₦airaland Forum

truthislight: "ignorant, wrong theories!" are now your words use to described what i have said from the bible.

Well, that is who you are are.



your interest are obvious.

That is why you posted this contradiction here below:



^^^

you interest here are the apocriphals.

And i say that those that cannonise the NT were not stupid. Though you said they are.

You will say all sort of people wrote the bible as an excuses to bring in your apocriphals.

Ah! You will present your contradictory apocriphals as a reason to accept books that have no basis into the scriptures.

If to you God is irrational, then good and fine for you.

But my God is alive and living and will ensure that his words will get to those he wants to save.
Peace.

u wanna explain d bolded!

joe4christ: Are you demented or just being foolish?
Those churches in the book of revelation existed before the establishment of the catholic church, if you can prove the catholic church as the first church then you should be more knowledgable of the fact that it was only established about a century or so after the death and ascention of christ and the death of the last apostle John who wrote the book of revelation.
Those churches existed during the live of John the beloved while the catholic only came to existance centuries after the death of the last apostle of Christ - John the boloved.
So go get your fact straight!

please dont be dumb! The churches mentioned in d bible aren't denominations with different teaching. The bible say "the church in ephesus" ofcuz if ya are not dumb u would have recognised that d above refers to d community of believers in ephesus and not a different teaching from d church in antioch. The present idea dat anyone can make new doctrines and found his own church didnt exist in da early church. Do some research

meshacha1: the Bible is straight on dis, and d truth am sure your conscience bears u witness. be u catholic or not, d fact is dat witout holiness no man shall see d lord. note: idolatry, praying tru anyone except JESUS, is still a sin, and God's commandment still remain the same.

i dont xpect ya to concern urself wit serious discussion! U may continue reading ur a, b, c and 1, 2, 3. D above is an example of a brainwashed person.

truthislight: dont exposed you limitation.

The book of Job was written by moses.
Peace

quaquaquaqua, hehehehe, hahahaha, where did u get that from? Moses?? Hahahaha, just povide d proof.

Now mr enigma has resurrected a dead thread

Enigma: Various discussions on other threads suggest that it is necessary to make a brief comment on one of the points that this thread originally intended to explain but which was left out in view of how things turned out.

The point is about the fact that there really isn't just one canon of the bible as many think and as some like to argue wrongly.

no one claim there is only one canon!!! But i have claim with very clear proof that the canon accepted by the early church councils is ONE and that the said canon is used by the catholic church.

Technically, as reflected in the opening posts, different Christian groups actually have their own particular canons though they are all very very similar in that the corpus i.e the bulk of books are usually the same with differences only about whether to include or exclude a very small number of books which could be just one or two or the most well known 7 deutero-canonical (or apocryphal) books that the Roman catholics retain.

Interestingly, contrary to popular thought the Roman Catholic canon was only finalised in the 16th century (Canon of Trent) which further undermines the false/erroneous claim that the Roman catholic Church "compiled" the Bible.

the canon was officially closed at trent, nothing was added by trent. So yeah it seem the canon used by d early christain council is the catholic canon

The credit for "compilation" and for the earliest canons go to the "church fathers" and others ------ most of whom were not Roman Catholics.

the problem is dat u have created a false dichotomy, none of the "church fathers" identified themselves as protestants! They as called themselves catholics! And d last time i checked ignatius made it clear dat the church of rome "presided in love over the entire church" so to claim they weren't catholic is a lie u wish to tell yourself.

This summary below from (and the table that follows it in) Wikipedia gives an idea of the point being made with this post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Canons_of_various_Christian_traditions

and at the end the conclusion is: catholic bishops in catholic councils compiled scriptures and yet you claim that the scriptures weren't compiled by the catholic church.
It seems u pulled d mat from beneath thy feet.

Obadiah it seems i'm not the only one noticing your jumping skills! U've gat to address it fast, if not u will seem like someone who is simply trying to run away from d truth that stare him in da face by using a distraction. I have said it b4, i'm saying it again, ur jumping skills are commendable but not for long, it won't take time for other's to notice it and consider ya a douche even wen u make a valid point. U've gat to stop jumping or u wont be taken seriously.

seriallink: ^^^Yes Mr. Ube, and the answer is yes! If someone tells me that his or her Church is the only true Church, that automatically condemn other christian denominations, no?

