₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU:
Maybe you can help me out here. Did he say that we are saved by grace alone?

did he in any place deny that we are saved by grace alone?
Or you are just looking for how to pick an arguement

OLAADEGBU:
Are we then saved by both?

by neither, we are saved by the merits of Christ passion and death applied to us as grace, a "working, salvific faith" is simply a necessary precondition.

Was Abraham saved?

I never said the old testament saints were not saved, heb 11 is full of men and women who pleased God and who through faith were reckon righteous, even at that the old testament was defective because it lack what the new has i.e GRACE.

Granted that it is by grace we are saved through faith but the proud who insists on adding his works to the finished work of Christ to be saved cannot receive the grace of God. The law is for the proud and grace for the humble. God resists the proud.

you haven't been reading your bible well.

There is something called the "law of Christ", and the grace we recieve enables us to live it.
Listen to paul.


To those outside the law I became as one outside the law -- not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ -- that I might win those
outside the law ( I Cor. 9:21).

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death ( Romans 8:2).

You may not like it but the bible clearly shows that there is a new and higher principle of obedience in the new testament.

Gal 5:2 Now I Paul say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness (Gr. dikaiosune— justification). For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love.

Our works in themselves cannot justify us, but the grace that justifies is only for those whose faith is willing to work thru charity.

Are you saying that we have to obey His laws before we can receive His grace?

No!

We receive grace without work, the law isn't the begining of salvation.

We receive grace first before we can do work, but we receive grace IN ORDER to do good work, we are members (branches) of the vine empowered to produce fruits and he who does not produce will be cut out. A christian who doesn't work is a branch without fruit, it will be cut off.

That is how our work co-operate with faith. It ensures we remain in the vine.

Does your working in love precede your faith in Christ or is a condition for getting saved?

working in love doesn't precede faith, it is a part and parcel of salvific faith.
and yes! That faith works in love is a necessity for salvation, the branch without fruit must be cut down.

OLAADEGBU:
If you mean anyone can be saved without committing their lives to Christ then your doctrine is faulty. Study the Bible to make yourself approved.

I believe it is your doctrine that is faulty.
Christ is the principle for all merit not a supposed "committing your life" that is why paul rightly teaches in scriptures that when the gentiles act rightly even without God's laws they become a law unto themselves.

If that was the case then there would be no need for the sacrificial death of Christ. Ignorance is no longer an excuse.

The sacrificial death of Christ is the exact reason why paul taught that the gentiles were laws unto themselves.


Some Christian just refuse to read their bibles well, go back and read the early chapters of romans.

OLAADEGBU:
Has Empiree squeezed Ubenedictus and found that kind of juice I posted earlier on?

ola, what juice are you looking for?

OLAADEGBU:
His good work of solidarity will not save him if he did not commit his life to our Lord Jesus Christ.

my dear,

please kindly note that you are NOT God, He doesn't take counsel from you, nor consult you in his sovereign decisions, as such you should know you are not in the position to decide or even know infalliably who will or won't make it to Heaven.

That aside Paul rightly teaches in rm that when the gentiles do as their conscience dictate they become a law unto themselves, so my dear I am sure that when I get to heaven I'll see many who didn't "commit their life to Jesus" because God would have judged their ignorance of the gospel and confirmed his words in the bible that when the gentile act rightly he becomes a law to himself.

brocab:
What is the purpose in your praying, what would you like me to ask the Lord for you.
Psalms 51 I can read out. In my belief's in God, we asked what people would like us to pray for them in prayer?

follow the discussions dear,

each person is supposed to pick a date on that date he will state his own prayer intention and propose a psalm with which all may use in praying for him.

It isn't about reading the psalms, we catholics do not just read psalms as a book of the bible, we actually pray the psalms.

I'll go straight to the point.

On its own Faith does not have the power to save anyone.

On it own works do not have the power to grant salvation either.

Both of them were present in the old testament and if they were sufficient in themselves God wouldn't have ended the old testament and make a new covenant.

The bible is very clear on what saves us.

