₦airaland Forum

asuustrike2009:
Yes I know many of them

can you please invite those catholics who told you they worship images to nairaland?

johnw74:
nothing is out of context, carm org quote:




14. We are then, it will be seen, very far from attributing to the Mother of God a productive power of grace - a power which belongs to God alone. Yet, since Mary carries it over all in holiness and union with Jesus Christ, and has been associated by Jesus Christ in the work of redemption, she merits for us de congruo, in the language of theologians, what Jesus Christ merits for us de condigno, and she is the supreme Minister of the distribution of graces. Jesus "sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high" (Hebrews i. b.). Mary sitteth at the right hand of her Son - a refuge so secure and a help so trusty against all dangers that we have nothing to fear or to despair of under her guidance, her patronage, her protection. (Pius IX. in Bull Ineffabilis).

roman catholicism has both Jesus and mary sitting on the right hand of the majesty on high
and Hebrews was quoted as reference

hebrews has only Jesus sitting on the right hand of the majesty on high, and not mary

You cant even admit when you are wrong, it shows you arent even sincere.


Carm lied that the pope says Mary sins at the right hand of the majesty on high whereas the pope clearly says Jesus sits on the right hand of the majesty on high while Mary sits at Jesus right hand.


Is that the same thing Or you guys just enjoy lying about the catholic Church.

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus says to you: Let My people go!

Jesus says: feed my sheep.

johnw74:
some more for u on Mary, emman


Summary of Roman Catholic Teachings about Mary


Mary holds a very high position in the Roman Catholic Church, so much so that she is like a goddess. Even though Roman Catholics will not agree with the statement of goddess-like abilities, the fact remains that Mary is highly exalted.

According to Roman Catholicism, Mary is "the all-holy ever-virgin Mother of God" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, hereafter referred to as "CCC" 721), the "Queen over all things" (CCC 966), our "Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix" (CCC 969), who is "full of grace" (CCC 722), the "Mother of God and our mother" (CCC 2677), the "new Eve" (CCC 726), and the "seat of wisdom" (CCC 721). She had no original sin (CCC 508), and never committed sin (CCC 493). She is second only to her Son" (Vatican II, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, par. 66) and sits "on the right hand of the majesty on high" (Pope Pius X, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, 14). In fact, "no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother" (Pope Leo 13th, Octobri Mense). It was Mary who "crushed the poisonous head of the most cruel serpent and brought salvation to the world" (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus). It is she who "delivers our souls from death" (CCC 966), and "continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation" (CCC 969). "Mary, by her spiritual entering into the sacrifice of her divine son for men, made atonement for the sins of man," (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma4, Ott, page 213). Therefore, we can "entrust all our cares and petitions to her" (CCC 2677), "give ourselves over to her now" (CCC 2677), "pray to her" (CCC 2679), and have devotion to her (CCC 971). She was "taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven" (CCC 974). When speaking of the Church, "we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary," (CCC 972). In her, the church is holy (CCC 867). "Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity" (CCC 967). Finally, in paradise the church gathers "around Jesus and Mary" (CCC 1053).
The Bible says,

"Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to exceed what is written, in order that no one of you might become arrogant in behalf of one against the other." (1 Cor. 4:6).

Has the Roman Catholic Church exceeded the scope of scripture with its teaching about Mary? Absolutely, yes!

by Matt Slick
Summary of Roman Catholic Teachings about Mary

why not read what the catholic Church teach from the catholic Church? Is it with to read about toyota cars from innoson?

lonikit:
tnx, but my question is still hanging in the air. all u just did was all about the importance of confession from Catholic perspective.

my question is must we confess to priest? can we just confess to God maybe in our room or in the church
if we confess to God and not the priest, will the sin not be forgiven?. these are my ques

must we be baptised?
Will someone who accept Jesus but will not be baptised receive the promises God made about baptism? Maybe , maybe not.


But this much i know. The ordinary means of justification on the new testament Church is repent believe and be baptised, the ordinary means of forgiveness of SERIOUS sins is confession.
As many who do this receive grace as promised, if you are knowingly dodging them and hoping to receive same grace, that is God's business to decide.