I see, you missed the party huh?

ha! It seems i missed d "beer" i ll take soft drinks.
And yeah wen i say am d one true church, it seem to implies that there is something untrue about d others. Even though i dont enjoy to downgrade oda pipo communities, i have to admit. That a 1 true church is a monopoly

Seriallink it seems on this i will have to heap the blame one you! I'm not suprised that every catholic who came on the thread believes you delibrately, purposely and maliciously misrepresented them and that the thread is trying to insult catholics! The whole problem YOU caused when you claimed "catholics believe non catholic are hell bond" this is more or less insultive, even if it may be a mistake it protray a balant misrepresentation of catholic teaching and most certainly will be regarded as a sentence meant to bash catholics. While i do not wish to dwell on the said sentence since i also consider it a misrepresentation, i think u have recieved enough hitting for that sentence so i'll address the other points.
To the question of the thread, the answer is yes! Catholics consider d church as the one true church built by christ on the apostles and that peter in particular was given the "keys of the kingdom" and that thru the apostles the church has recieved the power to "bind and lose", "proclaim the gospel" and the power to forgive sins in christ names and that the leaders of the church do have a right, a duty or rather a responsible to excercise all the above ministries as d apostles did in their day.
Yeah! The church teaches that she is the body of christ and she is one in doctrine, holy becos christ her head is holy and by his grace continue to make us holy and granting us his righteous, catholic because her mission is universal and apostolic cos the apostles are her foundation. We believe that God used peter as a symbol of unity in da church thus given him the key of d kingdom (biblically d key of d kingdom belong to the prime minister) and thus make him a fore...minister of da gospel and that that office has alway remained in the church. And yeah we believe that all salvation comes from christ and that christ has given d church -his body- as a permanent and effective path of salvation.
So yes i'll say d bible quotation was refering to the catholic church. Big claims they seem! And yeah that i believe.
As regard the part on non catholic, I believe that ALL men who believe in christ Jesus and are justified by faith thru baptism are incorporated into christ's body, they therefore have a right to be called christians and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the lord. I believe the holyspirit can and does work on all men even non catholic. So yeah i believe protestants are part of dat body of christ and are in communion with the catholic church even though the said communion is imperfect. So even though i clearly hold that you and other protestants have rejected, throw away, modified parts of the truth of God i do not claim u are hell bound unless u knowingly and delibrately rejected the truth. That is 4 u and ur conscience!
I believe i aswered ya question.

truthislight: The OT writers were not picked randomly, the writers of the OT were either of the following.

1. Prophets.
2. Judges
3. Kings
4. levites.

God did not pick people randomly to write the OT.

God did not pick people randomly to write the NT.

job doesn't fit this criteria! Thank God this isn't an exam! Lol

I came late

italo: Do most Catholics you meet (or even any Catholic at all) actually tell you they believe other "churches" are hellbound or you are just deliberately misrepresenting our position as usual?

valid question!

obadiah777: THAT EVIL ONE WAS SPECIFICALLY REFERING TO CAIN. I WANT THE HIDDEN EVIL ONE LURKING IN THE SHADOWS

1 JOHN 3 VS 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous <<<<< CAIN. YOU DO ERR

again u are jumping d obvious. The passage says: "not like cain who was of that wicked one" the passage didnt say cain is dat wicked one, d passage say cain is of dat wicked one. Since marwin u have been dodging the fact that d "wicked one" in d passage isnt cain. Obadiah wu is "dat wicked one". Are u telling me d wicked one is adam?

Kay 17: Ok, you are saying its a religious argument before the Church, right? Where does proving the Sun's position come in?

proving d earth moves came in when galileo said the literal meaning shuldnt be used! U have to prove that the literal is senseless before u can advocate that is shuld b done away with. Inability to prove d literal sense isn't the right sense means d judgement wont go ur way!

Logicboy03:


Just shut up.



You disgust me with your dishonesty.

u are d dishonest one!! U dont know and u dont want to know, sumone once gave that statement as d definition of a f**l, d church did have a right to abitrate in matter pertaining to scripture!