We are saved by grace, the operative principle of salvation for all men is the super abundant merits of Jesus which is applied unto us as grace, this is what sets the new testament apart.

This grace is necessarily pre-conditioned by God upon Faith, so before one can recieve grace he must believe, it is by faith that we can please God and it is by faith that we get grace.

On the other hand a faith standing alone is totally useless, what is the use of believing in God if we do not love him or hope in him?, infact when paul teaches about faith that saves he also teaches about a "obedience of faith", so true salvific faith must obey! This is why james state clearly that a faith standing alone is dead, it can't please God or even sustain a life of grace. So he who says he believes unto salvation must posses a faith that work in love, because faith without love is totally useless.

So yeah in a nutshell I'll say I am saved by the mercy of God who gratuitiously applies the merits of Christ on me as grace and enables me to recieve this by a faith working in love.

I don't have to merit salvation because Jesus already merited it for me, and even then I can only recieve it by faith which works in love.

It is possible the guy converted, but it is even more possible he didn't convert. He may simply have been a good muslim who didn't agree with the isis propaganda and was ready to lay down his life with his Christian friends.

May God have mercy on him, wash him of all sins and grant him eternal life.

Juzzybabe gud morning.

brocab:
Are these the prayer dates, and you pray the Rosary, We don't have the Rosary, so what are you praying for, can I be any assistance to you all?

follow the discussion,

psalms will be prayed.

Abuamam:
You sir, are a truthful christian, you must be catholic. I am sure you cannot possibly be a pentecostal.

my dear, I try not to overgeneralise or stereotype, I have seen truthful protestants, and I believe most people are capable of truth depending on how much the issue in question affects them.

You may be happy about my supposed truth now and totally disagree when the "truth" I speak is directly opposed to what you believe.

And Yes, I am a catholic and thank you, I believe there is a compliment concealed there.

Aitee1:
Thanks for the welcome but I'm not catholic, I only wish to learn more about them.

Greetings to the brethren!

you are most welcome.

What will you like to know.

brocab:
Is this a yes Can I join your gang.
Just think, the Lord could use brocab as some kind of a spiritual leader, how cool would that be.
Brothers and sisters coming together, praying for each other and teaching each other in word and in truth.
I love you guys..

there is no gang here dear?


And since you don't seem to be going anywhere soon, pick a date.

Kamsified:
This is salc's attendance register. Looks more updated

Asabeq, MzflexyDeeva, SalC, richieboyn, bluerange, KingMEXX, languageso, try69, HurricaneChris, iykmon, geni, Cocoberry, Coldblooded, Ikegift4real, PrettySpicey, Softsparkyy, Nnekamezor, Shine96, Zikangee, Promking, Fidinwala, Chidikus, Leon12, Unongu, leonshom, Hernyolar, Firearm, MarvellousGod, Xynerise, tonaydo, Ikaboy, Jraph, Gregdcutie, Tyina27, gboru, JohnsonEmma, Arookigbo, tobicool, Deogratias1, Oshiano, Lynpetra, syncan, italo, ubenedictus, debbie, Kamsified, MariaGorreti, Chikk, Ify124, babestell, Jnrbayano, Calabarboi, FrancisTony, damerry, Vest, btoks, StObaino, Jaywizee, Frankben, Penny01502, Piro4rl, Othenok, LordOrochimaru, BonnyDominic, ronz, Rufex07, Trendytessy, Amannda2013, Modestdude, BuBBLE, MOBJECTIVE, ChineloSA, Missonas, Agimor, Willy07, Kizmarty, Stunningjudy, Maureenah, Rochiq, Rich4god, Woky, POPEII, Cyphercypher, engrtee, Chukwudi44, Peppyluv02, Jenoncam, MrAladin, Hidentity, Burmak, Lordnammy, titoetal, Nomski0, wonda26, Davikk01, Livebullet, Polkabluedot, Tuneller, Dyla, exxell, Clemigho, Lovethywilbedon, Macelliot, Frodobee, Chidima, Mum4all, Pdizzle, dragon2, lacum, Jennydoris, justjify, 3tees, EggovinMma

Please Pick your dates to be prayed for by the brethren. It's going to be a 21day novena starting from the 10th.
Thanks n God bless us all

Can I take a week?