brocab:
People just need to find history Uben-History doesn't tell lies.
Tyndale dedicated his life from translating the bible into vernacular English, so the laypeople of England could read it for themselves, This was not expressly against the rules, as mentioned, but Tyndale could not get anyone in the Catholic Church to help him with room and board.
Everyone was uncomfortable with the bible being reality accessible to the commoners, "because how could the Church then keep power"
Not to be deterred Tyndale went into hiding in Belgium and Germany, evading capture while he translated the New Testament, finishing it in 1525
It was printed en-masse and smuggled all over Europe, especially into England, "Where the Catholic's in charged burned a number of them in public"
Tyndale also finished the Old Testament in 1530 Tyndale was finely caught after some help from a backstabbing so call friend, name Henry Philips. Tyndale was charged with heresy-for no other reason but translating the bible into the English Language, Tyndale was strangled and burned to the stake-by the Catholic Church On the 6 Oct 1536 In Vilvoorde, outside Brussels, the Catholic Church had never apologised.
So what had Tyndale done in His translations that was so heretical?
Tyndale had translated the Greek word for "elder' as elder" instead of priest" He had translated the Greek word for, "Congregation' as congregation instead of Church" and the Greek word for "Repentance" as 'repentance" in stead of penance"
Why were such difference important to the Church? The Roman Catholic Church have priest not elders" A congregation implies a locally autonomous of believers guided by the Holy Spirit, 'And not a hierarchical unified subject to the Pope.
The Roman Catholic Church is built on penance and indulgence to the priest and Church, not repentance to, and forgiveness from God.
{See Martin Luther's 95 These on indulgence, the debate that sparked the Reformation} in trying to render the Greek into English, Tyndale's translations exposed the errors of the Catholic Church to the people, which quickly brought the wrath of the Church down on Him..
Uben it is easy to find who murdered Tyndale-and why? We just can't hide History, Like you can..

tyndale bible was translated from the gate bible compilation of fr erasmus. Nobody was hiding the bible.

Church the date tyndale was killed and the date the anglican Church was decleared.

brocab:
Ha Ha Ha" nothing in these two verses, talks about Mary sitting on the right hand of her son.
Who really listens to the Vatican-they don't even believe in the scriptures of God.

You wont read the correct document but you are happy to quote him out of context.

That is bias, sorry.

brocab:
Praying to saints in heaven has no biblical base, the bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray-to heavenly saints.
[Hebrews 4:16} Tells us we believers on Earth can approach the throne of Grace with confidence.
Which means we don't need the saints in heaven to pray for us-we can go straight to God ourselves.
We know you Catholic's argue over the fact-praying to the saints is no-different then praying to someone living on Earth.
So I am happy to give you, your answer-praying to heavenly saints isn't biblical...

This was the question kindly answer it.



Babacele :
So holy people in heaven are not part of the
church?

brocab:
Its good to hear you are back Uben-at least I may get some sense out from you, not like these other Catholic's who haven't half the brain you have.
Uben not only my N/T but for all who chooses to believe, N/T O/T is all the same Uben O/T tells of the coming of Jesus-and the N/T Jesus arrives. Don't forget Jesus always quoted O/T scriptures, and the N/T was written after Jesus-by inspired men filled with the Holy Spirit.

hope you know it was the Church that decided what books are part of the bible and which Isn't. You claim the Church is all pagan not born again that means your news testament is equally pagan.

johnw74:
If the rcc collected the Holy Scriptures and put them together into a book, so what
many others have done the same, the rcc didn't write those scriptures, as didn't the others,
they were in existance for thousand's of years


Did the Roman Catholic church give us our Bible?


Roman Catholics often say that it was their church that gave us the Bible. They sometimes claim this when defending their "Sacred Tradition," so that they might support extra-biblical teachings such as purgatory, penance, indulgences, and Mary worship. They often say the only way the Christian church knew what books are to be included in the Canon of Scripture was because it was revealed by word-of-mouth in the early church, that is, by the tradition of the Catholic Church.

Unfortunately, this argument implies that tradition is superior to Scripture. Of course, we are not saying that the Roman Catholic church teaches that tradition is above Scripture. But when Sacred Tradition is claimed to be the thing by which Scripture is given, then tradition is inadvertently the thing that gives blessing and approval to the Bible. Heb. 7:7 says, "But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater." The unfortunate psychological effect of saying that Roman Catholic tradition is what gave us the Bible is that it elevates their tradition to a level far greater than what is permitted in Scripture. In fact, it is contradicted by scripture:

1 Cor. 4:6, "Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to exceed what is written, in order that no one of you might become arrogant in behalf of one against the other."

The Bible tells us to obey the Word of God--to not go beyond the written Word (1 Cor. 4:6). Unfortunately, the problem with an elevated status of Roman Catholic church tradition is that it results in various justifications of its non-biblical teachings such as prayer to Mary, purgatory, indulgences, penance, works of righteousness, etc. Because it has deviated from trusting God's Word alone, it has ventured into unscriptural areas. Nevertheless, did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Bible? No, it did not.

