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TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 11:07pm On Oct 27, 2020
Moksylov:
Just reading this thread and I must say you all are doing the lord’s work smiley please see below my details. I look forward to your prompt responses thank you

Age 32
English test result 8 8 7.5, 7
Educational qualifications with dates awarded Bsc(LASU) Computer Science(2012), MBA Business School of Netherlands (2020)
Job title(s) Digital Marketing analyst
Years of experience 8

My wife’s
Age 26
English test result 8, 9, 7.5, 7
Educational qualifications with dates awarded Bsc Babcock University (Accounting) (2014), ICAN
Job title(s) Big four external auditor
Years of experience 3
All marketing occupations are level 1 which means your degree from Lasu cannot assess them. Now that you have an MBA, all your 8 years experience will not be approved so you are gonna lose experience point.
In addition, Vetassess requires at least 1 year experience for assessment which you do not have as your recent degree is 2020.

Your spouse is also in an occupation not being nominated for candidates offshore.
My advice, check the occupation list to see if there is any occupation you can nominate.

If your spouse can also get an internal redeployment or keep applying to big fours in Australia, she may be lucky.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:53pm On Oct 25, 2020
zeb04:
Hello guys, i checked the Requirements for IVF embryologist and found out that i have to write an exam to qualify me to practice as an embryologist in Australia.( although i have a bsc in Biochemistry, i am a trained embryologist)

You are only exempted if you

1) have a Masters degree in Embryology

2) have a working experience of more than 2years.


However, i sent a mail, informing them that i just srarted my masters program and i have a 5years working experience and i am alao accredited by American Society of Reproductive medicine, having written the board exams, i hope this exempts me from writing the exams.

Pls is there any other way, i am not a hair dresser or bricklayer or stuff, because i know you guys don’t have to write exams.

I really cannot pay for Assessment fee, and also pay to write exams and flight fee ( to South Africa)and all that. @ bellong
Since you have sent them an email, wait for their response. I'm positive they will give you a response.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:51pm On Oct 25, 2020
osv4real:
Good day everyone. Can one still apply for a visa? i thought everything was placed on hold due to the covid-19 pandemic?
Australia has over 66 visa subclass and to be clear, visa application is not on hold. Granting of visa especially for offshore is however slow but not stopped.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:49pm On Oct 25, 2020
engrola00001:
Hallo,

Please I need a candid advise, I am planning to apply to Australia PR next year.

Here's my bio:
Age: 33
Ielts: not done
Single
Bsc: (Civil Engineering 2015 at University of Ilorin)
I am currently running my master program in Germany.
I came to Germany in 2019.

I cannot really proof my work experience because no official documents to proof, I worked mostly on short term contract and private projects after my nysc 2016 to 2019. before I left Nigeria.

The question is
1. How do I go about verifying my degree Certificate and Work experience to get a positive outcome?
2. What are my chances?
First, without work experience documentation, it will be difficult cos you need as many points as possible due to your age.
If you are able to get employment contracts, payslips, or bank statement for salary received during those periods, you may assess with Vetassess.
Otherwise, you can assess your degree only as a Civil Engineering graduate with EA.
You will only get point for educational qualification and no work experience point.

Visit Engineers Australia website and read about their requirements for Assessment.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:45pm On Oct 25, 2020
Audio3:
Hi Everyone,

been reading through the thread and for some reason I still found it confusing.

So, myself and my hubby are looking to relocate and i decided to try Australia. Please what are our chances.

Age: 31 years
English test result: LSRW, 7.5,7.5,8, 7
Educational qualification: BSC Pharmaceutical science(2010) and Msc Pharmacology(2014) - From University of Hertfordshire
Job title(s): Occupational Health Officer and Human Resource manager
Years of experience: Over 5 years

Spouse's details
Age: 33 years
English test result: LSRW, 7.5,7,9,8
Educational qualification: Bsc Electronic Engineering (2014) - From University of Hull
Job title(s): Facility Manager at a plaza in Lagos.
Years of experience: Over 3 years

Problem here is he is usually paid in cash and the rest is history, doesn't have tax, but i have proof of all.

Thanks in advance.
You may stand a better chance then.

Check the occupation list to see the occupation you can nominate.
Visit www.anzscosearch.com
You may need to register on the website to view the details below
On the top middle page click "Lists" (on a laptop/computer) or click the Hamburger sign (3 horizontal lines) to select "Lists" if you are using a mobile device
Go through the 3 lists MLTSSL, STSOL and ROL
Click any of the occupations that best relate to what you do.
When you click the occupation, scroll down to 'Anzsco code' and scroll to 'Tasks'
Check if the tasks relate to the occupation you have selected.
Revert here with occupation(s) you deem relate to what you do and we will take it up from there
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:42pm On Oct 25, 2020
giftwalter:
Hi guys,

Kindly help me cause I am confused on how to go about this PR thing.

