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Papist:
Wow. I'm from Zimbabwe and we have only one chapel in Avondale offering the Traditional Latin Mass. And they are SSPX.

wow! Really?

There is a FSsp chapel in Orlu Nigeria, there are usually a few masses in Lagos. The SspX are also around, there are about 3 chapels in and around enugu, there is a mass centre for sspx in abuja, asaba, in even togo and ghana. I advise people i know to stay away from the Sspx, some of their priests are good preachers and u wouldn't know they are in schism.

thoth:
Yes i had, infact my wife first read it and in anger directed me to read it as well.…since we were talking about Francis here let's take Pope Francis' Evangelii Gaudium as a test case,( Chapters 2 and 4 precisely)

How would the Vatican Bank score if judge on those same proclamations ?

yeah the vatican bank, many bad transactions have been accredited to it making popes concerned, that is why the bank has been a constant point for about 4 papacy. The vatican banks and account have been cleaned up, if you follow the news you will know that the bank was recently reformed and all accounts checked in accordance with global financial best practices, i believe the vatican bank will be about 90% clean if u wanted to judge it.

what concrete efforts has the Vatican done to fight against such evils ?

I fought in three continents, non was my country, I am used to propaganda, written words which differs from the truth and actions of the ENEMY which only serves to deceive or disrupt the people's counter actions. Only fools follow the same expired tactics over and over.
All those publications are deceptive, destructive ,unrealistic and just CHEAP PROPAGANDA at best.
show me a popular struggle that the Catholic church has assisted,given a voice or taken the Vanguard on.

oh! You want the vatican on some political struggle and movement. The vatican is a religious institution, have you seen the buddist or hindu monk support political movements? The vatican has done more than most religious institution in promoting peace.

Pope living in her Mansion and telling poor people to be obedient ,submissive, don't retaliate or stand for your rights, wait for God, he is coming tomorrow.
please just answer any of those questions please.

so you prefer he tell people to go out and kill everybody they don't like, or as you say cause mayhem.

thoth:
So this meaningless BS is enough to pacify Nigerian Catholics despite all the atrocities going on around you guys. Are you going to wait for PEACE or are you going to rise up and cause Mayhem for those whom has destroyed your future and now destroying the future of your children ?

do you somehow prefer mayhem to peace?

Africans should be ashamed, how many times has the Pope shown his displeasure against the international Bankers, the whole world knows how unjust the US imperialists wars of the last two decades are but how many times has the Vatican condemned it ?

i seems you don't follow the news!

Pope johnpaul was among the earliest voices to condemn the u.s iraq wars even before they began, benedict continued to request that diplomacy in the isreali hamas confrontation, actually fracis was instrumental in ensuring there wasn't a u.s syria was, so if you ask me the papacy has been codemning wars for the last 20yrs even the nigerian-biafran wars didn't escape its eyes.

As for international bankers, read up caritatis in veritate and francis's exhortation as papist said.

How many times has the Pope condemned your corrupt leaders ?

I am just ashamed to be a black man.

so you want him to go about condemning each political officer? Sorry the church isn't in the business of condemnation especially when politics is involved.

johnydon22:
I love pope francis and his views not a traditional catholic pope, he is moving with the tides and evolving with the present time...He is a good man

Francis is as much a traditional pope as any other. He is a bit lose with words but he is as much a traditional pope as his predecesors.

Tolexander:
Pope, please help us to tell them to stop collecting bribes and envelopes from the politicians.

do you have evidence of catholic bishops taking bribes from politicians?

VcStunner:
Pope Francis aii? Issiorait....... A̶̲̥̅♏ a stunch catholic (a traditional one though). So I don't really buy his views most times. Vatican 11 council could be my reason, but wher ever d peace comes from... Its quite welcome

so you don't share the view that there should be peace in Nigeria and that bishop should be true peace maker?


