₦airaland Forum

ijawkid: what about revelation 1:5-6 where Jesus still calls the almighty "MY GOD" in heaven.....??...



ABI u forget?...



your explanation up there is never supported by the scriptures...only pagan traditions can explain it....

do not bring your derogatory remarks here pls. point of correction verses 5 and 6 weren't Jesus words but johns so d bolded isn't exactly correct.
do well to read up on the hypostatic union that should answer your question. and as i said earlier this is just one aspect.

My dear op, u have been grossly misinformed, your source is a sedevacatist, which puts him/her as a possible heretic.
The catholic church has nothing to do with illuminati, a new world order isn't talk about by the illuminati alone! A catholic can't be in illuminati. Canon law expressly excomunicate all free masons. Simply put a free mason can't be a catholic.

mumumugu: YOU MAKE CATHOLIC CHURCH SOUND LIKE A FOOTBALL GAME WHERE MEMBERS ADOPT VARIOUS COACHING TECHNIQUE. Smh at op.

u think ur reason faculty is so different from d football game?

Boomark: Please tell us what it means when it is written "the Father is the God of Jesus." and when Jesus calls the Father "my God."

while on earth Jesus took our human nature! By that nature he took he was even less than the angels (heb 2:9). He was a creature like us all, with flesh and blood like us. The guy who created everything is now d thing he created. By his humanity He is thus under his fathers dominion just like i am. He can thus address the father as "my God" becos by his human nature dat is very true.
This is just one aspect.

Boomark: Please what is the REVEALED TRUTH about trinity. Did the revelation say it is still a mystery or do we now know the real truth?

it is revealed! We now know the truth! But revelation doesn't mean we can fathom it. GOD EXIST OF HIMSELF, it is a revealed truth, but i can't really fathon how from all eternity God just exist of himself!

Boomark: Amen

Is Lov... a sis?

i don't know, i usually skip d gender when i read.
Sorry if i made a mistake

Dear bookmark, i refuse to quote most of your comment becos i find some parts of it derogatory.


I'll ask you a question. Simple and direct,
DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS POSSIBLE FOR JESUS TO BE TRUELY GOD AND YET BE "LESS" THAN THE FATHER?
Thank you

Ihedinobi: ^^ Well, if the Bible is Scripture, it's still final authority along with tradition, according to your argument, isn't it?

ok, u've gat an handle on it. I guess d right arguement is "the bible is not the 'sole' authority"

striktlymi: Good evening Ube,
Now I am struggling to catch up! This doesn't happen to me very often! Now let's go back to the basics again please. God the Father is distinct from God the son and God the Holy spirit though they have the same essence, hence the notion of a 'three in one God'.

ok,

The Son prays to the Father who is distinct and he also promised the paraclete who also is distinct from the Son and the Father. These distinct persons can relate with each other without necessarily relating to themselves in the process, yet they are one. And you don't find this kinda 'foncusing'?

it seem you gat a good grasps of d basics, let me give an example, the father alone sends his begotten son, the son is the one sent (d fada is relating to d son without necessary including d spirit). The father and son send the holyspirit d spirit of both of them, it is d spirit that is sent not d father nor d son. (they are numerically distinct.). Yet they all play a role in the salvation of man, a kind of singularity in what seem like mutiplicity.

When you say creation isn't for the Father alone and compassion not just for the son, are you implying that when the Son carry out an activity, the Spirit and the Father take part in that same activity and vise versa? If this is so, can it be said that the Father cannot act without involving the Son and the Spirit? Or the Spirit cannot act without involving the Son and the Father?

usually except in the inner "life" of d trinity, the fada, son and spirit work as a single unit each with its distinct role. Take creation for example, the father is usually called "creator" but d father didn't exactly create, he created everything thru the son, and the scripture say "thou send forth thy spirit and they were created" we see creation is attributed also to the spirit.
What about our salvation, d fada takes a role as d guy who demands justice, yet he is d one who sends d son, d fada initiates our salvation by sending d son, d son merit our justification by his obedience to d fada, since christ in d flesh obey his fada's command even unto death, he became a source of mercy, his obedience distroys d effect of our disobedience, by obeying d father he gave back to God d honor we steal from him by sin. Christ by is sacrifice becomes our peace and our mercy, d fada and son sends d spirit to complete christ work d spirit is teacher and sanctifier ever d "convincer".
Now who is responsible for our salvation? The perfect answer is: "GOD". Because all 3 persons in one God took a role just to redeem us.
They work as one in harmony.

Alwaystrue: Before you start @Goshen, the languages used in your concordance were used to write the OT hence the word 'Prostitute' as has been shown to show someone who is unmarried that has slept with someone he or she is not married to. Do bear that in mind that is why brides had to be virgins and keep their chastity. I expected you to know that.
However, since you are going to give us the NT meaning now, please proceed.

this means you agree with goshen. Unmarried sex is prostitution according to the above.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]ROTFL! [/quote]hehehe

striktlymi: Top of the day to you Love,

I couldn't hide a smile after reading your post...first of, it's been long I saw you around these 'paths'; hope all is well with you?

