₦airaland Forum

Amberon:
Do you not understand what bowing in worship means. Why going round in circles. I already said this before.

SO who told you catholics are 'bowing in worship' or did you assume that by yourself?

Themandator:
Please I must have missed that part where they were called his relatives...... Can you point it out.

The very same place where the bible says that james and co are son of another mary who is a 'sister' to mary d mother of Jesus.

easy already gave u those passages but i guess you werent paying attention.

Smeago007:
Prostration or not

The fact states your shouldn't bow down to them in worship nor whatever

It differs with Joshua encounter

Prostration has never been the case
Never was recorded a sin
Bowing and worshipping is the case

Prostration is ok, but bowing is wrong abi?

Smeago007:
Go and shake what the ark of covenant represents
That's the most holy thing on earth giving to the children of Isreal by God. They are still with it till today

Stop making useless argument. They didn't bow to it. Like you do to Mary
They didn't worship it like you do to Mary
Be realistic and flee from pegan worship

LOL,

so they didnt bow before an image they only prostrated before it. if jews did it then it is ok, if catholics did it then it becomes idolatry. hypocrisy

Splinz:
On the contrary, it is always to put you in checked when you sunk too low.

rather, It is to show u have no point and clueless on how to respond.

But Joshua rent his garments, and fell flat on the ground before the ark of the Lord until the evening, both he and all the ancients of Israel: and they put dust upon their heads.

Smeago007:
Did they worship nor in any form bowed down to it
What's your point?
Blind argument

have you lost the ability to read?
But Joshua rent his garments, and fell flat on the ground before the ark of the Lord until the evening, both he and all the ancients of Israel: and they put dust upon their heads.
they didn't just bow they prostrated there till evening

this is what the angel said

But while he thought on these
things, behold the angel of the Lord
appeared to him in his sleep, saying:
Joseph, son of David, fear not to take
unto thee Mary thy wife, for that
which is conceived in her, is of the
Holy Ghost.

Themandator:
Sir, the angel that brought the message to Joseph told him not to be afraid to take her as his WIFE. ......Mary did not become a lock object or altar of worship to the Lord.

actually you need to read before you start misinterpreting. the key is the previous verse. Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately.

so that message from the angel is to prevent him from putting her away.

As for Rabinnic law, the secret of Marys pregnancy was actually known to Joseph , Mary and the Lord so there wasn't anyone that her pregnancy could have been attributed to other than Joseph

Matt. 12:46....“While he was still speaking to the crowds, behold, his mother and his brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak with him. And someone said to him: "Behold, your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking you." But responding to the one speaking to him, he said, "Which one is my mother, and who are my brothers?" And extending his hand to his disciples, he said: "Behold: my mother and my brothers. For anyone who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:46-50‬ ‭CPDV‬‬

Joseph was a just man and a Jew, even though the pregnancy was attributed to him he knew it wasn't his, he also knew his Bride was overshadowed by God...the same word that the Bible uses when talking about the ark of the covenant....

1. no good 1st century Jew will have sex with a woman whether wife, betrothed or concubine who has a baby that isn't his while with him even if the woman didn't commit adultery.
2. no Jew plays around a holy thing moreso if it is overshadowed by the most high.

Mark 6:3; “"Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? Are not his sisters also here with us?" And they took great offense at him.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭CPDV‬‬

John 2:12....“After this, he descended to Capernaum, with his mother and his brothers and his disciples, but they did not remain ......


Acts 1:14.....“All these were persevering with one accord in prayer with the women, and with Mary, the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.”....... Catholic public Domain Bible


‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:14‬ ‭CPDV‬‬
cpdv. 1 Cor. 9:5............Do we not have the authority to travel around with a woman who is a sister,just as do the others apostles , and the brothers of the Lord and cephas......CPDB....... Gal. 1:19..............But others of the apostles saw I none, save for James the Lord's brother.



Matt 18:16 say in the mouth of two or three is a thing confirmed ......That Mary had other children by Joseph has been confirmed by more than three verses from different books of the new testament.

and not once did the bible call those people sons of Mary, instead the Bible clearly attributes them to another Mary who is a relative of Mary the mother of Jesus. they are Jesus' relatives not blood brothers.

lereinter:
where do they sell catholic bible that ve have 77 chapters
this is first time am hearing...

but i like that drinking aspect o

Jehovah ve mercy on me

enter a bookshop and ask for it, it's online, the most common one in Nigeria is good news bible.