Since you claim to be a "traditional catholic", i think i should ask you, have you ever attended the beautiful tradentine mass? I have, severally and i Know the eucharistic prayer there prays for peace, if you do not share these sentiments then i doubt you are a catholic at all.

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adeniyitheprof:
MARY, THE MOTHER OF GOD?
Please, for once be truthful to your conscience and study the follwing with your own level of Bible knowledge and what you know about HYPOSTATIC UNION.

(1) In Luke 8:19-21, Catholics do ignore this part of the Bible.
Your understanding of what happened in these verses will tell you the rationale behind the Human and Divine Natures of God.

Here, Jesus Christ acted as God. His mother and His brethren could not come close to Him, may be because of the crowd listening to His words. So they had to send someone to Jesus to call him. The Bible says "desiring to see thee" and this means they were not there to listen to His words but may be they wanted to see Him for an important matter.

If Mary is the Mother of God as claimed by the Catholics, Jesus should have left the crowd to answer the call of his earthly mother or better still, he should have sent someone to tell them to wait till He finished.

I am sure that even the crowd would be surprised of His response to such a call from His mother and His brethren.

Jesus said: "My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it". Wow!!!

Just imagine this great response from Jesus. Jesus did that because Mary had already played her part of the script and let Him do His major assignment that He came for.

Yes! Mary is the mother of Jesus but she could not control Him as she herself knew that Jesus is not just human but a Messiah that whole of Israelites including Mary had been waiting for AND she also knew that she only found favour in the sight of the Lord to be used by Him as a channel or carrier of Jesus in the womb. If you are working for God now, it is a special privilege, grace or favour from God.

"Play your part and leave the rest to God" is the guiding principle for every man or angel or prophet used by God in and off the Bible.

(2) In Luke 11:27-28, this is another verse in the Bible which the Catholics do not like to read at all.
What happened in these verse is like as if Jesus knew that some people like the Catholics may start soon to praise or worship or exalt Mary who was just a player of the Script of God.

Verse 27: "...Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked".

The quoted words above are the words of a certain woman who lifted her voice among the company.

On the contrary to the proclamation of that woman, in Luke 11:28, Jesus said: "...Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it"

Just like what He said in Luke 8:19-21 without mistakes, He openly rebuked the statement from the woman.

He said: "Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it"

how i wish you can see me as i write this, i am tryingg to hide the fact that i am smiling at my phone.


You just became a heretic by contradicting yourself....

YOU previously wrote the following...

The Communicatio Idiomatum
A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin
for "communication of properties" ). This is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to
the one person of Jesus.


All things are ascribed to one person, not some things to his human nature and other to his divine nature, you have divided Christ into two, you have violated the communicatio idiomatum, by your own testimony you have contradicted yourself.


All other points you raised were well answered by syncan

Adeneyitheprof, i hope you can understand the English you wore below.

So next time you start expounding catholic doctrine read well.

The Communicatio Idiomatum
A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin
for "communication of properties" ). This is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to
the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was
made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from heaven (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus; therefore, the attributes of the divine
properties were claimed by the person of Jesus.

Both properties are claimed by one Person, Mary gave birth to Jesus i.e. One person who is both God and man, she didn't just give birth to a human Jesus, she gave birth to a person called Jesus who is God, she gave birth to God. She is the mother of God.

Nowonder the first place the doctrine of the hypostatic union was first define in all it strength was in the council of ephesus, the same council also declared Mary mother of God.

loveroftruth:
What should be the wise thing to do when a doctrine is not supported by scriptures ?

Or not even stated in the bible but propounded by men.

Should it be: manage the doctrine and teaching and tell oneself that it is well or to take decisive action and do away with such doctrines or teachings not consistent with the bible ?

Should the fear of God not push one to take decisive action ?

reject whatever is contradictory to scriptures, but make sure it is really contradictory and you are not mistaken.

