₦airaland Forum

nairalanda1:
Therefore...Christians bad.

That's why I don't care.

There are far more complicated reasons why Nigeria is not developed than 'We pray too much'.

"We pray too much" is in fact the most important reason for Nigeria's underdevelopment, and the statistics presented in this thread confirmed it. The amount of man hours and resources spent on prayers in Nigeria is enormous. If we expend the same energy on knowledge, skills and productive work, we would be a first world nation just like China.

Moderate amount of prayer would not have much negative impact of production and development, but excessive prayer as done in Nigeria is antithetical to development. In Nigeria Christians have church activities act least 5 times a week, whole Muslims go to mosques or prayer grounds 5 times a day.

There are two types of societies - faith based and knowledge based society.
Faith based societies consists of churches/mosques/shrines, priests, juju, prayers, witches, spirits, etc., knowledge based societies consists of libraries/research centres/museums, scientists, inventions, gadgets, etc.

Faith based societies send people on pilgrimages, knowledge based societies send people to the moon and other planets.

Faith based societies are almost always poor while knowledge based societies are almost always wealthy.
There is alway a war between Faith and knowledge within each society. When faith wins poverty and ignorance prevails, but when knowledge wins prosperity and enlightenment takes over. Good examples were Greece during the golden age of plato/socrates and aristototle, Egypt during the time of the Ptolemaic dynasty, and Europe during the renaissance.

Angelfrost:
But I didn't insult you... I am not the person who quoted you there.

I'm merely interested in the earlier part of the post which is a good discussion and teachable point.

I agree with you about the aspect of people using insults... It's just a shame. I have had my fair share of insults.

Honestly, I have lost count... Right now, I think I have grown a thick skin for it.

Apologies. I thought you were the same moniker spewing insults up and down. I just quoted your post without looking at the username.

About your question about religion before slavery and colonialism; yes our ancestors were theists (and in fact at that time 99.99% of people in the world were theists) but the brand of theisms was not the violent, exploitative and forcefully imposed variety. Our own religion was tailored towards helping us understand and cope with our harse environment and challenges. That's was why a tribe never imposes its own religion on a neighbouring tribe, not to talk of a neighbouring country or race. Even the Jewish religion from with Islam and Christianity got their roots was a tribal religion, they never tried to impose yahweh on neighbouring canaanite tribes, their conflicts were mainly fights over pastoral lands within the desert.

The Roman Christian religion and Arabic Muslim religion was a political tool, a political tool for conquering and controlling other people's and races, so much so that the battle line became Jerusalem and southern Europe. In Africa, the Muslims conquered Africa - all the way from the North to the West until the European coming from the coast stopped them. At the end of the day the Muslim ruled northern parts of most countries in west Africa while the Christians ruled the coasts.

Religion was an effective weapon (even more effective than guns) in the colonalisation of Africa.

Angelfrost:
Let's pretend that the insult is not there...!

Please, answer his question... Prior to colonialism and neocolonialism, were our ancestors Atheists?!!

It's a very good question... Blaming every issue in poor and underdeveloped nations on religion kinda borders on close-ended and narrow reasoning.

I cannot forget the insults is not there. I have been on this forum for a very long time and I have had serious differences of opinions with lots of people including the owner seun, I have never been personally insulted.
I don't want to go down that path of trading insults with anonymous people on line due to differences of opinion, so kindly ignore my posts and I will ignore yours. I am sure there are plenty others that will enjoy trading insults with you.

blueAgent:
Before the Europeans came with their religion, were our forefathers Athiests?

MUMU

Why the personal insult? Did I even quote you?
You brand of theism must be very violent and evil for you to be so angry at those who don't even know you exist.

backbone503:
The difference between Nigeria (and some under developed and developing nations) and the advanced nations is that: while we largely submerge our lives into God, they put God into their lives.

They forced God on our lives. Religious is the most potent element of slavery and colonalisation. Even after physical slavery was abolished, psychological and mental slavery persists till today. We are slaves both to Arab and European Gods.

NothingDoMe:
Prayer is good. BUT we don't deal righteously in Nigeria. Righteousness is what exalts a nation.

Absolute rubbish. Hard work, honesty, the rule of law and patriotism exalts a nation. Prayer is just wishful thinking without any basis in reality. Its just a physiological device to keep the poor
abused and exploited masses hopeful, docile and controllable.

DeepSight:
I think the 15 years requirement is with regard to cognate experience - which simply means related experience in the similar field and is not tied to time spent in the specific security or law enforcement organization. Other than this the only other requirements are specific - (1) He must be serving in a security or law enforcement agency - and he is - and (2) he must be the rank of ACP or its equivalent. In such a matter, there can be a civilian equivalent of such a rank. Even military ranks have civilian equivalents in bureaucracy. That's what I am pointing at.