Splinz:
You're too dull. I've been telling you to go and sharpen your comprehension skills.

If you can't even decode what I type here, one can only imagine the damages you've been doing to Scriptures. SMH

this is what you always say when you are out of ideas. whenever you run out of ideas you start making noise about comprehension skills.

diversion tactics.

Smeago007:
Your baseless

it isn't baseless you are claiming that to prostate or bow before images is wrong, I just showed you a biblical example. if you claim we Catholics are committing idolatry then you should also accuse Joshua too.

Smeago007:
Obviously its not
Read the verse properly

It was an aggrieved moment.
Sorrow,dispair etc

so at aggrieved band sorrowful moments it is OK to prostate before images? but it is wrong to do so at calm moments.

Butterworth:
You Have a poor understanding of Ogun.

actually I can bet it is you who has a poor understanding of it. iron is regarded by traditionalist as the physical manifestation of their deity.

lol, Protestantism has become a heresy birthing anomalies.

Broda09:
Not related to topic but we Christians more than often blame Muslims for using the sword to spread their religion. I think Christianity has done the same, this below popular Christian hymn sounds like a war cry to me...

Stand up, stand up for Jesus! ye soldiers of the cross;
Lift high His royal banner, it must not suffer loss:
From vict’ry unto vict’ry, His army shall He lead,
Till every foe is vanquished, and Christ is Lord indeed.

Stand up, stand up for Jesus! The trumpet call obey:
Forth to the mighty conflict, in this His glorious day;
Ye that are men now serve Him against unnumbered foes;
Let courage rise with danger, and strength to strength oppose.


Stand up, stand up for Jesus! Stand in His strength alone,
The arm of flesh will fail you, ye dare not trust your own;
Put on the gospel armor, and watching unto prayer,
Where calls the voice of duty, be never wanting there.

Stand up, stand up for Jesus! the strife will not be long;
This day the noise of battle, the next the victor’s song;
To him that overcometh a crown of life shall be;
He with the King of glory shall reign eternally.

the song isn't taking about a physical Battle but a spiritual one, it says " the arm of flesh shall fail you"

samuelezekiel:
The issue is not having a molten image, the issue is bowing down to it to show your loyalty. The serpent that Moses made, they are not to bow down to it but to look at it, it symbolise Jesus Christ in the cross, and just like God ask Moses to point his staff and speak to the rock, but Moses strike the rock of ages out of annoyance, which resulted to him not entering His rest(the promised land).
God doesn't want anyone bowing to anything that's why he made sure that when he appears you see nothing... Most at times throughout the Bible, they always mistake an angel/messenger for God himself even till date... No one can see God without dying, even Moses that spoke with God face to face never saw His face.
The point is do not bow don to any image, humans are more powerful than we can imagine, do you know we are to judge the angels... How awesome is that... It's disappointing to see the imagine of God bowing to a wooden imagine, it's disappointing as it is pathetic.

like this abi?

6 Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads.

Izonpikin:
more scriptures for you

Matthew 12:46
New International Version
While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside[/b], wanting to speak to him.

New Living Translation
As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, [b]his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.


John 2:12New International Version (NIV)

12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days.


i cant believe that one can deny mary of her giving birth to other kids so that she can be worshiped by lovers of idolatry in our present time. its baffling.

I can't believe a Christian will teach Mary had other kids.

G

Smeago007:
Catholics ooo
Stop kneening down to craven images
Ooooo pls na

Even if they said its God almighty they made from wood work.
Don't kneel,bow or worship
While deceiving yourself your praying

I repeat
God commanded
Moses tell them to look at the serpent

I didn't see bow down nor worship
Nor pray to the serpent for intercession

Even after the craven serpant through God healed the isrealite
Many came back and started worshipping the serpent
See 2kings 18 vs 4
King James Bible
He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

God himself was happy with Hezekiah for destroying
That craven image

Do you think he would be in support of the mass sculptures in place in catholic church that people kneel,bow,worship and believe in?

It is written that our God is a jealous God especially when it deals with idolatry
See exodus 20 vs 5

Thou not make thyself "graven images" not just an image

"Graven"

Pegan doctrines has taken over
The catholic roots is from Rome
So what do you expect??