Daniel058:
The CATHOLIC PRIEST
A man chosen among the people! He lives a lonely life without wife and children! All call him father, yet he dies childless! He bears someone's name as surname, but no one bears his! He prays for all, but only few pray for him! He came from a generation, but he dies without having his own generation! He live in beautiful houses, yet non is his own! O Lord', my God, please bless our priests for your namesake, they abandoned all and followed you. In their unworthiness you choose them, please never allow them to be led astray, Amen. Always pray for our Priests

amen!

Syncan:
Read and learn. Stop being Ignorant with pride.

...We also have to take into consideration that when Mary was told by the archangel Gabriel "Behold, you shall conceive in your womb, and bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus" (Lk 1:31), he also added that this was to come about because "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the Holy one to be born shall be called the Son of God" (Lk 1:35). By stating it in those terms the archangel declared to Mary that God would enter into a marital relationship with her, causing her to conceive His Son in her womb, For "to lay one's power <(reshuth)> over a woman" <(Targum to Dt> 21:4) was a euphemism for "to have a marital relationship with her." Likewise "to overshadow" (Lk 1:35) by spreading the "wing" or "cloak" over a woman was another euphemism for marital relations. Thus, the rabbis commented <(Midrash Genesis Rabbah> 39.7; 3.9) that Ruth was chaste in her wording when she asked Boaz to have marital relations with her by saying to him "I am Ruth you handmaid, spread therefore your cloak ( literally, "wing": over your handmaid for you are my next-of-kin" (Ruth 3:9). , another Aramaic-Hebrew word for cloak, is derived from = shadow. Thus, "to spread one's cloak <(tallith)> over a woman" means to cohabit with her <(Kiddushin> 18b, see also . Did not the Lord say to His bride Israel: "I am married to you" (Jr 3:14) and "your Maker is your husband"? (Is 54-5:5; Jr 31:32)? And what is more intimate than what the Lord said to His bride: "You developed, you grew, you came to full womanhood; your breasts became firm and your hair grew... you were naked... and I saw that you were now old enough for love so I spread my cloak over you... I gave you My oath, I entered into a covenant with you and you became Mine, says the Lord God" (Ezk 16:7, 8 ).

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TALMUD.htm

adeneyitheprof hope you have been educated?

Syncan:
Third week of lent...how far? I don't know, but I feel like am a moving magnet to temptations this period of lent, occasion of sin just seem to be numerous now...or is it that am more conscious of them now, one thing is sure though, am now more convinced that am as weak as weak can be, so remember Syncan in your prayers.

Good morning brethren, a splendid day ahead to you.

my lenten failure start on the first week of lent so i feel u dear.

when you are weak then you are strong. God's power is manifest in your weakness.

adeniyitheprof:
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

It is not catholic teaching but Biblical teaching.

not close enough,

the quote in your post wasn't from the bible it was from athanasius.

adeniyitheprof:
MY FINAL REPLY TO YOU SIR:
It seems my undiluted delivery of God's messages via the Bible references really pained and still pains you.
However, no apologies for that because they are not my words but God's who dwells in Heaven

The God of the Bible whom I serve diligently does not use double standards. You really need a Bible Teaching Class. It really shows to me again and again via your replies the effects of Catholic Church not holding sunday schools or a Indepth Bible Teaching Class or does not preach the indepth details of the scripture.

Please, do not use EARLY CHRISTIANS again as you used it above but rather replace it with the Early Catholic Members.

I asked a lady a question. Are you a Christian? To my utter amazement, she replied: "I am not a Christian but a Catholic". Catholics are not Christians because they often exalt and praise Mary very far above Jesus whom the Bible describes as the only Saviour. This abomination will be exposed later by the grace of God.

Let me give you some ASSIGNMENT which will really help you:

Make sure you study your Bible very carefully with the help of the Holy Spirit (but not with the help of Mary whom the Catholics do describe as the SPOUSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT....Hahahahaha! Wonders shall never never end ooo).