Please see the attached PDF as an example.

As regards my disappointment, it arose from your selective quotation of the OP - for while denying any cognate experience, you deliberately left out the portions that detailed same. At the minimum the honest thing to do would be to acknowledge them and indicate why you found them unsatisfactory. Instead you just pretended they were not there or you didnt see them.

PS: There hasnt been a President I find more distasteful, criminal and reprobate than the current one, just so you know.

There is no evidence Olukoyede Olanipekun has 15 years cognate experience in financial crimes. We don't even know his specialty in law? What type of law did he specialise on? How many cases has he handled and won? As chief of staff to the chairman and secretary, he was not directly involved in the legal cases.

It is very saddening that we allow sentiments and politics to becloud our sense of justice and even morals in Nigeria. We seem to have forgotten why EFCC was set up by Obasanjo. EFCC was set up to go after political and appointed office holders who steal the country blind and keep us in perpetual underdevelopment and slavery. EFCC under Obasanjo arrested and prosecuted many high profile politicians including a serving IGP. The only flaw of Obasanjo's EFCC was that he was a bit selective in his prosecutions. He went after politicians who did not support his third term agenda. Nowadays, EFCC only goes after Yahoo boys in commando style. Imagine EFCC going after romance scammers like they are going after Osama Bin laden. EFCC are not longer interested in actual economic and financial crimes like Political office holders, patrol subsidy thieves, crude oil thieves, etc. They waste all their resources going after small boys.

Now back to the topic at hand. You did not answer my question; what is the rank of Olukoyede Olanipekun? You don't need to tell me about ranks in military, police or civil service. My Mum retired as a federal civil servant. What rank in the civil service do you assign to the new efcc chairman. An assistant commissioner of police is equivalent to grade level 14 in Nigeria's civil service structures, did Mr Olukoyede Olanipekun attain grade level 14?

What you are insinuating is that the EFCC act is meaningless and that anyone can be appointed EFCC chairman. All the president has to do is appoint the person to any political office for a few months or years and he automatically becomes eligible to become EFCC chairman.

DeepSight:
My goodness, how could you quote from the opening post and deliberately ignore the relevant portion that answers your own query:

It me that don't expect you to be defending illegalities and I am highly disappointed. I honestly did not expect you to join the bandwagon in spewing propaganda without bothering to present evidence.

Mr Olukoyede is a seasoned lawyer with expertise in compliance management, corporate intelligence and fraud management.

Provide evidence of this your claim. I searched the Internet looking for Mr Olanipekun Olukoyede's educational and work background, I found very little information. The only information about his work career is that he was chief of staff to Ibrahim Magu before he was appointed secretary to the EFCC. Before that he was said to be a lawyer under the chamber of Vice President Yemi Osinbajo. Nothing else.
His educational background is even more nebulous. This is all that was written; "he had his university education in Lagos State University; University of Lagos; Institute of Arbitration ICC – Paris, France and University of Harvard (Kennedy School of Executive Education". We have no information about his primary school, secondary school, degrees obtained, certifications obtained, nothing. For someone in such a high profile office, we expect more details.
Is this the bio data he will submit to the Senate for confirmation?

He is a certified fraud examiner who has led investigations and civil litigation of fraud and financial crimes in International development projects.

He equally specialises in anti-corruption research and analysis, corporate and business intelligence gathering and processing.

Still no details whatsoever, just some generic sentences that could have be written by chatGPT.

He is a member of the Fraud Advisory Panel (UK), [/color]and also a member, of the Federal Government Technical Committee on the Repositioning of the Nigerian Financial Intelligence Unit

What does mean? Is the fraud advisory panel a Professional body that advises UK on fraud and fraud cases? How did he become a member when he never practiced in the UK?

I truly don't expect that of you.

Secondly this is actually not a requirement of the law. The requirement is simply that he works for a security or law enforcement agency and is of a certain rank. And he meets those.

As u said I also didn't expect this from you.

What do you mean by this is not a requirement of the law? The law specifically stated security or law enforcement agency and rank of ACP or its equivalent. This should mean that the person must be or have been a career officer that rose through the ranks, and not a political appointee. So what's the equivalent rank of Olukoyede Olanipekun that is equivalent to an assistant Commission of Police.

