 1 John 3:6, 8, and 9. Jesus Christ said that a Christian would be known by his fruits. The fruits of a Christian are the fruits of the Holy Spirit and sin is not one of them.



Stay blessed in Christ.