naijaking1:

You're allowed to celebrate with the Igbos for their 'jeep-success' No need to wait for a Yoruba jeep. The Yoruba can make airplane, ship, rockets; and they should try. Why should there be another civil war over jeeps?

i was just being sarcastic.lol don't mind me.

How do thousands of peaceful muslims help me when tens of thousands of Nigerian Christians and non Muslims worldwide are continually slaughtered at allah's altar without a cause?

just because the thousands of peaceful muslims don't "help you" doesn't mean you have to stereotype them as suicide bombers.

Or does it not bother you that something as innocent as a cartoon in Denmark would cause a Muslim in Bangladesh to kill a non Muslim fellow kinsman.

when the first cartoon was published, the danish muslim held a public protest and that was it.
it was when the cartoons got published in 50 other countries (the "christians" must have been having some sadistic fun with it) that got muslims all around the world annoyed and led a few of them to act through violent measures.

i wasn't surprised about the result of the incident. i don't agree with the people who decided to act in a violent means but what did you expect?
and can you explain to me how the cartoons were "innocent"?

the connection that came to my mind (no offense) when i saw the pictures the first time, was the pictures i've seen depicting african americans as "coons" in the early 1900s.
if (God Forbid) some pictures like that were published in the papers today (it's freedom of speech right?) http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/picaninny/more/clean.jpg, I'll be surprised if violence doesn't break out. lol nwando, maybe then, you'll be twisting an angry face rather than calling them "innocent cartoons"

we yorubas will have to wait till a "yoruba made automobile" comes out before we can celebrate.
since i guess this one is a "igbo" success.

i hope that when that happens, civil war #2 won't break out over which "tribe"'s jeep is better than which.

nwando:

If indeed the KOran is all about peace,how come those who study it day and night like the almajiris,terrorists like Usama end up wanting to kill ?

How can a medication meant to cure a headache,end up with a side effect of cancer?

no religion is all about peace.
even christianity isn't all about peace.

it all depends on the individual believer.
there are thousands of people who study koran day and night in mosques all over the world too bad only the few popular names of muslim religious fanatics are known to you.

goodnight!

davidylan:

You probably don't know how much work goes into protecting your borders and keeping terrorists out so you can sit at your computer in peace while you expose your ignorance. Where were you when the Germans arrested a set of highprofile terrorists planning attacks in the US less than 2 months ago?


I don hear, islam is not to blame chikena. Are you happy now?

Did you read Osama's Sept 2007 letter posted by Iman? Read it and then tell me islam is not to blame.

lol. you're funny.
let me see, you're a republican. lol.
muslims are scared to bomb us because of the police at the borders? LMAO. why do you even try?


Osama's views doesn't represent the millions of muslims throughout the globe. just as the catholic pope's views don't represent the millions of christians' around he globe.

You're begining to bore me with your round about reasoning expected of a child who still uses a feeding bottle. What has forms of government got to do with this? Egypt is a democracy (at least that's what they claim), Pakistan is a democracy (so they say), Iran pretends to be a democracy, Syria is not a theocracy. . . Lebanon is a democracy, even the palestinians pretend to be a democracy too . . . so what is this nonsense about muslim nations adopting non-theocratic governments?

secular govts
ex.where women won't be forced by the govt to cover their faces, people won't be forced to follow religious rules etc.
"pretend" doesn't make it real.
i'm talking about "real" secular govts. like the US and britain.


anyways, i'm off to go study for my psych. exam tomorrow (if any of the extra info matters).
point is, if islam is to blame, you still haven't explained to me why yoruba muslims aren't at war with yoruba christians (or even why senegalese muslims aren't waging war in christian communities in neighboring countries). i'll leave you to ponder that till tomorrow or even next week (since i don't have much time for this). lol

not to mention that they are being recruited by the terrorists themselves.

and this is England's fault?

nobody said it was England's fault.
the point is: the youths in this scenario didn't become terrorists by reading the koran. they were recruited and taken advantage of in the name of religion by the extremists who saw them vulnerable.
and the point of this is: islam is not to blame. rather, other factors that exist within the society/cultures are.
if it was just a matter of religion, you still haven't explained to me why yoruba muslims aren't killing "innocent" christians.

--->https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/board-16.0.html
click on the like above
post a topic about your problem. i'm sure people will help you.

welcome to Nairaland bitrhyme!!
i don't use a motorolla phone but you can check the technology section out!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/board-16.0.html

davidylan:

Ocho cinco, islam does not rely on ancient history, its foundations for terrorism are in that quran sitting pretty in your library.

this girl must be a dolt. So your idea of "modern day society" includes events that occured 6000yrs ago?

