₦airaland Forum

obinnanelson4:
If they have been engaging in crude swap for refined pms, why then is subsidy in the picture all these while. Or is it that i do not understand what swap means?

Abeg Helep me ask dem. NNPC is saying they are swapping crude for petrol with foreign refineries and at the same time saying they are paying N3 trillion subsidies on the same petrol. How that makes sense to anyone beats me.

Lifestone:
I will be disappointed if BAT reverses himself, when he's not GEJ

This country belongs to all of us and not BAT alone. BAT is not an Emperor. If Nigerians say no to subsidy removal, then no it shall be.

YouandiAllofus:
I hope they reach an agreement that will enable the gov work out modalities to cushion the immediate hardship effect as well as a sustainable plan on the continuous improvement of the petroleum industry.

Forget the modalities to cushion hardship for now. We need transparency in the oil sector. What happened to the crude for petrol swap deal with refineries in Europe? What happed to the 300,000 crude that is specifically allocated for local consumption? Where is NNPC audited account for the last 20 years?

Healthquest:
wages increment won't solve ds actually.

A cheaper transportation means and alternative to petrol will be the one to help out

Don't mind them, we have been removing subsidy since the 80s and each time inflation will rise, naira will fall and we will start discussing subsidy once again.

Abeg helep me ask Subsidy removal proponents how Abacha was able to do it despite all the corruption allegedly uncovered in his administration. Abacha increased petrol prices from N11 to N14 and gave the extra N3 to Buhari's PTF for infrastructure like roads, university buildings, etc. Till today we could see those infrastructure.please remember Abacha did not even borrow $1 from anyone despite crude prices never going beyong $16 per barrel, at a time it fell as low a $8.
Abacha must have been a miracle worker.

nairalanda1:
Erm but the people that extract thw crude are free to sell it at international prices not at goverment set prices.

Plus crude oil wells belong to the owners once they paid the price.

Has nothing to do.with subsidy.

I'm ending our discussion here. Subsidy ain't suatainable. You don't want to accept it. I can't force you to.

Good evening

I know you don't understand. You are probably a member of the big three tribes (well two) that enjoy the present Nigerian arrangement, where crude oil is situated in the Niger delta but enjoyed mainly by the north and south west.
Let me break it down for you. Over 90% of Nigeria's revenue (meaning money used to run the government is obtained from sale of crude). Now over 70% of this crude is gotten from the Niger Delta. These are Nigerdeltan whose land is seized by the Nigerian state and then sold to multinational foreign companies and their Nigerian cronies. The people who owned the land lose all rights to the lands. The government just settle a few chiefs, elders and youths and the do as they like. That's the same model the colonial powers used to exploit and subjugate natives. Now that's a digression that's a whole chapter on its own.

Now back to subsidy. What we the Nigerdeltans are saying is that we have crude under our feet. We agree that we submit that crude to the Nigerian state for the common good. But what do we get in return, outside pollution, civil strife and neglect? Ordinary to buy petrol gotten from crude from our lands, you are telling us to buy at international price. Boys bust pipeline or oil wells and start selling the crude themselves, you arrest them and brand them thieves. Meanwhile the political elites are stealing the oil in supertankers.

Now let me brake it down further. The cost of refining Nigeria's crude is about $30 per barrel after removing all production costs. So even if price of crude internationally is $100, the remaining is still profit. Why should I an itsekiri man or an ijaw man be buying petrol produced with crude at $100 per barrel? Is it the government subsidizing me or me subsidizing the government at a crude price above $30 per barrel.

If you say subsidy is not sustainable, how then was Obasanjo able to sustain subsidy and at the same time pay up all our debt, hosted two huge international events and still left over $40 billion in our external reserves for Yaradua?

Once again, we are subsidizing corruption and not fuel.

nairalanda1:
Goverment has not seized any forms of production.

NNPC is now private plus people are allowed to sell fuel at market price.

Subsidy was not working anymore

Time to.face the.cold hard truth.