However, if you have not confessed your sins personally to God (but not to a priest - anti-Bible doctrine practised by the Catholics), not accepted Jesus Christ of the Bible into your life, not been baptized by immersion (but not by sprinkling of water which is against the Bible teachings on WATER BAPTISM and which the Catholics have been practising for a long time period), then you need to do all these before you will encounter the amazing power of the Holy Spirit just like the way Mary (God's servant) herself sought and received this Holy Ghost in Act 1 and 2.

Now the assignment:

(1) Why was God grieved in his heart (Gen6:6) despite the fact that He saw everything He made was VERY GOOD in Gen1:31? Your understanding of this question will help in Question 2

(2) Why did God decide to destroy all his creatures (Gen6:7) except for Noah and his household (Gen6:?

(3) Do you know what the ARK OF GOPHER WOOD made by Noah represents in the New Testament? (I have painstakingly delivered here the message of the New Testament's representation of BRONZE SERPENT AND ARK OF COVENANT)

(4) Do you know why we have Two Testaments - The Old and the New Ones? Why not one?

(5) Do you know why the New Testament is called a BETTER TESTAMENT OR COVENANT in Hebrews 7:22, 8:6?

(6) Do you why we have Hebrews 8:7? Let me quote it for you here: "For if that FIRST covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the SECOND" (Remember that Jesus, but not ram, is the Mediator of the Better Covenant)

Whether or not you choose to answer the above questions, this will be my reply to you on this topic. This is because I have to attend, offline and online, to the available and willing souls (but not the hardened souls like that of Pharaoh and His Host) so as not to waste time as time itself is running very fast and the devil is lurking around looking for whom to devour.

GOOD NIGHT SIR AND GOD BLESS YOU!!! AMEN

you simply dodged the points i raised, the fact that scriptures show a right way to use images.

I think you are scared of the truth and you prefer to falsely accuse the catholic church of all sort of things.

An2elect2:
Idolater, twister of the truth. Pick up the scriptures and see how it condemns your blood-sucking religion.

Ever since you joined nairaland, many warnings have come your way. But because of how evil and proud your heart is, you have refused to heed. You have turned your false belief to the truth.

Its time someone shout you up from your slumber.. idolater.

Repent! the Kingdom of God is at hand.

Repent idol worshippers you have no place in the Kingdom of God.

i see you don't even know Christ whom you claim to preach.

Have a nice day.

adeniyitheprof:
Jesus took a human body to save our bodies.
And he took a human mind to save our minds.
Without becoming man in his emotions, he could not have saved our emotions.
And without taking a human will, he could not save our will.

Besides, when Jesus was tempted by the devil, he exhibited here His human nature by applying the word of God to subdue the temptation from the devil. The lesson learnt here is that we should always apply the word of God when we face any form of temptation. However, there is no way you will use what you don't know. You must study and practise the word of God before you use it.
If not because of the human nature of Jesus, people would have had a lot of excuses before God like the reason why they keep falling into temptation is because Jesus came in His Divine nature alone. What I am trying to explain here is that Jesus, at some points in the Bible, is called the Son of God but somewhere else called the Son of Man. Jesus, at some points in the Bible, is prayed to but somewhere else He prayed to His Father.

Hebrews 4:15-16 says, "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need" (NKJV).
Talk about having friends in high places. The Bible is saying that you are not serving a God who is disinterested in you. You are not serving a God who doesn't know what it is like to literally walk in your shoes. So you can go boldly to the throne of grace and find grace to help in time of need.

Jesus Christ, who was God in human form, never lived for a moment outside of the perfect will of God. He never gave in to a temptation. He never had an impure thought. He never did one wrong thing. He never displeased His Father in the smallest matter. He was flawless. He was sinless. He was perfect.

