₦airaland Forum

PointZerom:
Can you ask those questions they don't ask here?

Seun:
Churches aren’t winning souls, by the way. Just taking souls from each other. Virtually all souls 'won' by churches come from other churches.

Seun:
I just wanted people to be aware that soul-winning benefits churches by increasing their recurring income. It's not an entirely sacrificial act.

solite3:
God bless the deeper life bible church.

God2man:
For the antithers and haters of offering in Churches, the Evangelist or Ushers, Daniel kolenda as he called himself yesterday said that they are not here to collect any offering from anybody, they are here to bless or give to people, however if you want to follow the Kingdom principle of Sowing and reaping, and you really want to give, take your offering to your local church.

Ubenedictus:
my dear you still haven't answered the question


you believe the Church continued after the apostles
died and this church isn't the Catholic Church.
please give me a few names of those none Catholic
Christians from the 2nd century to the 10th century.



since you believe that the real Christians didn't have those practices, then surely you can name them.

Ubenedictus:
it is not a needless distraction.


If you claim the real Church is different from the Catholic Church and exists till our time, then it follows that you should be able to show us these real Christians all through the centuries.


unless you are lying and you have no proof for your claims... which mean you're peddling lies someone told you.

btoks:
Thanks for your response although the development of early christianity  was not as simple as you've stated. Even when the apostles were available,  some groups were already teaching another other gospel.(see 2Peter 2). Heresy was always cropping up and it was very important that christians new which was the true church  (with true teaching) and the pedigree back to the Apostles.


We had docetism/ gnostics who had their own view of Jesus and thought that Jesus was not a real man but spirit. That his crucifixion was just an illusion.

We had Arianism that believed Jesus wasn't divine.

We had Nestorianism with their own view of Jesus as separate man and different from the Divine Son of God.
So many other heretic teachings

If you go back to the early church fathers like Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Irenaeus etc, from the 1st and 2nd centuries, you'll find in their writings that they were pointing christians to the true church which had apostolic succession amongst all the heretical views of the day.  That church still exists today

Ubenedictus:
you believe the Church continued after the apostles died and this church isn't the Catholic Church. please give me a few names of those none Catholic Christians from the 2nd century to the 10th century

btoks:
It's no distraction, we all want to learn where the church that Jesus establised is. Where are the true christians that you've referred ? I'm assuming these people must exist and can be traced to the apostles.

So if we come out of the Catholic Church, where exactly do we go ?

We need clear answers please

Ubenedictus:
sir kindly tell me the members of this Church from the 2nd to 10 century

Ubenedictus:
the Church of Christ can never backslide, unless you don't believe in Jesus who clearly said the gates of hell will never prevail... the Church by nature cannot backslide.... I'm not just telling you it didn't happen I'm telling it cannot happen, Jesus told us so.


if this Church is pagan as you claim then Jesus lied and hell took over, then hell compiled your new testament, which mean your bible is pagan.

that is the natural conclusion from your claim. pagans can only canonise pagan scriptures.

tete7000:
I just checked your moniker and it confirmed the spiritual arrogance I talked about. You call yourself unchangeableGod? That's serious. The blood of those in your immediate family you are yet to convert should be your preoccupation.