I hear it is not a sin to be greedy with spiritual things.

Make i continue thinking.

darknez:
First paragraph: I agree!

Second paragraph: "nothing" was put in context.

Question: What's your view on the existence of darkness? Do you think it was not created?

there is a good reason I didn't comment on the issue of darkness.

It is a funny case.

Darkness is like a default mode, I don't think it was created on it own, it is no a "creation" per say, Gen 1:1 says

In the begining God created the heavens and the earth.

The moment it mention creation of heavens and earth it immediately assumes that darkness was the default mode. Darkness is not a thing, it simply a absence of a thing. It is the default mode of creation that is why the first word gen records is
"Let the be light".

Light is not the natural mode of the created world darkness is, light is trully speaking the created thing.




Anyway it is a silly philosophical discuss.

Darkness is like evil, it isn't a thing, it is just the absence of true good, evil is another thing not created it is the absence of something, the next mode once "good" disappears.

Taylor86:
dnt b deceived buhari involved GEJ because more of wisdom and intelligent will be applied


wetin d Abok'i sabi

cow flu president

How come you lack common sense?

Everybody in Nigeria is discussing how to make a stronger more prosperous nation but you seem happy to create division using silly tribal sentiments.

Who told you a cattle rearer is inherently unintelligent by profession? Where did you get that silly idea from?

What stops an aboki from been a good president.

This is plain stewpity, I'm sorry if that is insultive but I can't find another word to discribe the nonsensical nature of you tribal, divisive rhetoric.

Again I apologise if I offend it wasn't my aim but please upgrade your thought process, improve your mentality.

urheme:
So because moses took bones it becomes a doctrine to remove the dead from their resting place even when half decayed, does it make sense to you
The verse you cited did not say by extention that christians should vandalise graves, it is rather an act of disrespect to the dead. An act of crime soto say

I give up on you guys
Really

why are you still crying?

You asked for biblical citations for the practice of traslating the remains of the dead, I kindly did so and showed you it isn't unbiblical as you claimed and yet you continue to cry?

What exactly is your problem?

McSterling:
Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Corrie Ten Boom come to mind. I read sometime ago that Hitler also used the antisemitic writings of the reformer Martin Luther to justify his pogrom.

maxmilian kolbe also comes to mind.

smoothpapuzy:
Please advice me.
On two occasions, I've met with priest to hear my confession but they told they were busy and I should come on the day of confession.
As a Catholic I learnt that a priest will hear your confession anywhere you are, anywhere,.
But right there in the church, I was turned down by two different priest.
What if I had died, whose head would my sins lay?
Should I have bluntly reminded them it was there duty to save souls at any point in time?...

Please advice me, I need to know how to curb this!

Usually, I encourage penitents to see a priest immediately they recognise the need for confession and can prepare for it. I can't remember when last I went for confession at the time for confession.

Priests are also encouraged to hear confessions anywhere, at air ports, on a side walk, in a car, inside a battle field,...wherever and whenever there is a contrite sinner ready to avail him/herself of the sacrament as such it is odd to see a priest who rejects a penitent, who knows the person may die just after seeing the priest and the priest may be the stumbling block on his way to eternity. As such I feel your anger.
But at times there may be valid reasons for a priest to not hear confessions, If a priest is in mortal sin he may abstain from administering any sacrament including penance, an odd case will be if the priest in question does not have the faculties to hear confession, another maybe if he is "indisposed", priest are human and there are days when the last thing a priest needs is to listen to another's sins, he may have some more important things to do like a sick call. I do not know this priest particular problem but any of the above is posible. I know a few priest who will off their phones, refuse to hear confession and instruct their house help to reject both visitors and sick calls when they wish to travel, this isn't a good practice.