The french police just assumed the ethnicities of the youths involved in one of france's most violent protests? Go and read for your GED.

we are talking of cultures and religions are we not? rather than events.
most religions are ancient but are still practiced today. does that mean that christianity should be modernized?
unless you're saying that muslim countries should follow a non-theocracy like the westerners and adopt a secular form of govt which contains no religion. This is what i support.

the ethnicity of french blacks are MOSTLY northern african. so the rioters are therefore, mostly northern african. this doesn't require a lot of brain power to figure out, Monsieur Davidylan. even the french immigrants from other parts of africa tend to be muslim.

davidylan:

and how many of these rap artists are wearing suicide bombs and hijacking aircraft in the name of outrage?

rap groups in the US aren't muslim.
muslims in France also aren't suicide bombers. a high percentage of them are regular everyday muslims who live in ghettos and are in the working class or unemployed

Just a very "tiny percentage" in Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Holland . . . these "tiny percentage" must have a very efficient way of multiplying themselves. It is ignorant people who desperately try to belittle the threat that militant islam poses to modern society until it ends up at their very doors.

when was the last muslim suicide bombing in these countries? and how frequent do they occur?
just because the media exaggerates the extent and is biased against Islam doesn't mean that you should make claims as such.
what percentage of muslims do you think (in your assesment) are suicide bombers?

Nonsense! and there have been plane hijackings over the centuries and suicide bombings and rocket attacks and threats of genocide and the genocide occuring in Sudan and . . . .?

huh?! what are you trying to say?

davidylan:

How relevant is it to the modern day society? It reveals the depth to which islam has sunk if we need to dredge up 6000 yr old scenarios to excuse islamic violence. Maybe the muslims should think about moving to that era and leave the rest of us in peace.

define "modern day society."
people in the west also believe that Africa as a whole is backward/ unmodern and wasting their money. why else would they be infected with diseases and poverty, wars and be needing foreign aid.

modernity is defined according to european and american standard. we should live up to their standard of modernity.

there are marginalised black youth in other European countries and yet they don't firebomb themselves in the name of protesting. Why is this a uniquely muslem response?

protests in france is not in form of bombing. mostly riots. of course there can be some non-muslims involved. it is just assumed that they are mostly muslims because most blacks in france are muslims.
the rioting were mainly as a result of inequality.

1. Please kindly tell us when and where these arabs/asians where discriminated against.
2. Is this discrimination any worse than the racism blacks have had to face for centuries? Why are blacks not killing everyone in sight considering EVEN asians and arabs discriminate against blacks?
3. Is anger the sole preserve of the muslim youth? why are they forever angry? From France to Lebanon, England, Pakistan, Holland . . . muslim youths are always looking for the slightest opportunity to be angry . . . why?

1. trust me, discrimination/ racism is not unique to US alone. i don't need to quote websites to tell you that minorites of color are discriminated against in most white countries.
3. If you listen to rap music, the contents should show you why minorities are discontent. the rap musicians aren't making stuff up the stuff in their songs show the daily realities of their lives. it is not every muslim youth in Europe that is violent. it is just a very tiny percentage. (same with muslim terrorists) ignorant people unfortunately assume all muslims to be suicide bombers.
2. the asians and arabs in europe aren't "killing everyone in sight." what are you talking about?
there have been riots here and there just as blacks in america have rioted here and there over the centuries.

The muslims in France claim marginalisation as a reason for their uprising, but that begs the question. Other blacks suffer racism too, why are they not firebombing the rest of Europe? Why are the muslims only the ones to erupt in a rage?

the blacks in france are mostly muslim (north africa is mostly muslim).
i don't blame the minorities in France for their uprising. I infact support it to an extent. they live in ghettos (HLM) over there with little chance for upward mobility.
even the magic system (you're not a teenager so might not be familiar with the group ) made a song about it.
any people who live in that type of condition (i don't care what religion), i will be surprised if they don't protest.

davidylan:

and has anyone used the old testament to threaten your existence? My brother this is 2007 not 6000yrs ago, if you have nothing better to contribute then go and sleep. It is too late to be drinking palmwine.

it might be "6000 years ago" but it definitely is relevant to this discussion. it was a theocratic government. just as many muslim countries still are.
all wars, violence etc have to be waged in the name of "God" unless the govt becomes more secular and adopts other ideologies to justify their violence with.