gemale:
Yes... Because a true catholic (not just in mouth) has done what Paul instructed in ephesians 4:14 & isn't carried away by charisma, performance, signs & wonders. He/she seeks God whether or not blessings, breakthroughs, wealth, marriage etc comes his/her way. Because instead of hearkening to your seductive words, we do what the Lord advises & look at your fruits. There's little love among you. You guys compete to outshine each other (strife & contention) instead of shining for Christ. So much narcissism is present. Placing adverts with massive billboards where pictures of the preacher is so enlarged. Making it seem as if the MOG is a fount of miracles & teachings instead of being a medium through which God works. Hence, there's a feeling that "Pastor so & so is more anointed than Pastor lagbaja, let me go to Him for prayers. I'm more likely to get answers" . Quasi-deification of men IMO. An average pentecostal is likely to start thinking of changing his/her church at the slightest challenge forgetting that challenges are a part of life. Some people are so spiritually loose that any bit of oratory & sweet talk convinces them that they need to change where they worship because "it no longer works for them". The bible says that signs shall follow them that believe but now people who claim to believe follow signs. The moment they hear somewhere, people get what they desire, they ditch their churches & run there in search of ephemeral things. There is 1 body of Christ, the church that isn't to be divided into sects. That is what a true catholic believes. Look at most movements today. They are focused on the founder/GO. That's why you see a lot trudging to the headquarters even though they have branches close by. When he goes, you start to see cracks, breakaway & tussles even among family members. The church is closely knitted to his family most times. The wife is usually the female leader & the children usually have a post in the church if they decide to become ministers. Because we understand that unity is important than trying to be always be right or wise in our own eyes. Even though the church has been around for 2 millennia, we don't act like we know it all. We realize the hallmark of true wisdom is that no one is a sole custodian of knowledge. We learn that submission & obedience is of great import not just when it's convenient.

SalC:
Yes "in the multitude if counsel, there is safety" is in the Bible just as "confess your sins to one another and pray for one another" is also in the Bible. James 5:16
So whether you choose counselling or confession, they are both Biblical.
The only problem I have with you guys is approving of one and condemning the other just because you feel its not OK by you. BTW people even give more details of their sins during counselling than we do, during confessions. And who says priests don't give counsels or advice during confession?.

tete7000:
Mr. Man be bothered with yourself and your family. Stop delving into things beyond your understanding. Your spiritual arrogance knows no bounds.

Andy2274:
When Catholic Church were having 2 masses, they criticized but now they are having 5 services no complain. When Catholic were receiving HOLY COMMUNION they complained but now they celebrate Communion Service. When Catholic Church had parishes, they complained but they now have parishes as well. Catholic go to confession they grumbled but they now have Counselling session with their pastors. Catholic Church ask for the intercession of Blessed Virgin Mary they criticized and say we should pray directly to God but they always ask their pastors to remember and help them pray for a particular petition......All Na copy copy. Instead of preaching the Gospel they are preaching Church and judging other people.

Ubenedictus:
actually the person I quoted called many names.


this isn't about people who preached and converted others and then backslide. this is about the Catholic Church, what she believe today is the same things she believe then.

if she is fake now then she was fake then,if she is pagan now she was then....that means you are using a pagan new testament.. unless you are using a different new testament from the one the Church canonized then you're using a pagan Bible.


secondly who told you every Christian practice must be found in the Bible?

the Church existed before the Bible and the new testament was never written to catalog every Christian practice....so why do you think the new testament which was written after the Church for the Church must contain all Christian practice?


lastly the Church Jesus founded canon apostatize, Jesus already promised that the gates of hell will never prevail against her.

tete7000:
I am not interested in answering you. Why make other people's business yours? How does who I pray or don't pray to bothers you? Can you love me more than I love myself? When we see God, we shall see who is right or wrong. So oga, leave Catholics alone. First you people say dead don't have awareness, when I showed one Jesus said had, you began to ask me silly question. By the way I have long concluded that discussion with person who started it with me, if you don't have nothing doing, you can go and sleep. Good night.

Neminc:
The Jews wrote the Torah. The prophets and the law. They wrote about the coming Messiah. The promise of the Messiah was made to the Jews but guess what? When the Messiah came, they didn't know him and didn't believe him. So the fact that Catholics may have collated and translated the earliest bibles does not give them superior knowledge of the Bible. In fact, it adds to the irony that the people who collated and translated the Bible are ignorant of the things written therein

tete7000:
But the mentioned rich man too should be dead to the world but seemed to remember and wanted to even interfere by asking for favour for his brothers.

Ubenedictus:
when you call the compilers of the new testament fake what will you say about the books they put in your hands?

tete7000:
You don't show any awareness of the scriptures at all. First Jesus talking to the Saducees made them realise that God calling himself God of Abraham, God of Isaac and God of Jacob when he appeared to Moses at the burning bush implies those three are living as God is a God of the living and not that of the deads. If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are living, how much more the mother of God? You are telling me she is dead?