Idol worship still run in their vein

is this also idol worship?

Joshua 7:6 Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads.

Izonpikin:
she would have been involved in general prayers just like every other christian...but I can bet my life no disciple met Mary in particular to intercede for them... and no apostle extolled Mary to a lofty position of veneration like the catholics are doing today..

you just want to die for nothing. You want to make an argument from silence by betting on your life over something your are ignorant of.

Themandator:
Does it make sense to you that for thirty three of Jesus ministry Joseph never made love to Mary and even after his death ....Even when God through the angel referred to may as his wife.

Excerpt on the subject matter



Mary had four other sons, Joseph, James, Jude, and Simon. Because of the virgin birth, Joseph was not the father of Jesus so these were the half brothers of Jesus. The last three mentioned are not to be confused with those who were disciples of Jesus by the same name. Here are some passages where the other sons of Mary by Joseph are mentioned (Matt. 12:46; 13:55; Mark 6:3; John 2:12; 7:3, 5, 10; Acts 1:14; 1 Cor. 9:5; Gal. 1:19).

it makes absolute sense that Joseph will not touch Mary, Joseph was a Jew not a Nigerian he knew that anything related to God was reserved and can never be used for it usually function. in fact if god passed a door it becomes permanently locked, everything touched by the divine was immediately reserved and any who uses it becomes guilty(cf Daniel vs Nebuchadnezzar) in fact any one who touches it wrongly can be stoned to death....

do you think a Jew in his right mind will have sex with a woman who has been overshadowed by God and made pregnant by him? is he crazy to try that nonsense? besides rabinnic laws prevent a Jew of sleeping with a woman who gave birth for someone else while in your house.

Butterworth:
You really think I care about your religious shits

My reason for postings these pictures is that you Christians call Traditionalists Idol worshippers but turn around and do exactly same thing they are doing

Bowing down before a sculpture or an image

Quit the hypocrisy! !

I hope u know that to an Ogun worshipper the physical iron is actually Ogun?

Splinz:
I do not know of any Joshua that is an idolater like you. But then, just in case there's a so-called saint called "saint Joshua", pronounced as such by Babylon, then you may as well say HI to him.

I knew you will be ignorant of holy people. Joshua succeeded Moses as leader of Israel, it so happens that he too enjoys prostrating in front of images. but I guess you don't know him, they haven't taught about him in your Sunday school.

Themandator:
Is there anywhere in the scripture where "dead saints" interceded for the living saints or they all did their intercession while alive?

rev 5:8

Splinz:
Okay. Say hello to your idols for me.

I'll all remember to tell Joshua my co image prostrator you said hi.

bayelsaowei:
dont depict ,just show me..at least someone just put up pictures of your colleagues out rightly bowing down to images which you were not instructed by God to venerate...

Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell
to the earth on his face before the
ark of the LORD- Joshua 7

oya read it up.

bayelsaowei:
you see ehn...the likes of ubenedictus and every other Catholic who has blindly supported idolatry will answer to Jesus when the end comes...

And you k of what he's gonna tell them.."GET AWAY FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS"...

IF THOSE pictures there aren't idolatry I wonder what it...

We should have stuck with the religions of our forefathers rather than hide behind idols and then claim to be serving God in heaven..

you are now the new judge who will tell us who goes to hell abi? accuser of the brethren.

e go shock ur feelings when u see me for heaven

Splinz:
No, I think Babylon invented it.

oh keep using your Babylon bible.

bayelsaowei:
remember this question was about you..since you claimed you all bow down to yourselves asking each other for intercession like your individual mouths were quaked with stroke so as not to approach God yourselves through Jesus Christ...

Please put up your image in your church and that of your fellow brothers and bow down to them..

Keep constructing Mary's image. You all will answer to Jesus who never asked you guys to mold images..

you have now started lying. it seem u can't even discuss truthfully where did the claim above?

Splinz:
More pitiable is he who thinks in his head that the true Church was ever a part of the Synagogue of Satan. What delusion can be greater than this?

Anyway, for those who don't even know when the New Testament Church was birthed, silly assumptions can't be ruled out.

yeah yeah you think your later day group birthed the bible abi?

bayelsaowei:
have you forgiven their sins..

Reason I asked that question was to know if actually you all have images and molded structures of over 500million catholics round the world and bowing down and asking them to help intercede for all your numerous sins...