So why did Jesus come to earth as God in human form? Was it to give us the ultimate teachings ever? No. Though they were the greatest teachings ever given, He came here for more than that. Did Jesus come to set the perfect example of how a man or woman should live? He came to do that and much more. Did Jesus walk this earth merely to do miracles and heal people? While He always reached out to people in need, that was not His primary purpose.

[size=20pt]"The Son of God became a man that men might become sons of God." [/size]God became a man so that you might become God's child. Now that is something worth celebrating.

i hope you are aware that the quote above is from st Athanasius. You are really borrowing catholic teaching

adeniyitheprof:
As I said before that any doctrine that is against the true teachings of the Bible is a deception or lie from satan himself. 90% of the CATHOLIC DOCTRINES are practically against the totality of gospel of Christ Jesus and they are lies from satan HIMSELF.
Most of these doctrines tend to exalt and praise Mary far more than Jesus who was present at the creation of this world and whom the Bible declares THE WORD OF GOD.
The Christians preach the gospel of Christ alone for the salvation of dying souls but the Catholics are practically preaching the anti-Bible teachings and doctrines of "Catholic Mary" (whom we don't know but surely not the Mary of the Bible). Because the Catholics and the Christians have similar doctrines now, so you want the Christians to give praise to the Catholic Church? Kamari!!! God forbid!!! but rather we will give praise to the Holy Spirit, THE INTERPRETER of the WORD which dwells in us.

this just shows you know very little of catholic doctrines, there are over 100 dogmas in the catholic church, only 4 of them are about mary so how can you claim that 90 percent of catholic doctrines are exalting mary above Jesus. That is a false accusation, a lie, God doesn't condone lies.

And yes, the doctrine of the hypostatic union is a catholic doctrine defined long before protestanism started.

Protestants can be funny, first they condemn the catholic church then they go and teach catholic doctrines.

adeniyitheprof:
The answer is CAPITAL NO. Trace God's anger as per idol worshiping to the command from Him unto Gideon, King Josiah (who was the last King to please Lord God), and many others in the Bible.

Remember the King Jeroboam, whom God put on the throne but later blackslided from the God of Israel by making, praying to and worshiping an image made by men and it is on record in the Bible that His reign is the worst ever.

When Pst. Chris Okotie (though not his church member) said something in newspaper about Catholics going to Hell, most of you almost crucified him and telling him not to judge. Statistically, Catholics are billions in number and BROAD IS THE WAY THAT LEADS TO EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION.

MY FINAL SUBMISSION TO YOU ON THIS THREAD:
Read the following very carefully:

If anyone who bows down before the images of Mary and praying to her, as a queen of heaven and he/she does not repent from this abominable or blasphemous act before death, whether or not you believe it, no amount of R.I.P. written or prayers and praises offered to the person here on earth after his/her death will save him/her from the greatest danger, greatest agony, greatest torments.
This is because our God is really a JEALOUS GOD who detests very seriously the graven images worshipping.

I am not judging anyone here but revealing the hard biblical truth which I will stand to give account of on the day of judgement as Bible says so.

Seeing people saying that Mary is a FEMALE GOD surely entails that there is a great and a serious problem concerning the roots of the church and that is why the non-Christians are finding it hard to accept Jesus Christ.

I need no other plea or god, for it is enough for me that my Jesus has died and resurrected. HALLELUJAH!!!

BRACE YOURSELF FOR ANOTHER LONG STANDING FALSE TEACHING, TRADITION OR DOCTRINE IN RCC NEXT WEEK MONDAY BY THE GRACE OF GOD. The list of heresies in RCC is too massive and rooted and it is only God that can deliver.

so your God uses double standards right? He taught isreal and even the early christian that there is a right way to use images but now teaches the new age protestants that there is no right way of using images?

Instead i say, the word of God stand for ever, there has always been a right way to use religious images, and God taught to the jews and this was continued continued by the early christian.

So what you are teaching is an heresy, the bible says in the latter days false prophets and heresy will arise, you are holding a later day heresy.