I am not talking about fuel. I am referring to the crude itself. Government control all lands that crude oil is found in. That's against the tenets of true capitalism.

nairalanda1:
The government has just let the sale of petrol operate under the prinicples of the free market, and you are claiming they seized property?

Oga, if you like, let them keep the subsidy. Run for office and get them to keep the subsidy. But I don't understand a policy where we buy petrol above N300 and sell it below N200.

If you like, call me an oppressor, call me a Tinubu supporter. You already are calling me one. But as for me, we can't sustain the subsidy.

And yes, it makes me sad....but it would be worse if the subsidy monster overwhelms the revenue we have.

Good afternoon. Finis.

Free market where government still seize factors of production? which is any land that oil is found in. If the government want to practice free market economy as is done in the US, they should let the owners of the lands crude and gas is discovered in to control their lands or at least let the states control their resources, whether crude, gold, diamond, cocoa, tomatoes, etc.

nairalanda1:
And the refineries have not been working because for decades we have been selling petrol, and until 2013, kerosene, diesel and company below the production price.

Keyword - Production price!!! What is the production price of Kerosene, diesel and petrol in Nigeria? There has to be production first before we start talking about Production price. Why is it that the government used our money to build 4 refineries and then later decided that government is not in the business of doing business and then refused to operate those refineries?
Why are we the ones to pay for government's corruption and incompetence?

Which is why subsidy was removed in time for Dangote's refinery to be opened, it was because if it was not removed, Dangote won't make a profit, and his refinery would break down...because it can't make enough proft.

Mute excuse. First the issue is not with the petroleum products themself but the price at which the crude oil is being sold to dangote or other refineries. Please note that 300,000 barrels per day for is allocated for local consumption and presently we produce just above 1.2 million barrels per day. At our highest we were producing 2.4 million barrel. So what happened to our allocations for local consumption?

We are not supposed to be buying diesel kerosene and petrol from foreign refineries. We were told we had a crude to petroleum products swap with foreign refineries, what happened? why do we still pay for the petroleum products?

As per Dangote, we would have preferred government enter the same crude swap agreement with Dangote. Government could give his refinery our allocated 300,000 barrels per day crude and get kerosene, diesel and crude in return. It will eliminate the long chain of corruption taking it abroad to refine.

Then there is the harsh fact that we do not control oil prices. Nigeria is a member of OPEC. Right now, OPEC is meeting with the sole aim of cutting oil production to raise prices. If we go against OPEC and raise production....we would end up pushing the oil price down. For nothing. And where does that leave our revenue.? We can start selling all the oil reserves we have now, and oil prices would fall

Opec control crude prices, they don't control petroleum products or gas prices. Why not go the finished products route instead of lazily selling raw crude. We own the crude. We can decide to refine all our crude like the US, China, Canada and co, instead of being at the mercy of OPEC.

Remember when Saudi let oil flow run like the wild mustangs on an American prarie. Oh yes, prices fell, the US oil industry whom the action was targeted at did not blink an eye, but we poor nations suffered.

Oh yes, subsidy means that the sector is not profitable enough to earn enough cash to open more fields...then there is the stealing going on by corrupt officals and by the local people in the name of resource control..(not that I blame them, their governments don't do nothing).

At the end of the day, if we want to be a prosperous nation we have to start doing things like improving our income from tax, moving away from oil, and removing subsides. We have done the subsidy part. As to whether this APC government would do the others...well, we shall see. I am not hopeful at all.


(P.S I am not saying we should not fight corruption or stop stealing or overlook bad governance, by the way.).

We are only subsidizing corrupt political elites and their officials. I don't see why me whose father land is awash with crude willbe forced to buy petroleum products at international prices determined in Riyadh, Newyork or Brussels.

Jostoman:
labour will not go and sit down, if you are getting awoof money from government we are not, everything is about politics for your oga.

Is it the people that's getting awoof money from government or the government getting awoof money from the people?

COMPAQ:
Which thieving oil cabal exactly? I think too often we like to cloud simple issues by linking then to an unseen cabal. Last I heard is that NNPC has been the only importer of petrol in the Buhari regime. The cabal of various importers was in the Jonathan/Diezani era.