Boomark: Yes!
Mt 12:18 (Nkjv)
Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased; I will put my spirit upon him, and he will declare justice to the gentiles.

Rev 5:6 (Nkjv)
And i looked, and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a lamb as though it has been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

The spirit of God upon Christ the servant of God is sent into all the earth. Do you see how Christ is made the High priest and mediator between God and man.

When you pray in the spirit, the Holyspirit aids you according to the will of God. No other spirit is involved in this arrangement by God.

Man pray for man. The Holyspirit is the only perfect spirit that intercede for man. No Mary spirit or st Pauls spirit is needed.

It is a big YES my brother.

very dumb answer! I thought u were wise enough to say no! Since all intercession is wrong unless d holyspirit is d intercessor that means u are accusing d word of God of heresy. 1 tim 2:1, jam5:14-20, 1thess1:2, 1sam12:23, num21:7, phil1:4-6, eph6:18, 2thess3:1, eph3:14-19. I gat more, wen u are thru wit d above just ask 4 more.
Very silly answer!

Boomark: Yes!
Mt 12:18 (Nkjv)
Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased; I will put my spirit upon him, and he will declare justice to the gentiles.

Rev 5:6 (Nkjv)
And i looked, and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a lamb as though it has been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

The spirit of God upon Christ the servant of God is sent into all the earth. Do you see how Christ is made the High priest and mediator between God and man.

When you pray in the spirit, the Holyspirit aids you according to the will of God. No other spirit is involved in this arrangement by God.

Man pray for man. The Holyspirit is the only perfect spirit that intercede for man. No Mary spirit or st Pauls spirit is needed.

It is a big YES my brother.

very dumb answer! I thought u were wise enough to say no! Since all intercession is wrong unless d holyspirit is d intercessor that means u are accusing d word of God of heresy. 1 tim 2:1, jam5:14-20, 1thess1:2, 1sam12:23, num21:7, phil1:4-6, eph6:18, 2thess3:1, eph3:14-19. I gat more, wen u are thru wit d above just ask 4 more.
Very silly answer!

Boomark: I know you will respond this way that's why i chose that translation. See it all here. Using images to serve God=idol worship.

New International Version
(©1984)
"Therefore since we are
God's offspring, we should
not think that the divine
being is like gold or silver
or stone--an image made
by man's design and skill.

New Living Translation
(©2007)
And since this is true, we
shouldn't think of God as
an idol designed by
craftsmen from gold or
silver or stone.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
Being then God’s
offspring, we ought not to
think that the divine
being is like gold or silver
or stone, an image formed
by the art and
imagination of man.

New American Standard
Bible (©1995)
"Being then the children
of God, we ought not to
think that the Divine
Nature is like gold or
silver or stone, an image
formed by the art and
thought of man.

Holman Christian Standard
Bible (©2009)
Being God's offspring
then, we shouldn't think
that the divine nature is
like gold or silver or stone,
an image fashioned by
human art and
imagination."

International Standard
Version (©2012)
So if we are God's
children, we shouldn't
think that the divine
being is like gold, silver, or
stone, or is an image
carved by humans using
their own imagination
and skill.

King James Bible
(Cambridge Ed.)
Forasmuch then as we are
the offspring of God, we
ought not to think that
the Godhead is like unto
gold, or silver, or stone[b],
graven by art and man's
device.[/b]

read those text again and learn. The standard bible tell d story "we shuldnt tink of d divine nature as gold, silva or an image..." the last time a checked no one said d divine nature was like gold or any image! Infact no one attempts to capture divine nature in xtian art! Please again learn to interprete!

[quote author=Atheist:-D]I was being sarcastic. There is little you are going to tell me that I dont already know

Feel free if you want to but i already know how you Catholics love to rewrite history to the tastes of the church .