People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make
them, on the two ends of the mercy seat.
Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one
to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by
the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.
Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim."

The Religious Uses of Images

During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8– 9).

One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.
Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s
mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the
instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children.

Catholics also use statues to
commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three- dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.
If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then by using these "graven" images, they would be practicing the "idolatry" of which they accuse Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but
he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs,
paintings, and all similar things would be banned. But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows, God does not even forbid the ritual use of religious images. It is when people begin to adore a statue as
a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they named "Nehushtan", the righteous king
Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).

What About Bowing?

Sometimes anti-Catholics cite Deuteronomy 5:9, where God said concerning idols, "You shall not bow down to them." Since many
Catholics sometimes bow or kneel in front of statues of Jesus and the saints, anti- Catholics confuse the legitimate veneration of a sacred image with the sin of idolatry.
Though bowing can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. In Japan, people show respect by bowing in greeting (the equivalent of the Western handshake). Similarly, a person can kneel before a king without worshipping him as a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may
kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t worshipping the statue or even praying to it, any more than the Protestant who
kneels with a Bible in his hands whenpraying is worshipping the Bible or praying to it.

holyfamily:
And so maggots like tartar9 empiree and tola9ja will open dem smelling mouth to say islam is pissful. Dey shld better ve a re-tink and stop deceiving demselves, muhammed (disaster be upon him and his followers) is a bastrd for bringing such plagues into dis world. He will rot in hell, and also his bloody pigs known as his followers. I piss on muhammadz grave and farts on a.llahs fvcking face!

i would advise against generalisations and condemn all forms of sterotyping. There are good muslims, do don't use the bad example of some to condemn all.

Happy birthday dear ones. RIP to the dead.




Runing through....

An2elect2:
Repent, haters of truth, haters of Christ, haters of the bride of Christ!

Repent, you that is drunk with the blood of the saints and prophets!

Repent, you that place your traditions over the Word of God!

Repent, you hypocrites, who charge widows money to get their loved ones out of a place that does not exist aka purgatory!

Repent, you that worship the creature and despise the Creator!

Repent, you that bow down to the works of your hand!

Repent, you that call yourselves a name not after Christ, but after this wicked world aka catholic.

Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand!

Fear the one who said, heaven and earth, will pass away but His Word wont! And He will judge all men by this Word!

Repent, idol worshippers our God is a respecter of no man and a consuming fire.

Repent idol worshippers you have no place in the kingdom of God!

st paul says "season your words with salt", this is an advise it seems you do not adhered to.

You do not speak like a Christian at all, all you've been doing is calling names, throwing accusations and tantrums as though you are an infant in the ways of Christ.

Even the person you are criticising and labeling and insulting is still better behaved than you.

Are you sure you have even had an encounter with Christ? are you sure u have the holy spirit in you? Because you are full of gall and bitterness, you do not even know how to speak with charity.

Sorry to say but you do not even speak like a Christian.

Stankoko:
I'm thinking about where to categorize u but calling u a theologian will be de last thing. I don't even know where to start commenting because u've already turned de Bible upside down. Where did God show Lucifer the picture of a woman. At a point, u were making a refernce to Isaiah, all of a sudden u began to cap it with Genesis. Nawa oo.. Suffice it to say dat Mary is now ur Savior and not Jesus! Who did this to u?

i believe what the op did is called drawing parallels in scripture, we know lucifer tried to exult himself above God, we also know that God promised lucifer an everlasting enemity with a woman and her seed, and emnity which will crush the head of the ancient serpent.

Draw the parallels and you may very well come to the conclusion the op did.
The first time God talked about defeating the devil in scriptures is in Gen 3:15, if you read the works of the early gospel u'll see they called that passage "proto envangelium", the first goodnews, the first gospel, the first promise God gave man after the fall of adam and eve.