Besides how many years was he at EFCC? As chief of staff to Ibrahim magu and secretary of EFCC, his total time with EFCC cannot be more than 8 years. So, even if we are to stretch the EFCC act to include political appointees, Mr. Olukoyede Olanipekun still does not meet the 15 years experience required by law.

jacobs2015:
It's obvious the major sinister motive of all these western agencies is to impoverish, dehumaize and render Africans redundant, hopeless and helpless.

America's World Bank advised our govt to remove subsidy and like a magic, the economy would bounce back, knowing fully well that lack of funds was never due to subsidy payment, but just to make life harder for us.

Now the twin sister of World Bank is telling the FG again to increase taxation as if the consequence of subsidy removal was not enough, now encouraging the govt again to implement another hardship advice.

No international agency has the genuine progress of Africa at heart. All is smokescreen with stupid analysis to bamboozle us.

Meanwhile, IMF will not talk about the monumental corruption in all facets of government.
IMF is blind on the expenditure profile of government which spends 70% on recurrent and a miserly 30% on capital (half of which is stolen anyway)

IMF does not see bogus salaries and allowances of the politicians, its only subsidy and taxes of the poor they are obsessed with.

bewla:
If you take that into equation then I can only speak of my country Nigeria

I believe there are others who are far worst then this

Please name other countries that young boys are arrested arbitrarily on the streets, hotels and bars and then locked up until they either "bail" themselves or open their phones for police to search through.

Which other country uses life bullets to control protests and even riots?

Which other country practices a legal doctrine of guilty until proven innocent.

Which other country will the courts accept evidence illegally obtained by the police.

Nigeria's human rights records is in the same league with China, North Korea, Russia and Saudi Arabia.

bewla:
I think most of this francophone are behind each other then we the English speaking said

If it about francophone and anglophone how come Ghana had 179 votes? Abi there are 179 anglophone countries in the world?
Since tribal sentiments cannot work here, you decided to use phonic sentiments. Nigeria's human rights records under this so called democracy is atrocious. You think the world is not aware of the gross human rights abuse by EFCC, where they break into people's house at mid night fishing for crimes on people's phones and laptops without a search warrant, many people locked up in various cells for months if not years without taking them to trial.

Aemmyjah:
Olodo
In order for you to believe your phone has a Maker, you must know where he came from?
You think backwards

A phone does not have a maker, it gas many makers. From design stage - there is a team of designers, to components that comes from many suppliers and manufacturers, to production where many people are involved in the production process.
Even the invention of the phone was not just a single person but numerous contributions from many people over the course of many evolutions.

tolue42:
In all honesty, did the registrar said he got it from one of there vendor yes or no??

The registrar did not commit himself. He said it is possible he got it from third party vendors, those you can Google online.

pineed:
I tell you. When CSU affirmed Tinubu's status, the matter ended!

Which Tinubu did CSU affirm? Bola AHMED Tinubu, Bola A Tinubu, Bola Adenike Tinubu or Bola Adekunle Tinubu?

Raskimonojendor:
Forgery only exists in the mind of the obidients and Mikano generator boys.

They would soon tell us that BBC has been paid
£800 Billion by Tinubu.

From the sworn affidavit you posted, where did the CSU registrar get the name Ahmed from? All the documents presented by CSU bore the name Bola A Tinubu. The transcript submitted by CSU had Bola A Tinubu. Even the admission letter and credentials from Southwest College bore Bola A tinubu. But the registrar swore an affidavit that the official records of the university reflects and verify Bola Ahmed Tinubu Graduated and was awarded a degree. Is that not perjury, where did he get the name Ahmed from?

Aemmyjah:
If your mentality makes you think that the universe is a product of mere mortal man or humans, I'm not surprised
... Mentality get levels

But your own mentality makes you think that the universe is the product of a super immortal man or human . I am very surprised.

DeepSight:
I understand that. However I think your co discussant will see things differently in that for him, matter is one thing only, and non material things exist beyond matter.

The universe being matter and non material things existing beyond the universe.

Please explain to me the meaning of non-material things. Now if you mean non matter, then i would understand, but then matter itself is just one manifestation of, for want of a better word ENERGY. Now space/time is another manifestation of that same energy, so also light (the electromagnetic spectrum).
So what other creator force is outside this energy?

DeepSight:
Not sure that is the definition of the universe. Certainly not the one appropriate to this discussion. I believe the appropriate one is:

universe
/ˈjuːnɪvəːs/

noun

all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.

We are saying the same thing, except you now something else exists outside of space/matter and time.

The exact dimensions of the universe is unknowable. Why? Because any thing greater that a critical distance will be travelling away from us (expanding)faster than light. That means we cannot see or know what's beyond that point.