First of all, the Roman Catholic Church was not really around as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. The Christian church was under persecution, and official church gatherings were very risky in the Roman Empire due to the persecution. Catholicism, as an organization with a central figure located in Rome, did not occur for quite some time in spite of its claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter.

Second, the Christian Church recognized what was Scripture. It did not establish it. This is a very important point. The Christian Church recognizes what God has inspired and pronounces that recognition. In other words, it discovers what is already authentic. Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice and they follow me . . . " (John 10:27). The church hears the voice of Christ; that is, it recognizes what is inspired, and it follows the word. It does not add to it as the Roman Catholic Church has done. Therefore, it is not following the voice of Christ.

Third, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament which is the Scripture to which Christ and the apostles appealed. If the Roman Catholic Church wants to state that it gave us the Bible, then how can they rightfully claim to have given us the Old Testament which is part of the Bible? It didn't, so it cannot make that claim. The fact is that the followers of God, the true followers of God, recognize what is and is not inspired.

Fourth, when the apostles wrote the New Testament documents, they were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit. There wasn't any real issue of whether or not they were authentic. Their writings did not need to be deemed worthy of inclusion in the Canon of Scripture by a later group of men in the so-called Roman Catholic Church. To make such a claim is, in effect, to usurp the natural power and authority of God himself that worked through the Apostles.

Fifth, the Scripture says, "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." (2 Pet. 1:20-21). The Bible tells us that the Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the very nature of the inspired documents is that they carry power and authenticity in themselves. They are not given the power or the authenticity of ecclesiastical declaration.
Conclusion

The Christian church, as an earthly organization, recognized the Word of God (John 10:27). It didn't give us the Word of God. Also, it was the Jews who gave us the Old Testament. The authenticity of the New Testament documents rests in the inspiration of God through the apostles--not the Catholic Church. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament. The Jews did. How can the RCC claim it gave us the Bible when it did not give us the Old Testament? Finally, when the Catholic Church claims that it is the source of the sacred Scriptures, it is, in effect, placing itself above the word of God by claiming that through its authority we received the word of God.

by Matt Slick
Did the Roman Catholic church give us our Bible?

i hope you know this is rubbish.

OLAADEGBU:
You mean Catholics have given their lives to their traditional religion? It is unfortunate that religion does not save only Jesus does.

The traditional religion also compiled your bible. You must also be a pagan.

brocab:
It really doesn't matter which country Tyndale was murdered-he was murdered by the Roman Catholic Church.
Tyndale was a great man" the Roman Catholic Church in England had forbidden the bible to be translated into the common tongue, the Church was adamant about this and did everything in its power to enforce this rule.
There is no question about it, but that the reason was simply that the bible in the hands of the common people will reveal how totally corrupt the Roman Church had become.
The Church did not want the people to know this, one cleric with whom Tyndale spoke about translating the scriptures raged;" The Roman Catholic Church said: We are better to be without God's law, then the Pope's.
Tyndale saw the absolute for reform in England, but he saw to that no reform could possibly came about without the bible being the standard of truth and life.
And undoubtedly persuaded by Luther's doctrine of the priesthood of all believers, he understood that the bible had to be in the hands of every believer in a language which they understood.
{Uben" Tyndale had done this for you too, he died so you to can have your dusty old bible sitting around home}
All of this is obvious, What is so totally amazing is that Tyndale's convictions were so strong that he determined to devote his life to accomplish that goal, and he determined to devote his life to that goal in spite of the fact that it would mean exile, poverty, suffering,
and finely a Martyr's death, it was clear for Tyndale from the outset that he would eventually be killed for what he determined to do; he went ahead with the work anyway.
{We can see God the Father in Heaven was looking after Tyndale-the bible was rewritten into all languages before he died-but we need to ask' who was looking after the Roman Catholic's at that time?}

how can Tyndale be murdered by the catholic Church when he was killed by anglicans?


You see how bias is making you deal? .

PastorAIO:
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

2 Thessalonians 2:15


Those who are really christians would know what the christian traditions are. Those who aren't, but just fake monkeys, would claims that christianity is not a religion with traditions.

amen

MiddleDimension:
http://olawalefrank..com.ng/2016/02/wednesday-rhapsody-of-realities.html?m=1

it seems some pentecostals now preach that it is posible for christians to forgive sins

lol.


After they condemn it they now practice it.

asuustrike2009:
Those worshipping images are called what

do you know any catholic who claims to worship images Or are you just arguing with yourself.?

TheUmbra:
Analice107, you intermix adultery and fornication in your writeup.