Cabal is why petrol subsidy isn't working
Generator cabal is why we don't have electricity.

Meanwhile in those two sectors, the real issue is we are selling product below the cost of production. In other sectors where there is zero government intervention ND prices are set based on market dynamics like GSM, hotels, event center, diesel, airlines, clothes etc why is there no cabal there?


We buy petrol at say N450 per litre then we come and sell at N185per litre, making huge losses on purpose. Now it might actually be good if we were spending this from our actual earning, but no, we actually borrow to even do this. That's how precarious our finances are as a country.
Yes there is misappropriation of funds in this country, but also how many people pay proper taxes. I can bet you 90% of people on this forum have some hidden income they don't pay any tax on.

Because we have over 40 billion barrels of proven oil reserves and over 5 trillion cubic metres of gas reserves. If corrupt political elites allow our refineries to work and exploit our gas reserves, we could sell petrol and gas to Nigerians at any price we like. We could even start exporting petrol and other oil products instead of export crude and importing petrol.

nairalanda1:
So.govermemt should force an industry to operate at a loss?

Right.

You did not answer my question? Should government seize peoples lands and resources and then complain that it cannot use the resources to benefit the owners of the resources? If government says they want to operate capitalism, why not hand over peoples resources to them and let them sell it at whatever price that suit them, and then pay taxes on them?

patrickcollins:
Which Nigerians are ready to suffer, why are the ruling class not ready to suffer.
Since Nigeria has been declared broke, national assemblies should fit the bill of their bogus lifestyle, they should buy their own vehicle from their salary, buy their furnitures too, the president and ministers should do same. What about the security votes they collect for doing nothing.

Don't mind them. Ask him if the political elites are ready to suffer now to enjoy later? Are they ready to sacrifice their furniture allowance, newspaper allowance, constituency projects, wardrobe allowance, petrol allowance, etc? Is it only the already impoverished masses that is required to sacrifice? The political class is lucky that we are a very docile people, this kind of thing would lead to a revolution anywhere else in the world.

nairalanda1:
So you think that governemt should force businesses to operate at a loss to help the poor.

It was tried before in what used to be communist countries. They all collapsed as a result or went free market

Marketers have to sell at a profit because millions of Nigerians who help.bring you the petrol have to make a decent living. Not just the cabals.

It seems you want to deny them that right, Comrade Leader

So government should seize peoples lands and resources in the name of capitalism and then drain the resources (crude in this case), with the attendant environmental and social destruction to the owners of the land, and then shout "government is not in the business of business" when told to account for how they use the resources or at least allow the people with the resources enjoy the benefits of their resources. Is that communism or capitalism?

omenka:
Tripping over is no big deal for someone his age.

E shock me as they are making a mountain out of a molehill. He stumbled on something on the floor and then got up and walked away (with help of course).

Sijo01:
Where are EFCC/ICPC when you need them

They are too busy running after Yahoo boys.

omohayek:
1. If you think Europe's Common Agricultural Policy actually decreased food costs for consumers, you have completely misunderstood how it worked and what it's effects were. It was a price support mechanism, intended to benefit farmers by putting a price floor on their products. What that translated into was higher food costs for the vast majority of Europeans who aren't farmers and have never even been to a farm. The CAP has always been a gigantic rent-seeking arrangement for a small group of highly cosseted farmers at the expense of the rest of the population, even the very poorest. Why would anyone of right mind wish to copy a scheme that even the EU's members have long recognized to be utterly harmful?

Is what you wrote up there not a paradox? Europe Agricultural Policy is a price support mechanism (subsidy) to benefit farmers but rather than reduce price of their farm products to the consumers, it increases it. How does that even make sense. Please explain.
For your information most industrialised countries if not all give agricultural subsidies to farmers to bring down the cost of food. Even some poor countries give agricultural subsidies.

You must be more intelligent than Einstein. A policy that's was debated and implemented by 27 European countries is the one almighty omohayek says is harmful. If EU members recognised that agricultural subsidies are harmful, why have they not abolished it.