Aemmyjah:
See fallacy?
Na wa o
Answer my question
Since the universe has a beginning a d will continue forever, the universe cannot be the Cause of its own existence. It is caused by something eternal or someone eternal
That is the example of critical thinking
Is that the same question you ask about the person that made your phone?

See critical thinking! I avoid going into the same jejune argument with Christians I did in my undergraduate days in the university, circular arguments without any basis or logic.

If the universe has a beginning it must have an end. There is nothing like forever.

I laugh when I saw someone. Someone - a homo sapiens with two legs, an anus and a dick created the universe or universes. Let me guess, that person is a white Jewish old man with white beards that sits his associate on a throne begging for validation and worship.

Since the definition of the universe is all we know and we will ever know, what then can be external to it.

You guys talk a lot of tautology.

Aemmyjah:
Life is either a product of a Creator or by Chance... Which one is logical to you?

If life came from a Creator, it must have a purpose. If it came by chance, it is meaningless and purposeless... The people you call logical accept the latter

False premise leading to false conclusion.
If life must have a purpose because life came from a creator, then what's the purpose of the creator?
Life happening by chance does not render it meaningless and purposeless.

jaephoenix:
I have explained how morality is relative. Check my previous posts. In addition to those, your own Bible is replete in relative morality. Yahweh was busy slaughtering folks that didn't believe him in the Old Testament. Working on Sabbath, beating and killing slaves, wearing clothes made of different materials, eating pork, all led to loss of heads. Remember he killed more people than Satan. In the New Testament, he deemed all the stuff he did in the Old Testament as bad, turned a new leaf, sent himself as his son to die so as to appease himself(which is still a bloodthirsty action). Thus some of those actions became forgivable (even though there is the unforgivable sin which no christian seems to know about )
That is relative morality

God killed far more people than Satan.
In the book of Job documents Satan killed ten people: Job’s three daughters and seven sons, who he kills only with God’s direct explicit permission (Job 1:12–19).
Meanwhile God killed millions and is poised to kill billions more in his end time.

chidiokay:
Anyone can be a thief, we have seen pastors that were arrested among arm robbers.

Yahoo boyz are thieves just like our politicians buh you rather celebrate people who put us in penury and despise Yahoo boiz who are also a victim of the failed system we all are in, what is bad is bad yahoo is a crime But my focus are those thieves that steal Nigeria youth tomorrows.

An adage in Yoruba says " everybody be thief naa person wey dem catch for dawn be barawo. call me whatever you like its immaterial

Don't mind them, they can defend rubbish. Maybe the guy is a government official or his close family member is a official of EFCC.

You will think EFCC was set up only to go after yahoo boys. Politicians are stealing billions, subsidy thieves were stealing trillions, but EFCC are raiding peoples houses commando style to look for romance scammers. Imagine the type of romance scammers that we watch in catfish.

Hohaiiiode:
and you suddenly believe them because they are very truthful in accusing people. There is 60percent chances that there are just wrongfully accusing this guys

It's not even about wrongfully or rightfully accusing anyone. It's about respect of the rights and dignity of citizens. There are more legal and dignifying way of catching Internet fraudsters. First and foremost its not a violent crime, so all theses SWAT type arrests are unnecessary. If laws are in place for citizens to show their source of income and tax receipts, most criminals would be caught. But then the ruling elites who are the biggest criminals will never enact such a law, that's because all political office holders and their cronies who become billionaires and trillionaires without any visible business or pay taxes would all be caught.
Nigeria is not the only country with Internet fraudsters, but Nigeria is the only country that arrests boys, search their phones and laptops fishing for evidence, before establishing that they are fraudsters.

stuffs2002:
Stop advertising your ignorance on social media.

Arrests can be made at any time of the day. Show me which country will law enforcements agents need to write a formal letter telling criminals the time of day they would be arrested.

The reason most law enforcements agents make arewsts at night is because most of these fradstars are very very funny and move discreetly to evade arrest.

In those countries you talk about, Skales would be arrested along with his mentees as an accomplice and charged to court because harbouring criminals is a crime anywhere in the world.

No one is arguing that arrests can't be made at anytime of the day. What I am saying is that law enforcement agencies can't break into your homes and offices without a search warrant. They can't invade your privacy fishing for a crime. Before now EFCC and police break into hotels and bars arresting young boys and then looking through their phones fishing for crimes. This is illegal in all sane countries. Now they are breaking into people's homes fishing for crimes. If you don't see this as demeaning and an abuse of citizens rights and dignity, then you are part of the problem.

stuffs2002:

Most of them used music as cover up while their main source of income is fraud


Skales came online crying upandan that EFCC came to his house. Yet it was him that was housing fradstars in his house. Those same fraudsters even claimed Skales was their mentor.