I want you to understand the hypocrisy and double standard-ness of man. Fornication before marriage that didn't lead to pregnancy and fornication that resulted in pregnancy are the same sin of fornication. They're both guilty before GOD. Should the church penalise the woman with pregnancy while the other who probably is a more grievous fornicator escapes and go all the way wearing white gown, walking down the aisle with a hidden pile of immortality? Isn't it what CHRIST said about the Pharisees who pay much emphasis on the outside rather than the inside? Who like to wash their hands but the inside of them remains unclean?

If the church would demand pregnancy test as a condition for staging a church wedding, then it's more befitting and proper they conduct VIRGINITY TEST so they can be well assured the woman is pure and undefiled and not a fornicator.

Is there any sin grievous enough that can prevent a man or woman from approaching the Throne of Grace? Was GOD's directive in Exodus 22 : 16 not a solution aimed at remedying an ugly situation? GOD's will for man is redemption, to restore that which was broken or lost. Not to compound or destroy.

I tell you, christians are the greatest obstacle to salvation, not the unbelieving world. We have set barriers and standards against our brethren, barriers and standards we ourselves couldn't cross.

Even when there was little or no grace in the Mosaic era, GOD was mindful and made a way for fornicators to get married so that children may be born legitimately.

Again, you still fail to realise that the true marriage as ordained by GOD is the act where the father of the bride hands over his daughter to the bridegroom after he fulfills the requirements of dowry. The church wedding is only a blessing of some sort and not an act of matrimonial bonding. The bonding took place already at the traditional setting. A pastor or priest has no spiritual or physical authority to give out anyone in marriage or bond them in matrimony. That power remains the privilege of the father of the bride.

If a church wants to punish fornicators, it is within their right to do so, but denying a pregnant fornicator the right to marry in the church is foolishness. It has not solved the problem, rather it worsens it and even stigmatise the unborn baby.

Legalistic christians not only lack the HOLY SPIRIT, they also lack common sense.

this

Ad Multos Annos

johnw74:
That reminds me of this:



It seems rc's cannot stop lying and false accusing, taking after their god:

Joh_8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

now all you need to do is show clearly that i ask lying have.

I repeat tyndale was killed in anglican england under the reign of king henry founder of anglicanism.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

brocab:
How do we know it wasn't God that guilded the Catholic Church-because God is the God of the Living-He isn't the God of the dead.
The world already knows the Catholic Church carries on with standard paganism-a Church that show signs of sin, everything the Church stands for-is truly against God.

I guess ur new testament is also pagan since the catholic church compiled its canon.

brocab:
It isn't biblical about Mary-so lets try and keep the bible simple-and obey it with full strength.
It wasn't the Catholic Church that made the bible visible to the hole world-matter of fact the church hid the bible-and it was men and women, the Church had murdered, men and women died in faith because of their courage they had for Christ.
The Catholic Church had removed William Tyndale head and burnt him to the stake-because he himself had changed the bible from the Latin language, to the English language.
Lets be truthful-and let us not hide the facts-how the bible was led to the people.

Stop telling lies, tyndale was killed in anglican england under king henry the founder of anglicanism.

why do u think tyndale got his manuscripts from?

brocab:
Well if I was to meet a priest-how do I present myself towards him?
Do I call him father? Do I bow down to him in respect?
How does one like you-respect such priest who are in authority?

if u are uncomfortable with father, then call him sir, mr... or whatever polite way u know. he won't mind.

If I was to quote the bible to him-would he understand it fully?
[color=#000099]If I told him-the Word said: I am also a man of God and I am from the priesthood of God-would he respect me?

he will be happy if u quote scriptures, very important. he will also agree that u are a priest. every xtian is a priest.

If I told him-the Word said: he must repent, would he agree with me?
[color=#000099]If I told him-the Word said: bow only to God-instead of Mary would he listen to me?

he will remind u that the life of a christian involve continous repentance, to die daily. he will discus ur concerns.

emmanuelex1:
I have always said it that you are ignorant and you are just good in assuming and believing rumors, please how old are you? you are probably afraid. Since you do not know how to present your self, please present your self like a sacrifice LOL

LOL

larrypourl:
This APC govt is terrible, no wonder they're loosing almost every case in court. Stop the media trial and propaganda and charge people to court if you've got substantial evidence and let the law decide not you finding people guilty without the pronouncements of the court.


Click my signature for quality leather/suede loafers.

read it well ir is already in court, the court ordered the seizure of the properties and ask that the judgement be published.


Read before you comment.