You need not worry about the 'error' of St. Augustine cause like him, I believe firmly in whatever the Church defines as dogma without doubt just as it was in the time of the apostles.

I know it would be easier to empty the ocean into a cup than to use my frail human faculty to understand the mysteries surrounding the triune God. But c'mon Love, there is no harm in having a chit-chat about some article of our faith in order to appreciate the teaching authority of the Church.

#This is just the first of a series of questions I have

amen! Amen! Amen! Alleluia

Lovethywilbedon: LOGIC and REASON can only take the human person so far. when the evidence ends, LOVE OF TRUTH AND FAITH continues. *Strictlymi* what other explanation do you need? considering the fact that you are a catholic who belives in the MOST HOLY TRINITY. I can see you take fun in repeating the mistake of the Great Theologian "Saint Augustine of Hippo". know this brother, there are things that ara ABOVE and BEYOND human LOGIC and REASON, but that nevertheless, could be belived BECAUSE it is a "REVEALED TRUTH": The TRINITY is this kind of true teaching that comes down to us through GOD'S REVELATION and not our finding it out.

sis you're the best! Our knowledge is defective.
I just feel like screaming "alleluia"

Good evening dear, i also notice some misunderstanding in your idea of the trinity.

striktlymi: Good morning Uben,
Doesn't it confuse you? Wow!!! You would be the first I have come in contact with. When I try to apply reason and logic to the trinity from what we can observe, I come out empty. The ish would be to understand why Jesus would relate to the Father in prayer where in fact he is relating with himself.

the above is an officially condemned heresy, let me explain.
When Jesus prays, he isn't praying to himself, he is praying to his father. The father is numerically distinct from the son and d son is distinct from the fada and the spirit. Simply put, d fada is not the son, the son is not the fada, the son is not the holyspirit and d holyspirit is not the father.
Jesus was praying to his father, not to himself.

Or a situation where Jesus promises the comforter (the Holy spirit) when he has the same essence as the spirit.

yeah each person has his work in our salvation.

Why must Christ go away before the spirit come if they are indeed one and the same person?

they are not one and the same person they are of one essence/substance.

I do believe in the trinity but we really would have a hard time cracking the mystery surrounding the trinity. I do understand that God is unfathomable. He is great beyond comparison! He can do whatever he wants, be wherever he wants, decide to be in more than 3 places at the same time and reveal himself in more than one way but the ish is still WHY??

Why would it (God transcends any s*x) decide to reveal itself in this way? Is it trying to relate it's various natures to mankind? Is it saying that the Father is the all powerful ruler and creator, the God of Justice and fairness who is at the core of the Universe' 'delicate' balance? The Son brings forth his compassion and care for all his creation, it's redemptive nature and it's longing to relate with it's creation in a more personal level in order to guide us to itself? While the spirit brings forth it's nature as teacher, the means where men get consoled and lead in gentle companionship through all ages to the Father?

these are quite beautiful, but note creation is not for the father alone, nor compasion for the son alone.

Mehn, this is harder than it looks!
If God is not exactly a person but a nature, why then do we describe the trinity as "three persons in one"?
Thanks man!

we describe the trinity as one essence and 3 persons. I told you earlier to differentiate substance/essence from person.

The easiest is, never insult the next guy. If you don't think he is honest then there is no need going on with the discussion.

truthislight: tithing has been put to an end in the NT. Hebrew 7.

actually sanai as a whole is now null and void.

okeyxyz: fornication simply means illicit sex. It is not consensual sex between man and woman. As long as they are not cheating anyone or nature(unnatural sex), then it cannot be fornication.

Look up any bible dictionary/concordance. The popular definition of fornication that we all assume has no basis in scripture, it is simply a tradition passed down by the catholic church and adopted by the rest of "christianity"

catholic church don really do hehehe.

Goshen360: New International Version (©2011)
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Romans 3:19

I'm yet to see a single scripture that categorize then 10 commandments as special to other scriptures. It is the law keepers that does that. If anyone here knows where the Israelites gave special preference to the 10 than the others, please show me\us and let every mouth be silenced.

The law in its entirety including the ten commandments was only given to national Israel not to the church of Christ and it was called the 'law of sin & death'. I challenge anyone to show us scriptures that the ten were special than the rest oral laws.

actually the whole sanai covenant is null and void, the written law is part of that covenant. Those "mosaic laws" are allow when they agree with the principles of the new testament.

Boomark: ubene***tus

*thinking of exporting this one too....*

hehehe, u get the money to do am, abi u tink say na by molue?

ijawkid: What fallacy??.......you are the one to show us how and when you a true servant of God started using beads in worship.........

Abi you never hear say make we no follow after the ways of pagans??....