I do not know the situation of the priests in question but I'll give them the benefit of a doubt. I'll advise you to try to tailor your confessions to the parish time or visit another parish.


I have once met a priest who neither shows up for confessions at the appointed time or be disposed for a private confession, this is a very rare case, such priest may be kindly reminded of their priestly duty.

darknez:
That thought occurred to me but it wasn't very appealing, hence I dropped it. Absence of light is inadvertently implying an absence of God who we know is Light.

not exactly.

The absence of the physical light does NOT imply the absence of God. God and physical light are not one and the same thing. So physical light can be absent and God will still be present, God is present at night when there is darkness.

What exactly is nothing? Empty space? If God created the Universe, then he did create nothing.

nothing is not "empty space" nothing is not even a vacuum because a vacuum has a thing called spaces.

Nothing as the word implies is no-thing, no thing at all.

peppyluv02:
"Pope rejects gay French diplomat Laurent Steffani,as an ambassador to the Holy See."


Good one I must say. As much as we don't judge them,we can't accept them working for us or representing us. It not good for the tarnished image and dignity of the church we are trying so hard to restore.

i don't exactly agree,

I think the church should be consistent, if she is teaching love and non-discrimination for gays then I do not understand why the vatican is rejecting a diplomat because he is gay.


Consistency.

brocab:
Firstly in Christ you don't need to see any priest for confession, you just ask the Lord in prayer anywhere-and repent.
Secondly a priest has no power to forgive sins. Mark 2:10, "But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins..

Matthew 16:25 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
Priest can't save your souls.
Romans 10:9-10, That if we confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart, that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. V's 10-For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
Only Jesus can save your soul.Only Jesus can hear your confessions.
Talk with Him today...

did you miss John 20:21- 23 and james 5: 16 in your bible study?

jared007:
Adolf Hitler was not a christian but a chronic occultist. Recruited into the German Brotherhood of Death(Thule Society). Was sponsored by the occultic Jesuits of the Roman Catholics and the Satanic House of Rothschild during the World War. Herr Hitler!

easy dear, the Jesuits had nothing to do with hitler.

PastorAIO:
It is not my place to pronounce who is a christian or not. My point for months has been that it is not your place either and it is an arrogance and obnoxious presumption on your part to go around calling anyone who does not share your level of bigotry a non christian.

yeah,

the question becomes even more redundant as the "definition of a christian" and how one becomes a christian changes from denomination to denomination. For orthodox, catholics, lutherians, anglican and a host of others, anyone even a child validly baptised using the trinitarian formular is thereby incorporated into the body of Christ and may rightly be called a Christian, for the reform circle to become a Christian is to accept Jesus as Lord and savior, and thus be "saved" and this salvation cannot be lost even if you kill the whole world.

So yes hitler could have been a Christian no matter the definition used, if baptism is used as the criteria then he was certainly baptised, if accepting Jesus as lord is the criteria then he may have had a salvation experience when he was young and was thus saved for all eternity. For all we know hitler could have been a christian.

Syncan:
I won't want to prod you further in this line of thought as long as it stops with darkness, but that last sentence...somehow evokes a no no from the reader. No wahala bro, but beware, if Ubenedictus finds time he may want to sing and dance on this. .

lol,

i won't even touch that one.

McSterling:
Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Corrie Ten Boom come to mind. I read sometime ago that Hitler also used the antisemitic writings of the reformer Martin Luther to justify his pogrom.

yes hitler managed to justify himself with everything he could find, the writtings of luther were as good as any, he also cited the examples of medieval catholic kingdoms.

johnydon22:
Eeeehm oga hitler's assaults were on the jews not christians... He was under the impression that germany was betrayed by the jews during W.W.1..... he fought in w.w.1

hitler started with the jews but as he continued he managed to lay hand on any who opposed him Christians included, his persecution camps have the names of a some catholic priests and other ministers, a some of whom dies with the jews.

brocab:
She has already found the truth in Christ.
It's not easy giving up what she already knows.

I have no problems believing she has truly found the truth in Christ Jesus, I do not believe the person you quoted doubt that.