Rich4god:
Guy, be truthful... If you mind your business in the north and not trespass on their religion, you are more safe in the north than the East, removing Boko Haram. There are a huge number of foreigners in the Kano state alone doing normal business of buying and selling than there are in the entire south east combined.
Crimes in the East are on the high side when compared to the north, this is a fact that everyone knows.

are you serious?

lonikit:
tnx, but CNT we communicate God directly must we go through priests

This is like asking a protestant "why read the bible? Can we just get the holy spirit talk to us personally?"

Or asking a Lutheran Or a baptist "why do baptism as a part of receiving justification, is the giving your life to Christ by using the sins prayer not enough?"


In each of these cases a christian will say to listen to the holy spirit is great, to give your life to Jesus by saying the sinner prayer is beautiful, a catholic will say to confess to God is marvelous but God himself devised was by which we express our relationship with him.
Jesus give us scripture as a unique way of listening to him.
Jesus give baptism as a unique way of giving our lives to him by participating in Christ death and resurrection.

In a similar way a catholic, an orthodox and a oriental christian believe that confession is the unique way in which God express him forgiving love in the new covenant. Through it a true penitent receives unfailing assurance that him sinner is good.






Now on a lighter note will you talk a friend not to read him bible because the spirit of God can speak to him personally? Will you tell your friend to avoid baptism because he has given his life to Christ with the sinner prayer. The same way a catholic will take advantage of confession even though he can ask God directly. Because in confession he has the unfailing assurance of forgiveness, the peace of mind that follows, reconciliation with the people of God and the bonus of receiving matured christian advice on how to deal with the specific sins, encouragement, sometimes mini counselling.

5DMindset:
The Mbaise people are the root of Catholicism in Nigeria. I have studied the news from both sides and I think the Pope didnt do a nice job by not listening to the Mbaise people.

The moment you keep imposing Priests from other tribes who are not Catholics but by virtue of Nigeria's tribal nepotism allow one tribe to lord over the very known Catholic tribes, then you cause trouble.

I am proud that Mbaise people disobeyed the Pope. They are the root of Catholicism in Nigeria and in fact Africa. They have so many Priests but none was considered worthy enough, but a different tribe and people are always choosen and imposed on them.

It is time that Catholic Church stop using this language of 'annointing' to cheat Africans. You are using our money to develop Vatican and you want to impose people on us.

It wont work.

una money no develop vatican. Stop lying.

brocab:
You should know by now Uben-How long has it been-and still you haven't produced any evidence, about your beliefs-can you find any of it, written in the bible?.
And how can I understand if you aren't willing to explain-why you ask Mary to glide you-and why ask Mary to give you the saints to pray for you? when we have Jesus to pray for us? {John 17:20-23}

Do see a priest if you truly wish to be informed on these issues? i'll say a prayer for your welbeing.

celebgistsng:
In all this talk no catholic has given us the reasons why they pray to Mary and bow before statues.no cogent proof to show that it is biblical.

Do well to read the thread from the begining.

emmanuelex1:
You questons has been answered multiple times yet you can not see. You choose to be ignorant is not my fault.

You should know by now he isnt interested in learning, that is why everyone allows him to keep talk, his forte is baseless accusation.

brocab:
Again what can a priest teach me, what the bible can't teach me? "Nothing"
This is your problem-and this is where you go wrong in learning the scriptures yourself, you would rather ask the priest to give you all the answers.
This is why the bible was written-when we need the answers-we pray to God for the answers needed.
Priest and pastors can be wrong-but the bible can never be wrong-the bible is God's Word.

Romans 10:17 NKJV - So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Acts 8:31 31 And he said, How can I (understand), except some man should explains it to me?

His advice is apt. If you lack understanding of the biblical principle behind catholic practices and it seems we on nairaland are unable to help you, then i advise u to see a priest someone qualified to explain the biblical principles and its applications.
Or u may check
[url]forums.catholic.com[/url]

You see why is good to read your bible abi?

blueAgent:
Stop confusing yourself .Jesus was referring to the entire Christain body and not a particular Church.

and I tell you that you are Peter,
and on this rock I will build, my church,
and the gates of Hades will not overcome
it.


Jesus wasn't talking about every Church has was talking about his Church. The one he was building on the apostles, not the one ellen white decided to do.

Secondly Jesus as well paul warned that during the endtime false doctrines and prophets will arise.

how come you guys see to lack comprehension? Your churches are the end time Church teaching heresy are the bible prophesied. You doctrines are the ones that the bible was warning about. Get out of your churches of men formed in their end times look for the Church founded by the apostles.

The gate of Hell will not prevail has nothing to do with the Church been corrupted with evil doctrines

if heresy has prevailed against the Church then the decided has won. The gate of Hell has prevailed against the Church. That isn't possible unless you think Jesus is a liar.

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