He said i will put enemity between you and the woman, between her seed and your seed, that is the first enmity God made with satan, and it was satan against "the woman and her seed", centuries later isaiah decleared, "a young woman will concieve and bear a son" again it is a woman and her seed that God promised as a sign for salvation. Not just a man alone but a woman and a man. St paul will later teach "God sent his son born of a woman".

So right from the begining of time God had planned that a woman and a man will be the devils enemy. The first adam was first created and then the woman came from his side, God this time reversed it and the new adam will be the son of a woman. It is from the begining that not just Christ alone is satan's enemy but Christ with his mother. This isn't a new teaching, it is found in the writting of Christian from every generation.

So if you are picking on mary then i think you should ask yourself what side are you fighting for because the person who God place in emnity with the woman is the devil.

Who are you fighting for?

mujahid777:
I tire for them o how did the bishop know? too bad they died in vain,even thou their(Isis) action was unislamic they have more chance of salvation than the christains whose fate is sealed for eternal damnation "in fact, Allah does not forgive ´shirk´ _ (an act of
associating others as equal to Him). Baring that,
He may forgive anything He wants, and
whomever He pleases. The one who commits
´shirk´ has indeed invented a singularly sinister
sin!" " Say: "Shall I tell you whose labour will all be vain? They are those whose efforts have been wasted
in the life of the world while they thought they
were doing good(Qur'an)

so allah is so forgiven to murderers and they will go to paradise but he will condemned the murdered to hell because they believe Jesus. Your God must be twisted, no offense meant.

Demmzy15:
When Muslims were expanding into Europe, they were stopped in France in the 8th century. The first Crusade was called by Pope Urban II about 200years later, when Muslims and Christians lived peacefully. They captured Jerusalem in 1096AD,before they captured Jerusalem they laid seige on Marra. They then entered the city and there was famine, they resulted to cannibalism, they started eating the dead bodies of Arabs(Muslims and Christians) and turks!! Are these the individuals, you should be proud of?!

The war between Muslims and the Roman empire all started when they wanted to end the Muslims during the time of Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam), you even lied when you said the Crusade was called because Muslims killed pilgrims??!! My friend the Crusaders were ones who stopped Muslim pilgrims when they(Crusaders) captured Egypt, they stop Muslims who were going to Mecca and killed all of them!

There was freedom of religion in the Muslim Jerusalem, no one was denied pilgrimage. In fact no one paid for pilgrimage, when Muslims tried to take over Christian or Jewish sites they were punished! To try to show that Muslims are the bad guys, here is a link showing modern Christians apologizing to Muslims for the Crusaders actions http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1996/october7/6tb090.html#bmb=1

since you have resorted to inaccuracies, allow me to correct you, the muslims and Christian never lived peacefully before the crusade infact in 1009 the muslims distroyed the church of the holy sepulche, that is the church built on the burial tomb of Jesus, the site of his ressurrection.

You also forgot to add that the muslims were fighting within themselves , infact the seljuq conquest was killed as much muslims as he did Christian and jews. Seljuq conquest and occupation of Palestine(c. 1073–1098) was a period of
"slaughter and vandalism, of economic hardship, and the uprooting of populations". Indeed, drawing upon earlier writers such as Ignatius of Melitene, Michael the Syrian had recorded that the Seljuqs subjected Coele-Syria and
the Palestinian coast to "cruel destruction and pillage".

So that is what the muslims did, they will busy killing their enemies and each other, killing, pillaging, vandalising, distroying.

My dear, i believe that there were excesses even in the crusades, but the muslim ruler were no better, they were a group of men happy to kill each other, oppress and muder both jews and christians.

Demmzy15:
Let me teach you some history lesson, Spain was of course inhabited but not by Christians. The Islamic empire of Spain was established by one of the the Ummayyad Princes by the help of the Moors! Muslims owned Spain, but we're driven out the Christians in the 15th century. Spain and Grenada were Muslim lands, we had some scholars from Spain like ibn Hazm Al-andalus.