But I have an advise for the OP, you fell in love with a catholic, you saw something beautiful in him irrespective of his religious affiliation, if he is talking marriage with you then I can assume that he is serious about you and loves you just as much, religion is a very important topic for catholics, if he is like me then I'll say his religious affiliation is important to him, an important part of his life, if you took the trouble to fall in love with him them I say you should take the trouble to at least study what he believes, there are many misconceptions out there and you just listed one, you claim that catholics do not believe in the gifts of the spirit which isn't true. If you love him then take the challenge to at least learn what he believes.


Unlike some on the thread, I am not advising you join his church just because you love him, that is a decision only you can make out of conviction, love isn't an excuse for everything, you can make silly decisions in love and regret them later.

What I am saying is that you truly look into what he believes, not from your pastors or from hearsay but direct from people who share those beliefs, practicing catholics and the catholic church itself, listen, contrast it with what you believe and what the bible says, see how he understands things and then you will be in a better position to make a decision, if his beliefs are absolutely contradictory to the Christian message as witnessed in scriptures and absolutely irreconcilable with yours, then you may consider leaving him, if not then you may consider other more positive options.


To put my point in simple words, if you want to break up with your guy because of his church then you must be able to look him in the eye and say to him "I honestly tried everything to bring my love for you to completion but our differences are irreconcilable" not just because you are afraid of what some people said about his church.

Someone gave you a link to a catholic thread on nlans where you can ask questions about the catholic church, I suggest you use it.

Peace

ayoku777:
Gal 3v13 said -...for it is written, CURSED is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So then; what was Christ when He hung on that tree?

Hmmm, you're tip-toeing around their interpretation; so as not to shoot yourself in the leg.

If you really believed those scriptures; this argument would have ended since.

God bless.

Galatians 3:13 talks about Jesus being made a “curse” for us and quotes Deuteronomy 21:22-23.

Some might understand this as God the Father spiritually cursed His Son Jesus, but taken in that sense is quite blasphemous and not what Deut 21 was saying. Deuteronomy 21 is talking about the most humiliating form of death, crucifixion, and is described as a curse because the Jewish understanding was that someone
had to be really bad to deserve that kind of death. The OT actually sheds valuable light on this understanding, two specific passages demonstrate this clearly:


Joshua 8: 28 So Joshua burned Ai and made it a permanent heap of ruins, a desolate place to this day. 29 He hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset, Joshua ordered them to take his body from the tree and throw it down at the entrance of the city gate. And they raised a large pile of rocks over it, which remains to this day.


Joshua 10: 26 Then Joshua struck and killed the kings and hung them on five trees, and they were left hanging on the trees until evening. 27 At sunset Joshua gave the order and they took them down from the trees and threw them into the cave where they had been hiding. At the mouth of the cave they placed large rocks, which are there to this day.


These passages show clearly that hanging someone on a tree is a form of grave humiliation, especially for a king. Notice how
the passages indicate the bodies were taken down before sunset, this is according to the command in Deut 21 when this form of execution is carried out. Also, the bodies were thrown into a cave and covered with rocks. The parallels here to Christ's crucifixion are very clear, but this is not Penal Substitution because with this in mind passages like Phil 2:8 say Christ “became obedient unto death even death on a cross,” and thus the message is that Christ's perfect obedience (willing to undergo the worst humiliation) is what is carries the true value (towards making satisfaction), not the torture itself.


Put simply the curse of the law described in Deut 21 refers to the most shameful type of death, Pauls point is that by the most shameful death Christ underwent, the very one considered accursed by God, Christ free us from the curse which our disobedience to the law merits.

Again I repeat this does not teach that Jesus took the wrath of God and was sent to hell fire.

The simple message of that passage is that the shamefull death, "accursed death" of the innocent Christ cancelled out the curse which we rightly deserve from the law.

By accepting the cross he free us from the burden of the law.

ayoku777:
So to you, that the Father forsook Jesus is heresis? I'm sure to you; that Jesus was made a curse or sin and was numbered with transgressors is also heresis.