Here's my bio:
Age: 29
Ielts: not done
Single
Bsc almost done at open university of Nigeria
A video producer with 8 years experience, have 5 years salary statement and tax


Do I stand a chance?
I will say you don't stand a chance.
First, you don't have a degree yet.
Second, your degree will be evaluated as an Associate degree and as such won't be able to assess for Video producer which requires a Bachelor's degree from any Tier 1 universities.

Check through the occupation lists to see if there is any other occupation you can nominate.
Visit www.anzscosearch.com
You may need to register on the website to view the details below
On the top middle page click "Lists" (on a laptop/computer) or click the Hamburger sign (3 horizontal lines) to select "Lists" if you are using a mobile device
Go through the 3 lists MLTSSL, STSOL and ROL
Click any of the occupations that best relate to what you do.
When you click the occupation, scroll down to 'Anzsco code' and scroll to 'Tasks'
Check if the tasks relate to the occupation you have selected.
Revert here with occupation(s) you deem relate to what you do and we will take it up from there
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:38pm On Oct 25, 2020
Adekoolz:
Good evening guys, I just stumbled on this thread after an immigration lawyer charged me 3000 AUD for the PR processing...

I don't know if there is a whatsapp group for this process that I can join to learn more.

Bio:
Age:27
Ielts: 8,8,7,7 (LRSW)
Single
Qualification: BSc computer science (Babcock Uni 2013).
Work experience: 5 years plus ( I worked as a Quality Assurance Engineer and currently as an IT project manager)
How do I evaluate my skills to get optima points for both roles? would appreciate any advise.

Thanks
First, you can only assess for 1 occupation at a time. So if you have two different roles, you can't claim them together. You will also need to dedicate some time in going through this thread especially the first few pages to understand more.
Check the occupation list to see the occupation you can nominate.
Visit www.anzscosearch.com
On the top middle page click "Lists" (on a laptop/computer) or click the Hamburger sign (3 horizontal lines) to select "Lists" if you are using a mobile device
Go through the 3 lists MLTSSL, STSOL and ROL
Click any of the occupations that best relate to what you do.
When you click the occupation, scroll down to 'Anzsco code' and scroll to 'Tasks'
Check if the tasks relate to the occupation you have selected.
Revert here with occupation(s) you deem relate to what you do and we will take it up from there
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:36pm On Oct 25, 2020
Rosunkeye:
Good morning my ogas,
Main applicant is my wife.
Wife’s ielts: 8,8,8,8
Bsc: tourism and event management
Year or graduation: 2012
Working since as an event planner till date
The only occupation on the list that suits this is conference and event management.
Which requires AQF- associate degree.
Nomination state: NORTHERN TERRITORY
My question is does Northern Territory nominates candidate as such?
Pls I need to make decision before I proceed with skill assessments.
Thanks @bellong and my other ogas
State nominations are currently suspended including NT.
NT nominates people however it has a longer processing time from 6-8 months.
The choice is yours if you want to wait for state nomination list before assessing or you want to get everything ready and be prepared for nomination as soon as the states release their list.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:32pm On Oct 25, 2020
ganie:
Good morning! This is my profile,I would appreciate your informed contribution to my chances.

Age: 29

Degree: Banking and finance (2016)

Marital status: Single

Job Status: Employed (Logistics manager) 2years till date.
Check the occupation list to see the occupation you can nominate.
Visit www.anzscosearch.com
On the top middle page click "Lists" (on a laptop/computer) or click the Hamburger sign (3 horizontal lines) to select "Lists" if you are using a mobile device
Go through the 3 lists MLTSSL, STSOL and ROL
Click any of the occupations that best relate to what you do.
When you click the occupation, scroll down to 'Anzsco code' and scroll to 'Tasks'
Check if the tasks relate to the occupation you have selected.
Revert here with occupation(s) you deem relate to what you do and we will take it up from there
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:31pm On Oct 25, 2020
Tochyks:
Greetings all, been following this thread for some time now and are interested in traveling to Australia. Please I'd appreciate if any informed person can tell me my chances with the below:

First Degree - Fisheries and Aquaculture

1 year work experience (NYSC) - Maths Teacher

Almost 4 years work experience - Sales Support Admin (FMCG) - current job

Age - early thirties
Lol...what's early thirties? You aren't ready yet.