So to summarise, I would prefer a non catholic history link [/quote]hahahaha, there is no rewritting of history there, whatever i say are provable, even if u want direct source materials. As for a none catholic link i'll see what i can do. The xmax=pagan myth seem to be loved by most atheist even though the myth can't be proved.

advocate666: Jizz-Us was Jewish rabbi conceived through the rape of a jewish virgin bride by an occupying roman soldier. This happened sometimes around 5BC. He was adopted by her mother's husband and learnt carpentry. But failing to get a good jewish girl to love him, being a roman pauper bastard, he went into isolation, studied magic and illusions, and learnt priesthood. He later became a rabbi and used his position to seduce men. Men left their wives and families to be with him. 12 became very close to him and he even had a favourite. He was know to have sudden burst of anger and was prone to violence. He once went on a rampage destroying goods and merchandise of law abiding traders. He was also a favourite with women of easy virtue, and although he ended up with one of them, he didn't marry her because he was so gay. But the worst thing was that he was a very annoying individual that says things without thinking. His mouth eventually got him into trouble and he was nailed on a piece of wood.

it seems u are relating a figment of ya imagination!

[quote author=obadiah777][/quote]obadiah that is what i call silly talk, did God sign in into d bible dat d benin ore xpress way shuld be renovated? Joke

Logicboy03: Ubenedictus, you are dishonest and you know it.


How can you even start to defend the catholic church against Galileo?


You went to read the answer from the biased site called "catholic answers".


Galileo was under house arrest for the rest of his life due to his theory on astronomy.



What gives the catholic church the right to do such? When did they become the judge on science?

the church at least did have a right at scripture arguement! And my answers aren't from catholic answas

Kay 17: To show how badly told your story is, you can't reconcile the role of the church in scientific discussions, you can't explain why bible explanations are caught in scientifc webs?!

ur problem is that you lack undastanding! Galileo and his co scientist stopped argueing science and entered scriptures and that simply means they invited d church

obadiah777: YET YOU ARE YET TO BRING ME THE SCRIPTURE THAT SPEAKS ABOUT THAT ELUSIVE EVIL ONE ? OR DID YOU JUST CONJURE THIS 'EVIL ONE' UP IN YA MIND ? I NEED SCRIPTURES. SCRIPTURE DO SAY 'PROVE ALL THINGS', 'DEBATE THY CAUSE WITH THY NEIGHBOR' 'SCRIPTURE IS OF NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION' ' NO VAIN OPINIONS' <<<<< I NEED VERSES TO BACK THIS YOUR ELUSIVE SATAN

now this is suprising! U are claiming u didnt see the word evil one wen i quoted 1jn3:12! Now 1jn3:12, is d evil one mentioned there or not?

Boomark: Did you ask your self how many handkerchiefs the apostles blessed for the people to use and heal themselves. How many? Let God use you as He will. Sorcery is everywhere my brother even in the church.

To worship God in truth and in spirit, God has given His Holyspirit as your prayer aid. Your prayer aid should not be graven images of Mary, Jesus and lucifer.

Romans 8:25-27
New International Version (NIV)
25 But if we hope for what we do
not yet have, we wait for it
patiently.
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps
us in our weakness. We do not
know what we ought to pray for,
but the Spirit himself intercedes for
us through wordless groans.
27 And he who searches our hearts
knows the mind of the Spirit,
because the Spirit intercedes for
God’s people in accordance with
the will of God.

We do not know what to pray for, we do not even know what our God looks like. But by faith, through the Holyspirit we get connected to Him.

God has already provided a perfect intercessor(the Holyspirit) for his people who intercede according to His will. But the catholics church, wallowing in the doctrine on men presented Mary. Thus fuelling the wrath of God on those that practice it. This very clear, a perfect deviation from the perfect will of God.

Am not judgmental but "rebukmental."

let me get ur point! Are u saying that intercession is forbidden unless the intercessor is the holyspirit?

Boomark: Let me show you what is legit according to the new covenant.

Acts 17:29-30
New Living Translation (NLT)
29 And since this is true, we
shouldn’t think of God as an idol
designed by craftsmen from gold or
silver or stone.
30 “God overlooked people’s
ignorance about these things in
earlier times, but now he
commands everyone everywhere
to repent of their sins and turn to
him.

God has overlooked the time for such ignorance.

In line with worshiping the only true God in truth and in spirit, i will show you how it is done in my next post, not by the use of graven images as aid(this is the doctrine of men) but by the help of the Holyspirit.

again u have failed to interprete scriptures!
It say don't think of God as an idol, it doesnt say to use images!

Hehehe, so palp na woman and e dey ask wether anoda person na woman

plappville: @true2god are you a female?

u want marry am?