I hope your fellow worshipers have images of you and also you having images of them...i hope you all bow down to yourselves and recite mantras to yourselves..

there are images in catholic churches just as there were images in the Jewish temple. Catholic pray for others sin just as 1 jn says, the successors of the apostles still forgive sins in Christ name in 20:23. I may also have my image in the church. but Catholics only venerate glorified Christians

bayelsaowei:
you mean you want to show me live pictures of joshua??..

Please show me..

actually I said I can depict it. do you understand English? or you just felt like writing live pictures where I wrote depiction? the live picture you need is painted in the bible with words do u need the passage?

MZLady39:
John 20:23

Author: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
What did Jesus have in mind when, according to John 20:23, He gave His disciples authority to forgive sins?

This passage has been debated for centuries, particularly during and after the Protestant Reformation. Forgiveness of sin is essentially an act of divine grace toward rebellious creatures made possible through the costly sacrifice of Jesus. Whatever conclusion we reach on the meaning of this text, we have to remain within that particular understanding.
1. Forgiveness and Personal Offenses: God's forgiving disposition is expected to be practiced by human beings. Jesus said: "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him" (Luke 17:3, 4).* This generous spirit is modeled after God's infinite disposition to forgive us our sins: "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you" (Eph. 4:32).
2. Forgiveness and Church Discipline: Although the verb "to forgive" is not employed in Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, the context of the last verse suggests that the authority to "bind" and to "loose" includes the idea of disciplining members or forgiving the offenses of those who repented. This responsibility was given to the church and not to a particular individual within the church. It is true that at first Jesus was addressing Peter (Matt. 16:19), but the same was said to the disciples (Matt. 18:18) and through them to the church. The text could be translated literally: "Whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven." The church's decision must reflect a decision previously made in heaven. This is possible only through a knowledge of God's will as revealed in the Scriptures.
3. Forgiveness and the Proclamation of the Gospel: John 20:23 does not seem to fit either of the two previous cases. Yes, Jesus is addressing the disciples, but they stand in the text as representatives of the church(es). Through them Jesus is instructing the church.
First, we must examine the context. After the Resurrection Jesus appears to the disciples, greets them, and says, "As the Father has sent me, I am sending you" (John 20:27). Then He gives them the Holy Spirit. Jesus is commissioning the disciples, incorporating them into the mission the Father entrusted to Him. They are empowered through the Spirit: "If they forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven" (verse 23). They are to go out to the world and forgive or not forgive sins.
Second, there is nothing in the text to suggest that Jesus is instituting the ecclesiastical practice of auricular confession, or the absolution of postbaptismal sins by a church officer. [b]Those are later developments in the life of the postapostolic church[\b] and should not be read into this text.
Third, John knows that when we confess our sins to God they are forgiven through Christ (1 John 1:9). Christ continues to be our atoning sacrifice before the Father, and the forgiving power of His sacrifice is not temporally limited in any way (1 John 2:1, 2; 4:10).
Finally, since Christ's command to the disciples is in fact the evangelical commission, we can use other biblical passages dealing with that commission to interpret John 20:23. In other words, clearer passages should be used in order to understand a difficult one better. In this case Luke 24:47 is useful.
After His resurrection Christ appeared to the disciples and said to them: "Repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." The disciples and the church forgive sins in the sense that they confront humanity with the gospel of judgment and salvation (John 3:16; 12:31). Individuals react to that proclamation, and the church decides who is to join it and who is not to join it.
In other words, the authority bestowed on the church by Christ—to forgive or not to forgive—is the authority to preach the gospel and to decide who can or cannot be baptized. It is a tremendous responsibility that should not be taken lightly.
*Bible texts in this article are quoted from the New International Version.

you should ask your op how she figured out the bold cos it's a lie.

bayelsaowei:
you see ehn...the likes of ubenedictus and every other Catholic who has blindly supported idolatry will answer to Jesus when the end comes...

And you k of what he's gonna tell them.."GET AWAY FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS"...

IF THOSE pictures there aren't idolatry I wonder what it...

We should have stuck with the religions of our forefathers rather than hide behind idols and then claim to be serving God in heaven..

should I also depict Joshua prostrating before a golden Cherubim so u can accuse him of idolatry too.


italo where that PIC