Check the occupation list to see the occupation you can nominate.
Visit www.anzscosearch.com
On the top middle page click "Lists" (on a laptop/computer) or click the Hamburger sign (3 horizontal lines) to select "Lists" if you are using a mobile device
Go through the 3 lists MLTSSL, STSOL and ROL
Click any of the occupations that best relate to what you do.
When you click the occupation, scroll down to 'Anzsco code' and scroll to 'Tasks'
Check if the tasks relate to the occupation you have selected.
Revert here with occupation(s) you deem relate to what you do and we will take it up from there
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:30pm On Oct 25, 2020
Mablove:
Good evening everyone, I am glad to have stumbled on this thread.

I want to travel to Australia with my family.

I am 40years
I read Estate Management
I have over 10years experience in doing the same job.
I am married with 3 kids.
What do I need to do?
What's your spouse's profile?
For the 10 years, do you have:
Payslips
Bank statement
Pension statement
Tax statement
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:28pm On Oct 25, 2020
taiwoplatinum:
It's a 4 year course. I'm not sure if my first employer was remitting tax. I only have bank statements to show I received salaries. I'm sure of 3 years tax remittal in my present employment.
Good. Photographer is a level 2 occupation which means you can assess with your degree. I'm not an assessor but with the right reference letter and job descriptions from the two companies, you should be able to get a positive assessment. Just make sure the on descriptions are related to a photographer role.
Visit Vetassess website to start gathering your document
You will need payslips and all employment documents to go thru the process.
If you need help, don't hesitate to post it here
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:22pm On Oct 25, 2020
laivwire:
Pls House, what address will I put on the statement of service to VETASSESS?
The address is on Vetassess website na.
https://www.vetassess.com.au/skills-assessment-for-migration/professional-occupations/apply-or-track-application

VETASSESS
Skills Recognition - General Occupations
Level 5, 478 Albert Street
East Melbourne VIC 3002
Australia
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:19pm On Oct 25, 2020
kedaluv:
Good evening everyone, kindly confirm the first steps is to do the ACS assessment. See profile below:

Age: 33 years
English test result: LSRW, 8,7.5,8, 7
Educational qualification: B.Tech Agric Economics (2010)
Job title(s): Relationship Officer
Years of experience: Over 6 years

Spouse's details
Age: 39 years
English test result: LSRW, 8,8,7, 6.5
Educational qualification: B.Tech Civil Engineering (2008)
Job title(s): Project Engineer
Years of experience: Over 10 years
First, your occupation is not on the occupation list.
Your spouse may get an occupation on the list but the English test has to be written again. What month is your spouse going to be 40 as the age point is going to drop by then?
You and your spouse need to check the list to see the occupation your spouse can nominate.
Visit www.anzscosearch.com
On the top middle page click "Lists" (on a laptop/computer) or click the Hamburger sign (3 horizontal lines) to select "Lists" if you are using a mobile device
Go through the 3 lists MLTSSL, STSOL and ROL
Click any of the occupations that best relate to what you do.
When you click the occupation, scroll down to 'Anzsco code' and scroll to 'Tasks'
Check if the tasks relate to the occupation you have selected.
Revert here with occupation(s) you deem relate to what you do and we will take it up from there

Check engineer and engineering technician roles as well
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:13pm On Oct 25, 2020
theodorahc:
Good evening Seniors, kindly confirm if the first steps is to do the ACS assessment. See profile for my brother below:

Age: 36 years
English test result: LSRW, 8,7,7,7
Educational qualifications with dates awarded: BSc Computer Science (2008), MSC Computer Science Ife(2014)
Awarding University(ies): MAdonna University(BSC), University of Ife(Msc)
Course of study: Computer Science
Job title(s): Database Administrator and Core Application Support
Years of experience: Over 8 years
If you are married, provide your spouse's details in the same order as above: Status Single
ANZSCO: 262111 Database Administrator

@toastadeola Please kindly assist
You can assess with ACS for that occupation, however your years of experience may be reduced due to the first degree from Madonna. Also, 262111 is another occupation less nominated.
Your other option is assessing as an ICT customer support officer or hardware technician with TRA which are mostly being nominated in the past 2 financial years.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:09pm On Oct 25, 2020
emandman:
Hello people, attached is a screenshot for occupation ceiling for 2020/2021.
But I can't find finance manger there,which is supposed to be my anzcode job
Could it mean it's not accepted for the year?
It could mean it's not updated.
Finance manager occupation is also a competitive one.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 1:46pm On Oct 19, 2020
gunzziethefirst:
Relationship officer. Also I wanted to ask, does the visa fee apply for my family members as well or I have to pay separately for each of us. Family of 4 with 2 kids
relationship officer is not available on the occupation list.
What's your spouse's profile perhaps it could be a better match for the skilled migration?