[quote author=Atheist:-D]Go for it brother . We all like a good history lesson... Roman Catholic style. [/quote]mr athiest are you still there, i wish to go into d month and day but i would hate talking to myself, please give a response

Kay 17: So the Church dished out judgement in favour of the prevalent views at that time?

not exactly, galileo pleaded for d symbolic reading of those passage and he was asked to provide a substantial prove for his theory, there is an old theological saying that says d literal shuldnt b discarded if it makes sense. Galileo was asked to prove that the literal reading may nt make sense, he couldn't and the church had to rule for d literal cos there is no substantial prove against it!!
The judgement wasn't simply for the prevailent views, it was d inability of d theorist to prove the literal wrong. And d ability of other scientist to disprove galileo. In biblical exegesis, wen d literal makes sense, it is retained.

obadiah777: THE DEVIL WHO HAS SINNED FROM THE BEGINNING IS CAIN. ITS LIKE SAYING IN NIGERIA ' HE WHO STEALS IS RELATED TO ANINI'. THEY ARE JUST BIBLICAL REFERENCES TO THE FIRST EVER MURDERER AND LIAR IN THE BIBLE. THAT IS CAIN.

DONT GET CAUGHT UP IN THE 'ASSUMED IMPORTANCE' OF WORDS. DEVIL JUST MEANS 'DECEIVER'. THATS ALL IT MEANS. THE FIRST DEVIL WAS CAIN. THIS IS WHY HE IS ALWAYS REFERENCED

instead it seems u are downgrading the word of God. The scripture say "cain was of the evil one" yet u claim that cain is d evil one. That doesnt tally, there is an evil one wu cain imitates, it seems u are skipping scripture!

obadiah777: IF YOU HAD GONE DOWN TO VERSE 55 AND 56 YOU WOULD FIND OUT IT IS TALKING ABOUT THE SPIRIT NOT THE FLESH. 'FOR THE STING OF DEATH IS SIN' << <<< WHEN YOU SIN YOU DIE SPIRITUALLY, HOWEVER WHEN THE CORRUPTIBLE TAKES ON INCORRUPTIBLE ( MEANING YOUR SPIRIT IS MADE TO A WAY WHERE YOU CANT SIN, WHICH IS ALSO A WAY OF SAYING THE LAWS WILL BE WRITTEN IN YOUR INWARD PARTS )THEN YOU WONT SIN NO MORE AND NO SIN MEANS NO DEATH, SPIRITUAL THAT IS. THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH.

u again seem to be reading the over spiritual into every passage

Boomark: I wonder where you contacted this thing you want to infect me with.

now dat was funny

obadiah777: participating in politics is part of loving the world

the bible doesn't say this!

isaiah 10 vs 1 <<<< Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees THIS IS WHAT POLITICIANS DO. THE LORD HAS ALREADY PUT DOWN THE LAWS OF HOW THE WORLD SHOULD BE RUN IN THE FIRST FIVE BOOKS OF THE BIBLE. BUT POLITICIANS CREATE THEIR OWN LAWS. THIS WILL BRING DESTRUCTION ON YOU FROM GOD. YOU ARE CHANGING THE LAWS THAT GOD HAS ALREADY LAID DOWN

ur interpretation is not correct. The passage says "woe to does wu make unjust laws and oppressive decrees" it doesn't say "woe to those who make any law"

DANIEL 7 VS 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: <<< THIS VERSE LETS YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO USE YOUR OWN LAWS. YOU CANT CHANGE THE LAWS. THE LAWS IN THE BIBLE ARE THERE TO RUN THE EARTH. SO AS YOU CAN SEE, BEING A POLITICIAN BY DEFAULT EARNS YOU WOE AND DESTRUCTION FROM THE LORD

this is a joke of the decade!! To claim that politics in and of itself is immoral for xtians is a joke, a very big one! There is no passage condeming politics in d bible only those wu make oppresive laws are condemned. Your interpretation in dis area is very faulty and it is clear u aren't matching precept wit precept as u say, politics of itself is morally neutral, u get a woe wen u use it to wrong end and a blessing wen u use it to promote just law.
If i may u ur words i must say "you do err"