Can someone who is by nature God be made sin? Yes He can (2Cor 5v21)

yes dear, the bible uses the one word for sin and sin offering so yes rightly understood he can be made sin for us

Can someone who is by nature God be made a curse? Yes He can (Gal 3v13)

if you understand the meaning of curse in that passage then yes, he can be made a curse for us.

Can someone who is by nature God be numbered with transgressors? Yes He can. (Isaiah 53v12)

yes he can because to be numbered among transgressors does not you a trangressor make.

So can the manifest presence of God depart from Christ when He was numbered with transgressors; and made sin and a curse? Ofcourse yes.

no sir. The presence of God cannot depart from someone who is God, Go cannot stop been God, he cannot lose his divinity. The manifest presence of the divine cannot depart from the divine. It is almost the same as saying human nature cannot depart from a human being, It is not possible for human nature to depart from a human being, so also the divine presence cannot depart God (Jesus) it is not possible.

And you're right I don't believe in the trinity; there is no trinity in the bible. Three persons in one God doctrine is false.

Jesus is God and the Father is God. And the Father is the God of Jesus. That is what the bible teaches.

i can live with that, you believe Jesus is God and for now that is enough for me whether you call it a trinity and say the holyspirit is also God or you call it a dulity with d father and Jesus is not the bone of this discuss.
If Jesus is God as you say then he can't lose the divine presence, that presence is a consequence of his nature, just as a human being can lose his human nature.

It is not together that the Father and Jesus are God.

And that verse 24 doesn't contradict the fact that God forsook Jesus on the cross.

From verse 22; the tone of that Psalm changed -from lamentation to praises. And it depicts the eventuality of what happened after the Father accepted the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.

Its clear the Father didn't forsake Jesus for ever. Christ sacrifice was accepted and He was eventually raised from the dead by the glory of the Father.

Verse 22 said - I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregration will I praise thee.

When did we become the brethren of Jesus? It was after He rose from the dead.

John 20v17 -Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God, and your God.

We became His brethren after He rose. That's why I said; from verse 22 depicts after His sacrifice was accepted.

It was at His resurrection that the Father heard Him. But Jesus was forsaken on the cross. Verse 22 onward was after the price was paid by Jesus and His sacrifice was accepted.

you want to bring in some othe sematics, all you need to do is read the bible, what does ps 22:24 say?

For he has not despised the affliction of the afflicted and he has not his his face from him but heard him when he cried.

Sorry the context is clear, this isn't after his suffering. The bible say he heard him when he was crying, he didn't cry after the resurrection, he say he did not despise his suffering, he says clearly he did not hide his face. The context of that statement is quite clear and immune to sematics.

I hope you are aware you didn't answer the question of the post you quoted. Since you hold that Jesus suffering was a display of the wrath of a vengeful God how do you explain the fact that Is 53 teaches that his suffering was "by oppression", since you hold that his father was punishing him do you also hold that his father was oppressing his.

trustman:
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3. Romans 4:25 "who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification."
Cf Romans 8: 32a “He who did not spare his own son but gave him up for us all” Notice; ‘did not spare’ – spare from what? Notice; ‘gave him up for us all” – gave him up?

he gave him up to suffering and death, he didn't spare him from these ordeals. Nowhere does that passage say Jesus was recieveing wrath.

Weah96:
Did you just say that martyrdom is a precious thing to God? Hmmm. This is exactly what Boko have been trying to say for years now.

i guess it is not beyond you to confuse issue.

Blowing up yourself and others as a form of "holy war" is senseless murder not to mention suicide.

Matyrdom is a totally different thing, to die a martyr is to bear witness to you faith, love or hope with you live. To give your life willingly for what you believe or to give it for another.

The story of maxmilian kolbe comes to mind as he gives his life literally for another in hope of what his faith promises, that is martyrdom. Jesus bearing the injustice of men and thus meriting "blessedness" on behalf of sinners is a death out of love.
That is a pleasing death.