Visa fee is per person. In your case
You - A$4045
Spouse - A$2025
Children (2) - A$1015 per child under 18 years
Total is $8100
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 12:37am On Oct 18, 2020
taiwoplatinum:
I finished from Federal University of Agriculture Abeokuta. BSc Computer Science. I only have Tax payments for 5 years. The first 2 years were hand paid.
Was it a 4 or 5 year course?
Good you have tax payment. Your tax clearance certificates should help.
Do you have payslips, bank statement ?
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 6:08am On Oct 17, 2020
ybahrbz91:
Good evening house.
I am a Physiotherapist.
Congratulations
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m):
taiwoplatinum:
Hi! Everyone.

I want to try his Aussie PR. I have a bachelor's degree in computer science (2012). I will be 30 in Nov. I have been doing photography since 2013. I have worked in 2 companies and presently working in 1. All the 7 years of experience has been in photography. IELTS: L 7.5, R 8.5, W 7.0, S 7.0. I read earlier that your degree has to be
In line with your years of experience. I want to migrate as a photographer. What do you think are my chances in the visa subclass 190 with all I listed above?

Looking forward my seniors suggestion on this Aussie PR. Thanks
Which university did you graduate from. That's like the most determinant now?
Do you have salary account statement?
Pension or tax for the 7 years?
TravelRe: Nigerian Students In Australia: Survival Tips!! by tunlex01(m):
iscbaba:
Hi guys my brother contacted an agent in Ibadan for work visa in Australia....he was asked to pay 1.5m but half will initially be paid but after the Visa is out he can balance plus the letter of appointment will be sent to him b4 he leaves Nigeria,office keeper or cleaner job...I hop someone is not trying to scam us.
obviously it is.
Ask the agent what visa subclass you are getting
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 1:47pm On Oct 15, 2020
maintainG:
Hello guys, I'm new here.
I have been following this thread as a guest for a while now.
Please is there a format for Statement of service. I want to apply to Vetassess for assessment but my HR want me to give them a format, or they will use the organisation's format which doesn't specify my roles and responsibility.

Kindly help me guys

Thank you
there is a sample here

https://www.nairaland.com/4478747/diy-guide-australian-permanent-resident/224#86250254
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 9:48pm On Oct 13, 2020
babajava:
@tunlex, @bellong & other gurus: pls respond to the extra year issue I asked in my earlier post: cos all efforts get the comprehensive transcript (including the extra year) keeps hitting a brick wall.

I also think with my Fleet manager positive assessment, I can't apply for 190/491 so thinking of doing another assessment as Transport coy manager to boost my chances...

Does it mean that if wife's assessment comes out positive for ICT customer support officer, and she being the PA, my own assessment ( Fleet Manager) is enough?

Just trying to get everything ready
Transport company manager requires you to be managing a transport company not managing fleet of cars.

If TRA Assessment is positive your assessment as fleet manager does not have any bearing as it's not on the 3 main Occupation list. She also cannot claim assessment points from you
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 9:44pm On Oct 13, 2020
babajava:
Kudos to everyone....

Just got a positive assessment from VETASSESS for Fleet Manager after I was assessed negatively for Transport Company manager last year. Adupe f'olorun.

Now wifey wants to get assessed by TRA for ICT Customer Support Officer:

She has 6yrs working experience as an ICT support officer
BSc computer science - unilag

The challenge - she had an extra year but has transcript for just 4yrs, as unilag stopped issuing transcript to students in an spill-over year. Can she use the 4-year transcript? As TRA doesn't gets transcripts from the institution.

She'll be the primary applicant if all goes well... Cos Fleet Manager isn't on 190/491.
I'll appreciate any advice to utilise my own positive assessment.
Thanks
Congratulations on your positive assessment but I was wondering why you assessed for that Occupation in this first place as it's not available for 189, 190 or 491

She can upload the 4 year transcript she has and her certificate. TRA will verify with the university.