You go on to claim that the problem is one of "indigenes vs settlers". That brings me to wonder, Lagos and abuja are the most ethnically diverse cities in Nigeria and YET there has NEVER been any record of religious violence in those 2 cities. Does that make sense to you?

there is no record of widespread religious violence in Lagos because the muslims there are mostly yoruba. unlike in the north where they are christian igbos.
igbos and hausas never had much in common to begin with. this is aside from religion.

abuja is the political capital of Nigeria. God forbid if it adopts sharia. Abuja should be one the most secular of the muslim states in the north. But this doesn't mean there haven't been religious violence in Abuja. remember the beauty pageant and the violent riots over it?

davidylan:

Your quote is in bold. . . read it again . . . any casual observer would come away with the impression that the violence in France and Britain was a problem of black africans of immigrant descent.

1. While the terrorist crisis in Britain has been primarily an arab/asian problem, that in france has been a result of muslim youths who incidentally are from former muslim french colonies.

1. why not ignore the first sentence in my post then and focus on the most important part: the second one.
why are the muslims uprising in France? is it because of religion? what is your opinion on it?

arab/asian descents in Britain are being discriminated against too. many of the youth join terrorist groups as a way to outsource their anger. not to mention that they are being recruited by the terrorists themselves.

2. No where do you indicate such. Learn to accept that you don't really know much, stick with the forum games.

can you refer to a passage in my post where i claimed to "know much" ?
and what is going to happen if i decide not to move to the forum games?
do you "know much"?

davidylan:

@ WesleyanA, all these quoting of articles do nothing but expose your naivette and ignorance.

Many of us have had families and friends who lived in the north, many of us have lived in the north before. Dont sit in the US in your comfortable, liberal living room quoting pages of articles written by an equally ignorant foreign observer.

can you point out at least 3 things that you found wrong with the articles? point out what's false in it. I challenge you (and don't just point out a snippet either. there are many big arguments in the article. debate one of those)
you lived there doesn't mean you know more than the experts about there. at least you haven't proved to have.
and who told you that the article authors aren't nigerians who have lived in the north and even studied the situation as part of their job. the analysis makes all the sense in the world. anybody will agree with that.

do you not think that if the muslims were fighting christians all over the world just because "allah said so"
don't you think the yoruba muslims will be fighting the christian counterparts
don't you think the terrorists would have bombed churches rather than a financial building?
don't you think they would have bombed a more conservative christian country rather than the US that isn't even all that religious?
why do you think they target christians? there are other religions in the world. they should have bombed some buddhist temple in India.

when did i mention the problem in England as a "black african problem"?
this was my quote:
most of the black africans in Britain and especially france are immigrant descent. there is wide spread violence in France from northern African immigrants and the blacks in general. burning of houses, vandalism, killings etc

The vast majority of French immigrants are from former french colonies who are predominantly muslim nations - Mali, Burkina Faso, Algeria, Morroco, Tunisia e.t.c.

wasn't this what i said?

[b]In Kano new ethnic categories (“southerner,” “northerner”) arose when southerners, particularly Igbo, began to threaten economic interests of the far-flung Hausa commercial empire based in Kano. [/b]The policy of northernization, adopted by northern elites during the late 1950s, sought to open jobs for Hausa in commercial firms in Kano; gain greater access to government contracts, civil service posts, and financial services; and reassert control over produce export. The fear of losing out economically heightened the sense among northern indigenes of marginalization. Northernization established the predominance of politics over economics, which made political competition at the national level a matter of primary concern. Nothing in the four decades since independence has lessened these concerns.

Some liberal Muslims are generally opposed to a nonsecular form of government and the implementation of shari’a. The parallel governance structures—traditional and elected—are less cohesive than they appear initially.
Many northern politicians have supported the so-called shari’a movement through personal conviction, political opportunism, political realism, or a sense that they should represent the wishes of those who elected them.


This poses a constitutional problem because the Nigerian constitution guarantees a secular state, guarantees freedom of religion, and vests in states concurrent power to establish their own court systems. At both constitutional and practical levels, these guarantees are incompatible in light of the fact that Islam rejects separation of political from religious authority and proposes a unified theocratic system of governance.


Despite these differences, Muslims in Nigeria’s North can act together in a disciplined manner when they consider it politically necessary. But groups and leaders in each state also pursue their own agendas, including relationships with Christians. In some traditional chieftaincies (e.g., Katsina and Gumel), relationships between Muslim political and religious leaders and Christians appear better than in others. Some Muslim and Christian leaders have sought to engage in peaceful dialogue, and there would appear to be real opportunities in this area that should be exploited.