Secondly Jesus gave a story of a certain rich man and Lazarus (Note this is a story with name mentioned and not a parable). In that story he made allusion that the rich man remembered his kindred and begged Abraham to send Lazarus to go and warn them (Note that there was conversation between Abraham and Lazarus in which the rich man showed awareness of his yet to die brothers.) If Jesus gave this story that a certain dead rich man showed awareness in the grave, do you now know more than Christ himself?
Ignorance you people often display reeks to heaven.

Florblu:
Not anymore

Opakan2:
Easy with the lies abeg..

Obasanjo favoured PDP comprising of mainly North and SE, marginalizing Yorubas

GEJ ran an Igbo only government, wanted to turn North minority. The fool did nothing other than kill them off with fake Bokoharam fight and building of almajiri schools to label them "Poor" when Otueke is there in terrible state.
Even the SE that got all top posts have nothing to show today.

So what are you saying? Be guided biko

OLAADEGBU:
2. The Jewish Talmud (400 – 700 AD)

The Talmud is an ancient record of Jewish history, laws, and rabbinic teachings compiled throughout the centuries, and makes several references to Jesus. As a rather hostile anti-Christian source it is no surprise that the Talmud rejects the divinity of Jesus, and rather attempts to attack his character. For example, we read in Sanhedrin 43a that: “Jesus the Nazarene practiced magic and deceived and led Israel astray.” In it we also read that:

"Jesus the Nazarene was hanged and a herald went forth before him forty days heralding, Jesus the Nazarene is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry. Whoever knows anything in defense may come and state it." But since they did not find anything in his defense they hanged him on (Sabbath eve and) the eve of Passover."

In Sanhedrin 107 we are told that Jesus ('Yeshu') "offended his teacher by paying too much attention to the inn-keeper's wife. Jesus wished to be forgiven, but [his rabbi] was too slow to forgive him, and Jesus in despair went away and put up a brick [idol] and worshipped it.”

The following verses refer to Jesus within the Talmud:

• Jesus as a sorcerer with disciples (b Sanh 43a-b)
• Healing in the name of Jesus (Hul 2:22f; AZ 2:22/12; y Shab 124:4/13; QohR 1:8; b AZ 27b)
• As a torah teacher (b AZ 17a; Hul 2:24; QohR 1:8 )
• As a son or disciple that turned out badly (Sanh 103a/b; Ber 17b)
• As a frivolous disciple who practiced magic and turned to idolatry (Sanh 107b; Sot 47a)
• Jesus' punishment in afterlife (b Git 56b, 57a)
• Jesus' execution (b Sanh 43a-b)
• Jesus as the son of Mary (Shab 104b, Sanh 67a)

To remain as objective as possible in our pursuit to know about Jesus from extra-Biblical sources I must note that many scholars do not look upon the Talmud as authoritative when trying to study the life of Jesus as they judge it far too late. For example, some scholars like Peter Schäfer think that the Talmud gets its information on Jesus from the Gospels, hence is not independent of them, while others like Paul Maier rejects accounts with no mention of the name Jesus.

Maier also discounts those verses that do mention Jesus by name, such as Sanhedrin 43a and 107b, as later medieval changes. However, some scholars do think that information about Jesus can be drawn from the Talmud such as Joseph Klausner, Travers Herford, and Bernhard Pick.

tsdarkside:
look at you...might is always right in this world...better be the predator than the prey...

what makes america or europe different than Adolf Hitler, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, Charles Taylor, Muammar Ghaddafi, Sani Abacha etc...

whites dont believe in to be passive...look today at europe...they dont even practice the religion they brought to africa no more...

tsdarkside:
listen...nobody is holding you back...you see yourself what happens when you dare those in charge of nigeria..

we citizens cant help you even if we want...

declare biafra and go to war the way ojukwu did...oooohh my...and bloody win!!..

if you loose again,then good night....

Throwback:
Keep your sarcastic apology, we would rather you dance to the beats of DJ Python.