It's seems Nigerians have been so traumatised that we can differentiate between abuse and rights anymore. In a country where human rights and dignity are respected, law enforcement agencies don't break into your house at midnight without a search warrant. They don't break down your gates and doors asking you to open your laptops and phones fishing for crimes. They certainly don't arrest you and lock you up indefinitely while fishing for evidence.

The national assembly need to make laws regulating the conduct of law enforcement agencies. Any evidence obtained illegally or under duress should not be admissible in court. With the present laws governing the evidence act, which admits any evidence no matter how it was obtained, law enforcement agencies they don't need to follow law in obtaining evidence.

Yusman316:
Actually it made sense. Since CSU said 3rd party licensed vendors are allowed to give out certs and Tinubu got his from a 3rd party vendor (since the original is still at CSU), why not track the vendor, have them testify under oath if they issued the cert to Tinubu. That would have been better than going to CSU in the first place

How does that make sense? How will third part vendors know that you completed you course units to be eligible to be awarded a degree/diploma? How will third party vendors know your CGPA and the class of the candidates? How will third party vendors obtain the signatures of the current officials of the school to be on the certificate? Do you not know that if the forge the signatures of the registrar or President of the University, that they have commited a crime?

Deepthoughts:
You guess wrong, I'm a from the North Central n certainly not Igbo but of course I without doubt or regrets proudly support Peter obi in the last elections,after all said n done you said nothing new,you only tried to get a soft landing for yourself,you were clearly supporting the fraud of a Tinubu out of sentiments, which ever way you look at the Tinubu certificate saga,it is a disgrace to Nigeria and in fact the yorubas,the FBI files are coming,I hope the irreparable damage would not be catastrophic, it's up to the supreme Court to redeem her own n Nigeria's battered image or cindemn it the more.

I support none. Although among the three terrible candidates, I think Tinubu is the worst. Nigerias reputable will be in tatters by the time FBI release their files on Tinubu.
With that security securoty number on Tinubu's CSU file, they will be able to trace all details of the Bola A Tinubu assigned that number, from when and where he was born or entered the US, how he became a US citizen, bank accounts opened, placed lived, etc.

I know Tinubu supporters will start attacking the US with all types of diversions and excuses. They will engage in whataboutism with Trump, Biden and the corruption allegations against Hunter and Joe Biden. Their final justification will be "America no holy".

DeepSight:
He has extensive experience in fraud and forensic matters locally and internationally and I don't know how you imagine the secretary of the EFCC does not qualify as being equivalent of an ACP or beyond.

Please seek out his profile before arriving at your conclusions.

Please show me the link that confirm that Olanipekun Olukoyede had fraud and forensic experience before becoming a secretary to EFCC.

This is from his profile from the opening post;

Subsequently, the Nigerian Senate confirmed his appointment in November 2018, to replace Emmanuel Aremo, whose five-year tenure ended in July of 2018.

But, Mr Olukoyede’s confirmation as EFCC scribe came with controversy, as a senator, Isa Misau accused the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Anti-Corruption and Financial Crimes, Chukwuka Utazi, of sidelining some members of the senators in preparing the committee’s report which cleared Mr Olukoyede for the job.

He had worked as a lawyer at the law firm of former Vice President Yemi Osinbajo before he clinched the EFCC job.

He was appointed EFCC secretary in 2018 ( 5 years ago). Before that he was a lawyer in the law firm of the former Vice President.

Deepthoughts:
since when did the igbos claim to be the most educated tribe in Nigeria if the yorubas?,the minimum requirement for contesting for the office of president in Nigeria is secondary School certificate so what wrong did obi commit?,if there's any shame at all it should go to those who made the law requiring such low standard requirement n to Tinubu who dare not submit his miraculous fraudulent GCE result which he obtained I advance of his school establishment.

I am surprised by you submissions given your username. Let me guess, Obi is your tribesmen. If you do some deep thinking you will realize I have not accused Obi of any crime, what I am complaining is the quality of our leaders. The quality of our leaders has been degrading and degenerating since the days of Awo, Zik and Tafawa Balewa. As the saying goes a people gers the leaders they deserve. Its a tragedy that the leaders we elect and defend today are people like Tinubu, Wike, Uzodinma, Shetima. It seems that with each election cycle we elect a group of leaders worse than the previous one. And you wonder why we are on a fast descent to hell.

Even if the minimum requirement for the office of the president is school certificate (in reality that no even correct, because a president does not even require a school certificate), Peter Obi should have presented his university degree, even if he obtained a pass. It does not make sense to apply for a job with your minimum certificate.