Part of the resentment felt for “settlers” (members of southern tribes, as opposed to “indigenes”) residing (and often born in) Kano stems from indigenes’ feeling that settlers are simply in Kano to make money. Settlers are perceived to be unwilling to adapt to the culture of Kano and to reject the values of Kano’s indigenous population. Indigenes see settlers as failing to commit or contribute to the community in either material or nonmaterial senses. On top of this, indigenes believe settlers look down on the indigenous Kano population. To some extent, Muslims feel marginalized on their own turf, which fuels their sense of grievance against the southern Christian settlers in their midst.

In Kaduna in February-May 2000 over 1,000 people died in rioting over the introduction of criminal Shar'ia in the State. Hundreds of ethnic Hausa were killed in reprisal attacks in southeastern Nigeria. In September 2001, over 2,000 were people were killed in inter-religious rioting in Jos. In October 2001, hundred were killed and thousands displaced in communal violence that spread across the Middle-Belt states of Benue, Taraba, and Nasarawa.

The predominantly Christian Tarok farmers consider the mostly Muslim Hausa cattle herders as outsiders, and accuse them of stealing land and trying to usurp political power. These had led to the burning down of 72 villages over between 2002 and the end of 2003. More than 1,000 people were killed in sectarian clashes between Christians and Muslims in Jos, the Plateau State capital, in September 2001.



http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/nigeria-1.htm

another article that discusses the motives behind the conflict.

so as you can see from the article, the reason for the "religious violence"
has more to do with the differences between the people.
this is the reason why yoruba muslims get along with yoruba christians. the live on their land, share the same cultures etc.

in the north, the case is different. there is argument between indiginous inhabitants vs settlers. religion is used as a tool to mobilize people etc but it doesn't mean that they are fighting because "allah says so" (refer to article in previous post)
if that was the case, the yoruba muslims and christians will also be at war with each other (it's a purely religious conflict right?). even the senegalese muslims will go to neighboring countries to fight christians.

i currently attend a school where there are people from all different religions and background and the only way to avoid conflict is to downplay your religious views and keep a secular/balanced environment so that one view won't be clashing with the other. ex catholic christian vs protestant christians ; atheists vs christians and muslims etc


here i'm talking about conflict and giving my school as an example.

again my post was a reply to Uchenna's.
and the radio show was focused on the london bombings. Uchenna already pointed out the koran school in Kano, if you need to refer back.

The issue of discrimination equally applies to Black Africans in Britain and France yet none has gained notoriety for religious violence.

most of the black africans in Britain and especially france are immigrant descent. there is wide spread violence in France from northern African immigrants and the blacks in general. burning of houses, vandalism, killings etc

the reason for this violence is probably the same reason for the violence in london (except religion is used as a justifier)

-------
article on violence in Kano/ analysis of the cause


In the central region that lies between the mainly Muslim north and largely Christian south, armed Muslims on February 24, 2004 killed more than 75 Christians in the town of Yelwa, at least 48 of them inside a church compound. Then on May 2 and 3, hundreds of well-armed Christians surrounded the town from different directions and killed around 700 Muslims. They also abducted scores of women, some of whom were attacked. Both attacks were well-organized, and in both instances, the victims were targeted on the basis of their religion.

One week later, reacting to reports of the Yelwa attacks, Muslims in the northern city of Kano on May 11 and 12 turned against Christian residents of the city, killing more than 200. In addition, police and soldiers deployed to restore order in Kano carried out dozens of extrajudicial killings themselves. The victims included people who, according to eyewitnesses, were not even involved in the violence.


The report provides background information on the causes of the violence in Plateau State and explains how a localized dispute between ethnic groups competing for political control, land and economic resources turned into a fully fledged religious conflict, extending well beyond the boundaries of the state.


“Both Muslims and Christians have realized that religion is an extremely effective way of mobilizing large numbers of people,” said Takirambudde. “Local leaders on both sides have cynically manipulated religion with disastrous consequences.”

At the heart of the conflict is the distinction between “indigenes”—people who consider themselves as the original inhabitants of an area—and those whom they view as “settlers.” The concept of “indigeneship” has been exploited and used to discriminate against those termed as “settlers.”

“The Nigerian government needs to remove the distinction between ‘indigenes’ and ‘settlers’,” said Takirambudde. “As long as this distinction is given official recognition, the potential for further conflict remains.”


Nigeria: Religious Violence Fueled by Impunity
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/05/23/nigeri10993.htm
read the whole article


like i said earlier, the main reason for the violence has nothing to do with religion. there are other number of factors to it that you guys probably understand but refuse to accept.