2. You talk as if every group of citizens has a "right" to be "entitled" to some product or other, but that isn't how economies work anywhere. All goods and services have their costs of production, and there are no free lunches in economics: if something is "free" to consumers in some way, someone else must be paying for it. Europe's economies are productive enough to tolerate even wasteful and anti-consumer schemes that tax the general populace to pay off small groups of rent-seekers like the farming lobby.

As I have noted, you must be the Einstein of Economic to counter economic professors worldwide who advice their government to give their citizens one subsidy or the other to make their lives more meaningful. Me, I might not be an economic genius like you, but I was taught in elementary economics that the fundamental goal of economics is to get the greatest amount of satisfaction from available resources.[/quote]

Nigeria, on the other hand, is an extremely low-productivity economy where most people are so poor they aren't even worth taxing,

False. Yes Nigerians are extremely poor, but the poorest in Nigeria pay the highest amount of taxes, particularly indirect taxes that does not enter the coffers of government. We pay all kinds of taxes both hidden and open on all services and goods we consume. Ordinary Okada riders pay up to 30% of their daily income on all kinds of levies, approved by the state governments.

Most of our billionaires and billionaires don't pay taxes, the ones that do pay token taxes for official purposes. Non of them has ever shown their tax receipts.

while the government is so bloated and has borrowed so much that just covering its interest payments to foreign lenders already consumes the entirety of its diminished revenues from selling unrefined oil. Where, then, is the money supposed to come from to pay for whatever it is you think Nigerians are justified in feeling "entitled" to?

Why not ask what the government does with the money it borrow at huge interests. Who enjoys the benefits of the borrowed monies - the government officials or the people? Why do you feel a few government officials of less than a million is more entitled to Nigeria's wealth - borrowed or earned than the other over 200 million Nigerians. Why do you feel that it is justified to use the same borrowed money to pay huge allowances and parks to former governors, their deputies and their wives. Lagos State Government is already paying 3 former governors huge allowances and perks, a time will come when they will be paying up to 6 former governors, ditto for all other states. And you are here talking about entitlements.
Have to go now.

MasterJayJay:
The one that imports and the one that produces locally, which do you think will sell at a lower price? The competition is already flawed.

It's not necessarily about imports and locally produced, it's more about over reliance on petrol to carry out our basic duties. You can live and work for up to a decade in the UK without setting your eyes on petrol. Here even a newborn knows the smell of petrol.

omohayek:
More illiterate gibberish. No evidence, no reasoning, nothing but empty bluster from a badly-educated halfwit who thinks others can be commanded to supply goods and services at unprofitable rates simply because that's what his outsized sense of entitlement demands. If you had an IQ above 70 you'd count yourself lucky.

It's not outsized sense of entitlement, it the benefits of submitting our sovereignty to the Nigerian government. Europeans have an outsized sense of entitlement for cheap food. Without agricultural subsidies, the price of food in Europe will be much higher than it is now. So what are we then entitled to as Nigerian citizens? Subsidised food, transportation or energy (no even all energy, just petrol)? Please remember we have an unlimited amount of gas (energy) wasting away or untapped.

After the subsidy is gone, the poorest of us can be helped using a Rapid Response strategy. We can identify those who are struggling the most with subsidy removal & use the funds earmarked for subsidy payments in June to provide short-term assistance to them.

Later, Mr. President also needs to license at least 50 capable companies to import petrol into the country alongside the NNPC, duty-free. Their competition and duty exemption will prevent unsubsidised petrol from becoming too expensive.

Same as I explained above. A case of putting the horse before the cart. All these should have been put in place before making the announcement.

This will be a big win for Mr. President if played right.

Keyword here is played. Mr President announced the result before the game even started.

Seun:
As Rotus explained on AriseTV, Tinubu's inauguration speech was very good from a business POV. It 'Renewed my Hope' & made me start dreaming again.