I don't think there is any way your FM result can be used for the skilled migration.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 5:21am On Oct 11, 2020
lma4real:
@ Oga Bellong and others...I was filling my form tra form as apprehentice dressmaker...there was a part asking for qualification...Although i have trade test; this was not the qualification from my boss...so im kind of confuse...As an apprentice, no qualification is given after graduation except certificate...please help a brother out...thanks
Add apprentice certificate as well as the trade test certificates
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 5:20am On Oct 11, 2020
Codedboy95:
Hello guys, I just stumbled on this thread, I have been reading and I have some questions, I studied animal production and health services but I don't any work experience in this field ( I'm actually a software developer). On the job list I found "meat inspector" (which I feel is closely related to my course of study) for visa category 190, 491. Is there any possibility I get a positive skill assessment from VETASSESS even without work experience?
We are obviously not Vetassess assessor here but can only give a guide. Vetassess requires at least 1 year paid work experience with evidence in the occupation you are nominating before a positive assessment can be given. Your Animal production degree should be related.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 5:17am On Oct 11, 2020
gunzziethefirst:
Please I need guidance on starting this journey. I studied human Resource management for my B.SC but I have been doing banking for 9 years. How do I go Start the immigration process please.
What is/are your job title(s) in the banking industry?
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 5:10am On Oct 11, 2020
lowsugar:
I'm 37 years old, worked for 13 years as an Administrative officer with a federal institution, got my degree in Primary education in 2020 from NOUN with no experience in teaching except my one year teaching practice. divorced with a daughter. What are my chances or should I go through study route ( masters)?.
First, Admin role is not on the list.
With your primary education degree, you can check AITSL website for the requirements for assessing as a Primary school teacher. One of it is IELTS Academic with 7.0 in Reading and writing and 8.0 in Speaking and Listening. Others include a 45 day teaching practice in a primary school.

You stand a good chance if you are able to get a positive assessment from AITSL
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 11:10am On Oct 07, 2020
Informanta:
I have gone through the application list accordingly here are the occupations that relate to what I currently do,

233915: Environmental Engineer MLTSSL list

233111: Chemical Engineer. MLTSSL list (EA accessing body)

139912: Environmental Manager. MLTSSL list. (VETASSESS )

133512: Production Manager (Manufacturing) STSOL list. (VETASSESS )
With EA, you will need a well written CDR document. Also, pension or tax clearance documents for the 4 years is mandatory for EA now.

For Vetassess, if you aren't a manager, don't even bother with to assess with them except you are able to prove your managerial role.
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 7:38am On Oct 04, 2020
Informanta:
Thank you for your response

Age: 30yrs
English test result. : Not yet written
Educational qualifications with dates awarded: Bachelors degree
2013
Awarding University(ies): Federal University
Course of study : Chemical Engineering
Job title(s) : Private firm Environmental Consultant
Years of experience 4years
Married

Wife details
Age: 25yrs
English test result. : Not yet written
Educational qualifications with dates awarded: BSC currently in view

Awarding University(ies): Federal University
Course of study :
Job title(s) : Business inclined
Married
Check the occupation list to see the occupation you can nominate.
Visit www.anzscosearch.com
On the top middle page click "Lists" (on a laptop/computer) or click the Hamburger sign (3 horizontal lines) to select "Lists" if you are using a mobile device
Go through the 3 lists MLTSSL, STSOL and ROL
Click any of the occupations that best relate to what you do.
When you click the occupation, scroll down to 'Anzsco code' and scroll to 'Tasks'
Check if the tasks relate to the occupation you have selected.
Revert here with occupation(s) you deem relate to what you do and we will take it up from there
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 10:21am On Oct 01, 2020
emandman:
Good day,
Please in getting assessed by CPA Australia. Can I scan all the original copy of transcript by myself or the school has to send to them.
Secondly, do Nigerian schools give complete syllabus as required by CPA?
You can scan and upload high quality documents including transcript on the website.
Yes, Nigerian universities issue syllabus. Liaise with your department.
"If you are unable to obtain the official syllabus, we will accept a statutory declaration stating the reason for its non-availability and a detailed, personal summary of the relevant subjects. Ensure the statutory declaration is witnessed by a Justice of the Peace or notary officer."
TravelRe: DIY Guide To Australian Permanent Resident Visa - Part 2 by tunlex01(m): 2:22pm On Sep 29, 2020
JayMaine:
Thanks Tunlex01 embarassed
I got so confused and worried I went reading again. That ABU can't assess as level 1 is so heartbreaking but ... we move.

So I should check for a level 2 job for my experience right? I am afraid I didn't find any. If there is a link for level 2 or tier 2 universities and kinds of jobs graduates fron there can assess positively as, please be kind and share.

Worried candidate
Those are the only 3 lists. MLTSSL, STSOL and ROL lists

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