Please how would you differentiate yourself from a pagan??.........eh mr UBE the bead user......

still unable to tell me d essence of worship abi?

plappville: This is unbiblical, the Bible only should be sufficient to salvation. The Catholic church teaches it is not.
Their doctrines are outside the scriture. The last time, I saw in the Adults Catechism on page 52 it reads:,

"Can you learn to save your soul just by reading the Bible? No, because certain things in the Bible can be misunderstood, and because the Bible does not have everything God taught."

Of course, the bible did not teach us to bow before a piece of dead meat. Its a pity how some fellows can be completely blind.

what is wrong with the bolded?

fellis: Yes. Because men don't nag and rant.

sorry if i stepped on your toes,

Ihedinobi: Lol.

Anyhow, now that we've got the definition of the Catholic Church out of the way, we can discuss interpreting Scriptures if you want.

I hold that it is the Holy Spirit that teaches the believer the meanings of the Scriptures. I hold that because the Bible said so.

I believe that believers are useful to each other also in understanding the Scriptures but never in such a way as to usurp the place of the Holy Spirit.

I believe that while one believer may pass on a lesson he has learned to another yet ignorant of said lesson, that other can only accept it when the Holy Spirit within him ratifies it and in fact leads him.into accurate understanding of it by obedient experience.

maybe i misinterpreted u, this is the post that talked about "ursurping"

Ihedinobi: First, thank you, Ube, for your graciousness, it's a breath of fresh air at this point on the thread. However, I think you misunderstood some things. Allow me to explain.
First off, what may have seemed to be hair-splitting over definitions was necessary clarification of the use of terms. I tried very hard to explain but I know that people on the defensive can be extremely obstinate to even elements that are overtly supportive of them.
It was an assumption on my part that the term 'the Catholic Church' and the term 'the Church' as used by Roman Christians were interchangeable with 'the people of God' and 'believers'. So I was confused when I saw it being used in a way that didn't quite fit logically. That was why I asked for clarification. The post containing the questions that triggered that part of this discussion bears witness to what I was requesting.
Until the answers made sense, I kept asking because I meant to make no assumptions. That was why I asked Syncan whether he was saying that his use of 'the church' meant believers and then whether it meant Peter and so on. I was trying to make sure that I understood him, that's all.
Second, I don't remember the part about usurping the place of the Holy Spirit. If you could quote it...

Third, I do not hold nor have I implied, unless unwittingly that there is no teaching function in the Body of Christ. I hold that the Teacher of the Bride of Christ is the Holy Spirit. I have said nothing so far, if memory serves me right, about how He teaches the whole or how He teaches each believer. I have only said that it is He Who teaches and interprets the Scriptures to the people of God.

Fourth, I do not hold that each individual believer is his own teacher. I hold that each individual believer is taught by the Holy Spirit not by any man. I have said that the individual believer can and should prove what any man teaches him by the Holy Spirit within him.

oga italo, i hope you can work with this.

Reyginus: I don't know what you are talking about. The bible is the final authority here.

sorry my dear, for a catholic d bible is not d "final authority", the final authority is the "word of God" and it as come to us thru scripture and tradition.

Kaynee: Its a shame we dont have a good reading culture. Had it been you read through the post you wouldnt have made dat your unconnected comment. Naija people pls read and digest b4 u comment.

and you lack the curtesy to make a discussion! I didnt make an unconnected coment unless ofcourse you missed the topic. The fact that you are busy doing something doesn't mean i'm not, and you certainly don't know me or by reading culture so you lack the necessary knowledge to make the above remark. Reality isn't opposed to tradition as tradition can be real and reality of today may actually be tradition, it therefore becomes illogical to ask a question where reality is opposed to tradition.
And take care next time, don't jump into making general remarks about people you know next to nothing about.
Peace.

Goshen360: ^ Now your turn for hot seat ^ Everyone got their fair share right ?

hehehe, everyday on nairaland my believes are called to question, frosbel, ijawkid, truthislight, bookmark, alexo, barrister, name them. If u are talking about "hot sit" then u've never seen it.

Boomark: You are using this to avoid the questions above but i will answer you.

Jn 2:5
His mother said to the servants, "whatever He says to you, do it."

Was it Mary or the servants that set the 6 water pot of stone before Christ, v6?

Who filled them with water in v7?

You catholics disobey/dishonour Mary. She said, "whatever He(Christ) says to you, do it." Do you people honour that by going to God through Christ when you are in need? Christ never instructed anyone to go to Mary and ask for help. Do you catholics respect her words on this?

No wonder her statue is always crying blood in your church when it should be happy and smiling.

was it the servants who went and said "they have no wine"? A simple yes or no will do.

Pygru: Mary worship,
Praying to decayed meat/flesh of dead saints ,
Idolatry,
etc

and point am out where i for teach am, that is what i said.
I totally deny teaching d above.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]duhh! ofcourse. Ive clearly stated it near my profile.[/quote]well i usually skim past it. I just usually assume that those who do the ranting and nagging are ladies, i also thought frosbel was a lady.

Hehehehe, all the above people will also accuse themselves of heresy, this is funy.

@Ubenedictus,
It is OK. The Holy spirit is guiding us in all truth, we will all understand by and by.

hmm!