Yes Tinubu's inauguration speech was very good from a business point of view but its terrible for governance. There is a world of difference between governance and business. The aim of business is to make profit, the aim of governance is to provide security - physical, social and economic security for the people.

However, PBAT's silence on the current fuel scarcity is alarming. His team should be telling him to complete subsidy removal ASAP.

That means he did not make provisions for the initial shock his announcement would make on the whole nation. He made a policy announcement without involving the various stakeholders in the system. There is even no cabinet in place to implement the policy.

Then Mr. President will be able to boast of having hit the ground running - by removing the subsidy that leaders have been trying to remove for several decades within his first days in office. The hardship we're currently facing will be the last that we will face

How? How can this be the last hardship we will face, when a 30 litres of petrol sells for N12k, when transportation cost has increased 200 -300%, when minium wage is still 30,000 officially (meanwhile some people earn 10,000 - 20,000/month)? Most importantly of all how can the hardship we're currently facing will be the last that we will face, when inflation that is already too high at 15% is about to reach 20 to 25% solely due to sudden increase is petrol prices without alternatives.

If Mr. President backtracks, then his bold proclamation on fuel subsidy removal will be seen as a costly blunder that bodes poorly for our future under him. He will be prolonging the suffering of Nigerians who are currently experiencing scarcity. They will experience it all over again when he finally removes the subsidy.

Nigerians had been rejecting subsidy because no provisions had been made to cushion the effect of the subsidy removals. No electricity, so every Nigerian citizen depends on petrol one way or the other to run their businesses. No mass transit system, so every citizen relies on petrol to get to and fro from their offices and businesses.

The president has an opportunity to get to the finish line of petrol subsidy removal before those who would oppose it can even start organising their resistance.

Believe me resistance would come. When people can no longer go to their jobs and business to earn a living, they will be left with no other choice but to resist.

All he has to do today is empower filling stations to price their petrol based on demand and supply, just like diesel. Then he should instruct the NNPC to announce that they will distribute fuel at the landing cost since the subsidy is gone. Fuel scarcity will disappear.

Shouldn't he have done all these before making the announcement? Should he have informed the independent distributors about the landing cost and the price and date it would be sold at the depot before making the announcement? Are we running a dictatorship or a monarchy? Should he not have informed all stakeholders be involved before implementing such a far reaching policy?

kazyhm:
But the man said the house is not 400,000....and I understand a house in festac is Worth more than 400k.

Besides, they still legally married and the case is about consent before disposition of the asset not sharing formula.

I have never like judgement of any female judge.........it always lace with emotional bias

We are talking about 1980s and not 2020s. In the 1980s N400k was a lot of money. A brand new Mercedes-Benz car in the 80s was about N20,000. To me N400k is even too expensive.

Ykc2:
it won't work in nigeria ,let use nnewi as an example ,nnewi is like mini urban city so if a man build a house in his father's compound at nnewi and divorce the wife will the wife now come to drag his father's compound with him?can regina Daniel's drag his husband properties with him?

You don't get it or pretent not to understand in order to justify your misogyny.
The law recognises properties acquired by contributions by both partners in a marriage contract as joint properties, not properties inherited or acquired before marriage.

Princedapace:
Surely, now u are talking!

We have to wait until when women would accept this.
For now, no one shares a dime from what they didnt contribute to.
We talk as if men dont also contrubute in raising kids
A lot of homes have house helps who do cleaning and cooking!
The woman must contribute money to any property she claims for

We don't have to wait for women to accept it, the English common law and the courts have already accepted it. If the man takes hus wife to court and can prove he has made significant contributions to the marriage, the court will rule they share the properties in accordance to their contributions.

Kobojunkie:
So, throughout the marriage, your ibo brothers acquire no properties or businesses? And you swallow that ridiculous nonsense for an excuse?

The igbo culture is so misogynistic. The treat women like property bought and sold with no rights whatsoever.

Princedapace:
i will marry, she can go and work, let me do nothing then and inherit her sweat!