I think u are rite. Add also the lack of education (enlightment) and u have the perfect environment for this kind of scenario. When u go to most places in the north u would not believe that this area had held power more than any other region in the country. The political elite just keep the resources all to themselves, they send their children to good western schools but then passively or actively discourage the masses not to. Most people are encouraged to send their children to koranic schools , hence the origin of the almajiris (students in the koranic school). These are the guys that usually carry out most of the mayhem in any religious crisis. The alhajis brainwash these guys and they take to the street destroying lives and properties.

@Uchenna,
Very true but unfortunate!!!
I was listening to an NPR radio talk show (it was looking into the psychology of terrorists etc) where they mentioned how a lot of this terrorist use poor young children (youth/ teens) as their target.
Many of these kids are easy to convince. They are poor muslims who live in countries where they live in poverty and are being continuously discriminated against (Britain, France) and when these men target them and brainwash them to terrorize "in the name of Allah," they agree.
They mentioned how it is easier to use vulnerable people (poverty, minority status, age, etc) to carry out violence.
The terrorist feel as if they are fighting for something/ feeling of inclusiveness (reason why there are many gangs) even though what they are doing is horrible.


It's the same strategy Hitler used to carry out his evil. he targeted young kids and created a youth program to brainwash them.

when you mentioned the koranic schools for the poor uneducated kids. It brought that to mind.

You guys are sick.

close your 32 teeth and don't get too excited. I was replying someone's post (not yours!)

Religion and politics have been so intricately entwined in the north that u actually can't tell where one starts and where one ends. Thats what makes it so difficult.

this is why one of the only solution is for religion and politics should be separated in the muslim countries. but i don't see this happening anytime soon.

there have always been problems when religion and politics are entwined. even in christian countries!! (most have separated the two is why we don't associate christianity with much violence anymore.)

Bush (a christian) declares war in the name of "Democracy" and bombs as many countries as he wishes.
If muslim countries did the same, their bombings will be justified. j/k


A large percent of the Republican party is made up of conservative christians. these people support the war against Iraq.


more like "Politics at Work"

best case scenario: he survives this incident and creates a smash hit record out of it!!

texazzpete:

I might be wrong, but i coulda sworn that Bush never claimed he was waging war on Iraq to envangelize 'em and spread the good news.
as i remember he called it a 'pre-emptive strike' and a 'war of 'liberation'. Hardly christian stuff.

Please, can't any of you marshal good arguments without falling back on the Iraq war?

"redemption" or liberation doesn't have to carry a religious connotation.
the US have a history of trying to "liberate" others. (religously at first, but US is more secular now than in the past so religion can't be used as a pretext for invasion anymore)
and islam right now in the US is almost synonymous with barbarism (just like traditional african religions during the precolonial times). i guess the US wants to spread "civilization"

i was just making an association but it turned out that i misunderstood uchenna's post in the first place. so it's all good.

@Uchenna, oh my mistake. je suis desole

i have never heard of mai tasini. what was the story around that?
i don't really expect change anytime soon either unless something revolutionary (at most) happens.
is there as much of a northern population in the south (ie. hausas in the south) as there is a southern population in the north (igbos and yorubas in the north)?
there weren't many northerners in the south when i lived in Nigeria. but i hear there are many southerners in the north. this can be a potential reason why there is more conflict up there.

the north also has religion as a large part of its politics and society as a whole so it would be harder for a christian to live in the north than for a muslim to live in the south where the laws are modeled after British laws and therefore free from religious constraints/ secular. (if nigerian christians created the laws themselves rather than getting ideas from the west (esp britain), southern nigeria will probably be some Salem right now 'cause we are a really conservative and religious people)
the north however has a lot of it's laws based on the koran.
i don't know if this makes sense to anyone but it makes a lot of sense in my mind. just don't know how to articulate it.

creating some sort of "separation of church mosque and state" in the north will be one way to solve conflict.

plus, this might be much insignificant but there is correlation between poverty and level of violence in general.

there are so many factors to be considered why the situation is the way it is and i guess that's the only way to find a solution is to know the causes of the problem.



what i don't like is how some of the post on this topic suggest that northerners are inherently barbaric.

sylvao2000:

hmmmmm am sure your dad will kill someone who try that anyway how old are you that you just have to worship someone for just ipod nano, or you want to worship two God

an ipod nano really is very expensive!!! that's like half a month of my salary gone.
way too much for a 10 yr old.

i was exaggerating about the worship part.

Uche2nna:

LMAO


As much as I hate to admit it, I am seriously begining to think that our northern neighbours are beyond redemption

and we southerners are the ultimate redeemed.
we should spread our redemption to them like the US is doing in Iraq. those uncivilized muslims.