Sorry to break it to you man.

You've gat your history twisted. Spain was formally known as iberia, it was part of the roman empire, its monarchy were converted to Christianity. When the Roman empire fell the visgoths attack spain followed by the muslims. So sorry to bust your bubble spain was first Christian even before the islamic attacks.

When Muslims were expanding into Europe, they were stopped in France in the 8th century. The first Crusade was called by Pope Urban II about 200years later, when Muslims and Christians lived peacefully. They captured Jerusalem in 1096AD,before they captured Jerusalem they laid seige on Marra. They then entered the city and there was famine, they resulted to cannibalism, they started eating the dead bodies of Arabs(Muslims and Christians) and turks!! Are these the individuals, you should be proud of?!

The war between Muslims and the Roman empire all started when they wanted to end the Muslims during the time of Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam), you even lied when you said the Crusade was called because Muslims killed pilgrims??!! My friend the Crusaders were ones who stopped Muslim pilgrims when they(Crusaders) captured Egypt, they stop Muslims who were going to Mecca and killed all of them!

There was freedom of religion in the Muslim Jerusalem, no one was denied pilgrimage. In fact no one paid for pilgrimage, when Muslims tried to take over Christian or Jewish sites they were punished! To try to show that Muslims are the bad guys, here is a link showing modern Christians apologizing to Muslims for the Crusaders actions http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1996/october7/6tb090.html#bmb=1

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Spain



i think you should go back to your history class, you've gat it backwards.

When muslims conquered Jerusalem rome didn't react, infact when the muslims were advancing on constantinople there was a council in florence where the greek christians asked the western Christians for military help even at that it didn't come because they said the east was pretty far from the west. Constantinople fell and there was still no reaction from the west.

Go back and read why the west reacted! There was a masacre of western Christian on their pligrimage.

kay1one2:
The crusades were not a christian mission. Killing however seems to be an islamic mission as thats what mohammed did. Christ asked his followers to preach!

actually the crusades were a Christian mission, agreed to by all or most and sundry, preached by christians and their pastors. It was a period when the church and state acted together.

The crusade is as much a Christian affair as they are secular.

Demmzy15:
You lied, the Muslims established Spain and Grenada. The Crusaders were bloodthirsty fools who killed all their way, they killed many Arab Christians(thinking they were Muslims), wiped out Jewish villages and killed Muslims!!!!

The reason for Crusades was that Muslims occupied Jerusalem and they want to clean up the land! Lol, they claimed to clean up but they committed atrocities against man, they even went to the extent of eating dead bodies!

No one should be proud of that, I can't be proud of murderers who claim to fight for Islam but kill indiscriminately. Women, children, infants weren't spared! Timur a so-called Muslim killed millions, but no Muslim is proud of that. He wanted to be like Genghis Khan, he killed Muslims, Jews, Hindus. Let's be reasonable!

corrections, spain already existed before the muslims came, there was already a Christian civilisation in constantinople and many other cities before the Islamic conquest.

The crusade were a response to the islamic conquests, the arabs and the ottoman empire was constantly trying to subjugate all the cities on its way and turn the lands into Islamic caliphate, some islamic rulers were "just" and tried to consider everyone others weren't, jerusalem was conquered and later held by the sarecens, so was constantinople by mohamed II, then spain and most eastern Christian cities. This insatiable islamic conquest made a Christian Kingdom to fear for their lives even the pope in rome knew he wasn't safe but simply contributed to the tension the muslim conquest had coused, crusades were called after a group of arabs masacred a group of pligrims on their way to Jerusalem, that was the straw that broke the carmel's back and precipitated the crusades.

The crusade were warlike and like most wars there were abuses, really disgusting things were done and i won't try to defend whatever atrocities were commited.

But yeah, the crusade were a reaction to the insatiable conquest of the ottoman empire and its associates.