If she is the one working, then you can make your own contributions by cooking, cleaning, taking care of the children, helping with their homework and serving her well in the other room. Then you will be entitled to "inherit her sweat" when you decide to go your separate ways.

jahsharon:
The female judge is MAD. This case will get to the Supreme Court. So all a woman need to do in her life is to fucck a man, then she automatically owns half of his life’s hard work.

E no go better for her Mama. Na motor go jam her

I support the judgement and I am sure the supreme court will uphold the judgement. A woman cannot be married to a man for 35 years and all her contributions to the success of the family will be termed null and void. She must have contributed financially, morally, spiritually and otherwise to the family. If the man had hired a cook, a house cleaner, a nanny and oloshos for 35 years, I am sure it would be more than the cost of the house.

Scarcity234:
You said it's not about the corruption that goes on but went ahead to ask if I know how much is being expended monthly on subsidy...

What caused the high amount that is spent monthly on subsidy?

Increase minimum wage and then an increase in fuel price is the solution ??

He should have also announced the removal and the increase in minimum wage same time.

Why the sudden announcement on the day of inauguration without proper consultation or consideration?

You can't just announce a removal of subsidy, with the knowledge of the consequence, without offering a cushioning solution to it.

This is him being insensitive or misguided by the insensitive lot.

That's what government mouth pieces we have here do not seem to understand. They will not be able to curtail the backlash such an insensitive and hastly action would bring. I am sure they are relying on army to shoot people if the people react. They will be surprised this time around, as the poor masses would have nothing else to lose but their lives. Every successive government since OBJ has tried sudden subsidy removal and had to rescind the decision when the people reacted. Tinubu is just forming voltron feeling he can take on Nigerian since he is nicknamed Jagaban. Let's wait till next week.

HacheNoire:
Minimum wage can be increased
Infrastructural development

The money can do a lot. Cos even the sis Sist we talking about is a scam. Importers keep inflating what’s not even coming into the country, and the ones that come-in, they still transport to other countries after getting subsidy on it

A lot of scam in that scheme called subsidy. It’s just too expensive.

Why did he not announce minimum wage increase and fuel subsidy removal at the same time? How are people to survive before he decides to increase minimum wage?

If the subsiby is a scam, should not the new government be more interested in catching and prosecuting the scammers? Afterall EFCC and police are pursuing Yahoo boys everyday like Jack Bauer. Are they powerless against subsidy scammers? Why punish the masses instead?

Ashawoman82:
oga, USA has the largest reservoir of oil ,they are not oil producing nation at all...it was during the time of Obama that they started storing oil,they believe they oil will soon finish in the world and when it happens, they want to be the one in control of the oil market...go and make proper research, it's not everything u see in Google that u should believe .

Please use your Google, its free. USA is the largest producer of crude oil in the world. The only issue is that the crude is for local consumption and reserves, not for export.

HacheNoire:
If done with good intentions, it’s profitable for the nation

How can it be profitable for a nation with minimum wage of N30,000? How can it be profitable for a nation where over 70% live on less than $1 per day.

It is only profitable for government workers, afterall Emir Sanusi said he did not know the price of petrol when he was CBN governor. A he knows is that his car is always fuelled.

PROPEACE:
Well, the bad news to people like you is that the funds that will accrue due to fuel subsidy removal will be stolen by another set of crooks and no effect will be cushioned! Since we said corruption should be killed but you guys think fuel subsidy removal is the answer. Brace up, inflation starts today.

I don't see how any small business would survive on N700 per litre petrol.

We all agree that petrol subsidy has to go, but to remove it as his first executive order is very cruel and insensitive. Given that he is struggling with credibility issues, and his government is not popular to begin with. The new government should have waited until Dangote Refinery comes on stream and making sure nepa gives at least 16hrs of power per day before removing subsidy. Now I hear price of petrol has jumped to N700 per litre. How are we to run business at N700 per litre, that means we will use N12,000 to run our generators everyday. By how much can we increase the cost of our goods and services?
In the space of one week, power rates increased by 30% and petrol increased by 500%, while salaries remain the same. How are businesses and citizens going to survive?